Movement Speed Changes in ASA

[SunsetErosion]

2 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

Forget COD. Rust is probably a better comparison. The early game bow and arrow/spear fights in Rust are a blast, maybe even more fun than late game gun fights.

Yes, I never did catch a lot of PvP gameplay but yeah for me the early-game PvP is the best, "COD" with tranqs, bolas and whatever. Very interesting matches. I also really like the "end"games of SOTF when on foot against other people on foot. No speed advantage for anyone there. Though I think base speed for players is like 120 or so it feels like and stamina is out of the roof there...

2 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

In Ark, everyone's got enough speed to pretty much become unhittable. I think with the speed changes we'll see some really fun primitive fighting akin to early game Rust.

Yes,
PvP: Against another player, and both have insane speed, its a fast superhuman like fight... It doesnt fit Ark in my opinion neither.
PvE: When your speed is above 130, the main common threats, Raptors, Cats, Carnos etc can easily be tricked or avoided. Making an encounter wild a big part of the wildlife a choice like "meh, I dont want to play now" -> Unless you want to play, they dont appeal a higher threat to a human than a rat...

 

2 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

In terms of an on-foot player getting smacked by a guy with a pack of Barys or Allos, well, he should. Ark is asymmetrical warfare.

2 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

There is of course room to outplay people, but being outmatched that bad shouldn't have a get out of jail free card that speed leveling offers. Net guns can help to offset this a bit.

True. But I think its also true that beeing able to sneak out of the fight. Which can be hard either way, opens up the motivation to be able to get that "AhHAH! aint gonne get me! See you around!" for the weaker player. Else its gonne be just a stomp and the new player will have a really hard time trying to struggle his/her way into tricking/winning ANY ground in the "dispute"
Another situation: A endgame player on foot with a RocketLauncher and a shotgun VS an endgame player with a high tier Therizino. The player is gonig to need a decent amount of speed to kite even a few shots before the Therizino hits him 2-3 times max and kill him...
Without any speed, the Therizino stomps if it wouldnt stomp anyway, but why would a Therizino be stronger weapon than endgame BP shotguns?
You can correct me on this for sure as I am not a experienced PvP player...

The motivation against removing the boosting of speed though, especially in dinos, comes from my PvE experience. And in general its more a feeling (from someone that played 10k+ hours) than that I can give a substantiated opinion. PvP wise for me its a total agreement. But the freedom to chance and boost speed, in PvE (and Singleplayer) in dinos opens up personification, fun and fast pace...
It should always have been limited more though I agree... Or the wildlife needs to be faster, I dunno

[Pipinghot]

8 hours ago, SunsetErosion said:

The motivation against removing the boosting of speed though, especially in dinos, comes from my PvE experience. And in general its more a feeling (from someone that played 10k+ hours) than that I can give a substantiated opinion. PvP wise for me its a total agreement. But the freedom to chance and boost speed, in PvE (and Singleplayer) in dinos opens up personification, fun and fast pace...

It's not so much a "substantiated opinion" as a personal preference. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely entitled to that personal preference, but playing lots of hours in PvE doesn't give your preference more weight than someone else's personal preference.

My personal preference, as a player with thousands of hours, who has spent more time in PvE than PvP, is the opposite of yours. I think removing the ability to boost run speed makes the game more challenging, and therefore better and more enjoyable. But again, that's a personal preference, there is no objective measure of what's fun. But there is a slightly general objective measure of what's more or less difficult, more or less challenging. Removing the ability to boost speed makes the PvE game somewhat more difficult and challenging, that much is true, and the two of us have different personal preferences about whether that will make the game more enjoyable.

To help explain what I mean here's an example... I think Aberration was the best map WildCard made themselves. It had the best level of PvE difficulty and challenges, having a progression that was built in to the biomes, felt natural, was less impacted by the native buginess of ARK, and felt like they took the time to actually complete the map (as compared to Extinction which feels like they just gave up before finishing it). But I have a friend and long-term tribe mate who liked Aberration the least, in fact he actively disliked it. Why? Because of "no flyers". His favorite way to play ARK is from the back of an argy. Not a wyvern, not a managarmr, not even a rock drake on Aberration. He's at his happiest when we're at the level of progression where the argy is the main work horse of game play. Is he wrong? No. Am I right? No. We just each have our preferences.

So while you're fully entitled to prefer the ability to boost movement speed, in no way does your number of hours in PvE make your opinion more substantiated than anyone else's. Your personal preference carries the same weight as anyone else's personal preference, but no more than that.

 

If we're evaluating movement speed in the big picture, rather than just your preference or my preference, the real question that should be asked is "What is the preference of the majority of players?" That's a question I would love to see answered but there is, unfortunately, no way to measure the preference of the majority where this change is concerned. All we have to go by are the preferences expressed by a few people on the forums/Discord/Twitter. It might be possible, if someone was able to collect all of the opinions that have been expressed on forums/Discord/Twitter to present an evaluation of that data set, but since no one is willing to do the work of collecting all of those opinions and presenting them as honest data, we have no way of knowing what the player base really thinks.

 

You don't like it, and I support your right to dislike it, but this is not a change in which anyone's opinion is more substantiated than anyone else's.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Pipinghot

[Scheneighnay]

My money is that the reason for the change is to make it harder for players to outpace render speed.

 

Of course it makes balance a lot simpler too.

[banggugyangu]

As a PvE player, I dislike the removal of movement speed leveling solely for the inconvenience of extending the time it takes to walk around.  The base movement speed is slower than what is reasonable for the average human.  Sprinting in-game fresh off the beach is about the speed of a moderate power-walk for the average person.  Despite barely being a physical exertion, stamina drains at a severe rate.  These 2 factors combined make our "survivors" about as physically fit as your average early 2000s WoW player.  I'm not in amazing physical shape anymore, but I can flat out sprint for a good 45 seconds before I'm winded.  When I pace myself,  I can run an 8 minute mile with little strain.  I've always wondered what's "fun" about a situation where your game character, who's supposed to be capable of surviving the harsh environment of the ARKs, struggles to keep pace with the average high-schooler that never exercises.

The changes I would have made, personally, would have been as such:

1:  Base movement speed approximately equivalent to 145% while sprinting.  Base walking speed unchanged or, if boosted, only slightly faster.

2:  Sprinting uses stamina at approximately 50% of the current rate, but with modifications to this:

• Restoration of stamina reduces oxygen, food, and water (Food and water drain greatly reduced overall, not just for stamina restoration)
• Restoration of Oxygen reduces food and water slightly.
• Oxygen restoration is directly tied to the percentage of food and water.
• Stamina drain and restoration are both directly tied to Oxygen percentage.

These changes would lead to a situation where sprinting is much more impactful, but comes at a cost that, when used extensively, greatly hinders your ability to continue sprinting.  This would also make the situation more realistic, but in a way that shouldn't take away from the fun aspect of the game.  (In real life, our endurance decreases the more winded we get.  Hydration and diet both greatly affect the rate at which we are winded, as well as how quickly we recover.)

From there, the only other change I would make would be to change the "Movement Speed" stat to "Athleticism".  This new stat would very slightly increase movement speed (Not anything close to how it currently is increased.) while reducing the effects your oxygen, food, and water stats have on stamina.  The slight boosts to movement speed would be more exaggerated while sprinting due to the more exaggerated sprinting speed, anyway, and being more athletic means you can sprint for longer times without being winded, and you can also recover from a winded state more quickly.

[wildbill]

8 hours ago, Scheneighnay said:

My money is that the reason for the change is to make it harder for players to outpace render speed.

 

Of course it makes balance a lot simpler too.

From what I've heard, UE5 can render in a base much faster than UE4 could. I can't see any reason they need to do this other than because PvP players on official servers tended to exploit speed leveling to where they could outpace things like turrets ability to track and hit them. Things like that, nothing to do with render speed technically. Although I don't know a lot about the real reason, since I never play on officials and never play PvP. 

Your comment on balance is relevant I think. Really, you only need to balance PvP, and this change is all about the PvP.

The other 3/4 of us that either don't play PvP or don't play on officials don't need this nerf. All the unofficial servers that don't want speed leveling will just enable it on the server and it will be a non issue.

 

[TankinTBone]

the reason why speed is good is because of the complications of pvp when u have that speed u can reposition urself.... i had 178 movement speed for ark survivial island and i didnt even really use it much besides pvm survivial. Making the cap 100 is super bad for someone like me because of the fact the im not gonna have the luxury to be able to start up a breeding right away unlike a bigger tribe. This is basically a make the bigger tribes stronger make the smaller ones weak in my eyes and im totally against it. I do not care what anyone thinks about the situation smaller tribes need a buff they need better base spots more convenience to try to build up and possibly offline protection for them to even have a chance. Even the good spots on official for a smaller tribe were so popular they were frequently scouted. 

[TankinTBone]

breeding line by the way not breeding i still think their should be a less efficient but smaller tek replicator in the game i can do without a indie forge but tek is necessary ( i still thinks it should be limited but its good to boost u to mid to late game, its just really inconvenient to get in the current scenario of a solo you have to get a quetz with a platform or put it somewhere vulnerable without turrets or if not u just have to have a crap ton of weight on a flyer and go back and forth to a terminal which is poop ......( tek suit) gen 2 sucks btw even tho ive used that method. also why cant you make a straight up generator in the obelisk or tek turrets....  now this whole forum is off topic but yea

[TankinTBone]

The most amount of turrets i got so far solo was 25 and im still trying to increase that, but even if i did i still think i would get offlined or cheesed or rushed in a fraction of the time that it took for me to build (offense currently stronger than defense unless you have active players) also im still trying to look for good base spots that are good in the early game  into the late game on the maps i like but their arnt many unless im gonna try to do 5 metal runs a day never have a offline timer farm all the electronics in the world etc etc. the movement speed nerf is bad to me because as a solo you need all the assistance you can get and have the least amount of  mistakes  possible so you don't slow down and you have no setbacks, lowers the movement speed is going to make those deaths/mistakes a lot more common. 

[St1ckyBandit]

23 hours ago, wildbill said:

From what I've heard, UE5 can render in a base much faster than UE4 could. I can't see any reason they need to do this other than because PvP players on official servers tended to exploit speed leveling to where they could outpace things like turrets ability to track and hit them. Things like that, nothing to do with render speed technically. Although I don't know a lot about the real reason, since I never play on officials and never play PvP. 

Your comment on balance is relevant I think. Really, you only need to balance PvP, and this change is all about the PvP.

The other 3/4 of us that either don't play PvP or don't play on officials don't need this nerf. All the unofficial servers that don't want speed leveling will just enable it on the server and it will be a non issue.

 

Imo this is a pretty big change to the player vs environment aspect of the game as well.

Imagine running through the Redwoods on foot without movement speed cranked up. It's gonna be really tough.

Imagine caves that you cant fit animals through because of the cryopod changes. Again, very daunting prospect when you cant just turn and run 100mph out of the cave on foot.

The swamp, the snow, etc etc. Aside from beginner beach areas the map is actually going to be dangerous. 

Honestly it might even be a bigger PvE change than a PvP one.

[Noricha]

Imagine not being able to out walk Turtles on the beach…

[TheOneAboveAll]

I have 815 days played on official. I knew asa was a scam the moment they flip floped on charging for it after saying it was gonna be free and no data loss. Now its not free. It's complete data loss and imho worse then ase. Removing movement speed removes an entire playstyle from the game. It's good for those who don't like it. But I dont like weight characters or characters with 1100 hp. But I dont want them Removed. I will never buy asa after this change/announcement of a change. It was already a scam to buy the same game/content we already had. With some added sprinkles. But now it's both worse and will have less content. Removing ase official will have destroyed this franchise for my tribe and many like it.

Edited October 12, 2023 by TheOneAboveAll

[TheOneAboveAll]

This killed any chance on me buying asa. I have 815 days played. My tribe leader and Co leader have 1650 and 960 days played respectively. This killed the Chance of them getting the game aswell. This might be liked by some but it kills it for many.

[zero064]

There's already a thread on the movement speed, and most of us are quite happy about the change. I'm willing to give it a shot.

As for the cost, nobody likes paying for another game, but making games costs money and Snail's financial picture isn't pretty. If you wanna play Ark, then be ready to pay.

[St1ckyBandit]

Hmm someones mad about their speed crutch being gone. I guess it was such a crutch for OP that he cant even play the game without it.

Now you have to actually deal with threats instead of running away from everything for free.

 

[TheOneAboveAll]

Lol see that's what I'm talking about. Clowns talking about Ms being a crutch... its not about me not being able to. I don't want to. I have spent thousands on many games. I have 7 apex legends airlooms. I have spent 5000 usd on the block game trove. It's not about money it's about principle. Just because you are happy with speed removed doesn't mean there isn't just as many not happy. And that's less people to play with or against for you. Common sense just isn't that common anymore.

Edited October 12, 2023 by TheOneAboveAll

[banggugyangu]

6 hours ago, zero064 said:

There's already a thread on the movement speed, and most of us are quite happy about the change. I'm willing to give it a shot.

As for the cost, nobody likes paying for another game, but making games costs money and Snail's financial picture isn't pretty. If you wanna play Ark, then be ready to pay.

I will say that having to pay full price for ASA when ASE was already a pretty shameless money grab due to the multitude of unaddressed game-breaking bugs is pretty crappy.  This feeling compounds exponentially when you consider the cause of this is due to Snail's horrible money-management, terrible business ideas, and just overall bad leadership in the publisher.  I'm not upset that ASA has a cost, but I AM upset that the cost is as much as I paid for ASE where I felt like we were handed a soiled clump of toilet paper at times.  I've said this multiple times through the years, but ASE was a game of great concepts, but shallow implementation and bad execution.  My hope is that with the years of experience WC now have, ASA will be something far greater and won't fall into the same pattern.

7 hours ago, TheOneAboveAll said:

I have 815 days played on official. I knew asa was a scam the moment they flip floped on charging for it after saying it was gonna be free and no data loss. Now its not free. It's complete data loss and imho worse then ase. Removing movement speed removes an entire playstyle from the game. It's good for those who don't like it. But I dont like weight characters or characters with 1100 hp. But I dont want them Removed. I will never buy asa after this change/announcement of a change. It was already a scam to buy the same game/content we already had. With some added sprinkles. But now it's both worse and will have less content. Removing ase official will have destroyed this franchise for my tribe and many like it.

As someone that PREFERS higher movement speed, it IS a crutch.  It overcomes nearly every game mechanic that exists simply by getting to about 170% movement speed.  This is from a PvE perspective, and PvP was even more affected by it.  I've already stated that I disagree with the outright removal of it altogether, and I laid out the changes I personally would have made instead about 5 posts back.  What concerns me is that the outright removal of movement speed leveling demonstrates the same lack of creative thinking that we've seen from WC toward gameplay aspects since day 1.  There are other ways to handle problems outside of just a nerf or buff...  Ultimately movement speed as it was WAS a problem.  I just disagree with their approach to the "fix".

 

That said, if you want to level movement speed, play on a private server.  If you don't find servers setup how you would prefer, host your own.

[DirkInSA]

I must agree with @TheOneAboveAll, Killing movement speed chops out a whole playstyle. I also don't want a toon with the carry capacity of an 18 wheeler, or a rambo guy with more hit points than wild giga. That's not how I like to play games - any game! 

So yeah - a bad move, poorly done from my view. 

But then I guess it don't impact me because I fully intend carrying right on with A S E - A S A is not on my radar at all!

[DirkInSA]

6 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

There are other ways to handle problems outside of just a nerf or buff...

^^ This !!!!! A flat "stop" is the lazy way out - a bad move poorly done!

[Joebl0w13]

17 hours ago, Noricha said:

Imagine not being able to out walk Turtles on the beach…

He's coming for you....
 

[St1ckyBandit]

2 hours ago, DirkInSA said:

^^ This !!!!! A flat "stop" is the lazy way out - a bad move poorly done!

Technically we dont know if they've pumped up the base movement speed a bit to compensate for not being able to level speed at all.

While I'm a proponent of the change, I can still recognize that completely base movement speed of ASE was very slow. Hopefully we get a happy middle ground.

[Noricha]

1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said:

He's coming for you....
 

Omg, it’s so cute, death by Turtle is going to be a thing for me.  I’ll have to stand on a cliff if I want to tame one, lol.

[banggugyangu]

25 minutes ago, St1ckyBandit said:

Technically we dont know if they've pumped up the base movement speed a bit to compensate for not being able to level speed at all.

While I'm a proponent of the change, I can still recognize that completely base movement speed of ASE was very slow. Hopefully we get a happy middle ground.

I think just a flat movement speed rate in general is the wrong move.  As I mentioned in the long post about my proposed rework, I think the base walking speed was fine, or at most deserved a very slight boost, but the sprinting speed needs a significant boost and a rework as to how it actually behaves.

What my proposed rework would address is providing the ability to run away to safety when necessary without providing the ability to just full on light the ground on fire non-stop.

Sprinting should be more impactful and more usable, but with real drawbacks to over-use.

Edited October 12, 2023 by banggugyangu

[TankinTBone]

just give us expensive roid serums that make us fast as f... well u get the point lol but yea good points here . 

[TheOneAboveAll]

3 hours ago, banggugyangu said:

I will say that having to pay full price for ASA when ASE was already a pretty shameless money grab due to the multitude of unaddressed game-breaking bugs is pretty crappy.  This feeling compounds exponentially when you consider the cause of this is due to Snail's horrible money-management, terrible business ideas, and just overall bad leadership in the publisher.  I'm not upset that ASA has a cost, but I AM upset that the cost is as much as I paid for ASE where I felt like we were handed a soiled clump of toilet paper at times.  I've said this multiple times through the years, but ASE was a game of great concepts, but shallow implementation and bad execution.  My hope is that with the years of experience WC now have, ASA will be something far greater and won't fall into the same pattern.

As someone that PREFERS higher movement speed, it IS a crutch.  It overcomes nearly every game mechanic that exists simply by getting to about 170% movement speed.  This is from a PvE perspective, and PvP was even more affected by it.  I've already stated that I disagree with the outright removal of it altogether, and I laid out the changes I personally would have made instead about 5 posts back.  What concerns me is that the outright removal of movement speed leveling demonstrates the same lack of creative thinking that we've seen from WC toward gameplay aspects since day 1.  There are other ways to handle problems outside of just a nerf or buff...  Ultimately movement speed as it was WAS a problem.  I just disagree with their approach to the "fix".

 

That said, if you want to level movement speed, play on a private server.  If you don't find servers setup how you would prefer, host your own.

That's your opinion of it. And eliminating an entire playstyle is a terrible idea at face value

[TankinTBone]

it would be nice to the problems of movement speed because they probably did more good than bad... as long as armor and turrets dealing damage to rush tactics it shouldnt need nerfed into the ground because a lot of times ive seen people just grapple glitch anyways at least on youtube .... im guessing thats the primary method. there should should a certain amount of turrets to that nothing should rush is without multiple people including beer runs mana bloodstalker snow owl ...... which their obviously is a line but its its hard when you gotta go against top line when people just trade for em