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Kibble Rework Beta Feedback

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1 hour ago, Eldar Seer said:

I would like to add my voice to those requesting expansion of kibble to all tames that currently lack a "perfect tame" food. For example, Paras. As an alarm/detector, they are actually useful compared to the start of Early Access, where they were just a first "big" dino tame for new players (which many players would skip for a trike). However, compared to their counterparts who can be kibble tamed, Paras tame excruciatingly slowly on their berries with absolutely horrid taming effectiveness. Similar story for scorpions and spoiled meat. 

 

RE: Prime Jerky: I think it might be a decent idea to consider replacing the chowder and chili with it. I have no commitment to prime meat jerky either way, for the record. The fact it is far more convenient to make compared to either soup could actually be a strike against it from a difficulty perspective, but in terms of QOL and convenience it is a plus. The long spoilage timer is also far more forgiving to early game players.

RE: Exceptional Kibble: I am a bit iffy on Titanoboas and Hesperornis being the only suppliers of the eggs. Specifically when the latter only counts when the eggs are golden eggs. I would suggest allowing multiple regular Hesperornis eggs- say, two or three, possibly four- to count as one golden egg for the purposes of making Exceptional kibble. Or maybe process the regular eggs in a preserving bin to convert them. Just throwing out ideas here.

 

Still, in the end I don't see anything stopping people from rolling "useless" Prime Jerky into custom recipes, nor do I think existing stockpiles should have any bearing at all on how the kibble rework proceeds. It's simply how the "economy" is at the moment, and should have no bearing on how something specifically designed to alter the game should be rolled out. Let me put it this way. You've built a massive stockpile of mud bricks to build houses out of. It's what everyone has been doing, as long as they can remember. Everyone has a stockpile of mud bricks to build their house with. Suppose someone comes up with a way to build houses that doesn't use mud bricks, but the end result is better. Based on the end result, we ought to use the new way over the old mud brick way, even it means those old mud bricks are "useless". But if there is a way to build houses the new way, and use the mud bricks in parts in such a way to create a better end product than either method, then the third way is what we should choose. 

While I generally agree with the sentiment, I don’t think the “mud brick” analogy is accurate , considering this is a game and the items do not actually have a functional difference in terms of real physics. That is to say, there is no measurable difference of one being “better” than the other. On the other hand, a lot of effort and time will have been lost with no reward, and in fact at a loss. I view it similar to if they were to make hard polymer useless after all the time it took to obtain obsidian and paste, then convert it to useable (and required polymer).  

 

As for recipes, it’s not always an option for players to revamp their recipes when the effectiveness required an allocation of points into crafting skill, and another mindwipe is either not an option or an additional problem in itself, not knowing what changes may come to engrams in the future or the amount oftime it takes between levels at ‘end game.’ That said, I can’t imagine how a recipe of 20 raw meat resulting in 300hp, 300 food, and 150 stamina could be improved upon with prime jerky.

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@Jen

My takeaways from everything I have been reading:

1. Get rid of the soups in the recipes, they are not necessary.

2. Give prime jerky a use as of now it has little actual need for anything.

3. Increase the egg laying rate of titanoboas as it has always been ridiculously low since day 1.

4. Make oviraptors give simulated mate boost on top of a boosted egg laying buff. This will trim down the need to have a male of every single kibble dino just for mate boost to lay eggs

5. add wyvern, drake, yuti and basilisk eggs to the top tiers of kibble giving them another use and more options to choose from.

Edited by Demerus
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17 minutes ago, Demerus said:

 

5. add wyvern, drake, yuti and basilisk eggs to the top tiers of kibble giving them another use also and more options

i was planning to  suggest same thing but adding wyvern and drake eggs can create some side effects such as empty scars.people can prefer to farm eggs from scars instead of taming some snakes.Milk farming can be issue ^^

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3 minutes ago, phantom55 said:

i was planning to  suggest same thing but adding wyvern and drake eggs can create some side effects such as empty scars.people can prefer to farm eggs from scars instead of taming some snakes.Milk farming can be issue ^^

I agree, but also keep in mind there are a lot of low lvl eggs nobody cares for. A lot of the time they drop them causing the egg to bug until it decays. Or they just leave them in the nest filling up nests that could be layed in higher lvl more useful eggs to hatch.

This will encourage people to actually keep everything they pick up instead of just tossing it out or eating it or blocking higher lvls from spawning in the nest.

Edited by Demerus

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Since we only have 2 special eggs, why not put some of those that werent use previously into this category (wyvern, rock drake, basilisk)

Other than that i think this is pretty good since we dont need 100 different dinos to get their respective eggs

PS: i know that rock drake eggs had their own kibble but they are still hard to get thus i thinking that they would be perfect for the special egg type

Edited by TNTKiller2001
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I just wanted to take a second to thank you all for your feedback! Your opinions and suggestions are being actively paid attention to and carefully considered. That said, we are currently looking into making Special(Extraordinary) Kibble more accessible.

Edited by CtrlAltDebug
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In the current build, on the island map when imprinting, it still asks for the old kibble list of 15 eggs

Will you make the imprinting like this 

If it asks for a some kibble

Say simple kibble, 

Can we be able to imprint it with either simple kibble or any of the eggs specific kibble that we still have lying around that make up the egg list for simple kibble, so dodo kibble can be used to imprint please, as many of us have 100,200 or more pre.ade kibble just for imprinting Dino's and that is going to be a big hit if that kibble no longer works for imprinting

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On 1/14/2019 at 7:29 AM, asmodiandevils said:

I agree the titanboa eggs as special will produce humongous snake pits. I'm not sure what to suggest as a replacement for this top level kibble though.

I think they should address the frequency at which titanboas lay eggs so they are a more viable egg source.  We have 12 boas on Center and I think the most I have gotten out of them in one day of playing was 6 or so eggs.  I haven't spent enough time to know it as a fact, but it seems like they don't lay that often, even when they are away from other eggers (we have ours in a special pen away from other things), in the swamp (if that matters anymore), with multiple oviraptors (because in theory the oviraptor buff stacks up to 3 ovi raptors) and even if I sit on a chair having them rendered in for hours.

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10 hours ago, Lowly said:

Don't forget that basilsiks lay eggs and don't have any use in the game, also not sure if you included compy in the list

Snow owls, which are new with extinction (duh) also don't have a use for their eggs (other than feeding titanboas).

WC Please make it so that every egg that is laid has a use, otherwise what is the point of the dino laying the unfert egg?  Other than omelettes.

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16 hours ago, TNTKiller2001 said:

Since we only have 2 special eggs, why not put some of those that werent use previously into this category (wyvern, rock drake, basilisk)

Other than that i think this is pretty good since we dont need 100 different dinos to get their respective eggs

PS: i know that rock drake eggs had their own kibble but they are still hard to get thus i thinking that they would be perfect for the special egg type

Yea, having wyv eggs be for a kibble will probably reduce how often people throw them out of their inventory in the air instead of eating them and glitching the wyv next.

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22 hours ago, ArkP1 said:

I don’t have any jerky I don’t want; just jerky that will have been a waste of time, oil and effort to make.

there is no such thing as a waste of time if you are enjoying a game.  if you are not enjoying it then it's work you aren't getting paid for and you should negotiate for better wages.  At the end of the day, nothing in this game really belongs to you anyways unless you are running your own server.

Edited by Kaprosuchus
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A concern of mine is for those players who are not on extinction, how will they craft the kibble that requires an extinction exclusive kibble such as the red/blue sap or element dust?  Furthermore, the new cryopod system is great, it helps to reduce tribe tame cap but doe not help with server tame cap.  This makes it possible for one tribe on PVE to tame cap the entire server so that no one else can play.  I feel that needs to be addressed ASAP!

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1 hour ago, Alaskadevil said:

A concern of mine is for those players who are not on extinction, how will they craft the kibble that requires an extinction exclusive kibble such as the red/blue sap or element dust?  Furthermore, the new cryopod system is great, it helps to reduce tribe tame cap but doe not help with server tame cap.  This makes it possible for one tribe on PVE to tame cap the entire server so that no one else can play.  I feel that needs to be addressed ASAP!

The recipes in the beta do not require DLC items to make. They are as follows:

Basic: 5 Fiber, 5 mejoberries, 10 tintoberries, 10 amarberries, 1 cooked meat, 1 extra small egg
Simple: 5 Fiber, 5 mejoberries, 2 rockarrot, 1 cooked fish, 1 small egg
Regular: 5 Fiber, 2 savoroot, 2 longrass, 1 cooked jerky, 1 medium egg
Superior: 5 Fiber, 2 citronal, 2 rare mushroom, 1 cooked prime, 1 sap, 1 large egg
Exceptional: 5 Fiber, 10 mejoberries, 1 rare flower, 1 focal chili, 1 extra large egg
Extraordinary: 5 Fiber, 10 mejoberries, 1 honey, 1 lazarus chowder, 1 special egg 

At the moment, the only "Special" eggs are Titanoboa and Golden Hesperonis eggs. 

 

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I have skimmed thru this thread.. and please don't yell if I missed it.. but I saw where someone put out a pdf yesterday of the kibbles and who eats what based on all of the conversations going back and forth.  One of the things I have noticed is that some of the dinos are missings from the list.. I did not see what is needed to tame a thylo for example.  Which other dinos have been missed.. 

As far as kibbles and imprinting.. is it possible that if a baby wants a raptor kibble as comfort that we make the small kibble using a raptor egg for the comfort food?  This is definitely one of the major concerns of our tribe is imprinting...

 

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the cost to make is way to easy.   Most just require cooked meat.  It would also cripple moschops even more with the lack of needing to harvest prime meat and prime fish.  Make Leeds harvesting ability useless.

Id make changes to use our old existing meats plus our crops.

cooked fish meat + berries

cooked meat + mejos + crop

cooked meat jerky + mejos + crop

cooked prime meat / cooked mutton + mejos + crop

prime meat jerky + mejos + crop

extraordinary would be cooked prime fish meat or raw mutton or raw prime + sweet vegi cakes.

 

Id also make the taming effectiveness scale based on the kibble with most long term established players only crafting Exceptional/Extraordinary and i would increase the weight of the kibble.

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3 hours ago, Tattare said:

the cost to make is way to easy.   Most just require cooked meat.  It would also cripple moschops even more with the lack of needing to harvest prime meat and prime fish.  Make Leeds harvesting ability useless.

Id make changes to use our old existing meats plus our crops.

cooked fish meat + berries

cooked meat + mejos + crop

cooked meat jerky + mejos + crop

cooked prime meat / cooked mutton + mejos + crop

prime meat jerky + mejos + crop

extraordinary would be cooked prime fish meat or raw mutton or raw prime + sweet vegi cakes.

 

Id also make the taming effectiveness scale based on the kibble with most long term established players only crafting Exceptional/Extraordinary and i would increase the weight of the kibble.

As far as how the meat plays into the kibbles, I think you are right on point. Brilliant! I was thinking the same thing, glad you beat me to it.

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4 hours ago, Tattare said:

the cost to make is way to easy.   Most just require cooked meat.  It would also cripple moschops even more with the lack of needing to harvest prime meat and prime fish.  Make Leeds harvesting ability useless.

Id make changes to use our old existing meats plus our crops.

cooked fish meat + berries

cooked meat + mejos + crop

cooked meat jerky + mejos + crop

cooked prime meat / cooked mutton + mejos + crop

prime meat jerky + mejos + crop

extraordinary would be cooked prime fish meat or raw mutton or raw prime + sweet vegi cakes.

 

Id also make the taming effectiveness scale based on the kibble with most long term established players only crafting Exceptional/Extraordinary and i would increase the weight of the kibble.

I vehemently disagree on the last point. The different "tiers" should work as currently being tested in the beta, I think, with each tier being the "perfect tame" kibble for a group of tames (i.e., basic is most effective for paras, dodos, phiomias, monkeys etc). This lets starting players get perfect tames of starting tames, and then lets them progress up the ladder (get crops, get basic, gets some trikes etc.) as they grow and expand. While the recipes probably do need some tweaking, the tiers make sense, and keeps each kibble useful in endgame if you want to perfect tame a creature of that tier. Otherwise, might as well tame damn near every carnivore with mutton/prime until you can get Exceptional kibble and then just use that for everything. It strongly disincentives use of the lower tiers outside of imprinting, and tilts the scale drastically towards strong, established players. In contrast, the current iteration levels the playing field a bit, I feel. 

 

RE: Prime fish, why not just make it so that prime fish can be substituted for prime meat in the recipes? Gets the job done, and grants more flexibility to the recipes. QoL improvement. 

RE: Crafting difficulty, I honestly figured making the whole process more streamlined and convenient was part of the point of this as a QoL improvement. The eggs for exceptional are already a PITA as is (Golden Hesperornis and Titanoboa eggs both have significant drawbacks), I would view the addition of veggie cakes specifically to the recipe as a significant downgrade. 

Edited by Eldar Seer
clarification
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My feedback is, the whole thing is crap, and just like the cross transfer servers that wrecked fair and balanced PVP, I'll have to rent my own server (already do), and just like with the unnecessary nerf of ALL flyers to solve the problem with only 1 flyer (Pteranadon), I'll have to look forward to a "Classic Kibble mod" to undo your stupid decisions.

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22 minutes ago, Eldar Seer said:

RE: Prime fish, why not just make it so that prime fish can be substituted for prime meat in the recipes? Gets the job done, and grants more flexibility to the recipes. QoL improvement. 

RE: Crafting difficulty, I honestly figured making the whole process more streamlined and convenient was part of the point of this as a QoL improvement. The eggs for exceptional are already a PITA as is (Golden Hesperornis and Titanoboa eggs both have significant drawbacks), I would view the addition of veggie cakes specifically to the recipe as a significant downgrade. 

I was thinking of something similar with fish prime, but instead giving the option between cooked fish prime and cooked mutton for the top level kibble. Fish prime is pretty easy to get in most maps, and where it is more rare, mutton seems to be very available. 

 

I think the progression that makes the most sense is:

 

Cooked fish

Cooked meat

Cooked meat jerky

Cooked Prime Meat

Cooked Prime Jerky

Cooked Fish Prime/Cooked Mutton 

 

As far as veggie cakes go, I don’t see too much of a problem, but I have no preference. As the current new kibbles are concerned, a player is already required to have the veggie cake ingredients to make all the kibbles, so it doesn’t appear it would have much bearing on difficulty.

 

I would also suggest they add new stew recipes, instead of using existing ones. Perhaps a gravy or something to distinguish them from others, but other than the meat types and forms, I don’t really have any preference for ingredients in the kibbles. 

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On 1/15/2019 at 11:45 AM, Kaprosuchus said:

there is no such thing as a waste of time if you are enjoying a game.  if you are not enjoying it then it's work you aren't getting paid for and you should negotiate for better wages.  At the end of the day, nothing in this game really belongs to you anyways unless you are running your own server.

This is a feedback forum. The work is already complete, and whether or not it was a “waste” is determined by the value. If the work produces something of less value than it was previously designated, it becomes a waste by definition. 

 

Moreover, I am completely unaware of what you are responding to in regard to ownership, as it is not coherent to anything I’ve said or mentioned.

 

Furthermore, I’m wondering exactly why someone would criticize feedback that expresses how another person would not like to endure inconvenience as a result of changes. The purpose of this section is, after all, intended to derive player opinions and observations about the possible changes. I should hope that you do not face any inconvenience that devalues the work you have already done, and I do not understand why you would cheer my inconveniences and offer ZERO constructive suggestions. 

 

Be well.

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3 hours ago, Eldar Seer said:

 

RE: Prime fish, why not just make it so that prime fish can be substituted for prime meat in the recipes? Gets the job done, and grants more flexibility to the recipes. QoL improvement. 

RE: Crafting difficulty, I honestly figured making the whole process more streamlined and convenient was part of the point of this as a QoL improvement. The eggs for exceptional are already a PITA as is (Golden Hesperornis and Titanoboa eggs both have significant drawbacks), I would view the addition of veggie cakes specifically to the recipe as a significant downgrade. 

prime fish is much harder to get than prime meat so no one would use prime fish.

titanboa eggs are easy.    Veggie cakes most pvp'ers make 2 fridges of them a day soon as they log on.  Pve does not use them enough.

 

2 hours ago, ArkP1 said:

I was thinking of something similar with fish prime, but instead giving the option between cooked fish prime and cooked mutton for the top level kibble. Fish prime is pretty easy to get in most maps, and where it is more rare, mutton seems to be very available. 

 

I think the progression that makes the most sense is:

 

Cooked fish

Cooked meat

Cooked meat jerky

Cooked Prime Meat

Cooked Prime Jerky

Cooked Fish Prime/Cooked Mutton 

 

As far as veggie cakes go, I don’t see too much of a problem, but I have no preference. As the current new kibbles are concerned, a player is already required to have the veggie cake ingredients to make all the kibbles, so it doesn’t appear it would have much bearing on difficulty.

 

I would also suggest they add new stew recipes, instead of using existing ones. Perhaps a gravy or something to distinguish them from others, but other than the meat types and forms, I don’t really have any preference for ingredients in the kibbles. 

for a kibble item thats suppose to be extraordinary cooked mutton is way to easy with cross ark travel, and the quantity you get when harvesting a sheep.   so raw prime meat, raw mutton cause of the decay and cooked prime fish are what I choose.    cooked prime fish because I know it can be a issue to collect it in quantities vs the decay timer of raw.

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37 minutes ago, Tattare said:

prime fish is much harder to get than prime meat so no one would use prime fish.

titanboa eggs are easy.    Veggie cakes most pvp'ers make 2 fridges of them a day soon as they log on.  Pve does not use them enough.

 

for a kibble item thats suppose to be extraordinary cooked mutton is way to easy with cross ark travel, and the quantity you get when harvesting a sheep.   so raw prime meat, raw mutton cause of the decay and cooked prime fish are what I choose.    cooked prime fish because I know it can be a issue to collect it in quantities vs the decay timer of raw.

For the first, I think that largely depends on where exactly your base is located. A riverside or seaside base, for example, might find it more expedient to hop in the water and grab prime fish in a pinch than to grab prime meat. Hell, maybe keep around some salmon for that exact reason. Easy prime fish  is pretty much the reason they exist in the first place.

With Titanoboa eggs, the fundamental issue is their piss poor lay rate, as has been mentioned previously earlier in the thread. If that were altered, I would have no worries about using their eggs. However, as a QoL improvement... I feel that the new kibble system should be an improvement over the old one in terms of ease of use and convenience. 

I would also disagree that PvE does not use cakes enough, since boss battles with Therizinos all but require them and, furthermore, it is literally all snails can eat. I think both of those make cakes pretty important as it is.

Regarding how "easy" it is to make... I could be wrong but I think we, on a fundamental level, disagree with how this should go. I think it should be easier as a QoL improvement, whereas you think it should be more challenging, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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I believe that Dino’s should retain their original kibbles and also have access to the new ones, which would give tribes an option between two kibbles, with the OG kibble probably being a little easier to make, while the augmented kibble would be more versatile but a little more cost and recipie heavy. IMHO though. But great work to the Devs for bringing this change to the Kibble meta

Edited by ArkSurvivorevolved
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