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58 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

And what I am saying is you can look down hold back for half a second then shift w to get insta max speed thus a wyvern rider can't out pace a griffin with this tactic.

No wyvern could catch a griffin if it dives for speed anyway. What's the point of the argument? That griffins shouldn't be able to stoop at all so wyverns remain the apex of the air? So any new dinos they bring in shouldn't shake the tree for the PvP crowd?

And no offense, but if you are looking down, even if you didn't fly back for half a second, and then shift forward for a dive, you are supposed to get a speed boost, you are diving....silly. Moving backwards isn't even required. The speed on a dive is a function of the steepness of the angle. And it only happens when you sprint, not when just moving down normally. Are you paying much attention when you do it? It shouldn't take long to achieve max speed on a dive as gravity is no longer being fought.  9.8 meters per second per second until critical velocity, which is determined by mass of the object and wind resistance, at least on planet Earth (the reason feathers don't hit like bricks when they fall).

Edited by Probitas
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35 minutes ago, Probitas said:

No wyvern could catch a griffin if it dives for speed anyway. What's the point of the argument? That griffins shouldn't be able to stoop at all so wyverns remain the apex of the air? So any new dinos they bring in shouldn't shake the tree for the PvP crowd?

And no offense, but if you are looking down, even if you didn't fly back for half a second, and then shift forward for a dive, you are supposed to get a speed boost, you are diving....silly. Moving backwards isn't even required. The speed on a dive is a function of the steepness of the angle. And it only happens when you sprint, not when just moving down normally. Are you paying much attention when you do it? It shouldn't take long to achieve max speed on a dive as gravity is no longer being fought.  9.8 meters per second per second until critical velocity, which is determined by mass of the object and wind resistance, at least on planet Earth (the reason feathers don't hit like bricks when they fall).

Pretty sure ark gravity is lower lol, have you seen how slowly dinos fall? xD

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29 minutes ago, Shadow9cat said:

Yeah.  We just tested it too.  Sprint backwards no longer works.  Sigh.  You can still look down and ascend, but it’s slow going.

True, that was removed.

What johnm81 was referring to is instantly reaching full dive speed while you're looking down and strafing, as opposed to just looking down and swooping normally (which takes a moment before you reach max velocity.)

Edited by Ascendant
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2 hours ago, Probitas said:

No wyvern could catch a griffin if it dives for speed anyway. What's the point of the argument? That griffins shouldn't be able to stoop at all so wyverns remain the apex of the air? So any new dinos they bring in shouldn't shake the tree for the PvP crowd?

And no offense, but if you are looking down, even if you didn't fly back for half a second, and then shift forward for a dive, you are supposed to get a speed boost, you are diving....silly. Moving backwards isn't even required. The speed on a dive is a function of the steepness of the angle. And it only happens when you sprint, not when just moving down normally. Are you paying much attention when you do it? It shouldn't take long to achieve max speed on a dive as gravity is no longer being fought.  9.8 meters per second per second until critical velocity, which is determined by mass of the object and wind resistance, at least on planet Earth (the reason feathers don't hit like bricks when they fall).

Probitas, take a deep breath...

  You are walking into the middle of a convo and are making lots of assumptions about what we are saying and thus replying to a strawman argument. Now go ahead and say what your thoughts on this issue are and we will go from there.

Edited by johnm81

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You could get a swipe or two in, but a competent wyvern rider will still outlast you. The key is simply not to play their game. The instant dive swoop trick will only give an advantage on the first dive and when you've only got 600-700 stamina to work with, that's not going to cut it. 

That setup (full investment in melee, zero points in health or stamina) is meant for taking advantage of situations where you have the upper hand, like catching someone totally off guard or low on stamina/health. It's an ambush build. If you went head to head against a skilled wyvern rider like that, you'd lose virtually everytime. They'll have used very little stamina comparatively while you will quickly find yourself drained and needing to land just trying to keep up.

This is where picking comes into play and a major reason why it's such a prominent feature of PvP. Why bother duking it out if you can remove the rider from the equation altogether?

Beyond all of that is the fact that the overwhelming vast majority of kibble tamed 150 griffins can't get anywhere near the 800% melee you claimed to have, even with all 71 points leveled there.

Edited by Ascendant

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On 11/22/2017 at 7:11 AM, Lurtz said:

I think at the end of the day, we might need to accept the fact that this game will eventually begin to have ever more powerful fliers. 

It is significantly easier to tame a Ptera than it is to tame a Grif or raise a wyvern. 

It is significantly easier to tame a trike than it is to get a bronto. 

Might just be time to understand that this Raptor<Rex situation will always exist in this game

Some Dinos

Are just better than others

In any and everyway. 

Almost a month ago, but, hey.

The thing is, why does it have to be a 'Raptor<Rex' situation? I mean, idealistically, my Raptor shouldn't be able to do what my Rex does and vice versa. Two different animals with two different purposes. You say some should be better than others, but it should be 'better in x regard'. The Raptor is more or less a travel mount with offensive capabilities; the Rex is a combat behemoth that can get you from point A to point B. But in every scenario, the Raptor should be the better travel animal while the Rex is the superior fighter. That's just good balance. Now, are nerfs the appropriate avenue to the balance? Personally, I think gameplay tweaks would be far more helpful than shuffling around numbers. 

That said, though, the Griffin is kinda nuts. 

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18 hours ago, isu said:

If you think that some flying dino, which can move from one corner of map to another in few mins and 2-3 hit almost any dino isn't OP, you are really delusional.

Why on PvE official you wan't to play easy easy mode?

By your definition, then I am delusional. I do not think they were OP. Before the nerf, they were more fitting for how I want to play. I wish they had more stamina, more HP, more damage, and fly faster, and their speed able to be leveled. That is my idea of fun!

Why: Because I play games to relax, build, and play with friends. I do not play to get pissed off or break down and cry because I lost my dino... Yes, I cry when I lose things. And I have the misfortune of having a severe meltdown on live stream when my griffin died because it got stuck inside the face of a carno.

Just because you don't have the sentimental attachment to virtual things like I do, doesn't mean us with these sentiments don't exist. We exist.

There are a LOT of us who hate this nerf, because it means it reduces the chance for our dinos to survive, and less stamina means less travel time in the air, and makes playing this game take LONGER. Another change that tacks on time to our upkeep.

I had to cut off some of the servers I play, because upkeep takes longer now than it used to. Large chunk of time is taken up by the previous flyer nerf, and many of my friends quit official alltogether because of the "fix" to dinos eating during stasis. They too, no longer had time. The upkeep takes up more of their free time than actually enjoying the game.

Wasn't like that before, but Wildcard changed so much, many changes seem microscopic and unimportant by itself, but there is so much change, made upkeep take so much longer, that idk how many people just quit, from lack of time. I lost count how many have quit.

Sure this one change might seem like a molehill, or a single straw... But you have enough molehills, you can make a mountain. And enough straws, you break the camel's back.

 

There's the enjoyable grind....

and then there is a grind that makes the game no longer fun for some of us.

Edited by GreenRoc
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If they had reduced both HP and dmg by 25% instead of the ~60% and 50% respectively, would the people who were complaining about the griffin before not still be rejoicing?

We still don't have any armor or imprinting bonus, unlike every other flier in the game. Yesterday I blue screened and after logging right back in, my 250+ griffin was killed by a lvl 80 wild griffin (there may have been a wild carno involved as well, but still.)

Throw the griffin lovers a bone here, WC. Pretty please with a cherry on top? :D

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2 hours ago, Ascendant said:

Yesterday I blue screened and after logging right back in, my 250+ griffin was killed by a lvl 80 wild griffin (there may have been a wild carno involved as well, but still.)

RIP Griffin. We have a hard time finding high level griffins on our server, so losing a high level one to some blue screen BS would be so frustrating!  Sorry man.

Since the PS4 patch notes don’t indicate the griffin nerf, I thought we would be safe until the next patch at least to still fly around and enjoy them as they were, but when we logged in last night, nope, they’d been nerfed. So frustrated!  We play on our Nitrado server and it looks like there is a way to adjust the tamed dino damage and resistance multipliers for a specific class.  So I can just adjust the Griffin for those multipliers and not have it mess with the other tames.  Gonna mess around with those settings a bit to see if I can at least give them more damage resistance to protect them a little better.  Hopefully WC will give us a saddle or some kinda protection.  

I’ll even add chocolate sauce and whipped cream to the cherry on top WC.  Don’t leave us griffin lovers in the dust.... please?

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23 hours ago, Probitas said:

OK, go find a woodpecker and try to pick it up by hand, and then attempt to argue that it shouldn't be able to do that much damage to you cause you're about 100 times larger. Or better, stand in front of a stooping eagle and argue with gravity that it shouldn't be able to hurt you that much. The ability to do damage is not a function of size in nature, or you boys live very sheltered lives indeed.

Or for land animals, the badger or the wolverine. There is a reason the larger predators give them wide berths.

In RL I hunt, so I would just shoot it with my 12 gauge shotgun and call it a day.

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On 2017-12-16 at 9:19 AM, johnm81 said:

what was your stam before and after?

So stamina wasn't hit as hard as I thought it would be. Not too much difference, but the health nerf was ridiculous. Lost over 50% of the health. So rather than take it for a spin, I just fed my dinos and logged off ark. I will be playing more on aberration and have fun with the rock drake before it too gets nerfed. 

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It seems to me the role of the griffin has been redefined. Before nerf it was god of the skies. Best air to air fighter. Best Air to ground assault. And had the hp pool to make it tanky. Now it seems WC has decided that instead of the op god of the skies, it should be a fragile helicopter/gunship sort of role. Sit at range let driver apply cover fire but unable to tank return fire. 

Pros:

Fastest flier with glide

Shoot from saddle

Decent Stam

No head hitbox

 

Cons:

Fragile (esp sniper fire) 

Weaker Air to air combat

 

Is this a fair assessment?

 

PS: This list is for pvp. I agree with PVErs. They shouldn't have gotten a this nerf.

 

Edited by johnm81

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33 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

I agree with PVErs. They shouldn't have gotten a this nerf.

For PvE HP nerf shouldn't really matter on a flyer - it is still the fastest way of air traveling with hit'n'run attacks that were on the "a bit too powerful" side before the nerf. Now it is more in line with other flyers.

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3 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

For PvE HP nerf shouldn't really matter on a flyer - it is still the fastest way of air traveling with hit'n'run attacks that were on the "a bit too powerful" side before the nerf. Now it is more in line with other flyers.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I am saying who cares....

Its pve. Killing pixels is a victimless crime.

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3 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Still killing pixels in a survival game shouldn't be that easy - a simple concept that many PvErs seem to fail to grasp.

It's not so much the easiness or hardness of it. Once you are at the level that you have Rexes and Griffins, life is fairly easy on PVE. What seems to happen with most nerfs for PVP that end up going to PVE just make the game less fun. It sucks being used to flying an F15 Strike Eagle that overnight gets nerfed into an F4. Sure it was good in it's day, but is nowhere near as fun as the F15

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5 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

Still killing pixels in a survival game shouldn't be that easy - a simple concept that many PvErs seem to fail to grasp.

There's 2 great reasons I can tell you why I refuse to accept that concept and think it's not a valid point to begin with. The first is that in my opinion as far as survival games go this game is simply not that difficult to begin with. Yes players can be extremely unlucky and end up in a supposed easy spot that keeps spawning the big deadly dinos fut for the most part spawns work correctly. There's zero need to have to boil water or worry about salt sickness from ocean water and even eating raw meat is a measly 5-10 point health hit per raw meat eaten. You can barely take 20 steps in any direction anyways without running into berry bushes anyways haha.

Honestly once players stop being noobs at the game and know a good bit of what they are doing all one really has to do is get 3-4 Raptors or 3-4 Trikes/Stegos or a mixture of the 3 types then right there you are honestly more deadly than any threat the basic maps are going to throw at you in a normal scenario beyond say a high level Rex or a fairly rare high level Alpha Carno or Alpha Rex. Even with normal Carnos a surprisingly low number of starter creatures are enough to overwhelm the derpy things. 

There's quite a few smart ways plenty of players use the building materials to make this game a cakewalk too. It's no secret that many players love building taming pens to get rid of any danger to the new pet. Personally I use that method in a bit of an inversed way to tame Allos. Instead of getting them inside I make it large enough that I can be inside it without them being able to bite me. Then just aggro the pack and tranq them and kill the 2 weak ones and tame up the Alpha. Plus, taming rafts. Yes, Leeds made that easy tamer method less popular but people that like that method still figured out ways to negate Leeds do it anyways.

The second reason why people trying to look down on others for daring want an easier time or wanting to play how they actually want is because when you aren't playing on Officials (like when I play single player) Wildcard already chose to give players tons of ways to modify this game to their heart's content. That's the main thing that drew me to this game in the first place and the reason I don't consider the game a complete lost cause. Luckily when changes to stats happen it's easily modifiable, although changing stats in the way WC provided does also change the stats of every dino which is sortof a pain in the butt. At least the options there though. 

Long winded post aside, yeah, I think this game is only as hard as people make it and much like the Souls series people overhype the overall difficulty of this game. This game can easily be a fun struggle to conquer the pixelated wilds and can easily be a cakewalk experience for as long as I've played since mid '16.

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10 hours ago, johnm81 said:

It seems to me the role of the griffin has been redefined. Before nerf it was god of the skies. Best air to air fighter. Best Air to ground assault. And had the hp pool to make it tanky. Now it seems WC has decided that instead of the op god of the skies, it should be a fragile helicopter/gunship sort of role. Sit at range let driver apply cover fire but unable to tank return fire. 

Pros:

Fastest flier with glide

Shoot from saddle

Decent Stam

No head hitbox

 

Cons:

Fragile (esp sniper fire) 

Weaker Air to air combat

 

Is this a fair assessment?

 

PS: This list is for pvp. I agree with PVErs. They shouldn't have gotten a this nerf.

 

As opposed to the alternative: Super at everything?

The thing was OP as hell and needed good nerf. Now a wider variety of dinos will be seen again in the air as opposed to the boring Griffin only approach which until recently was the meta.

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1 hour ago, ForzaProiettile said:

As opposed to the alternative: Super at everything?

The thing was OP as hell and needed good nerf. Now a wider variety of dinos will be seen again in the air as opposed to the boring Griffin only approach which until recently was the meta.

So instead of 1 good flyer (arguably) there will be two good flyers (arguably griffin and wyvern). Yet again WC just nerf the 'problem' into the ground taking the easy way to do it rather than coming up with inventive ways of dealing with a problem or through more minor nerfs , just like they did with the original flyer nerf which was way too over the top. Hope to God the other flyers get some love with the tlc pass, they could do with it. The Griffin has shown us how good flyers could be mechanically wise.

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