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Unbalanced Play - New Players Not Welcome


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If PVP isn't your thing, play PVE or rent a server for you and your friends to play on. There is really no other realistic alternative.

Yes but you see, 73% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Competition on a PVE server ?

4 hours ago, hopdevil said:

Thanks for all the kind responses.   I guess if you're on the inside looking out you don't think there is an issue.   But if you're a noob who wants to play something other than PVE then I guess it's just "tough luck."

I'll leave a review warning other players of this since I cannot get my money back.   Maybe if the servers ever wipe I'll be open to playing it again.  It's too bad.   This game was fun for a while and I was hopeful I could put a ton more hours and eventually enjoy the DLC.   Obviously, the devs and the community do not want new players.  I'll try PVE maybe, but that kinda gets rid of the tribal diplomacy that was advertised in the game when I bought it.

I don't really understand why this status-quo is acceptable for so many.  It's possible to figure out a way to tweak things so new players are welcomed and the alpha tribes can still go around compensating for their lack of sex life by trolling new players.  Things like using earned XP to pay for server jumps based on a percentage so it effects higher level players more.   Or a meta-stash for each player so they can hide a small amount of items that they can access at drop points and cannot be raided by other players.   These things don't seem unreasonable and would not have a dramatic effect on gameplay.  Alphas could still wreck people's bases and kill their tames but there would be a cost associated with it.   New players could still play the role of victims but not lose EVERYTHING.   This would make the game tolerable for new players in PVP without taking the "fun" out of it for the alpha tribe players.  I just don't see the fun in the current paradigm.   Even trolling new players must get tedious after a while.

 Just play on an ORP pvp server. At least if someone wants you wiped you have a chance to fight back and you can sleep at night knowing you will have some progress to come back to. On regular official pvp you really have no choice but to join a sweaty boi zerg to actually ever make real progress.

 My short runs on official pvp i never made a base, just hidden stashes and crafting stations. The only way not to get wiped solo is to have really nothing to wipe, other than a few random stations you need to be a ghost.

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4 minutes ago, ishootpaint said:

 Just play on an ORP pvp server. At least if someone wants you wiped you have a chance to fight back and you can sleep at night knowing you will have some progress to come back to. On regular official pvp you really have no choice but to join a sweaty boi zerg to actually ever make real progress.

 My short runs on official pvp i never made a base, just hidden stashes and crafting stations. The only way not to get wiped solo is to have really nothing to wipe, other than a few random stations you need to be a ghost.

Offline raid protection is heavily exploited because again wildcard dont listen to the community all they simply need to do is turn off pin codes and it would be ok.

Tribes can hide behind another tribes gates and be untouchable so I would advise to stay the hell away from there.

Edited by DoughBoy93
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1 minute ago, DoughBoy93 said:

Offline raid protection is heavily exploited because again wildcard dont listen to the community all they simply need to do is turn off pin codes and it would be ok.

Tribes can hide behind another tribes gates and be untouchable so I would advise to stay the hell away from there.

 It most certainly has its issues but if the OP doesn't want to be wiped nightly that or an unofficial with ORP are his 2 pvp choices.

 It just boils down to if he is ok with knowing some targets he will not be able to attack(being solo on regular he would still be in the same boat without orp) but he still gets to pvp.

 Most the big tribes use the wall exploit but he would still be at their mercy without it. Just giving him the best possible outcome for official pvp unless he wants to live like a ghost. I love that play style but most players are not OK with being that limited in dino/base options.

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Your be stuck in this position for a while each path you take your realise a negative to playing it lol 

For me and a lot of people solo/duo servers would be amazing dont understand why they wont trial it and release a handful of servers for them. Even seen them in there live reveal mention about the possibility of it coming but now all requests just get ignored unfortunately :/

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6 hours ago, Aylana314159 said:

The Arkpocalypse official servers are exactly what you are looking for. They wipe monthly. Learn to play there is official PvP with everyone being equal is your goal. But that equality is an illusion.

I've considered trying out those.  I like PvP, the increased threat that players present really can spice up gameplay and get the adrenaline flowing, but my longest unraided run on SmallTribes was about 2 weeks, actually got a good amount of kit and even defended myself once.  But in the grand old tradition, I then logged into a red tribelog and respawn screen.  On regular old official, I got by for a bit less time at my longest stretch, but while 1x PvE is bearable, I didn't have the heart to stay on 1x PvP for long enough to learn good ways to not get raided.  It happens just as frequently there, and is much more of a setback.  I dunno though.

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1 hour ago, TheDonn said:

I've considered trying out those.  I like PvP, the increased threat that players present really can spice up gameplay and get the adrenaline flowing, but my longest unraided run on SmallTribes was about 2 weeks, actually got a good amount of kit and even defended myself once.  But in the grand old tradition, I then logged into a red tribelog and respawn screen.  On regular old official, I got by for a bit less time at my longest stretch, but while 1x PvE is bearable, I didn't have the heart to stay on 1x PvP for long enough to learn good ways to not get raided.  It happens just as frequently there, and is much more of a setback.  I dunno though.

I tried Arkpocalypse and had fun there. My only grudge is the chinesse tribe there that consistently finds new ways to exploit obelisks to store characters (thus tekgram), items and tames. Sorry, but getting tek turrets up 6 hours after a wipe is just not possible.

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On 4/6/2020 at 3:13 PM, Demerus said:

If PVP isn't your thing, play PVE or rent a server for you and your friends to play on. There is really no other realistic alternative.

That's a bit of a knee jerk reaction in a PvP environment. Any player who explicitly logs on to wipe the server pop when they aren't around isn't playing any kind of PvP, especially if they never go to that server except to wipe it, which is a new level of troll afaiac. I will never agree with any PvP player who claims to want PvP but then waits until the other player isn't there - they are playing a purely PvE game reducing the so-called enemy players to mere objects in the game much like any node - and that's not proper tactics for a game environment (it works in the real world because war is war in the real world, but games are played for fun - or at least that should be the goal - chasing players away from the game is counter-productive unless this is being done by server mods to empty a server so they can close it down/repurpose - which while their right is kinda poopty (not saying they do do this, just pointing out a possibility)). I thought this game had anti-offline raid enable on officials, or was that shelved/removed?

On 4/7/2020 at 8:16 AM, hopdevil said:

Except other games figure out ways to deal with it.   ARK is unapproachable on the official PVP servers.  One of the other posters estimated 99% of players quit because of it. 

That's a flaw in game design.   No way around it, that part of ARK is broken.


It could be easily fixed, because when you look at it it's always the same groups of people engaging in the behavior, and they either have the full knowledge and blessing of WC/Snail due to relationships of some kind (familial or other) or they are that rare streamer who's a true douche and he has a following of douches - and douches have to stay damp to avoid getting real stinky, and WC/Snail also is aware of them too, how could they not be.

Then you have the simple fact that WC/Snail had no idea how popular the game would be at launch and during it's current release schedule of DLCs (or they do know and don't care about player experience at all) so never had enough official servers running. Also, making servers cross-ARK outside of timezones is just dumb in the extreme (I should not have to explain why it's that dumb, it's very self apparent). And that too would be easily fixed by preventing region hopping.

Simple fact is the official stance is to ignore real problems that develop because it's not their job to provide a gaming environment to enjoy their product - and I don't want to hear anyone claim otherwise because that too is patently obvious or there would be far more official servers. And they should just do complete wipes and not roll backs to fix duping/cheating/hacksing. A wipe is a far more effective tool for punishment and fixing a server than a surgical strike - do that a few times and the cheaters learn to stop cheating or leave because they keep being reset back to square one - and I feel confident most honest players would agree with my assessment - they may not like being reset but since it happens to everyone it's fair and impartial - and since it's done to close hack holes or dupe issues, well, that alone is understandable to anyone that plays the game for competitive reasons and not just to win by cheating. I think only cheaters would try to argue the honest people would leave if that happened. As it is they are being wiped in the course of gameplay due to the massive imbalance created by not wiping prior to any new DLC launch. Start at square one anytime a new game is begun, that's how they do it everywhere else in the gaming world.

Edited by Probitas
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20 hours ago, Aylana314159 said:

Learn to play

Myself and dozens of others were doing that.  Or trying to.

People will not stick around and L2P unless the standard reward system that's in every game is functioning.   If you do not reward a player for learning the game and advancing they will stop playing.   Dozens of players on the server I was on are walking away from the game because of this.   That's just one server in one 2-3 week span.   Extrapolate that out to the total number of servers over a much longer time frame and you're likely talking about thousands of potential players.  If not tens of thousands.

You can act like some yoda-like sage who is above it all.   Or act like it's their own fault for not knowing how to play a game they just now purchased.  However you want to frame it is immaterial.   Those thousands of potential players really don't care that you understand the game better than they do.   All they see is a game that does not want new players on the PVP servers.  So they go find a game that does.

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18 minutes ago, Aylana314159 said:

Ark has no reward system.

I know.  That's why most new players who want to play PVP will end up leaving the game not long after purchase.  The reward system is broken.  Without a reward system a game is just pedantic button mashing.  No incentive for continued play means most people won't continue to play.

Obviously there are two sides to this issue based on the responses to this thread.  And as I said before, if you're inside looking out it must seem okay.   But if you're on the outside looking in it's a waste of time.  You're on the inside.   Congrats.   Enjoy your desert.  As time goes on it will get more and more desolate without new players.  Fun times.

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1 minute ago, hopdevil said:

I know.  That's why most new players who want to play PVP will end up leaving the game not long after purchase.  The reward system is broken.  Without a reward system a game is just pedantic button mashing.  No incentive for continued play means most people won't continue to play.

Obviously there are two sides to this issue based on the responses to this thread.  And as I said before, if you're inside looking out it must seem okay.   But if you're on the outside looking in it's a waste of time.  You're on the inside.   Congrats.   Enjoy your desert.  As time goes on it will get more and more desolate without new players.  Fun times.

Do you have an example of an open world sandbox survival game with a reward system like you are talking about?

 

There are no level barriers, anyone can attack anyone. There are no gentlemen rules on official servers, not killing newbies. 

It's actually a good warfare strategy to not allow your enemies or competitors for resources to grow. 

 

Official servers aren't designed for everyone. If official servers aren't fun for you, then try other choices. Since official servers are open to everyone, then you get players who believe killing newbies and foundation wiping then is worth their time. 

 

Ark is a survival game, there are no balancing mechanics between new and old players. 

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I've only ever played two others.   Not going to mention them because it's not fair to the owners of this forum to do so.  One of them didn't have official servers and the other did not allow a small group of veteran players on pvp to jump from server to server wrecking new players.  That's unique to ARK in my experience.

Every game has a reward system.   Literally every game, ever.  It's a basic part of game design.   Do you think people would spend hours taming a dino with the expectation that it gets back up and becomes wild again at the end?   Or do you think people hit trees with axes in the anticipation that no resources come out?  Even pinball and classic games like pacman have basic reward systems designed to keep the player playing.  That system is dysfunctional in ARK on the official PVP servers because the rewards are impossible to keep.  The ephemeral nature of the reward makes it meaningless in a practical sense.

You enjoy the current paradigm for whatever reason.   So you're happy to keep it.  Like I said before, good for you.  I am happy you enjoy the game.

But, it seems your attitude is L2P or leave.   So people are leaving.  Obviously they are not welcome.  Your attitude has only further reinforced that perception for me since I made my first post.  Thank you for bringing this into full focus for me.  Before I only felt as if new players were unwelcome.   You've confirmed my intuition.

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1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said:

New players are always welcome.

To get clubbed on the beach like the Bobs they are.

 

New players have to figure out hot to play this game. It's sink or swim. Most, like you say, sink.

That means new players are not welcome.  That's a development team and a community that does not want new players on the pvp servers.  Thank you for confirming this, again.  Those who have been around longer seem to enjoy the paradigm and newer players find it insufferable.  If you would like to contradict my assessment that this game is made primarily for legacy players and is openly unwelcoming to new players let me know.  But so far all you've done is convince me that I am correct.  Hopefully, some potential new players will see my review and save money.  Or buy the game with the understanding that PVP is dysfunctional and accept that they won't be able to play it before making their purchase.

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8 hours ago, hopdevil said:

I know.  That's why most new players who want to play PVP will end up leaving the game not long after purchase.  The reward system is broken.  Without a reward system a game is just pedantic button mashing.  No incentive for continued play means most people won't continue to play.

Obviously there are two sides to this issue based on the responses to this thread.  And as I said before, if you're inside looking out it must seem okay.   But if you're on the outside looking in it's a waste of time.  You're on the inside.   Congrats.   Enjoy your desert.  As time goes on it will get more and more desolate without new players.  Fun times.

When you consider the times WC/Snail has shut down older servers due to pops loss it's clear that is exactly what is happening: people are either fleeing to new servers or just fleeing entirely from the game. Not too smart when you want people to keep buying the game from a sales perspective, certainly counter-intuitive to game play when players need other players to actually play the game Of course I am assuming people want other people to game with, I am unsure of the number of socially maladjusted minds that play the game so can't make an estimate as to their effect on game play overall, except to let the number of PvP servers vs PvE servers (official or otherwise) speak for themselves. Considering the players are capable of running their own servers it must be apparent to WC/Snail that the manner in which they officially run their PvP is not the most popular if the server numbers are any indication.

Edited by Probitas
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I used to play PVP, then when I wasn't part of alpha tribes anymore I tried playing on PVP solo. A lot of people play PVP with the intention of bullying players, its a very unfriendly environment especially if you aren't part of an alpha tribe. 

 

 

I have since switched to PVE and let me tell you it is 5 THOUSAND times better. People will GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to help you. I had people giving me armor and dinos for free to get me started out and I didn't even ask for it. People are much more likely to help you out because nobody is competing with each other and overall it is a much nicer experience, and since dinos can't be killed by players a lot of people are just sitting on hundreds of cryo'd dinos they will probably never use so they just hand them out to new players who need a boost. 

 

I would suggest starting out again on a PVE server, the only downside is a lot of areas on the maps are pillared off but I didn't have any issues finding a spot. Just ask when you spawn in where there are areas to build. 

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I think the important thing to remember is you do not need the official PVP servers to play Ark.  If you are not enjoying official servers then join or create unofficial servers.  It is what it is.  You are arriving late to a persistent online game where lots of people have already put in a lot of time and work.  I got a lot of enjoyment out of this game by sticking to unofficial.  I knew I didn't want to dedicate that much of my life to keeping afloat on official.

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Everyone is saying things (mainly) that will help. PVP is not really about fair. And even in the best situation you play PVA.. what is PVA? 

say you don't work out with pvp and you end up going to pve. well it will go well. or it SHOULD but even then, You can get

your base wiped. you can get dinos vanished etc. 

PVP- player vs player

PVE - player vs environment

PVA -Player vs ark

Fair isn't something you will find much of here, Not being snarky or even trying to not understand. I've been through it and

seen it.

2 years invested and everyday I wish my posse had wanted to play when I started, would have rented a server sooner and avoided official.

We have our own server, but I have dinos now on official that we are attached to, so we stay.

I hope you find something that works for you and yours. Good luck!

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Why is it that every bob thinks they deserve to have officials changed to suit them because they are late to the party? To compound this even more the majority including the OP seem to be under the impression that learning how to play is to be done on official servers rather than single player. 

Sandbox games favour those that can donate more time to them and offical PvP is just a large sandbox with alot of people who enjoy smashing others sandcastles, absolutely nothing wrong with that its how they choose to play the game.

The game has a lot of issues but this sort of thing doesn't need to be changed as other options to official PvP are available and if new players can't wrap their heads around the fact that they are joining a game many a year old then that is on them.

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