Wow this flyer nerf is beyond overkill.

[wildbill]

31 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

It's for both,  fact is, in pve it adds extra time and additional stops outside of base,  thus increasing environment opportunities/encounters.. it's player versus environment, not base and resource sim..

I keep hearing this "increasing environment opportunities/encounters". Not sure who started that and why I haven't seen this statement questioned.

Going to call this bullpoop right now. Say I spend maybe 2 hours every day playing ARK. That is two hours in PVE in the environment. Slow down the speed of everything I do by 1/2. I'm not going to now spend 4 hour in the environment. I'm still going to only play 2 hours, I'm just going to get 1/2 as much done. 1/2 the resources collected, 1/2 the dinos tamed, 1/2 the building done. 1/2 the crafting of stuff. Also 1/2 as much fun. Pretty pointless, when I play to have fun.

Yes when flying, I would land twice as often, but really, if you can't pick a safe spot to land, you got to be a real noob. Maybe for me this just doesn't apply, which is why I think it is a really bad argument. I have over 4000 of game time in ARK.

[BeardO]

26 minutes ago, wildbill said:

I keep hearing this "increasing environment opportunities/encounters". Not sure who started that and why I haven't seen this statement questioned.

Going to call this bullpoop right now. Say I spend maybe 2 hours every day playing ARK. That is two hours in PVE in the environment. Slow down the speed of everything I do by 1/2. I'm not going to now spend 4 hour in the environment. I'm still going to only play 2 hours, I'm just going to get 1/2 as much done. 1/2 the resources collected, 1/2 the dinos tamed, 1/2 the building done. 1/2 the crafting of stuff. Also 1/2 as much fun. Pretty pointless, when I play to have fun.

Yes when flying, I would land twice as often, but really, if you can't pick a safe spot to land, you got to be a real noob. Maybe for me this just doesn't apply, which is why I think it is a really bad argument. I have over 4000 of game time in ARK.

 

Agree, there is no real danger in landing more often as long as you aren't completely stupid and A) don't watch your stam level and start looking for a place to recoup at 50% B) don't even look on the ground before landing.  So just takes longer to do things.

But I understand why they did it, and it had nothing to do with flyers being to OP or being used too much (regardless of what they say).  It was they couldn't get the netcode to update flyer position between the client and the server fast enough to be accurate which was causing issues with targeting even of auto-turrets which should never miss not to mention desync issued causing screen hitches as you flew.

[SuperGenki]

15 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

It's for both,  fact is, in pve it adds extra time and additional stops outside of base,  thus increasing environment opportunities/encounters.. it's player versus environment, not base and resource sim..

What ever the rationale, for me it's an unwanted change. Having to land my Quetz and slowly regain stam has not increased my 'vs environment' experience in the least. Fun factor though has plummeted. There is actually a very short list of dinos I would be actually panicked to land on (Giga, Alpha Rex/Carno). Everything else can be casually left clicked into oblivion, which is an actual problem with 'vs environment'.

There were/are obvious imbalances with flyers (one being that they fly). For someone to say these imbalances were more present in PVP is not a fallacy.

[SuperGenki]

31 minutes ago, wildbill said:

I keep hearing this "increasing environment opportunities/encounters". Not sure who started that

The dev statement was that they always wanted flyers this way because they "trivialized" like 80% of the environment...not a direct quote ;).

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

29 minutes ago, SuperGenki said:

What ever the rationale, for me it's an unwanted change. Having to land my Quetz and slowly regain stam has not increased my 'vs environment' experience in the least. Fun factor though has plummeted. There is actually a very short list of dinos I would be actually panicked to land on (Giga, Alpha Rex/Carno). Everything else can be casually left clicked into oblivion, which is an actual problem with 'vs environment'.

There were/are obvious imbalances with flyers (one being that they fly). For someone to say these imbalances were more present in PVP is not a fallacy.

Just because it's tedium to clear spawns doesn't mean you are exempt from it, and you do have to clear them if they aggro to you.. why don't you not attack them and watch your tame potentially die before it can take off.. and landing your quetz and having to left click IS an environment encounter, that's inarguably true.. 

[YUSHOETMI]

1 hour ago, wildbill said:

Well 80% of content is still useless. And now the 20% that is useful is not as useful as it used to be.

Show us the quote of where they said this was aimed at PvE. I guess I'm one of those that don't remember this. 90% of the changes made to ARK are to balance PvP (my estimate), seems unlikely this one huge change is the one change directed at PvE.

Even if they did say this, doesn't make sense as most PVE players are on unofficial servers where the flyer nerf is irrelevant, so how could it be directed at them?

Have a search you will eventually find it. It went along the lines of 80% of the game is trivialised due to flyers being overused, in the most case with pve as all you essentially needed was a quetz for just about everything. Pteras where nerfed for PvP for a number of reasons, they became op, the raid meta basically became who had the highest amount of high level pteras, and the speed they could achieve was breaking the game. 

Both game modes needed it but the statement basically says that pve was the deciding factor in doing it because all over content was being bypassed. If you're lazy enough or stupid enough to still only use flyers then there isn't much they can do about that. 

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

35 minutes ago, BeardO said:

 

Agree, there is no real danger in landing more often as long as you aren't completely stupid and A) don't watch your stam level and start looking for a place to recoup at 50% B) don't even look on the ground before landing.  So just takes longer to do things.

But I understand why they did it, and it had nothing to do with flyers being to OP or being used too much (regardless of what they say).  It was they couldn't get the netcode to update flyer position between the client and the server fast enough to be accurate which was causing issues with targeting even of auto-turrets which should never miss not to mention desync issued causing screen hitches as you flew.

They were easily the go to option for travel/transport/resourcing/war/general meandering around.. idk what your definition of op is but they definately were so.. the issue you stated is also true. 

[YUSHOETMI]

42 minutes ago, SuperGenki said:

What ever the rationale, for me it's an unwanted change. Having to land my Quetz and slowly regain stam has not increased my 'vs environment' experience in the least. Fun factor though has plummeted. There is actually a very short list of dinos I would be actually panicked to land on (Giga, Alpha Rex/Carno). Everything else can be casually left clicked into oblivion, which is an actual problem with 'vs environment'.

There were/are obvious imbalances with flyers (one being that they fly). For someone to say these imbalances were more present in PVP is not a fallacy.

Pre nerf what animal would you have used for killing an alpha Rex? Most probably a ptera

what animal would you have used for continual metal runs coupled with an anky? A quetz

solo tame a giga with a ptera? Hold my beer. 

Outrun a gaggle of wyverns because you stole their egg? Any flyer would do the job

need to collect an underwater drop that's deep? No problem, dive bomb a ptera into the water throwing you down to the depths in less than a second. 

Those are reasons that could be used for both pve and pvp equally. Hell with pvp when centre first dropped we teamed with a tribe to do a raid. We rocked up on 3 gigas and numerous rex's they called us idiots because they all turned up on pteras. 

Flyers weren't op? Hell the only thing they couldn't be used for was caving and that's only because you couldn't squeeze them in there. 

[SuperGenki]

7 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

Just because it's tedium to clear spawns doesn't mean you are exempt from it, and you do have to clear them if they aggro to you.. why don't you not attack them and watch your tame potentially die before it can take off.. and landing your quetz and having to left click IS an environment encounter, that's inarguably true.. 

My point wasn't that I may have to left click spawns, it's that that's all that is required clear them...or I can fly off again and land somewhere else. The Ai is the real downfall of PVE, not the fact that I could fly over them performing a single chore in the multiple of chores the game demands.

[SuperGenki]

1 minute ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Pre nerf what animal would you have used for killing an alpha Rex? Most probably a ptera

what animal would you have used for continual metal runs coupled with an anky? A quetz

solo tame a giga with a ptera? Hold my beer. 

Outrun a gaggle of wyverns because you stole their egg? Any flyer would do the job

need to collect an underwater drop that's deep? No problem, dive bomb a ptera into the water throwing you down to the depths in less than a second. 

Those are reasons that could be used for both pve and pvp equally. Hell with pvp when centre first dropped we teamed with a tribe to do a raid. We rocked up on 3 gigas and numerous rex's they called us idiots because they all turned up on pteras. 

Flyers weren't op? Hell the only thing they couldn't be used for was caving and that's only because you couldn't squeeze them in there. 

No. Argent is my spirit dino ;).

Yes, harvest metal with a Quetz and I still use Quetz. Only now it's decidedly less fun. Game play is important for me because as you might know Ark is a game.

Argent and Scorp for my solo tame of Quetz. Was hands down the hardest thing I've ever done in Ark with Official lag and 50-50 bugs and what-not.

Yes, Argent/Ptera was the meta for collecting eggs. Not sure why they shouldn't be.

Have never used Ptera to collect underwater drops...guess I'm uncreative :(. Wouldn't you just get dismounted??

Right. I said there were imbalances with flyers, just that they effected PVP in particular.  You could use them in certain caves (upper south), but now that's patched also.

 

 

[Palenor]

Been playing on PC and Xbox for a long time now.

One thing I remember distinctly, even from almost two years ago, when I tamed my first Ptera. 'Wow, this game just got very easy', And that was well before the higher levels of 120 or 150 or even breeding. So I was running around on a level 80 meat tamed Ptera thinking it made the game too easy. back then.

Fast forward to the so called flyer nerf, they are still faster better stronger than they were back then. Everyone just got used to them being faster etc. and it just seems so extreme.

Same thing was said/thought when they implemented the first great dino "Nerf" and greatly reduced Dino damage. Nowadays, absolutely no complaints about that rebalancing.

The flyers are just fine, in my opinion, you would still say 'Wow, this game just got very easy' if you tamed a flyer for the first time ever.

[BeardO]

30 minutes ago, Palenor said:

Been playing on PC and Xbox for a long time now.

One thing I remember distinctly, even from almost two years ago, when I tamed my first Ptera. 'Wow, this game just got very easy', And that was well before the higher levels of 120 or 150 or even breeding. So I was running around on a level 80 meat tamed Ptera thinking it made the game too easy. back then.

Fast forward to the so called flyer nerf, they are still faster better stronger than they were back then. Everyone just got used to them being faster etc. and it just seems so extreme.

Same thing was said/thought when they implemented the first great dino "Nerf" and greatly reduced Dino damage. Nowadays, absolutely no complaints about that rebalancing.

The flyers are just fine, in my opinion, you would still say 'Wow, this game just got very easy' if you tamed a flyer for the first time ever.

The dino nerf that cut health and damage across the board from tames was needed as the game WAS too easy once you started taming anything.  The flyer nerf just slowed an already slow game down further.  Nerfing stam would have been fine by me if they wanted to make you land more to face the ground.  But the speed reduction just slowed the game down, didn't make it any easier or harder.

[Shrekasaurus]

6 hours ago, lvirusl said:

I don't like griffins either or ragnarok's release as a whole but that's another topic for a different thread. And sabertooths make a lot more sense since they were real and also alive around the same time.

3

Absolutely not! Sabertoothed cats lived Millions of years after dinosaurs. Some species, like Smilodon Fatalis, lived with people! I think your time scale is a little off. Ark was never supposed to be a strict dinosaur game, the Devs have always said that mythical creatures would be added. I thought you would guess from the sight of GIANT ALIEN OBELISKS that this isn't a primeval world. Plus, all the dinosaurs/creatures that actually existed are made up species. There was never a Tyrannosaurus Dominium in real life! All the Arks animals are specially adapted/genetically engineered to their crazy environment, an environment, unlike anything that has actually existed. Reading the "Explorer Notes" would help you build your understanding of the weird wildlife. 

[Dezes1]

On 7/25/2017 at 8:56 PM, ciabattaroll said:

But speed is the only stat that was locked away on flyers. So on the race between Argent A and Argent B, it's a matter of which Argent has more stamina to spare. Flyers just changed their races from sprints to marathons.

Not gonna debate that other than the fact that stamina was never locked and who might run out of gas first has always been part of the game play.

[wildbill]

3 hours ago, Palenor said:

Been playing on PC and Xbox for a long time now.

One thing I remember distinctly, even from almost two years ago, when I tamed my first Ptera. 'Wow, this game just got very easy', And that was well before the higher levels of 120 or 150 or even breeding. So I was running around on a level 80 meat tamed Ptera thinking it made the game too easy. back then.

Fast forward to the so called flyer nerf, they are still faster better stronger than they were back then. Everyone just got used to them being faster etc. and it just seems so extreme.

Same thing was said/thought when they implemented the first great dino "Nerf" and greatly reduced Dino damage. Nowadays, absolutely no complaints about that rebalancing.

The flyers are just fine, in my opinion, you would still say 'Wow, this game just got very easy' if you tamed a flyer for the first time ever.

Two reasons the first great dino "Nerf" isn't talked about much. First, it was partially undone shortly after in addition to adding ini settings to undo it. Second, nearly every unofficial server used those ini settings to undo the nerf and have ever since.

So all those that were very annoyed either moved off official to unofficial or had the settings undone on an unofficial server. So essentially there is no great dino nerf.

The flyer nerf would probably also stop being discussed if WC would just add some ini settings to undo it. Even though there are mods, most of them have unintended side effects that keep you from forgetting about how annoying the flyer nerf really is. Also XBox and PS servers could undo the flyer nerf too.

[Clewx]

If you own a Wyvern can you answer this question for me? Did you manage to get a Wyvern egg? If you managed to do it, how? And don't you dare tell me you did it without a flyer because I know dang well you most likely did. Is it even possible to gain a Wyvern egg with how slow the flyers are now? You minus well just call the Wyvern Nest a death pit at this point, because once you step in, there is no stepping out... thanks to the flyer nerf. 

[ciabattaroll]

19 minutes ago, Clewx said:

If you own a Wyvern can you answer this question for me? Did you manage to get a Wyvern egg? If you managed to do it, how? And don't you dare tell me you did it without a flyer because I know dang well you most likely did. Is it even possible to gain a Wyvern egg with how slow the flyers are now? You minus well just call the Wyvern Nest a death pit at this point, because once you step in, there is no stepping out... thanks to the flyer nerf. 

It can be done without a flyer.

[Extraterrestrial]

14 hours ago, AngrySaltire said:

This. My usless fact of the day, T rexs lived in a time period closer to watching a Justin Beiber concert than they did to being able to munch a stego. 

Now now, children, to quote the honest trailer voice-over guy, this is "Turok Online"

Though, personally I like to think of it as "Dinotopia Online"

[LilNastyGurl]

3 hours ago, Extraterrestrial said:

Now now, children, to quote the honest trailer voice-over guy, this is "Turok Online"

Though, personally I like to think of it as "Dinotopia Online"

ARK feels like its own thing really.

Even though they -borrowed- the JP Dilo and the Dinotopia Giga and a bunch of other elements. THATS RIGHT CIABATTA ITS BEEN 7 MONTHS SINCE MY LAST DT REFERENCE SO ITS FINE TO TALK ABOUT AGAIN

Aside from that, yeah, ARK has its own special subspecies (even down to the metal-breaking ankylo) and the downright insane Titanosaur (I tried to measure it in humans, making their default body length 6feet, and the Titanosaur is roughly 105 people long, or 630 feet long. That thing is god damn big. Bigger than Amphicoelias.

[Extraterrestrial]

4 minutes ago, LilNastyGurl said:

ARK feels like its own thing really.

Even though they -borrowed- the JP Dilo and the Dinotopia Giga and a bunch of other elements. THATS RIGHT CIABATTA ITS BEEN 7 MONTHS SINCE MY LAST DT REFERENCE SO ITS FINE TO TALK ABOUT AGAIN

Aside from that, yeah, ARK has its own special subspecies (even down to the metal-breaking ankylo) and the downright insane Titanosaur (I tried to measure it in humans, making their default body length 6feet, and the Titanosaur is roughly 105 people long, or 630 feet long. That thing is god damn big. Bigger than Amphicoelias.

Eh.. I only said that to be funny, but Ark takes inspiration from more than just jurassic park and dinotopia, there's also Cadillacs and dinosaurs, Dinotopia, Dino Riders, Terranova, Turok, and The land of the lost, just to name a few. But you're right, it has more than enough to make it it's own thing. I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who remembers these great shows and comics that most have forgotten with time.

[Griffin1984]

19 hours ago, lvirusl said:

 And sabertooths make a lot more sense since they were real and also alive around the same time.

LMAO yeah there is only a couple of 100million years time difference between the saber and the dimetrodon, it's approximately the same time, 

[St1ckyBandit]

43 minutes ago, Extraterrestrial said:

Eh.. I only said that to be funny, but Ark takes inspiration from more than just jurassic park and dinotopia, there's also Cadillacs and dinosaurs, Dinotopia, Dino Riders, Terranova, Turok, and The land of the lost, just to name a few. But you're right, it has more than enough to make it it's own thing. I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who remembers these great shows and comics that most have forgotten with time.

Dino crisis was a good game

[Pogue1995]

RT. Mk 3 Flyer patch is needed. Every flyer bar the Quetz is useless ever since the Griffin was released. Extremely unbalanced and this close to release this game is a absolute mess. Wake up Devs!

[YUSHOETMI]

27 minutes ago, Pogue1995 said:

RT. Mk 3 Flyer patch is needed. Every flyer bar the Quetz is useless ever since the Griffin was released. Extremely unbalanced and this close to release this game is a absolute mess. Wake up Devs!

I have no idea what game you are playing but the quetz is the only flyer that is close to "useless" and that's only because of its speed and stam, weight wise it is still the dominant flyer for farming vast quantities.

Ptera is useful for scouting, as it should be

Argent is good for fighting anything sub alphas/gigas/titans and mid level hauling

Wyvern is good for defense and mid-high haulage

 

My high level Ptera/Argents can fly from one side of the map to the other without landing, with a couple of sprints between.  People just wanna be able to full sprint the whole map and back again like the old days, never gonna happen.

[10,000 Jelly Doughnuts]

1 minute ago, YUSHOETMI said:

I have no idea what game you are playing but the quetz is the only flyer that is close to "useless" and that's only because of its speed and stam, weight wise it is still the dominant flyer for farming vast quantities.

Ptera is useful for scouting, as it should be

Argent is good for fighting sub alphas/gigas/titans and mid level hauling

Wyvern is good for defense and mid-high haulage

 

My high level Ptera/Argents can fly from one side of the map to the other without landing, with a couple of sprints between.  People just wanna be able to full sprint the whole map and back again like the old days, never gonna happen.

And the moth?