Foundation Spamming

[Shaliden]

There clearly should be some rules when it comes to this topic, whether it's Ark Survival Ascended or ark 2.

Foundation, Pillar and Safe spamming around the map so anyone who wanted to play the game that it's intended to is unable. It's not fair. We should be able to play and build just a simple base but in this case it's not a part of Ark anymore. You can't play the game if bases are out of the game, and might add that people on servers that are doing it get away with it is a disgrace. If this happens in the next 2 Ark games, well lets be honest. What's the point on buying them if it's just a game for you to just run around in and die then get caged and have (0) defenses. There should be rules to spamming. though it may be difficult, there should be (LIMITATIONS) for how many structures can a person and/or tribe put to use. It makes it fun when you have limits or areas to which you can build in. Otherwise the games may be upgraded but what for? People as well as myself left for this reason.

I hope this Topic gets attention so we all can have fun and not just for the god complex hogs. 

I will believe the next 2 Ark games will be great and I will buy but.. spamming needs to stop. It's the legal equivalent to hackers. 

[acat]

Pve or pvp?

[Pipinghot]

5 hours ago, Shaliden said:

There clearly should be some rules when it comes to this topic, whether it's Ark Survival Ascended or ark 2.

There are rules. Since you don't know that you should look them up.

If people are violating the rules (the actual rules, not what you think the rules should be) then you can submit a support ticket and GM's will look at them to see if they're breaking the rules.

[Thekuervito]

7 hours ago, acat said:

Pve or pvp?

In both this happen

[Yggdrassil]

If you sit and think for a  moment, actually combating spam is difficult to solve, almost everything has a counter and in pve especially pillars are essential to stop all sorts of issues because you are unable to do anything if someone builds in your way.

[Thekuervito]

Well ,i pillar between stego dossier and lava cave in my main server,prevent noobs building and other noobs spawn and get stuck.

But now,newbies use rafts o search corner in middle of pillars to build little houses.

[acat]

2 hours ago, Thekuervito said:

In both this happen

I know, but an answer to the brought up issue depends on what mode is meant.

[wildbill]

37 minutes ago, acat said:

I know, but an answer to the brought up issue depends on what mode is meant.

Most certainly, an official server though.

I like to read posts like this once in awhile to remind me why I will never play on an official server again.

The pillaring is almost always a PvE server. In PvP, you have the normal recourse of raiding the player that did the pillaring. No such luck on PvE.

If possible, play PvE only on a dedicated server. 

The few times I tried it on official, a good part of the players on a PvE server are griefers that probably tried PvP, but just couldn't hack it, so went to the PvE servers to pull their crap on people just trying to have fun, but then get harassed by some joker trying to own the whole server.

[St1ckyBandit]

I'd welcome a structure limit in all gamemodes, especially small tribes pvp.

Spam ruins the look of the game. Its so ugly.

I'm sure there must be some happy middle ground that allows for the freedom to build sizable bases without letting people plop down 500 metal cliff platforms.

[Shaliden]

Pipinghot. I don't need to look up the rules to figure out spamming is ruining new plays fun. They are unplayable. Building a base which is a main part of this game is now gone on most servers because people think they actual own a server.

[wildbill]

7 minutes ago, Shaliden said:

Pipinghot. I don't need to look up the rules to figure out spamming is ruining new plays fun. They are unplayable. Building a base which is a main part of this game is now gone on most servers because people think they actual own a server.

Yes, and you too can own a server if you just don't care about anyone else that might like to player there 😀

This is a thread that has been repeated many times in this forum. It has been debated since you could debate it somewhere. Many solutions have been proposed, a few tried. All to no avail, as the griefer is just smarter and more determined than any game code can be.

Others here have asked you for specifics. Like which platform (PC, XBox, PS5, etc.) and which mode (PvE or PvP). This is because you have different options based on these specifics.

If you play on a PC and play PvE, your best option is to just either rent your own dedicated server or play on one you can find available. I've done both. 

If you are on some other platform than PC, your options are more limited. 

The latest way it seems that Wildcard is going to fix this problem is the ARK Survival Ascended, which will allow consoles to play with PC players. In that case you will be able to play with your console on a dedicated server (also knows as unofficial server) provided on a PC by some of the nicest folks you might meet (people willing to host a server and let you play on it for free). 

[GrumpyBear]

I can give one solid reason to leave that particular area you pictured pillar spammed.  Its the area below my base on gen2, and there's a nice spawn point for ferox, and striders right there.  I didn't block off that area, and people have been moving in there constantly and ruining the spawns, they even put in tek turrets to kill off the good spawns that I liked to tame in that area.

 

You are a new player, you have no clue why player do what they do.  There is more than 1 reason to block off an area from being built upon.   

[Shaliden]

wildbill, You are correct. Kinda inspiring to be honest ahah.

Im not here to argue with anyone but I need options but you have gave me a great idea for when Ascended comes out and even ark 2. And it was pvp on pc on a official server btw lol. 

I can now say that with what you said gave me the idea to host my own server when ascended comes out. Everyone is welcome

[Pipinghot]

9 hours ago, Shaliden said:

Pipinghot. I don't need to look up the rules to figure out spamming is ruining new plays fun. They are unplayable. Building a base which is a main part of this game is now gone on most servers because people think they actual own a server.

Is there a reason you like yelling with big fonts rather than having a real conversation? Using a bigger font doesn't make you more right, it just makes you look silly.

Now, back to the conversation. We've all been new players, we all know what it feels like to join a server that has pillars everywhere. It's something that shouldn't matter to an experienced player, but it's understandable why this is frustrating to a new player. The thing is, every game has aspects of the game that are frustrating to new players because they don't understand the game yet, every game has a learning curve and people should expect that in a multi-player environment there will be things they don't understand about the game.

If you want to learn more about the game you can ask people why pillar spam and foundation spam exist (and yes, there are reasons) but that assumes you're more interested in learning than in simply complaining because you don't understand things yet. So if you want to learn something, go ahead and ask, if you care more about complaining than learning then submit a ticket to support and find out what their response is.

[Pipinghot]

9 hours ago, wildbill said:

This is a thread that has been repeated many times in this forum. It has been debated since you could debate it somewhere. Many solutions have been proposed, a few tried. All to no avail, as the griefer is just smarter and more determined than any game code can be.

WB, you should know by now that there are also legit reasons for pilaring. Sometimes it's griefing, sometimes it's completely legit, the answer depends on the situation and the severity.

[St1ckyBandit]

Thinking about this a bit more, maybe a good solution would be to have a physical build limit in terms of space taken up on the map. Sort of like the camp system from Fallout 76 or the leash system from Ark.

You put a pillar down and you can see a red outline encircling that pillar. Build anything inside, and thats it.

Obviously SP or unofficial can have no build limits.

[darkradeon]

they don't care on fixing spam nor to fix char spawn point killing despite the server having the options to take care at least of the last. The real fact is they never cared about official at all. Good luck with multiplatform and private servers in ASA XD

[Pipinghot]

11 hours ago, Shaliden said:

I can now say that with what you said gave me the idea to host my own server when ascended comes out. Everyone is welcome

As far as I know there is no limit to pillar and foundation spam on PvP because it's PvP - if players don't like other people's pillars, foundations, buildings, tames, funny faces... etc. they can attack the other players and take care of the problem. As long as they're not actually cheating (meshing, duping items, etc.) then they can do whatever they want whether you like it or not.

If you don't like their foundations, destroy them, that's what PvP means. If you don't want to destroy them because you don't want to pick a fight, well that's a valid choice but it's still PvP. Its your choice to attack or not, if you choose to not attack then WC doesn't care, you've made your choice.

11 hours ago, Shaliden said:

I can now say that with what you said gave me the idea to host my own server when ascended comes out. Everyone is welcome

Hosting your own server is a great option. Not only does it give you the opportunity to cultivate a community of people who want to play the same way you do, it gives you the opportunity to see if you like using mods on your server. Mods are a great way to customize the game to be more like how you want to play it.

Just keep in mind that if you try to host a server that's open to the pubic, you're guaranteed going to be spending a good amount of time dealing with cheaters and just as importantly complaints from your players that someone else is cheating and you will have to spend time investigating. If you have a server of people that are all friends then they should be able to work things out among themselves, but the instant that you have strangers playing on your server you are going to be called on to get involved in setting disputes, so if your server is going to be open to the public make darned sure you're going to be able to enjoy playing at the same time you're playing referee between other players.

 

 

[Foefaller]

The only long-term solution to pillar spamming, at least on PvE servers, is GMs and moderation that are able and willing to take action when it happens in an abusive way.

If that doesn't exist on an official server, then you're only option is to find or host a private server that's willing to make the effort. It stinks, but it's the truth.

There isn't an easy rule that would fix the problem without having a loophole or creating more issues for people that play the game legitimately. Don't underestimate the amount of effort a troll will go to in order to get a chuckle over ruining someone's time. I assure you, having witness it from both sides, it is much higher than what people are willing to deal with in order to have fun without bothering anybody.

[wildbill]

8 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

WB, you should know by now that there are also legit reasons for pilaring. Sometimes it's griefing, sometimes it's completely legit, the answer depends on the situation and the severity.

Yes. When I played on an official server, I put pillars around my base and a few other spots too. But having to use pillars just shows the game is not designed correctly. I've played 95% of the time on unofficial servers, 99% of which have a rule of no pillars allowed. If you do you are warned. If you don't stop, you are banned. So really, there is no good reason for pillars other than to protect against a game which doesn't enforce (no pillars) what should be either built into the game or common sense from all players.

[Shaliden]

I may not know everything but I'm not new.   

yes they have reasons but for what? still doesn't change the fact that people cant build and play on official like they wanted to.

1 little ticket will never change things and you guys know it. a thread with massive uproar is what it needs.

[Luizza]

11 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

Thinking about this a bit more, maybe a good solution would be to have a physical build limit in terms of space taken up on the map. Sort of like the camp system from Fallout 76 or the leash system from Ark.

You put a pillar down and you can see a red outline encircling that pillar. Build anything inside, and thats it.

Obviously SP or unofficial can have no build limits.

They've tried this in atlas, they tried a few solutions in Atlas - none worked well, griefers will find a way - and other solutions caused their own problems. In the end they just went back to the ark 'pillar' system 'cos that's the most least griefy way of achieving what players want to achieve.

What they need are more GM's to respond quickly to reports when people pillar to extremes. They do remove spam like the foundation spam pictured above, but 1.) it takes ages 2.) ppl say they will report but never do.

[GrumpyBear]

33 minutes ago, Shaliden said:

Not yelling, and didn't know it was a bigger font. you should know because using caps makes someone yell on screen. just keep in mind thanks.

But back to the main topic.

I may not know everything but I'm not new. please don't assume. And I guess all people do is still defend the structure spamming. Still can't build bases...  

yes they have reasons but for what? still doesn't change the fact that people cant build and play on official like they wanted to.

1 little ticket will never change things and you guys know it. a thread with massive uproar is what it needs.

The game has been out for years now, there has been post after post like this one, and no massive uproar has ever occurred.    Official is open to all, and is first come first serve product.  Its just like if you go to a restaurant, and there's no tables open, first come first serve.   

 

You can easily play on single player or on a private server, any way you want to.  But playing on a public server, with the rules they have set, doesn't let any of us play exactly how we want on officials.  Truthfully - aside from not being able to build where ever we want to, we are able to play the game and do everything that is possible to do in the game otherwise on PVE.  You can build a base, maybe not in the prefect spot for you, but there is tons of open space on PVE servers at this very moment, this is the most ridiculous moment to make the argument that there is nowhere to build.  I'm gliding all over the server I've been playing on this week, and I can't stop finding open space.  There's tons of places to take over on my gen2, center, aberration servers that I have bases on.  The area I gave up on my abberation server has been open for the last 2 months with nobody moving in to take it over.

Its not very logical to assume that we can park our bases wherever we want to on a public server.  That logic would mean 10+ people could all build on the same spot.

[St1ckyBandit]

12 hours ago, Luizza said:

They've tried this in atlas, they tried a few solutions in Atlas - none worked well, griefers will find a way - and other solutions caused their own problems. In the end they just went back to the ark 'pillar' system 'cos that's the most least griefy way of achieving what players want to achieve.

What they need are more GM's to respond quickly to reports when people pillar to extremes. They do remove spam like the foundation spam pictured above, but 1.) it takes ages 2.) ppl say they will report but never do.

I guess the problem I could see with my solution is people creating a million accounts and putting their base pillar down all over the map, but surely that would take much more effort then the current system of pillar spamming, so I still think it would lessen the issue a bit.

I mean literally anything is better then submitting a ticket and dieing of old age before a GM even sniffs it. Not to mention, GMs dont have the best reps in terms of being fair and impartial. 

[Pipinghot]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:39 AM, wildbill said:

Yes. When I played on an official server, I put pillars around my base and a few other spots too. But having to use pillars just shows the game is not designed correctly.

Reasonable people can disagree, and maybe that's where we'll end up after talking, but I suggest for your consideration that the real issue here isn't a failure of game design but rather an unwillingness to spend more money on moderators.

And, to be clear, I'm not criticizing that unwillingness, especially where pilaring is involved. ARK doesn't have a subscription model nor micro-transactions, and that means are an expense (specifically an advertising expense), they don't generate any revenue except for their role to entice people into buying copies of the game. When servers don't generate revenue, any money that is spend on them (including salaries for GM's) is purely an expense on the balance sheets, so there's a financial dis-incentive to provide more GM's. WildCard, instead, relies on the game mechanic of pilars (and only intervening when players complain) to handle land claims. This gives land claims much, much  more flexibility than any land claim system based on pre-assigned plots, plot sizes or number of pieces while at the same time encouraging interaction/diplomacy between players. I understand that some people think they should never have to talk to other players but ARK isn't that kind of game. PvE in ARK is simply not like PvE in WoW (just as one example). The great majority of land claim issues are resolved between players and the pillar system is part of that system.

 On Unofficial servers the server owner can choose any rule set they want as long as they're willing to spend the time required to enforce that set of rules, and the time they spend enforcing rules is time they donate to the function of their servers. If people want to volunteer to enforce rules on their own unofficial servers then more power to them, but that doesn't mean that pilars are intrinsically a failure of game design nor does it mean that WildCard's choice to substitute the pilar game mechanic instead of paying more GM's is necessarily a failure on WC's part.

Again, we can agree to disagree on our reasons, but I don't agree that the pilar mechanic "shows the game is not designed correctly", it's a design that some people like and others don't. Those are subjective feelings, there's nothing objectively "incorrect" about it.

On 4/13/2023 at 11:39 AM, wildbill said:

So really, there is no good reason for pillars other than to protect against a game which doesn't enforce (no pillars) what should be either built into the game or common sense from all players.

There's no such thing as "common sense from all players" because there's no common agreement on how things should work. There are thousand different opinions on how much land someone needs, how close it's ok to build to other players, how bit a base should be for the size of the tribe, how many pieces people should be allowed to use in their base builds, and so on. People join an unofficial server because they already like and agree with the rules that the server owner has declared and will be enforcing. Official servers, on the other hand, are not and can not ever be as homogeneous (and as co-operative) as unofficial servers are. You can't hold official and unofficial servers to the same standards of social agreements or moderation. Official servers are open to anyone, from anywhere, any time, with any set of opinions, there is no such thing as a common set of beliefs about how to play the game on official servers.