Turrets 2: Electric Boogaloo (Or, what are we actually doing?)

[DarthaNyan]

2 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

1 Heavy Turret is capable of the same amount of damage as 4 standard turrets used to. 

except this one is false. 1 Heavy turret does less damage per its load as 4 standard turrets do, nor does it live 4 times longer.

They only explanation for that is that they buffed normal turrets by 18% (WC Promised 20% increase), but based Heavy Turret's damage on old numbers which makes Heavy Turret a bit underwhelming, imo. (Tinfoil hat part) Which also might mean that Heavy Turret has been in the works way before initial announcement about turret limit and WC just wanted/like to create drama around the changes.

[DarthaNyan]

@invincibleqc Instead of facepalming just think about it. It is a classic "whip and carrot" tactic:

- initial change that created a lot of noise (a whip)
- a lot of promises to "solve" the problem
- a new "Heavy Turret" (a carrot) that by itself doesnt "solve" anything, to quell the crowd
- a severe lack of other promised changes (at least in patchnotes) that should have been introduced with that turret to test and give feedback properly (like stego plates nerf, knockback effects, PsX change/rework etc.) went mostly unnoticed by community.

[waterKeeper]

2 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

End result, everything about the new heavy turret is equal to how four standard turrets used to be.  That includes damage, amount of ammo used, ammo capacity, amount of time it can spend firing.

Your farming time for bullets isn't going to increase using Heavy Turrets instead, the length of time your turrets can fire at raiders isn't going to decrease either.

So why is it level 100????

@Crows

 

25 minutes ago, Pallist said:

To me, the real problem is they made a significant change and had the perfect opportunity to balance the game yet half assed it and things are the same or worse depending on how big the base it.

The change was for server performance. There was no gain to balance. But it was the perfect time to address it.

 

It's just lazy development.

 

I agree. Getting to level 100 to "upgrade" your defenses should actually be an upgrade for the player, the one putting in the work, not for the sake of the devs or the servers health.  When you unlock an industrial forge, it's the equivalent of 16 small forges. But the fuel is more efficient. It' better. It makes ark life easier. Heavy turrerts should follow suit. 

 

My honest opinion, the heavy turret should only consume 2 or 3 bullets, not 4,  take your pick wildcard

 

 

I guess the  new turret saves you some micromanagement,  but still, wildcard, you should throw a bit more of a reward and a better sense of progression to the player. You are not acknowledging the players time and effort spent between regular turret and heavy turret.

 

[DarthaNyan]

5 minutes ago, waterKeeper said:

I guess the  new turret saves you some micromanagement,  but still, wildcard, you should throw a bit more of a reward and a better sense of progression to the player. You are not acknowledging the players progression between regular turret and heavy turret.

Technically they do acknowledge progression and provide "reward" in a new way: "new turret requires only 1 turret limit slot instead of 4 - that a huge improvement for player" (c) probably someone in WC who proposed that limit.

[invincibleqc]

3 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

@invincibleqc Instead of facepalming just think about it.

I facepalmed solely for this sentence:

22 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Which also might mean that Heavy Turret has been in the works way before initial announcement about turret limit and WC just wanted/like to create drama around the changes.

Probably why Aberration has been delayed as well; they were too busy orchestrating dramas around the turrets. Make so much sense now that you mention it.

 

[waterKeeper]

1 minute ago, DarthaNyan said:

Technically they do acknowledge progression and provide "reward" in a new way: "new turret requires only 1 turret limit slot instead of 4 - that a huge improvement for player" (c) 

Yeah that's a good point. 

[Ranger1]

2 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

except this one is false. 1 Heavy turret does less damage per its load as 4 standard turrets do

Heya Darth, ahhh, not to put too fine a point on it but that's why I said

4 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

1 Heavy Turret is capable of the same amount of damage as 4 standard turrets used to. 

Emphasis mine. 

I could probably have made that more clear though, sorry for the confusion.

I should probably point out that as these announced changes all came out, cumulatively they summed up as 

1)  A 4X Heavy Turret

2) and a 20% increase to (the then) current turrets.

Both of those changes were in contrast to the capabilities of the old standard turrets, as the new one wasn't out yet.

Now here's hoping I didn't make that confusing again.  

[DarthaNyan]

1 hour ago, Ranger1 said:

I should probably point out that as these announced changes all came out, cumulatively they summed up as 

1)  A 4X Heavy Turret

2) and a 20% increase to (the then) current turrets.

First they announced 20% dmg buff to auto turrets and Tek turrets and increase of slot limit on autoturrets by 50% (where is it btw? that would have allowed for longer base protection) in their crunch and there was no mention of new turret whatsoever.

When they announced "BALANCED" turret players assumed it'll be based of new values (Heavy Turrets are currently designed to be about 4-5x as powerful as a normal turret.) because there is no "+20%" damage to normal turrets mentioned anymore, nor there is any mention of it in patchnotes.

 

Edit: and before you ask whats the point of this post... Overall the whole turret "boogaloo" looks like a rushed and poorly thought out decision that is being handled in a manner not befitting "released" quality product.

[Ranger1]

Darth, at the time "normal" turrets were our old standard turrets.

Yes, I'll agree that perhaps it could have been more clear that they were not only bringing in the heavies (4X normal turret damage), and in addition had decided to also bring in the approximately 20% buff to the then current (normal) turrets at the same time.

Now I'm not trying to yank your chain, it's an easy misunderstanding to have... but it was a misunderstanding.

If you thought they were simply introducing the heavy turrets, the 20% extra damage on the standard turrets should have been a pleasant surprise.  If you thought Heavies would be 4X the boosted turrets that's a pretty clear misunderstanding as the (not yet introduced) boosted turrets could not really be considered "normal"... they weren't even in game at that level yet.

Keep in mind, in that same post you linked they made it pretty clear that they were looking to see if game play suggested that further tweaking and/or additional mechanics would need to be introduced.  So if things don't go well then there is a path forward for players.  Iteration of that nature is a vital component in any long term persistent game world.  It's not a situation where you simply make notes to implement those changes in the next version you decide to develop and sell.  They are changes that are introduced and iterated on during the active life of the game.  Well, that is in any long term persistent game world that hasn't been abandoned by it's developer. 

[Jamage007]

So the heavy turrets use 4x the amount of ammo but do not do 4x the damage. That's just dumb. 3.8x (or whatever it is) is great for smaller raids and stopping people with movement speed sprinting up to your base but against bigger raids of massive tribes with a bunch of bronto's and other soakers it just means your bullets will drain faster. Yes they have can fit 4x the amount of ammo but filling a bunch of mega turrets takes ALOT of bullets and it takes far less time and effort to raise bullet soaker dino's than grind bullets.

The heavy turret WILL not be enough to defend bases with a 200 turret limit let alone a 100 limit. WC still have no idea what they are doing and don't seem to know how official pvp actually works. At least they did kinda listen to the community this time but its still not enough.

[Ranger1]

17 minutes ago, Jamage007 said:

So the heavy turrets use 4x the amount of ammo but do not do 4x the damage. That's just dumb. 3.8x (or whatever it is) is great for smaller raids and stopping people with movement speed sprinting up to your base but against bigger raids of massive tribes with a bunch of bronto's and other soakers it just means your bullets will drain faster. Yes they have can fit 4x the amount of ammo but filling a bunch of mega turrets takes ALOT of bullets and it takes far less time and effort to raise bullet soaker dino's than grind bullets.

The heavy turret WILL not be enough to defend bases with a 200 turret limit let alone a 100 limit. WC still have no idea what they are doing and don't seem to know how official pvp actually works. At least they did kinda listen to the community this time but its still not enough.

Jamange, look up a couple of posts.  They do 4X the damage of the old "normal" turrets as announced.  What is confusing folks a bit is that they also decided to introduce the 20% boost to "normal" turrets.  So you got both, 4X heavy turrets and a 20% boost on the regular turrets instead of just one or the other.  Also 4X ammo capacity means they will continue firing just as long as the old turrets.  Filling them takes just as long as it took to fill 4 normal turrets.

[Jamage007]

3 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

Jamange, look up a couple of posts.  They do 4X the damage of the old "normal" turrets as announced.  What is confusing folks a bit is that they also decided to introduce the 20% boost to "normal" turrets.  So you got both, 4X heavy turrets and a 20% boost on the regular turrets instead of just one or the other.  Also 4X ammo capacity means they will continue firing just as long as the old turrets.  Filling them takes just as long as it took to fill 4 normal turrets.

I'm not confused here I know they do 4x the damage of the old turrets but not 4x the damage of the new buffed turrets yet they still use 4x the ammo so your getting less damage per bullet than in the normal turrets now and that is dumb.

[Zederia]

they're not better, they shoot faster, they drain 4 per shot, they go out MUCH quicker than the other ones, so yea.. how exactly are they better? they do less, they hold less (time), and they shoot faster.

I would be willing to bet you put a heavy and a reg against each other, on the same amount of shots and the reg will last longer

[Bigphule]

I'm still trying to figure this all out so I'm going to ask a few questions and I apologize if they have already been answered and I just missed the answers.  I play on XBox official so I still have a week plus before I actually get to see any of this for myself.  

I have heard that the 10k unit range is roughly 34 Foundations, but I've also seen some players post that it is 64 foundations, has any Dev or WC Representative (mod or other) stated what the player recognized dimensions are?  

Is the 10k units a sphere/dome, or a cube?  I imagine Ark as being built on a grid so to my uneducated mind a cube makes more sense.  

Has anyone created a picture of a what the area would look like, say an screenshot with a superimposed marking of what 10k units looks like?  I imagine someone taking a well known land mark like Herbivore island and marking the area that only 100 turrets would fit.  If something like this exists, where can I find it.  

 

For the new Heavy turret, I've heard on Reddit that people are seeing it only fire when a target gets within 5 foundations, is there any truth to this, and is this working as intended or something that needs to be fixed?

 

Thank you for your time, please don't blast me too much  

[Eli]

3 minutes ago, Bigphule said:

I'm still trying to figure this all out so I'm going to ask a few questions and I apologize if they have already been answered and I just missed the answers.  I play on XBox official so I still have a week plus before I actually get to see any of this for myself.  

I have heard that the 10k unit range is roughly 34 Foundations, but I've also seen some players post that it is 64 foundations, has any Dev or WC Representative (mod or other) stated what the player recognized dimensions are?  

Is the 10k units a sphere/dome, or a cube?  I imagine Ark as being built on a grid so to my uneducated mind a cube makes more sense.  

Has anyone created a picture of a what the area would look like, say an screenshot with a superimposed marking of what 10k units looks like?  I imagine someone taking a well known land mark like Herbivore island and marking the area that only 100 turrets would fit.  If something like this exists, where can I find it.  

 

Thank you for your time, please don't blast me too much  

10k units is 33 foundations and change, which is why people round it up to 34 foundations. The radius is spherical in nature and an image of it can be seen here.

[Bigphule]

1 minute ago, Eli said:

10k units is 33 foundations and change, which is why people round it up to 34 foundations. The radius is spherical in nature and an image of it can be seen here.

Thank you very much for the info.  Any word on the 5 foundation range issue?

[RevLoki]

Did the turret limit go into effect yet?

[Hadoken]

no

[ilidrael]

it was delayed  it will work on aberration straight out tho

[Sharpshot879]

2 reply’s 0 views gg ark forum

[RevLoki]

I would hope so, we probably won't see aberration till next Christmas.

[Pendrodor]

Come one wildcard use your brains for once how do you expect us to defend big bases with 100 turrets in 10k units radius(34foundations) this is totally impossible not even your Heavy turret can change that unless you make it at least 8x more dmg than normal turret so give us increased turret limit at least 300 turrets that is number we could actually be able at least stand a chance against raiders but wtih 100 turrets like 90% of the bases on all PVP servers will get wiped then you will have empty servers with no lag and nobody to buy your damn delay cursed expansions SO THINK BEFORE YOU DO SOMETHING MAYBE ASK PLAYERS ABOUT THEIR OPINIONS BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO MAKE SUCH A DRASTiC CHANGES TO THE CORE OF THE GAME AFTER ALL WE PLAY ON THE SERVERS NOT YOU YOU MAKE THE GAME FOR US NOT FOR YOURSELF 

[Danielnz00]

i know everyones bases are about to get way harder to defend, but there is a positive to this, the days of huge alpha and mega tribes causing relentless stress and anger will drop, with them not able to defend there bases so well, huge bases protecting those cold hearted jack asses will be raidable

 

and for everyone else if you want to be able to still manage this change, limit your base size and build in smarter locations, dont go and drop a base right in the middle of a field , back it into a corner or cave somewhere, direct all 100 turrets in 1 direction instead of 4, smarter building easier defence

 

to the DEVS,  with this change it still brings the actual issue, the reason people build so big,   ..Dino numbers,   kibble is the best thing to tame with, so massive egg bases are required to get that kibble, and breeding the ultimate dino grows numbers of dinos dramatically,  Boss fights , requiring armys of Rexs to kill the bosses requires a base big enough to hold them, so the turret limit to protect them is needed

[Zederia]

2 hours ago, Danielnz00 said:

i know everyones bases are about to get way harder to defend, but there is a positive to this, the days of huge alpha and mega tribes causing relentless stress and anger will drop, with them not able to defend there bases so well, huge bases protecting those cold hearted jack asses will be raidable

5

Oh, you think so? if you really believe that I have some magic beans I can sell you

[Ronson12]

On 03/12/2017 at 9:13 PM, Bigphule said:

I'm still trying to figure this all out so I'm going to ask a few questions and I apologize if they have already been answered and I just missed the answers.  I play on XBox official so I still have a week plus before I actually get to see any of this for myself.  

I have heard that the 10k unit range is roughly 34 Foundations, but I've also seen some players post that it is 64 foundations, has any Dev or WC Representative (mod or other) stated what the player recognized dimensions are?  

Is the 10k units a sphere/dome, or a cube?  I imagine Ark as being built on a grid so to my uneducated mind a cube makes more sense.  

Has anyone created a picture of a what the area would look like, say an screenshot with a superimposed marking of what 10k units looks like?  I imagine someone taking a well known land mark like Herbivore island and marking the area that only 100 turrets would fit.  If something like this exists, where can I find it.  

 

For the new Heavy turret, I've heard on Reddit that people are seeing it only fire when a target gets within 5 foundations, is there any truth to this, and is this working as intended or something that needs to be fixed?

 

Thank you for your time, please don't blast me too much  

P94Til0hzEk skip to 4:00, hes painted the 32 foundation area red and tests 100 mega turrets vs x4 stego