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Cedric

Weigh In: Options for the future of Primitive+

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Before we engage in this conversation, please keep it constructive.  It's also important to remember that there is no timeline or guarantee to the options proposed here.  Part of my job is to make sure the development and management side is armed with enough info from the community when they go to make these decisions.  I want to be able to take the conversation to the table when that happens.  Some of the things proposed will be unrealistic or not even possible, and that's OK.  The point is to start the conversation.

It's important to understand a few things about Primitive+ before we start.  It's a total conversion.  Total conversion overwrites core game files to make it easier for modders that plan on making lots of changes to the core game.  It edits those files directly instead of creating copies of them like traditional mods.  When the main game is updated, it overwrites those total conversion changes with the main game updates.  This means that total conversions like Primitive+ are hard to maintain because it's essentially creating the mod over with every update.  Those who play may notice that's why some bugs always reoccur.

So with that said I'll kick it off with some ideas that we've tossed around internally:

  • Convert it to a Mod
    • Positives: Easier maintenance internally, Faster updates, no recurring bugs, faster loading
    • Negatives: Wipe would most likely be needed, potential functionality loss
  • Seek Free (It's what XBOX uses for loading)
    • Positives: Faster loading
    • Negatives: Susceptible to issues with total conversions (listed above)
  • Integrate it into the main game
    • Positives: It's no longer a separate DLC and enhances the existing primitive content
    • Negatives: It loses the specific mode
  • Let the community maintain it
    • Positives: The community can deem where it should go
    • Negatives: I'm sure there will be a lot of logistics to figure out the right way to get this done

As I've stated, our last option is to remove content.  If you feel we should do so give me your thoughts.  Do you have some other options?  Weigh in!

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Posted (edited)

Got my original account back! 

Anyways, I think it should be either converted to a mod or made part of the main game. It has so much content that I wish standard ark would have. Alongside that I would love to see more structure variety in the game and Prim+ offers that along with so much more, new resources are always a fun thing to look for and collect while also giving Modder’s a wide variety of core assets to play with. The new resources here could literally change the game for the better in my opinion. And bacon. I love everything that Prim+ offers and being part of the main game would have such a drastic impact and may even draw people back to the game.  

In short, I think main game is the best choice.

Id love to hear what others have to say about this! 

 

 

Thanks Ced for listening :)

Edited by GhostlyComa
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Let me preface this by saying I have not played Prim+. For the only reason of it not being part of the main game and I've not even fully explored the base game.

That said, I'm envious and totally biased when I vote for adding it to the main game. More building options and variety is always a plus in my opinion.

Perhaps it would be advantageous to add a server setting to allow server admins the option to disable Prim+, or make a server Prim+ only, allowing it to still be a game 'mode' but still part of the main game. This would also make it possible for there to still be Prim+ only official servers. (Assuming thats even a thing? I'm assuming it is.)

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In my opinion it should be intergrated into the main game into the engram  tree perhaps someplace above lvl 30 or so. Not as total conversion mod or dlc. The base game latest homestead update would be perfect with primitive+ to role play and create a more featured village or town for our tribes. The base game would be so much better. I’ve always wished the main game had all the engrams of primitive+ It’s feels as if it should have been in the game to begin with. 

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I would vote for adding it to main game. But if that were to happen, what would happen to those who are running prim plus servers? Would they convert? Would we loose items due to change? 

 

This is all hypothetical and more or less out of curiosity for those who are on console and do unofficial servers.

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5 minutes ago, ltlmtangel said:

I would vote for adding it to main game. But if that were to happen, what would happen to those who are running prim plus servers? Would they convert? Would we loose items due to change? 

 

This is all hypothetical and more or less out of curiosity for those who are on console and do unofficial servers.

Good question, I guess in theory you could preserve the total conversion - release it to the workshop - then prim plus servers could still run.  But it wouldn't receive updates.  So those servers would be stuck on that mode forever.

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I dont use prim+ but i would say add it to main game so i can finnaly get the main option, tho you can add a setting to the servers or single of using only prim+ so that gives every one the option of how difficult they want there experience to be , they can use modern items or turn of modern items! That way everone can pursue what time of gameplay they desire just by clicking on or off a few option

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- put it into the main game -->  sounds cool (willbe there new servers (official) for it ?

 

-change it to a mob ? Whats the difference to Main game then?  -> will we recive official servers with the mod option ?!

 

Prim+ is a fking good gamemode tbh- i play it on official pvp since years,  i know many  people want to play  prim+  but the  long loading and  minor  support make them afroid of.

 

 

I am voting for main game and create a new server cluster   :D

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My spouse and I got Ark because it was something we thought we both would enjoy. We got excited about the general premise and expansive worlds, but came to Ark as both Dino nerds and hardcore sim and build gamers. Ark is hands down the best building game either of us have ever seen, but the additional build options available in Primitive+ are a great boon to us who love Ark for building. 

 

Granted, we don’t play official servers, because we have no interest in an artificial struggle for survival as life is truly already that, and video games are an escape. For all us dreamer wannabe architect gamers who would follow Ark to the ends of the Earth...please add it to the main game and keep more decor and build options coming. 

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Please integrate Prim+ into the main game.

I play on the official servers for both regular ARK and Prim+.  The long load time on Prim+ is an option I would happily do without. I would love to be able to use all the primitive building options in the main game, while using my favourite rifle and tranqs!  It doesn't have to be a specific mode for it to be enjoyable.  Besides, having to switch back and forth between modes makes my computer cranky lol.

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So, quick thing I should mention before adding my 2 cents; I played Prim+ quite a lot when it first released for console. I love it. Mostly because it has SO many things the regular ARK doesn’t. That being said. I think you should integrate it into the current build of ARK, because of the lack of attention it’s had, to most it will seem like an entire new DLC for the game, and get some real traffic back to this already fantastic game. Regular ARK needs these items and materials. I own a server, and love building new stuff. But basic ARK just doesn’t have all the items for crafting and building new stuff. I rambled. But that’s my thought on this..

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Hi Ced! Love that this is under discussion in a focused topic. I run private servers and recently we ran a prim plus season and it was awesome. We play on console so my first point here is please don’t leave console out of whatever happens. We don’t have as much variety as PC and this is one of the few things which is available. 

From an unofficial server perspective it would be awesome to integrate the items into the main game. In terms of preserving the ethos behind it, could release a basic ini file (or just add a settings tick box would be nice) which has the coding already worked out and will have your server run in “prim plus mode” ie excluding the non primitive items in the spritit of the original mode. 

Other thing is it really needs an end game tek type tier but prim style. If people don’t pvp they often like something to work towards and that is missing here. Could be the same bosses still but they unlock prim focused items so if you are playing in “dual mode” (all ark engrams available to you as standard) when you defeat a boss you’ll get normal tekgrams and also primgrams (copyright me for just inventing that word lol?) if you are playing in “prim only mode” you maybe still unlock everything but can only access the Primgrams if in prim only. That adds a nice element that you can cluster in a prim server for people to visit if you run and few and just have it.

Not sure about the logistics of it, but with a bit of time it’s currently possible to just exclude engrams and items existing using the code in the ini files so while it will take time to integrate the items into main game it would give the greatest flexibility and options to the pc and console community.

Defo have some from of release to Worksop as well so the community can tinker and maintain the old version.

PS. Please don’t forget console 👏🏻

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Posted (edited)

Lot of people are saying "add it to the main game."  Please do not do this.  It would basically waste all that is Prim+, because given the choice on live servers between Prim+ stuff or normal Tek/Metal tier ARK, 90+% of everyone will just build with the Tek/Metal (non-Prim+). 

Prim+ is cool because of the challenge it presents, and the change to the game.  If you can't just FIX it in place using the total-conversion framework, then make it a mod, support it, update it, and make it work.  Actually, just fix it and update it.  The load-time is a bummer for sure, but that is very low on the list of complaints and issues with Prim+ at the moment.

EDIT:  Having more options that are just options (and many Prim+ engrams are purposely designed to add difficulty to the game, in a different way than the normal ones) will just make it confusing and seem too bloated.  Please don't just add it all to the main game.

Edited by TheDonn
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I used to love Prim+ but over time it became obvious that the total conversion is just not viable in the long term without dedicated support, which I appreciate might not be a possibility due to financial/time constraints.

At this point I would say integration of any operable components into the main game would be ideal, for me at least. Things like additional crops/recipes together with their required structures such as cooking station etc could be utilised as a bonus feature without being game breaking/changing. The additional building assets would be a welcome relief from the constant stone and wood.

Perhaps combined with the old style Primitive official servers (not Prim+ but the ones we used to have where tek/electrics were limited) but please, if we have new servers can we please release some for PvE as well this time, getting fed up of the bias towards PvP in the new server constructs.

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Primitive plus is like a lost lover to me. I used to play it all the time was what really made me love ark and come to understand the game. It's where I made alot of the friends I play with on ark now  tho none of us really play primitive anymore with all the bugs but I'd go back to it in a heart beat if it was brought up to the bar offical ark is at. All of its unique qualities to me make it better then official ark. I'd love to see it brought into the main game. Sorry for the novel just really love the game mode.

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Hey Ced, 

I've been playing Ark for about 15 months now. All but the first month in Prim+ crossark3.  I find mixing dino's and advanced tech silly.

I think that integrating the prim+ files into the main game would waste the experience that prim+ brings. Overcoming all the challenges with a primitive game style is what makes prim+ special. Its like playing Ark on hardmode. Adding the engrams to the tek servers would simply allow you to bypass those challenges. If that's the route chosen you've just wasted all the effort that's been put into Prim+. 

Would it be possible to make it into an officially supported mod that is hosted on official crossarks that preserves current progress that is on the servers already? At the same time adding the engrams to the main game engram tree? This would allow for the rest of the Ark players to experience a taste of what we've had the pleasure of enjoying and give people the option to keep the prim+ hard mode struggle. As well as not making us start over. I'm not 100% opposed to starting over, but I'd prefer not to have to if it means having the ability to fix the game.

My second choice would be to make it into an unofficial mod where we can download the saves from current server files. There is plenty of support from the prim+ community that will keep it alive on unofficials servers. I wouldn't be surprised if there are enough code savvy players out there that could move it forward.

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Feedback from a German PS4 Player that was playing with friends on an own Server. 

We reallys loved the mod/gamemode/Total Conversion but it was less because of the added restrictions or sometimes more complicated methods to get some stuff. The main reason we liked P+ was the new Crafting Stations (firewood, tanning rack), Storage Boxes (woodshed) and the Lumber tier for Building. So you could say we only liked the new Building and Decoration Stuff but always felt like the game was now missing something because of the more advanced Items no longer being available for us.

One of the main Reasons we stopped was because we wanted to reset our Ragnarok save and we had to decide for a long time if the Decoration stuff and new building Parts were really worth it. The Straws that broke the camel's back were lastly some minor things like the P+ Lumber Wall always Changing their Textures and thus sometimes/always ruining some of our buildings looks (we only build with these stuff because, damn it looks so much better than Vanilla) and stuff that was added in the Homestead Update of ark but wa missing in P+ like the Triangle Stuff and block texture for Lumber foundations. (Now I kinda know why, It could not be added because it had to be done nearly from scratch because of the update)

If I and my fellow Players had to decide I think it would be best to add P+ into the Main Game without the Tech and High-Tek Restrictions. More Building stuff is always a good Idea.

The Option in the main menu to choose between Survival Evolved and P+ (if this would work) could still be a Trigger that says: while this mode is activated -> disable the following Engrams (everything that does not suit P+) until the game is switched back to Survival Evolved.

This could solve 2 Problems at the same Time. First everyone can get new Stuff to build/decorate with no mather what Map/DLC they are playing and secondly there still would be the option to play P+ like it was intended (without advanced Weaponry or Tek)

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Hi im a admin of a populated center prim server with years put into this game abd game modd i currently host to over 200 players and would hate to see an lost of progress and story line that most of the role play friendly prim plus servers have. Adding the features to the main game sound like fun but the tek completely destroys this game mode.the way its currently structured allows the alpha positions to always be up for grabs and puts the focus on community and creatures. (Something the main game lacks after you get past the metal teir)  my #1 concern is my player base what would happen if these servers that have love and lives poyred into them are just wiped or thrown in with a game mode that most of us prim players are very happy not to have! I would love to see an expansion to prim theirs so much that could be added and the hard core prim players are ready for! ❤️

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If were looking for the community to weigh in on a topic but half of these comments edmit they never played the game mode its self. That doesnt seem like a fair pool to get your info from :(

im a hard core prim player with years in both game modes ive been hosting a very populated prim center server for a year and see about 200 people a month on just the server i host. Most players come here to get away from tek.  Please dont mix the game types no prim player wants that its why we choose to play prim

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5 hours ago, Cedric said:

Before we engage in this conversation, please keep it constructive.  It's also important to remember that there is no timeline or guarantee to the options proposed here.  Part of my job is to make sure the development and management side is armed with enough info from the community when they go to make these decisions.  I want to be able to take the conversation to the table when that happens.  Some of the things proposed will be unrealistic or not even possible, and that's OK.  The point is to start the conversation.

It's important to understand a few things about Primitive+ before we start.  It's a total conversion.  Total conversion overwrites core game files to make it easier for modders that plan on making lots of changes to the core game.  It edits those files directly instead of creating copies of them like traditional mods.  When the main game is updated, it overwrites those total conversion changes with the main game updates.  This means that total conversions like Primitive+ are hard to maintain because it's essentially creating the mod over with every update.  Those who play may notice that's why some bugs always reoccur.

So with that said I'll kick it off with some ideas that we've tossed around internally:

  • Convert it to a Mod
    • Positives: Easier maintenance internally, Faster updates, no recurring bugs, faster loading
    • Negatives: Wipe would most likely be needed, potential functionality loss
  • Seek Free (It's what XBOX uses for loading)
    • Positives: Faster loading
    • Negatives: Susceptible to issues with total conversions (listed above)
  • Integrate it into the main game
    • Positives: It's no longer a separate DLC and enhances the existing primitive content
    • Negatives: It loses the specific mode
  • Let the community maintain it
    • Positives: The community can deem where it should go
    • Negatives: I'm sure there will be a lot of logistics to figure out the right way to get this done

As I've stated, our last option is to remove content.  If you feel we should do so give me your thoughts.  Do you have some other options?  Weigh in!

I think making it a mod would be best. It would most likely keep all its features without bugs [at least I hope so... 😅

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