Flyer Nerf v2 will be good or even worst, Jen reaction on Steam

[Awakatanka]

28 minutes ago, kortniechan said:

I would like to know one thing. 
Why are the devs posting on some BS steam forum and not on the OFFICAIL ark forums here?

Because they need to give answers/support from steam.

[ciabattaroll]

6 minutes ago, iAmE said:

This may be the first time I have seen a Moderator post anything that could be considered critical of Wildcard. Good on you, hope you don't lose your moderator position over this. I wouldn't go out of your way to defend Ciabatta though. He's on a bit of a roll, in another thread he basically admitted that Wildcard doesn't have to do anything cuz they already have our money. Just a friendly heads up. 

Y'know, you could finish quoting the rest of that statement, like saying the part where I said "but they still do things anyway". Or you could keep making lies of omission in some silly attempt at trying to assert some sort of internet dominance.

[invincibleqc]

1 hour ago, liavain said:

There will not be a Wipe.

You are playing the game with the "final data".

Check the following video and tell me that official servers doesn't need/won't be wiped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybVFd01EU6Y&feature=youtu.be&t=1493

[Voidstar]

12 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

They're not gonna nerf them more. Now they're gonna start slowly buffing them up until they're balanced. And yeah, leeds is broken. 

sounds good. i was working on sp for some time on doing a raft with auto turrets and species x, i don t even dare to leave shore with it..

[iAmE]

3 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Y'know, you could finish quoting the rest of that statement, like saying the part where I said "but they still do things anyway". Or you could keep making lies of omission in some silly attempt at trying to assert some sort of internet dominance.

It's not a lie of omission. I dislike anyone who thinks along party lines, like you do, particularly when they're in a position of authority, and will inevitably, and likely already have, abused their authority in order to preserve their precious self-opinion. 

 

You think the game is flawless, and the devs can do no wrong. I hate your train of thought as much as I hate people who think the developers should be fired for being incompetent. It triggers me unlike anything else, and when I see you saying "Oh well, they have your money, they don't have to do anything for you, be glad they are", it's even more triggered then normal. 

[invincibleqc]

Anyone else wants some popcorn?

[Voidstar]

Just now, invincibleqc said:

Anyone else wants some popcorn?

how about nachos with salsa/cheese sauce?

[iAmE]

Just now, invincibleqc said:

Anyone else wants some popcorn?

I already went through mine after watching the thousands of QQ topics on this forum, reddit and the steam discussions. I then vomitted all of it back over my desk reading some of the silly things people are saying in defense of the patch. 

[ciabattaroll]

5 minutes ago, iAmE said:

It's not a lie of omission. I dislike anyone who thinks along party lines, like you do, particularly when they're in a position of authority, and will inevitably, and likely already have, abused their authority in order to preserve their precious self-opinion. 

 

You think the game is flawless, and the devs can do no wrong. I hate your train of thought as much as I hate people who think the developers should be fired for being incompetent. 

I never said the game is flawless. In fact not far from that post I informed a person that I don't think they hit the nail on the head with this update at all. Even carefully crafting my words to say that this update is a step in a direction, not that it's the right direction.

What I do dislike though is people stumbling in the dark and making ill informed assumptions because they're in the dark. Hence why I try to bring what much elucidation I can, like iterating TRH's statement on why they wanted to nerf fliers, into a crowd of people that keep thinking "oh these pvp nerfs screwed us pve people over" or vice versa. Or people going "they'll never fix it, this is how things are now!" when history points otherwise.

Go ahead, feel free to look back and try to find any post at any point where I was trying to say that devs do no wrong instead of ones that are telling people that they're lacking the rest of the pieces of the puzzle.

[invincibleqc]

I honestly think that complaining about being for/against the nerfs means nothing if we cannot bring anything constructive to help the devs works with us. I'm pissed about the nerfs, like a lot of people are, but I don't think going at each others because they have different opinion is constructive. I'm sure they have more data than we do on why the nerfs was needed and all I hope is that they adjust and make all aspects of the game viable again finding a balancing between game-modes (PvP/PvE), and give us more options to work with on SE, etc. Anyways, tomorrow being monday, all their team should be at the office and they sure will come with something soon after few hours meeting. Wait and see.

[BobRoss]

All i see here is spoiled people crying when their toys are taken away from them.

the flier nerf was a thing that needed to be done. it was getting out of hand. literally every raid video or ark guide on youtube was about fliers. once you got your first flier everything on the ground except the gatherers becomes trivial and even those dinos only become usefull again once you had your quets. a player without a quetzal but with an argy didnt run his anky to the metal and back, no then took their argy and mined it by hand. Everything was about fliers and that was just wrong.

im not saying the way they implemented it is right. i agree with some things and i disagree with other. Its normal for a nerf to go overkill and hit the worst case scenario. Afterwards they will give small buffs over time until they feel its in the spot its supposed to be. same will happen now with the fliers, they will get small buffs over time until they reach that sweet spot. and this can take months of tweeking here and there so dont expect a major buff in the next major patch.

this game is heading towards beta, this is the time the devs will start optimising and balancing stuff. These forums have been nothing but childish tantrums about inbalance lately and when the devs actually take steps to fix that balance this is what they get? 

As this game heads into beta and closer to full release we will see more nerfs and buffs coming. you can take my word for it. some will be big and some will be small. but please try to react in a constructive way so the devs can alteast do somethign with the critique we give them. just sayin " you guys suck and dont listen and we hate you and im mad" is not giving them a lot of stuff to work with. say what you like, say what you dont like and how YOU would like to see it changed.

[iAmE]

8 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Go ahead, feel free to look back and try to find any post at any point where I was trying to say that devs do no wrong instead of ones that are telling people that they're lacking the rest of the pieces of the puzzle.

The post in question you were sitting there telling everyone that nothing they do or say matters because the devs have their money. For all your "Careful crafting of words", you sure come off as a weasel sometimes. That was the worst of it. You can attempt to obfuscate, but the reality is, just looking at your history and you pretty much do nothing but defend the developers choices and justify them. Usually you don't even offer an opinion either way, but it comes across clearly when you constantly defend the developers and their design choices without offering any criticism of your own.

 

But, like you said. 

2 hours ago, ciabattaroll said:

In fact,were we to get into the absolute technicalities of these things, under the very definitions of early access Wildcard technically is under no obligation to modify any of these changes (as the early access FAQ clearly says these games can and will change as they develop) nor do they ultimately have any obligation to finish their work 

They don't have any obligation to finish their work. It's just "Good business". They already have our money. Who cares what we think. (They demonstrably don't)

[BobRoss]

2 minutes ago, iAmE said:

The post in question you were sitting there telling everyone that nothing they do or say matters because the devs have their money. For all your "Careful crafting of words", you sure come off as a weasel sometimes. That was the worst of it. You can attempt to obfuscate, but the reality is, just looking at your history and you pretty much do nothing but defend the developers choices and justify them. Usually you don't even offer an opinion either way, but it comes across clearly when you constantly defend the developers and their design choices without offering any criticism of your own.

 

But, like you said. 

They don't have any obligation to finish their work. It's just "Good business". They already have our money. Who cares what we think. 

you may not like what he sais but its true, the devs can change their game the way they like or envisioned it. we can agree with their changes or not, ultimately it doesnt matter. if the devs choose to ignore their community and do as they please they will lose customers and lose money. so its wise for them to listen to their community but they do NOT HAVE TO.

as far as the finishing part goes, they dont have to do that either. thats the tricky thing about EA, development of this game can at any moment and without notice stop and never pick up again. its the risk of playing EA.

[ciabattaroll]

Just now, iAmE said:

The post in question you were sitting there telling everyone that nothing they do or say matters because the devs have their money. For all your "Careful crafting of words", you sure come off as a weasel sometimes. That was the worst of it. You can attempt to obfuscate, but the reality is, just looking at your history and you pretty much do nothing but defend the developers choices and justify them. Usually you don't even offer an opinion either way, but it comes across clearly when you constantly defend the developers and their design choices without offering any criticism of your own.

I fail to see how that magically equates to them doing no wrong. Stating that the guidelines of early access allows for developers to get away with so much, that they have no obligations to do anything once they receive your payment, has no way of equating to "devs = gud". If anything pointing out that they have no obligations to do anything past your payment kinda points to the opposite of that, that a developer of an early access game can be as crooked as they want.

Furthermore, in me stating that they don't have to do anything, yet choose to do more as it's "good business" isn't even putting them on a pedestal like you're making it out to be. It's average at best; because a pump and dump kind of business doesn't profit, it just stagnates; and ultimately all businesses are about turning a profit.

So congratulations, you've outed me in saying that the game developers and Wildcard Staff do things that are average at worst. Was that part of your master plan?

[MrDynamicMan]

25 minutes ago, iAmE said:

It's not a lie of omission. I dislike anyone who thinks along party lines, like you do, particularly when they're in a position of authority, and will inevitably, and likely already have, abused their authority in order to preserve their precious self-opinion. 

 

You think the game is flawless, and the devs can do no wrong. I hate your train of thought as much as I hate people who think the developers should be fired for being incompetent. It triggers me unlike anything else, and when I see you saying "Oh well, they have your money, they don't have to do anything for you, be glad they are", it's even more triggered then normal. 

That is one hell of a statement. I have never known any of the mods to abuse their power. I personally have had many disagreements with the mods but they have never abused their power, or seen them abusing their power. If this where a court you'd be liable for slander. 

I don't think the game is flawless. The devs have done wrong before. I hated SE and the leeds is broken. You don't have an argument here, other than "this triggers me." 

[Irkalla]

1 hour ago, GamerPerfection said:

v2 of Flyer Nerf means 2nd Pass, therefore v2 Flyer Nerf =/= More Nerf.

Of course it's not going to get worse. They've clearly nerfed it to worst case scenario, now with v2 i'm sure there will be positive changes.

You all seem to have read that statement with a pre-concluded view that everything being said is going to make flyers even worse than they are now.

not necessarily.  There's more they can nerf, weight, health and damage.  Ark isn't about survival and the devs actions have proven this time and time again.  It's about the grind.   They honestly believe that having to spend days grinding to build a small base makes the game harder.  Besides, read the wording.   "v2 of flyer nerf"  this does not scream buff.  

Most people simply want the option for private servers to change this extremely heavy handed nerf.   I completely agree that flyers were way too fast.   I run a PVE server and had to tell some idiots on my server at one point that enough was enough and that I wouldn't be dealing with anymore 300+ speed Pteras.   But to drop them down to almost base stats and basically tell us to either get the one mod that is nothing but junk,  or deal with it is not a very community friendly move.   Giving us the ini to change it isn't that hard.  

They didn't take into account The Center,  which has places like skull island,  resource rich,  but impossible to get to without a flier.  Nor did they take into account SE where you have to outrun Wyverns.   I run mods on my server,  there's plenty of dangers in the sky and our only hope was to be able to outrun them,  now we can't do that anymore.   So I'm looking at a choice that really isn't a choice at all.  Get a mod that is known to be crappy,  that will probably mess with the other mods I'm running,  or get rid of the mods that require us to be able to outrun them.    I refuse to be forced to play the game how they intend me to play it,  and I shouldn't have to.  Isn't this what allowing mods, and private servers was about? 

Since this patch dropped,  my server has been pretty much empty.   People aren't willing to risk stuff they worked hard to get knowing they're going to lose it.  Before they at least had a chance.

[Sorrelon]

2 hours ago, GEonWAR said:

ARK is our heart and soul, and we want to make it as fun and awesome for everyone as we possibly can. Sometimes that means trying significant changes so we can see where the holes are that need to be fixed to improve. I know often times it's difficult and not super fun. But changes like this are needed as we work towards the final release of ARK and as all of the pieces start fitting together. You are all important voices in the community and we take all of those voices into consideration when making decisions. We appreciate you guys a lot for your continuous feedback and for sticking with us as we go through these change.

Just another proof that devs don't play their own game. I don't see how any of these changes were needed. People were complaining about barrelroll damage, ptera grabs and quetz ramp weigth bug, but instead of fixing those, they made all flyers useless. I can't believe how this retarded patch made it through in-house tests. It doesn't take a genius to predict the uproar caused by making changes to ruin a commonly used playstyle completely, devs have absolutely no foresight, at all. What isn't broken does not need to be fixed, simple as that. If you remove planks from a floating ships hull, you shouldn't be shocked when it starts to sink. 

 

2 hours ago, GEonWAR said:

The Flyer Nerf will stay, flyers won't be as they once were.

Enough said, you all can give up hope on using flyers now, I know I did. Besides, they said a flyer nerf v2, not flyer buff, so they'll make flyers even worse than they already are now. Kinda hard to do though, since the patch already made every single flyer is pretty much useless now. Perhaps they flyer nerf v2 will prevent flyers from laying eggs and take their only use away too.

 

That answer on Steam thread was a pathetic attempt to stop the negative Steam reviews, but it won't work. I can't really talk about PVP since I quit it few months ago, but literally nobody in our official PVE server is happy about the nerf. Most players, including myself, who used to play hours and on, now only log in to feed tamed dinos and reset demolish timers, then just log out. Long time players are leaving the game, but devs and people who defend the nerf are deluding themselves by looking at the current high numbers, which are caused by the influx of new players who bought the game on Steam sale. Once they get bored and leave the game in a few weeks, the dwindling player base will be even more obvious.

[GP]

42 minutes ago, Irkalla said:

not necessarily.  There's more they can nerf, weight, health and damage.  Ark isn't about survival and the devs actions have proven this time and time again.  It's about the grind.   They honestly believe that having to spend days grinding to build a small base makes the game harder.  Besides, read the wording.   "v2 of flyer nerf"  this does not scream buff.

It suggests buffs and improvements if you read the entire thing and keep everything in context.

"The Flyer Nerf will stay, flyers won't be as they once were. However we are certainly throwing around ideas on how to improve things so that they are in the best place they can possibly be for both our vision of the game and player enjoyment and usability." This indicates things will improve upon what they currently are, just that they will not return to exactly what they were.

v2 of Flyer Nerf does not mean things will get worse than they currently are. People need to take a step back, breathe, clear the red mist from their face and read the whole statement again and let it sink in.

[invincibleqc]

18 minutes ago, Sorrelon said:

Just another proof that devs don't play their own game. I don't see how any of these changes were needed. People were complaining about barrelroll damage, ptera grabs and quetz ramp weigth bug, but instead of fixing those, they made all flyers useless.

The speed nerf was "needed" because on PS4, a lot of players were crashing/blue screening due to rendering/unrendering massive bases too fast. Even google searches prove it:

So I guess nerfing fast flyers was easier than fixing the crashes.

[LilNastyGurl]

4 hours ago, ducttapefixeseverything said:

So much for listening to their playerbase. Go ahead, take the health too. It's not like anyone will notice, seeing as how fliers have now been reduced to space taking food drains in everyone's bases. I moved five to the second floor just to get them out of the main room since no one wants to touch them now. It made me physically ill. I felt the same way you would upon seeing your favorite grandparent dying of stage three aggressive cancer having someone help them go to the bathroom. It seriously brought that kind of feeling on me.

Wow you're waaaaaaaaay too invested into a video game to feel like that. That borders on ridiculously fake, or pitifully gross if its real.

4 hours ago, Musketeer said:

How would new players even try all the flyers anyway lol. It's been only 2 days since the update lol. Surely all those new players have wyverns and quetzes now

New players can join tribes that have existed before the sale. They have no idea how dumb Pteras used to be. While yeah, this nerf turned every bird into it's Level 5 counterpart.

[iAmE]

1 hour ago, ciabattaroll said:

I fail to see how that magically equates to them doing no wrong.

No, that would take me going through your posting history and posting everything here. Which would take far too long. I can reference commonly acknowledged fact, which is you unequivocally defend the devs. You almost always have. 

 

1 hour ago, ciabattaroll said:

Stating that the guidelines of early access allows for developers to get away with so much, that they have no obligations to do anything once they receive your payment, has no way of equating to "devs = gud". If anything pointing out that they have no obligations to do anything past your payment kinda points to the opposite of that, that a developer of an early access game can be as crooked as they want.

Ok, so we should be grateful that the developers aren't ripping us off, because it's early access. Ok. I'll take that into consideration. The reason that statement is so bloody annoying is that you used to to respond to someone in a thread about how bad this update is. Along with statements to the color of "Ark doesn't care if you quit". 

You basically told someone that they don't matter, because the devs already have their money. Then went on to say that what we think doesn't matter because Wildcard isn't obligated to do anything, and we should be grateful they're taking our feedback at all. I mean. Really now?

1 hour ago, ciabattaroll said:

 

Furthermore, in me stating that they don't have to do anything, yet choose to do more as it's "good business" isn't even putting them on a pedestal like you're making it out to be. It's average at best; because a pump and dump kind of business doesn't profit, it just stagnates; and ultimately all businesses are about turning a profit.

 

 

I don't think that one statement is you putting them on a pedestal. It's the lengths and logical cat traps you go through to attempt to defend the developers in all they do, while, essentially, telling people their opinions don't matter because Ark will survive without them.

1 hour ago, ciabattaroll said:

 

So congratulations, you've outed me in saying that the game developers and Wildcard Staff do things that are average at worst. Was that part of your master plan?

No, my master plan, so to speak, is to express my disdain for someone being, quite frankly, a shill. Everywhere. 

29 minutes ago, GamerPerfection said:

It suggests buffs and improvements if you read the entire thing and keep everything in context.

"The Flyer Nerf will stay, flyers won't be as they once were. However we are certainly throwing around ideas on how to improve things so that they are in the best place they can possibly be for both our vision of the game and player enjoyment and usability." This indicates things will improve upon what they currently are, just that they will not return to exactly what they were.

v2 of Flyer Nerf does not mean things will get worse than they currently are. People need to take a step back, breathe, clear the red mist from their face and read the whole statement again and let it sink in.

But better. For who. As demonstrated my multiple patches, and statements, this game is their vision, made for them, by them. Not ours. For all we know, in their vision, making it better involves another 50% speed nerf, and before you call me "Crazy", I have to point out My Wyvern can't catch a turtle if it swims . The devs aren't predictable, or reasonable right now. 

 

 

1 hour ago, MrDynamicMan said:

That is one hell of a statement. I have never known any of the mods to abuse their power. I personally have had many disagreements with the mods but they have never abused their power, or seen them abusing their power. If this where a court you'd be liable for slander. 

I don't think the game is flawless. The devs have done wrong before. I hated SE and the leeds is broken. You don't have an argument here, other than "this triggers me." 

If this was court, we'd all be dead for various reasons. It isn't really Slander, it's pretty common opinion of people on Reddit and Steam Discussions. I'll admit it has improved, but this forum had a nasty reputation, for good reason, for mods banning and deleting threads critical of Wildcard, for a good run of months when the forums first came up. After that, I wasn't really speaking to mods abusing their power in general, I was speaking to the fact that the person in question posts along party lines. WC can do no wrong, and everything they do is right. Having people with that kind of viewpoint in a position of authority to suppress dissent, is a common critique for companies and governments, because those people inevitably use their authority to do so. It's a historically acknowledged phenomenon. 

 

As for my argument, which argument are you referring to? My issues with Ciabatta telling people their opinions don't matter because they already paid, my issues with PvP or my issues with Flyers? Because I have plenty of arguments here, and they all trigger me, otherwise I wouldn't be on these forums.

[ciabattaroll]

1 hour ago, MrDynamicMan said:

That is one hell of a statement. I have never known any of the mods to abuse their power. I personally have had many disagreements with the mods but they have never abused their power, or seen them abusing their power. If this where a court you'd be liable for slander. 

I don't think the game is flawless. The devs have done wrong before. I hated SE and the leeds is broken. You don't have an argument here, other than "this triggers me." 

Actually, good ol JJJ would have to make a correction on that.

 

[GhostRSA]

Wow what a weekend! In all my years of gaming (20+ years) have I never seen backlash at updates/patches etc like this. Not even with the server issues WoW experience with the release of the Garrisons and players not being able to play AT ALL not even log in to the servers. A game with 5mil+ player base.

Being in IT/ development myself there are a couple of crucial aspects which needs to be taken in to consideration before releasing anything for public use. Some of those are testing, user feedback, user acceptance testing, etc. Oh and COMMUNICATION!!! Something that is lacking, no barely exists in the WC domain.

Since the flyer nerf was first mentioned in the notes, people have been asking, what does it entail, how will it be done, etc? It only remained at Flyer Nerf and then you wonder WC why players are so salty?

Now I'm not bothered by the nerf as I play on my own dedicated server at home. I can set the gather rates etc as I please and it will not bother anyone but I have spent days trying to get myself in a position on a SE server I host to go through the pain of getting my own wyvern as close to official rates as possible and doing so as a solo player. Now I have to change my plans, disregard all the time I put in with a strategy because this nerf was not tested before hand, or laid out to the community for their commentary.

Being a solo PvE player everything takes longer, now even more so and before some comments come up for me to join servers etc, if all countries had the same infrastructure to allow for great upload and download speeds there would be no need for private dedicated servers would there?

But even though I'm more than willing to abort my plans and try a different approach a lot of other players might not feel the same. So here is a suggestion on how to maybe balance the entire thing for everyone.

1. Add 0.1% per level to a random stat of wild dinos. ex. lvl 1 Ptera will have 100% MS and a lvl 10 will have 101% and lvl 150 will have 115% making higher levels more desirable. Also add speed upgrades back but limited amount of points can be spent towards it. ex 71 additional levels for levelling - so total of 71 point to spend with max of 15 points per stat.

The trick here will be to find the sweet spot for the base MS. So if we think of a Ptera currently at 135% and you find a perfect wild one with 15% on MS you'll have a 150% @ lvl 150. Then add 15 points of MS as it was before and you will still have a decent flyer.

Just my 2c worth.

[GEonWAR]

ARK start loosing players:

1 April [3 PM Local] 41,166

2 April [3 PM Local] 49,222

3 April [3 PM Local] 32,415

After 2 PM [local time] game start picking

Source: http://steamcharts.com/app/346110#48h

[GP]

11 minutes ago, GEonWAR said:

ARK start loosing players:

1 April [3 PM Local] 41,166

2 April [3 PM Local] 49,222

3 April [3 PM Local] 32,415

After 2 PM [local time] game start picking

Source: http://steamcharts.com/app/346110#48h

How is that wavy line any different from previous days, weeks?

It's pretty consistant.