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Anky melee = more metal?

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58 minutes ago, Duffmek said:

yes more melee = more metal

not necessarily true.

Each metal node has some amount of HP attached to it and the more damage you do to it - the more resource you get per hit. So the more melee - the faster you'll harvest the node, plus if you manage to do some excess amount of damage then you'll get some overharvest resources as well.

For example: lets assume anky1 does 100 damage to 500 hp metal node - it'll harvest it fully in 5 swings. Anky2 that does 120 damage to that node will get 480hp worth of resources in 4 swings and on 5th swing it'll get another 120hp worth of resources totaling 600hp worth of resources from 500 hp node - a 20% increase. Anky3 with 250 damage will harvest that node exactly in 2 swings but wont get any extra.

Generally harvesting faster can result in more metal given you have access to many nodes and because different metal nodes have different amount of hp its better to go as high melee as you can - there is no sweet spot. There is a limit to overharvesting - it is either 3x or 5x of node's hp.

Edited by DarthaNyan
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29 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

not necessarily true.

Each metal node has some amount of HP attached to it and the more damage you do to it - the more resource you get per hit. So the more melee - the faster you'll harvest the node, plus if you manage to do some excess amount of damage then you'll get some overharvest resources as well.

For example: lets assume anky1 does 100 damage to 500 hp metal node - it'll harvest it fully in 5 swings. Anky2 that does 120 damage to that node will get 480hp worth of resources in 4 swings and on 5th swing it'll get another 120hp worth of resources totaling 600hp worth of resources from 500 hp node - a 20% increase. Anky3 with 250 damage will harvest that node exactly in 2 swings but wont get any extra.

Generally harvesting faster can result in more metal given you have access to many nodes and because different metal nodes have different amount of hp its better to go as high melee as you can - there is no sweet spot. There is a limit to overharvesting - it is either 3x or 5x of node's hp.

Is there a resource to which metal nodes have which HP and or how much of a node each breakpoint of anky melee does? Would be neat even for rough calculations. 

For eg. With imprint bonus, rider and 450 melee I notice I one hit most nodes where as 420 melee it took 2 hits. Seems a tad more metal with the 1 hit though

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39 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

not necessarily true.

Each metal node has some amount of HP attached to it and the more damage you do to it - the more resource you get per hit. So the more melee - the faster you'll harvest the node, plus if you manage to do some excess amount of damage then you'll get some overharvest resources as well.

For example: lets assume anky1 does 100 damage to 500 hp metal node - it'll harvest it fully in 5 swings. Anky2 that does 120 damage to that node will get 480hp worth of resources in 4 swings and on 5th swing it'll get another 120hp worth of resources totaling 600hp worth of resources from 500 hp node - a 20% increase. Anky3 with 250 damage will harvest that node exactly in 2 swings but wont get any extra.

Generally harvesting faster can result in more metal given you have access to many nodes and because different metal nodes have different amount of hp its better to go as high melee as you can - there is no sweet spot. There is a limit to overharvesting - it is either 3x or 5x of node's hp. 

Sorry, I dunno about those numbers, but, for example, our 1000% melee anky gets approx 400 metal from those golden nice rich rocks. But the previous one (450-500 melee) was getting only 250-300. I don't remember exact numbers for lower damage one, but sure about good one. Both tested on x2. The 1000% anky had imprint bonus, btw.

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You dont get more metal with more melee.

You just get it faster because more damage means more damage to the structure which means more metal with one hit, but less hits to destroy a metal node. F.e. two hit gets around 800 metal, but four hits get 200 metal per hit and the result is still the same. 

Keep in mind, not all nodes have the same amount of health, so you get more metal one the one node, but less on the second one.

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1 hour ago, Nethiuz said:

Basically once you 1 hit nodes you're going backwards unless you get to over 1k melee then hello...

The other way around: once you start to 1-hit nodes - every extra damage transforms into extra resources without resetting anymore up to resource harvesting cap.

The graph looks like this (x is damage you do to node in %, y is % of resources collected compared to normal):
O0fyKlY.png

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Overresourcing was nerfed a long time ago, it still exists, but not as it was back then.

Random example. 100hp = 100 metal

Melee dmg hits nodes for 50, so you have to hit twice and you'll get 100 metal. Old overresourcing, if you hit a node with the old stats something like 360 dmg, you'd get like 360 metal, now with the long long ago nerf, you'd get around 120 metal with the same stats.

Keep in mind, rng plays a factor due to stone being in the pool.

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17 minutes ago, Pellao said:

Overresourcing was nerfed a long time ago, it still exists, but not as it was back then.

it has been "clamped", aka artificially limited to 3x-5x hp of the node. That was before "great dino nerf" when 2000-2500% melee was normal to have on almost any dino. Then there were changes to resource nodes' HP as well making it harder to hit the "cap".

Edited by DarthaNyan

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Tested many times over by me, and many others, on 1x and 2x rate official servers, after a point: 

No.  There is no empirical support for melee being better for gathering past a certain point.  Do not ruin your ankys.  A 520% imprinted anky that clears nodes in one swing VS a 1300% anky gathers less than 5% more totally.  As many others have said, this bottomless resource in metal nodes does not exist.  If it did, it would be easier to see a clear result.

Just get your anky melee high enough to clear nodes in one hit, and then put points elsewhere.  I know everyone and their 1400% ankys supposedly gather 500 metal from rich nodes on 1x, but its a whole lot of hooey.  They gather 200-220, whereas a 500% anky gathers 190-210.

Nodes and resources, as someone said, have a HP value associated with them.  I have found that anywhere from 480 (with full imprinted rider) to 550 (not imprinted to you) is enough to clear nodes in one swing, and max out resource gathering.  If you think that putting an extra 45 points in melee for maybe 5 to 10 extra metal (in my cases of testing, it is less than 5) per node is worth it, knock yourself out.

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I have had this conversation with myself recently (what point do I stop doing melee?). Then I realised, I dont need any extra speed or weight as I generally dont go on a metal run solo. Its either with a tribemate taking me out on an Argy or Quetz and me sitting there swinging away. 

I totally understand that there is a point where the melee doesnt provide much more benefit but exactly what point this is, nobody really can tell you.

I think the consensus here is that possibly 550% is enough, which is fine, and any point spent after that is up to you.

Ive 3 Ankys, one for metal runs using Argy/Quetz, one for local runs (so it has speed and weight included) and one I have just bred out at 100% but hadnt decided which was I was going to go with it. 

Some poeople use a ravager on follow as it has a weight reduction so again you can mass harvest the metal, waste of weight if that is what you have put in your anky. There are many ways to do this. Interesting topic, cheers all.

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Just tested on the mid range metal nodes in the south, 530 dmg is the tipping point, now i one hit them causing a 40 -50% decrease due to 1 less hit , more noticeable on 2 times weekend. eyeballing it i would say  540ish , once i hit 568 dmg its back down to the same lvl as a 330ish dmg anky

 

Edited by MicZee
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I have a anky with 260 melee, and and a anki with 746 melee,  harvesting the metal nodes on Herbivore island, both anky one shot the metal nodes, however the 746 anky gets far more metal then the 260 anky.  To say Melee makes no difference to the amount of resources you get from the nodes, I say bollocks.  If that were true they both would return the same or rather close to the same resources, but that's not the case,  the 260 is getting around 1.5k metal from herbivore island while the 746 is getting 2k+ metal each time. there are 12 metal nodes on the herbivore island im on, have my base there, and the island pillared to keep people from building on the resources.

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On 4/8/2019 at 8:20 AM, caleb68 said:

I have a anky with 260 melee, and and a anki with 746 melee,  harvesting the metal nodes on Herbivore island, both anky one shot the metal nodes, however the 746 anky gets far more metal then the 260 anky.  To say Melee makes no difference to the amount of resources you get from the nodes, I say bollocks.  If that were true they both would return the same or rather close to the same resources, but that's not the case,  the 260 is getting around 1.5k metal from herbivore island while the 746 is getting 2k+ metal each time. there are 12 metal nodes on the herbivore island im on, have my base there, and the island pillared to keep people from building on the resources.

not to reply so late but retested it on the island, south nodes, comparing my 530 anky and 560 anky , the 560 gets noticbly less metal per node as compared to the 530 one. each node has a HP associated with it. I suppose you could say your 1000 dmg gets 10 to 20 % more per hit but thats all you get but my 530 anky gets to hit 2 times yielding twice as much per node. Try it 

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9 minutes ago, GrumpyBear said:

WHen a 150 rex comes up to take a bite of your anky, that 1000% melee anky wil chew it up in a couple swings.  You won't be complaining about too much melee then.

Everyone always says this or some variation of this!  Its funny.

Numbers don't lie though.  A 150 Rex might have, at the higher end of wild dinos, 250 melee damage.  62 base damage times 2.5 (250% melee) is 155 damage before any reduction.  If you are getting metal, the Anky is saddled.  It might even be imprinted, but saddled alone is enough.  Attacks vary in terms of armor penetration, but if we take a 25% reduction in damage with a 25 armor primitive saddle (Wiki lists ~50% at 25 armor), the 150 Rex with a fairly crazy wild stat is biting you for ~117 damage (I said wild stat, please don't brag about BertNoobian's Rexes you have that are born with 800% melee).  If you are near the community-theorized cap of ~550 melee on an unimprinted Anky, it is safe to assume that your Anky is of decent level and will have anywhere from 5000-7000 HP.  At 550 melee, your Anky's tail is doing 275 damage to the wild Rex.  That same Rex will probably have about as much HP as you, maybe a bit more (we've all KO'ed plenty of 135-150 wild Rexes that are sporting 4-5K HP, which is always fun).  If you are rider-imprinted, it is even more of a wash for the Rex, even with that high wild melee stat.

My question is, why would you worry with even 550 melee?  With a saddle and average stats, that Anky is too tough for a wild Rex to kill.  The wild Rex stands little chance of beating the Anky up.  You do not need 1000 melee damage on an Anky to successfully defend yourself against anything short of a Giga or Wyvern, which you are an absolute fool to fight either of those on an Anky.  If you are tribe-farming or multi-box farming, you don't need high melee either because you can just..........................  Fly off.  Or Crab-away.  Get to about 500-550, and then put points elsewhere.  Or, put em in melee if you want to hit really really hard.  But don't do too many mental gymnastics convincing yourself that a 1000% melee Anky gathers 50%, or 40%, or even 20% or 10% more metal than a 550% Anky.  It is testable, which I and many others have done.

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4 hours ago, TheDonn said:

My question is, why would you worry with even 550 melee?  With a saddle and average stats, that Anky is too tough for a wild Rex to kill.  The wild Rex stands little chance of beating the Anky up.  You do not need 1000 melee damage on an Anky to successfully defend yourself against anything short of a Giga or Wyvern

WHen I'm solo farming, spending the least amount of time wasted is a + for me.  So, simply wiping any obstacle asap is important for me.  Time is element.

 

But seriously, I can't have people thinking 1000+ melee is bad.  That will cut into my 563melee anky egg sales.  How am I supposed to afford mutating them continuously until they become the island dragon killer ankys they want to be? 1000+ melee ankys for the win.

Edited by GrumpyBear

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