Movement Speed Changes in ASA

[wildbill]

On 9/30/2023 at 10:26 AM, Dinorancher said:

Does this mean that the useless speed stat is going to be removed and I will no longer have to wrestle with wasted speed points when starting a breeding line? Please say yes.

So not just tames, player too: "Disabled leveling of movement speed on creatures and players on Official Network (Unofficials can change this via config, of course)"

Honestly, this is typical of how ARK balances game play. Balance out PvP by removing movement speed leveling, but force it onto the PvE players that most likely don't want this change.

Personally, I don't care as I'll never play on officials and 95% of all unofficial PvE servers (what I play) will enable the movement speed in the config for the server.

[St1ckyBandit]

On 9/30/2023 at 12:55 PM, Joebl0w13 said:

Good riddance. It's silly that you can level up movement speed to the point nothing is a threat anymore. It's a good decision. 

Couldn't agree more. While having fast land and water animals was fun, player movement speed just made human vs human PvP dumb imo.

Like you mentioned, its a great PvE change as well. Now you cant note run and in 5 minutes already have to capability to avoid any animal in the game.

WC knocked it out of the park on this one.

[acat]

I have heard people say that the base movement speed might get raised for characters. Assuming that is indeed planned, it is a different situation for many of the complainers i guess. Yes, build variety would still be limited, but many asked for a cap instead of complete removal, and it would kinda be a cap, plus the points to reach that cap given to you for free by default. A bit of a nerf and a buff at the same time. Just specualting tho, we will see what happens.

[Pipinghot]

37 minutes ago, acat said:

I have heard people say that the base movement speed might get raised for characters.

People may have said it but (as far as I know) WildCard has not. That sounds like it's probably wishful thinking that has nothing do with WC's plans.

37 minutes ago, acat said:

Assuming that is indeed planned, it is a different situation for many of the complainers i guess.

We should assume it's not, unless WC publishes a statement about it.

37 minutes ago, acat said:

Just specualting tho, we will see what happens.

Agreed.

 

[TankinTBone]

On 10/2/2023 at 9:12 PM, St1ckyBandit said:

Couldn't agree more. While having fast land and water animals was fun, player movement speed just made human vs human PvP dumb imo.

Like you mentioned, its a great PvE change as well. Now you cant note run and in 5 minutes already have to capability to avoid any animal in the game.

WC knocked it out of the park on this one.

It didnt make pvp dumb it actually dumbs down pvp making the cap 100 percent bad imo and it does not change much of the already big problem that I see, I could understand it being messed up because of a pvp player with a lot of move speed and  good set of pvp gear bullying bobs in a stone hut, but there isnt generally a purpose for that, its mainly just people who ruin games anyways and how they think . it does help with rushing caves but they definitely could have nerfed it another way instead of that. meh whatever they r gonna do what they want. 

[TankinTBone]

you get picked and dropped and parachute u are basically a sitting duck wyverns dmg through armor(im pretty sure), a mana gets you you are done for it will freeze you until the end of time, and not the mention how annoying it will be because most things that want to kill you are going to actually be able to get you this time. 

[Joebl0w13]

21 minutes ago, TankinTBone said:

most things that want to kill you are going to actually be able to get you this time

Now it’s a sport. It’s like it’s a survival game with dinos or something. 

[SunsetErosion]

1 hour ago, TankinTBone said:

It didnt make pvp dumb it actually dumbs down pvp making the cap 100 percent bad imo and it does not change much of the already big problem that I see, I could understand it being messed up because of a pvp player with a lot of move speed and  good set of pvp gear bullying bobs in a stone hut, but there isnt generally a purpose for that, its mainly just people who ruin games anyways and how they think . it does help with rushing caves but they definitely could have nerfed it another way instead of that. meh whatever they r gonna do what they want. 

What I fear is that the game will be a lot more repetitive. Without cryos now. Just getting a drop could be a real struggle. So its going to be really anoying to have to deal with those Raptors, then Sabers etc every time you want to get a drop for example. Since you cant hop off your flyer run fast, grab loot and get out...
Every Raptor, Sarco you are going to have to kill. Especially if tamed dinos cant outrun their wild counterparts... Maybe the surviving-realism aspect gets better, but the fun bar could quickly deplete...

Edit: Also for new people that cannot properly deal with wildlife yet, because they cant outrun it etc will have a big problem when more developped players are on the same ground. Then the new player will have a PvPvE combat, and the more developped player can just focus on PvP.

Edited October 4, 2023 by SunsetErosion

[TankinTBone]

1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Now it’s a sport. It’s like it’s a survival game with dinos or something. 

its almsot like this isnt gonna effect the big tribes because they will be safe breeding while the solo it gonna get scrweded because yall dont care mr volunteer

[TankinTBone]

36 minutes ago, SunsetErosion said:

What I fear is that the game will be a lot more repetitive. Without cryos now. Just getting a drop could be a real struggle. So its going to be really anoying to have to deal with those Raptors, then Sabers etc every time you want to get a drop for example. Since you cant hop off your flyer run fast, grab loot and get out...
Every Raptor, Sarco you are going to have to kill. Especially if tamed dinos cant outrun their wild counterparts... Maybe the surviving-realism aspect gets better, but the fun bar could quickly deplete...

Edit: Also for new people that cannot properly deal with wildlife yet, because they cant outrun it etc will have a big problem when more developped players are on the same ground. Then the new player will have a PvPvE combat, and the more developped player can just focus on PvP.

well it depends raptor u can bola and sarco u can kite it out as long as ur not in water but still its the inconvenience of it, it relys on dinos which can be good but i see the bad in it for someone like me and i wil defend that obviously map spawns are usually decent for taming ur first flyer which is good but 100 percent movement speed is slow as dirt , cryos are kind of meh, the thing is they should have replaced the cryos in a way without having them if they arnt going to have them so you can live in caves and other places or some sort of dinos transport, its really a bit of a joke . They could have already done that but i dont see it yet obviously the only state of the game i see is the game i still played on ark survivial evolved. I dont see how its worth to live in a good spot hidden and be productive, at least right now from what i see, im still gonna buy the game regardless but im aloud to state my truth. 

[St1ckyBandit]

3 hours ago, TankinTBone said:

It didnt make pvp dumb it actually dumbs down pvp making the cap 100 percent bad imo and it does not change much of the already big problem that I see, I could understand it being messed up because of a pvp player with a lot of move speed and  good set of pvp gear bullying bobs in a stone hut, but there isnt generally a purpose for that, its mainly just people who ruin games anyways and how they think . it does help with rushing caves but they definitely could have nerfed it another way instead of that. meh whatever they r gonna do what they want. 

When a guy can run 100mph and its impossible to get a shotgun round onto him because he's basically the flash, yes, it makes the PvP dumb. Human v Human pvp sucked in Ark for the most part, and speed characters contributed a ton to that fact.

Slowing characters down should lead to better gunfights.

It was also way too easy to escape on foot when you got knocked off your mount with a speed character. 

The amount of speed you can achieve in Ark wouldn't work in any other first or third person shooter.

Imagine COD where one guy can move as fast as an Ark character. It breaks the gunplay. Just because Ark wasnt a dedicated FPS or TPS game, doesnt mean it can't have solid gameplay in those aspects.

It was hands down a cheesy mechanic and the game will be much better with this change.

Edited October 4, 2023 by St1ckyBandit

[St1ckyBandit]

3 hours ago, TankinTBone said:

you get picked and dropped and parachute u are basically a sitting duck wyverns dmg through armor(im pretty sure), a mana gets you you are done for it will freeze you until the end of time, and not the mention how annoying it will be because most things that want to kill you are going to actually be able to get you this time. 

Well you lost the aerial battle. Should getting picked have zero consequences? 

To your second point, Ark got way too easy once speed was on your side. You SHOULD be vulnerable with hide armor and a crap bow on an island teeming with frickin dinosaurs. 

Once you work your way up the food chain and start taming dinos, then your survivability increases. It shouldn't artificially increase to the point of being able to get away from literally anything because you ran over a few notes in the first 5 mins of your spawn.

[Joebl0w13]

1 hour ago, TankinTBone said:

its almsot like this isnt gonna effect the big tribes because they will be safe breeding while the solo it gonna get scrweded because yall dont care mr volunteer

Game was never built around the solo player. It's always been harder for them. Nothing's changed there since 2015.

[TankinTBone]

2 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

Well you lost the aerial battle. Should getting picked have zero consequences? 

To your second point, Ark got way too easy once speed was on your side. You SHOULD be vulnerable with hide armor and a crap bow on an island teeming with frickin dinosaurs. 

Once you work your way up the food chain and start taming dinos, then your survivability increases. It shouldn't artificially increase to the point of being able to get away from literally anything because you ran over a few notes in the first 5 mins of your spawn.

whatever were all just a loot box for a bigger tribe to open up

[TankinTBone]

1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Game was never built around the solo player. It's always been harder for them. Nothing's changed there since 2015.

not harder impossible unless u dont sleep and u grind non stop to the point of not enjoying urself or use some bs method. 

[Joebl0w13]

2 minutes ago, TankinTBone said:

not harder impossible unless u dont sleep and u grind non stop to the point of not enjoying urself or use some bs method. 

Plenty of people played solo before Extinction. They survived. 

[Pipinghot]

2 hours ago, TankinTBone said:

whatever...

Translation: Just realized he lost the argument but doesn't want to admit it.

[TankinTBone]

i could believe it cheating wasnt rampant and gen 2 didnt exist. 

[TankinTBone]

9 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Plenty of people played solo before Extinction. They survived. 

but meshing was still a thing if im not wrong

[Gelantious]

As long as we can change it on our own servers then go nuts.

I do understand the reason behind it, but that is only relevant for pvp and low level pve.
Once you're high enough and gotten some gear that you can literally knock a raptor out with your hands then it's just annoying to run slow.
Even more so when doing the daily stuff around the base, don't want to waste any more time that needed.
And with the daily chores in mind I really hope S+ will be converted to ASA, gonna miss the QoL stuff otherwise...

[skeeta]

While there's a little bit of butt hurt going on I do get the impression that, overall, this is seen mostly as a good change.

I'm looking forward to it personally. It'll be nice to tame dinos that have no purpose other than speed for a change and if you really can't handle not feeling ultra safe on an island full of dinosaurs I'm sure you can grab a Pt after a couple of hours and a small note run.

I can't comment on PvP matters. I've never played it and it's never interested me (although I do enable wild dino pickup on my servers) so their worries may be legit but for PvE I welcome this.

[Joebl0w13]

2 minutes ago, skeeta said:

It'll be nice to tame dinos that have no purpose other than speed for a change

A lot of older school dinos with have a resurgence in use. Even though it will only last until all the other maps/OP dinos are re-released. It will be fun for a bit. 

[SunsetErosion]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:28 PM, St1ckyBandit said:

When a guy can run 100mph and its impossible to get a shotgun round onto him because he's basically the flash, yes, it makes the PvP dumb. Human v Human pvp sucked in Ark for the most part, and speed characters contributed a ton to that fact.

Yes, but I cannot find the all conclusive answer. I mean, the PvP without anything other than shooting is hardly there. Its not COD, but if there would be situations where really basic PvP on foot will occur, then the speed leveling to extreme unrealistic values makes it a superhero game or something and it will kill the game-features like bola, melee combat etc.

On 10/3/2023 at 3:12 AM, St1ckyBandit said:

Like you mentioned, its a great PvE change as well. Now you cant note run and in 5 minutes already have to capability to avoid any animal in the game.

I dont think the speed leveling is really the main issue adressing this... The noterun is killing the game in general. Wether you pick 70 levels in Melee, HP or anything, the 70 levels AND engram unlocks are there for you to pick up doing practically nothing, starting from scratch.

On 10/4/2023 at 10:28 PM, St1ckyBandit said:

Slowing characters down should lead to better gunfights.

It was also way too easy to escape on foot when you got knocked off your mount with a speed character. 

The amount of speed you can achieve in Ark wouldn't work in any other first or third person shooter.

Imagine COD where one guy can move as fast as an Ark character. It breaks the gunplay. Just because Ark wasnt a dedicated FPS or TPS game, doesnt mean it can't have solid gameplay in those aspects.

Yes again, for PvP it could help bring the Oldschool trailer, where the Rex breaks through the gate and starts attacking a camp, to life. But its not the only thing to need changes to archieve this... Again its not COD... Beeing slow on foot will mean really easy target for Strong late-game-tames. As the game is now, the speed is the only thing that can make an on foot player be a threat of any kind to a player with a Fast group of Barrys/Allos or whatever. Especially if those dinos have a few good mutations in HP and so. A wild Rex has 1k base HP, breeding in a few mutations and leveling them, will give them 20k hp easily. THATS a difference I also do not approve off... So killing movementspeed totally, it could kill the groundplay alltogether again. I plead for Softcaps again so the huge gap in dino-player threats can be limited by player choises.

On 10/4/2023 at 10:28 PM, St1ckyBandit said:

It was hands down a cheesy mechanic and the game will be much better with this change.

PvP wise yes, very many aspects that make it that. PvE and Singleplayer... Hmmm.
Yes like I sayd, you shouldnt ever be able to outrun big cats on foot. But for the PvE-ascpect and especially in SP, removing speed on dinos in particular sounds too much to me...

On 10/4/2023 at 10:57 PM, Joebl0w13 said:

Game was never built around the solo player. It's always been harder for them. Nothing's changed there since 2015.

On 10/5/2023 at 12:54 AM, TankinTBone said:

not harder impossible unless u dont sleep and u grind non stop to the point of not enjoying urself or use some bs method. 

On 10/5/2023 at 12:58 AM, Joebl0w13 said:

Plenty of people played solo before Extinction. They survived. 

I played Hardcore on !Official! in Early acces/Early release days.
I made it through all Island Bosses in the end... It took me like 3 years, because everything needed a lot of focus and prepping and it was a really small community so every breeding and mutating had to be done by myself...
Yes, I think Extinction would have been really next level, Aberration, impossible maybe, but who knows..
And Yes, the ridicule speed leveling during early acces and speed in general, later on, made it a LOT easier, covering up a lot of noob mistakes... But I think in the end I could have done it without the speed if I would have changed my focus on other backup feats other than speed...

4 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

A lot of older school dinos with have a resurgence in use. Even though it will only last until all the other maps/OP dinos are re-released. It will be fun for a bit. 

In the end we all dont know what the effects are going to be like. Some unknown or overlooked effects could make the game worse overall. But "limiting" speed is a good thing, yes. Only thing I dont understand is that the game has been early acces before for years. They made desisions back then. Why think those choises werent particulary rightious? Lost/forgotten conviction/arguments at development meetings?
This game in my opinion has a huge playerbase in comparisson to other survival games. So the motvation "This games PvP sucks!" is a somewhat false paradox. 
Besides that the game is played anyhow, even when the appearantly false choises about gameplay, make it one of the best played games with a huge survival ascpect...
Now the game enters early acces again, yes some gameplay changes make it so that adjustments have to be made. But I dont want them to mess around too much. I want to have some kind of game-play stability even when "early acces". I think they shouldnt try to re-invent the wheel... This game is on they desk for like almost 10 years...

Edited October 6, 2023 by SunsetErosion

[St1ckyBandit]

Oops

Edited October 6, 2023 by St1ckyBandit

[St1ckyBandit]

6 hours ago, SunsetErosion said:

Yes, but I cannot find the all conclusive answer. I mean, the PvP without anything other than shooting is hardly there. Its not COD, but if there would be situations where really basic PvP on foot will occur, then the speed leveling to extreme unrealistic values makes it a superhero game or something and it will kill the game-features like bola, melee combat etc.

I dont think the speed leveling is really the main issue adressing this... The noterun is killing the game in general. Wether you pick 70 levels in Melee, HP or anything, the 70 levels AND engram unlocks are there for you to pick up doing practically nothing, starting from scratch.

Yes again, for PvP it could help bring the Oldschool trailer, where the Rex breaks through the gate and starts attacking a camp, to life. But its not the only thing to need changes to archieve this... Again its not COD... Beeing slow on foot will mean really easy target for Strong late-game-tames. As the game is now, the speed is the only thing that can make an on foot player be a threat of any kind to a player with a Fast group of Barrys/Allos or whatever. Especially if those dinos have a few good mutations in HP and so. A wild Rex has 1k base HP, breeding in a few mutations and leveling them, will give them 20k hp easily. THATS a difference I also do not approve off... So killing movementspeed totally, it could kill the groundplay alltogether again. I plead for Softcaps again so the huge gap in dino-player threats can be limited by player choises.

PvP wise yes, very many aspects that make it that. PvE and Singleplayer... Hmmm.
Yes like I sayd, you shouldnt ever be able to outrun big cats on foot. But for the PvE-ascpect and especially in SP, removing speed on dinos in particular sounds too much to me...

I played Hardcore on !Official! in Early acces/Early release days.
I made it through all Island Bosses in the end... It took me like 3 years, because everything needed a lot of focus and prepping and it was a really small community so every breeding and mutating had to be done by myself...
Yes, I think Extinction would have been really next level, Aberration, impossible maybe, but who knows..
And Yes, the ridicule speed leveling during early acces and speed in general, later on, made it a LOT easier, covering up a lot of noob mistakes... But I think in the end I could have done it without the speed if I would have changed my focus on other backup feats other than speed...

In the end we all dont know what the effects are going to be like. Some unknown or overlooked effects could make the game worse overall. But "limiting" speed is a good thing, yes. Only thing I dont understand is that the game has been early acces before for years. They made desisions back then. Why think those choises werent particulary rightious? Lost/forgotten conviction/arguments at development meetings?
This game in my opinion has a huge playerbase in comparisson to other survival games. So the motvation "This games PvP sucks!" is a somewhat false paradox. 
Besides that the game is played anyhow, even when the appearantly false choises about gameplay, make it one of the best played games with a huge survival ascpect...
Now the game enters early acces again, yes some gameplay changes make it so that adjustments have to be made. But I dont want them to mess around too much. I want to have some kind of game-play stability even when "early acces". I think they shouldnt try to re-invent the wheel... This game is on they desk for like almost 10 years...

Forget COD. Rust is probably a better comparison. The early game bow and arrow/spear fights in Rust are a blast, maybe even more fun than late game gun fights.

In Ark, everyone's got enough speed to pretty much become unhittable. I think with the speed changes we'll see some really fun primitive fighting akin to early game Rust.

I agree about your note run point, it does cheapen the journey to max level. I would only add that pumping speed is the most egregious aspect of power leveling.

A high health or high melee character on foot still loses to the most dangerous level 150 predators, unless they have the absolute top tier shottys or tek rifles, which at that point negate the need for high health or high melee.

In terms of an on-foot player getting smacked by a guy with a pack of Barys or Allos, well, he should. Ark is asymmetrical warfare.

There is of course room to outplay people, but being outmatched that bad shouldn't have a get out of jail free card that speed leveling offers. Net guns can help to offset this a bit.

For singleplayer, I really dont care. Whatever people want to do in their own private games is fine with me. I only play multiplayer, so thats what I focus on because thats when others have the ability to impact your own experience and thus balance becomes crucial. 

Sorry for the double post. Screwed the 1st one up