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So, all bugs still here?


ShinDude
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After a whole lot of early hours played I had a weak moment thinking all bugs been ironed out.. Guess I was wrong unfortunately.

Started a new solo game on Fjordur and initially it went well. The base was up and I decided to trap a 140 Rex. The trap was built with its back wall being the same as my base outside wall. Got it in the trap with no problem.

Then it happily went straight through the wall to attack and eat my tames. Bad choice of mine to think bugs been fixed.

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18 hours ago, ShinDude said:

After a whole lot of early hours played I had a weak moment thinking all bugs been ironed out.. Guess I was wrong unfortunately.

Started a new solo game on Fjordur and initially it went well. The base was up and I decided to trap a 140 Rex. The trap was built with its back wall being the same as my base outside wall. Got it in the trap with no problem.

Then it happily went straight through the wall to attack and eat my tames. Bad choice of mine to think bugs been fixed.

Gotta agree - all (OK not all - but a LOT of) the bugs or "anomalies" are still there ........

I have seen dinos quite happily walking by the tip toe end of their claw along the join of a door frame with a wall above .... And if they can get that high up - then the walls over that end up too small. And the rubbish with "rendering" this bit first, and that bit next is REALLY frustrating.

I have for a long time made a practice of including a taming pen somewhere in my base. Yeah there are "aggro" issues with dinos in the base, but those are manageable, however the Houdini escape of "trapped" wilds is still an issue!

On a similar but divergent rant - I wonder (have no tried for a long bit) if the mechanics of a raft or motor boat with walls & dinos on it has improved? Can one still "break in" to a totally closed raft building by "glitching the movement"?

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4 hours ago, DirkInSA said:

On a similar but divergent rant - I wonder (have no tried for a long bit) if the mechanics of a raft or motor boat with walls & dinos on it has improved? Can one still "break in" to a totally closed raft building by "glitching the movement"?

I've never done that but on pve I fairly recently glitched myself out of a pair of foundations that the seam was directly on the spawn point when I transferred to the server. I was stuck for long enough that I very nearly succumbed to the elements, but with combinations of running jumping punching and logging in and out and passing out from the stam drain and all of anything I could think of, I eventually ran right out of the foundations. If you can do that lol, collisions are still definitely not 100% solid.

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33 minutes ago, ShinDude said:

So... You still here to defend this piece of bug ridden game. I would say bad choice to play someting this full of bugs.

Buddy, in some cases, bugs are ARK, so deal with it :P. Yeah, it's not getting any better. ARK's a big game, and you've gotta have some empathy for the devs. Making a game is incredibly difficult. Also, taming pen attached to your base? Not a good idea. You probably just want to build the trap near the creature and lure it in there, instead of going to the trouble of luring it into the base trap. Also, as for rendering, I guess it's just the way stuff works. Dinos load in before structures, and they get out. Not sure why exactly, but it is what it is.

Anyway, good luck, and happy ARKing! 

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On 10/7/2022 at 6:23 PM, DeHammer said:

The trick with any game is to learn it's idiosnycracies and work within or around them. Many people get it, and they enjoy the game despite it's flaws. Not unlike what we have to do in many areas of life in general. Others will simply be griping about eveything that isn't perfect for the rest of their existence.

That's a little bit  true, but significantly misses the point. If you paid for a movie that crashed 10 times before you could watch the whole thing you wouldn't be ok with that. If you went to a theme park and got stuck in the middle of every ride for 30 minutes you'd be pretty critical of your theme park experience. If you frequently ran into a situation where you couldn't connect to Netflix or Amazon for hours at a time you'd be distinctly unhappy about it. You wouldn't be making excuses for any of those failures by dismissing them as "idiosyncrasies".

Bugs are part of all software, not just games, all software, but some companies are better then others at focusing on fixing bugs and WC has a history of being bad about it. The ideas behind ARK are amazing, and many of us choose to find a way to enjoy the game in spite of the many bugs, but that in no way argues that their failures are less than failures. Learning a game's idiosyncrasies is not a blanket excuse for doing a bad job of making a game work properly. It's perfectly reasonable to like a game because it's a beautiful idea and at the same time be unsatisfied with how bad of a job the game company does with making that game work well, those two things are not mutually exclusive.

All games have idiosyncrasies, ARK has idiosyncrasies and also has a long term history of failing to put enough focus on caring about and fixing bugs. Even the people who created ARK didn't know how good their idea was going to be, they accidentally created a printing press that has printed billions of dollars, far more than most games can ever dream of. They were crazy-successful in spite of their failures and as a result they never felt any incentive to fix those failures because they kept on failing their way to the bank month-after-month.

Doing a poor job cannot be justified explained as "idiosyncrasies", these are two different things.

Edited by Pipinghot
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On 10/6/2022 at 3:27 PM, ShinDude said:

After a whole lot of early hours played I had a weak moment thinking all bugs been ironed out.. Guess I was wrong unfortunately.

Started a new solo game on Fjordur and initially it went well. The base was up and I decided to trap a 140 Rex. The trap was built with its back wall being the same as my base outside wall. Got it in the trap with no problem.

Then it happily went straight through the wall to attack and eat my tames. Bad choice of mine to think bugs been fixed.

In spite of the fact that I agree with you about WC being a pretty bad company (and to be clear, this is not the Dev's or GM's fault, it's the fault of the business jocks who understaff their technical teams), it also seems like you didn't do this quite right. Even though ARK has a history of some pretty painful bugs, you still didn't make the best decision with your taming pen.

One of the basic behaviors of how ARK works is that dinos render in before buildings which means there is always a chance of a dino glitching out of a building when it's being rendered in. If the dino is moving when it renders it it will leave the building before the building has a chance to render in. I'll never understand why the ARK team chose to render in dinos before buildings, but the fact remains that this behavior is built in to the very, very early code of ARK and I doubt they could reverse that decision without basically rewriting the core code from scratch. If you've ever done any programming you'll know that there are some things you just can't change later unless you scrap the whole thing and re-write it from scratch, and I strongly suspect this is true for the render order. You can call that a bug if you want to, or maybe one of ARK's "original sins" because of a bad design decision, but you need to understand that it's never going to change.

No matter how much you like or dislike ARK it's never a good idea to build a taming pen where it can cause problems for you if something goes wrong.

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On 10/6/2022 at 9:27 PM, ShinDude said:
On 10/7/2022 at 12:22 AM, DeHammer said:

Were you close by in rendering range the whole time? Or did you travel off on a mount and come back into render while the Rex was in the trap? 

ShinDude.. did you stay within the rendering range? Or did the rex walk through the wall while you were there watching?

Were your animals attached to that wall?

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On 10/8/2022 at 6:39 PM, Pipinghot said:

One of the basic behaviors of how ARK works is that dinos render in before buildings which means there is always a chance of a dino glitching out of a building when it's being rendered in. If the dino is moving when it renders it it will leave the building before the building has a chance to render in. I'll never understand why the ARK team chose to render in dinos before buildings, but the fact remains that this behavior is built in to the very, very early code of ARK and I doubt they could reverse that decision without basically rewriting the core code from scratch. If you've ever done any programming you'll know that there are some things you just can't change later unless you scrap the whole thing and re-write it from scratch, and I strongly suspect this is true for the render order. You can call that a bug if you want to, or maybe one of ARK's "original sins" because of a bad design decision, but you need to understand that it's never going to change.

No matter how much you like or dislike ARK it's never a good idea to build a taming pen where it can cause problems for you if something goes wrong.

Exactly. It's not like anyone has to be a victim of the rendering issue either. It's really a choice to keep walking into the same wall, or walk around it. Smart people figure out how something works and they play around it, instead of wasting their time wishing it were different. 

Edited by DeHammer
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On 10/8/2022 at 6:31 PM, Pipinghot said:

That's a little bit  true, but significantly misses the point. If you paid for a movie that crashed 10 times before you could watch the whole thing you wouldn't be ok with that. If you went to a theme park and got stuck in the middle of every ride for 30 minutes you'd be pretty critical of your theme park experience. If you frequently ran into a situation where you couldn't connect to Netflix or Amazon for hours at a time you'd be distinctly unhappy about it. You wouldn't be making excuses for any of those failures by dismissing them as "idiosyncrasies".

 

No, it's  LOT true. THE POINT is that other people play the game just fine as is. As has been mentioned, something like the rendering issue isn't even a bug. It's a poor design choice that likely can't be undone without rewriting a lot of the game code. 

Edited by DeHammer
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On 10/11/2022 at 4:10 PM, DeHammer said:

No, it's  LOT true. THE POINT is that other people play the game just fine as is. As has been mentioned, something like the rendering issue isn't even a bug. It's a poor design choice that likely can't be undone without rewriting a lot of the game code. 

Yes, that was your point, and it was clear to everyone, but the counter-argument that you're attempting to ignore is that your point isn't the only one, it was your point not "THE" point. Your argument about idiosnycracies in not a valid excuse for managing a game poorly.

I disagree with your assertion that other people play the game "just fine" as it is, what they actually do is play the game in spite of it's failures. Just as one example from personal experience, I run a private server for a myself and a bunch of real-life friends, if we didn't have the option to play ARK on a server where we have complete admin control that lets us overcome the copious failings of ARK we would have ditched this game long ago. Playing ARK on the Official servers is a nightmare of lag, glitches and terrible customer support, definitely not "fine as it is". Sure, some people choose to do it, but the simple fact that more than 70% of the player base is playing Unofficial and private servers (and that doesn't even include the number of people who play solo or non-dedicated host) provides a strong argument that people play the game in spite of its failings and not because it's fine.

It may well be fine for you (which is your right, you should enjoy whatever you enjoy) but that doesn't mean it's fine for other people and it doesn't invalidate their right to complain about ARK's failings.

Edited by Pipinghot
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On 10/12/2022 at 8:36 AM, Pipinghot said:

Your argument about idiosnycracies in not a valid excuse for managing a game poorly.

 

I NEVER STATED THAT IT WAS AN EXCUSE FOR MANAGING A GAME POORLY.  There's a huge difference between me pointing out how other players reasonably manage the issues, and excusing the issues. You don't seem to get that. 

Was that a bit clearer for you? Do I need to elaborate further? 

Edited by DeHammer
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That isn't a bug, it's just the way the game works - every single game you have to figure out how it works, not just how u assume it works.

Most things ppl (well, new players) call bugs I don't even notice anymore, you learn to work around them, it's just part of the game.

Learn THIS game or move on and find one that works exactly how you assume it will work, it's the only sane thing to do.

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21 hours ago, DeHammer said:

I NEVER STATED THAT IT WAS AN EXCUSE FOR MANAGING A GAME POORLY.

"Many people get it, and they enjoy the game despite it's flaws. "

"Others will simply be griping about eveything that isn't perfect for the rest of their existence."

"THE POINT is that other people play the game just fine as is."

You didn't say it in precisely those words, but that's the implication of your arguments. You chide people for complaining, you call the game "just fine as it is", and you use the apologist's excuse that the only issue is players who don't adjust to the game's "idiosyncracies".

21 hours ago, DeHammer said:

There's a huge difference between me pointing out how other players reasonably manage the issues, and excusing the issues. You don't seem to get that.

And again... I understand it just fine, but that's not what you were doing.

The game is not "just fine" for everyone, maybe for you but not for others, and for them to complain about the game not being just fine is perfectly reasonable for them to do. Your attempts to dismiss that as merely 'griping... for the rest of their existence' means that you're the one who doesn't "get that".

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I must admit, ARK does have lots of bugs (meganeura are the least of them). @Pipinghot has a good point. WC has not managed the game very well, in all truthfulness. But with the lack of good management, I feel like sort of working around the bugs is our best option. I suppose it adds another layer of difficulty, in a way.

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