Should PVP Nerfs Effect PVE?

[Thatch]

In some cases it can be overlooked, excuses can be made to say it makes their game more challenging. But the main reason for PVP nerfs is to balance the combat between players. If its brought to everyone's attention that people like using gigas in raids, they get a nerf. If everyone in PVP relies on super fast fliers, quetz dropping turtles on bases to empty turrets, vaults used as protection or ways to block servers from being wiped by foreign tribes, I'd expect a nerf sometime down the line. But every game mode will receive the punishment.

When trolls are dropping wild dinos in bases on PVE, only PVE will get that nerf. People building in caves? disabled on PVE.  most of that is understandable but I only mentioned that to prove that nerfs can be separate.

 

Lets hear some feedback from PVE and single player only survivors. What are your thoughts?

[Jonopeo]

It's ruined the game for many including myself. The flyer nerf was a vicious and unjustified attack on PVE players. I think the developers here forget that people like myself spend countless hours imprinting Dinos on ARK to ensure they're fit for their birth purpose.

If everything in life was meant to be the same speed, then why do we have the Olympics, Ferrari's and differences in motor power. The same concept applies here if we're real.

They have truly displayed their appreciation toward their customer base, who have invested time and money into their inde company and 'EA' game. 

For me, this displays that they will also wipe all servers at their 'Official Launch'

I feel betrayed.

[Mithyk]

Like I've said elsewhere, these flyer nerfs were not just about PvP.  PvE has been endangered for a long time in Ark.  Most experienced players will agree that the game loses most Environmental Challenge after your first decent dino tame, and almost all after your first big dino tame.  Once you've tamed a good flyer, Environmental Challenges almost completly vanish - you're now playing Ark Creative Mode.  These changes were about PvE and part of bringing the Environmental Challenges back to the game as much as they were about PvP issues.

[Thatch]

17 minutes ago, Mithyk said:

Like I've said elsewhere, these flyer nerfs were not just about PvP.  PvE has been endangered for a long time in Ark.  Most experienced players will agree that the game loses most Environmental Challenge after your first decent dino tame, and almost all after your first big dino tame.  Once you've tamed a good flyer, Environmental Challenges almost completly vanish - you're now playing Ark Creative Mode.  These changes were about PvE and part of bringing the Environmental Challenges back to the game as much as they were about PvP issues.

Isn't that why they add new predators? I've been in PVE for over a year and found new challenges with every update. We can't just carry and drop wild animals in a taming pin like they do in pvp. most of the carriers are disabled even on land. Some people build everywhere and cover alot of spawns, it lags so bad its a challenge just to avoid being kicked off the server and coming back to a dead bird. The ocean is full of all kinds of terror with the eel being added as well. Tek tier doesn't serve much of a purpose in pve, I consider it was made for pvp. Its just a cheap excuse to say these changes were added to make it more challenging as if it wasn't already with our disabled features. All the complaints are coming from PVP that cause the nerfs to begin with.

[Thatch]

Even the tuso can't use its core ability in PVE. that's pure garbage.

[Jostabeere]

No.

[Mithyk]

7 minutes ago, Thatch said:

All the complaints are coming from PVP that cause the nerfs to begin with.

That is patently untrue.  Go back to any request for feedback from the devs over the past couple months - PvE is as well representaed as PvP.

[DomiDarko]

36 minutes ago, Mithyk said:

Like I've said elsewhere, these flyer nerfs were not just about PvP.  PvE has been endangered for a long time in Ark.  Most experienced players will agree that the game loses most Environmental Challenge after your first decent dino tame, and almost all after your first big dino tame.  Once you've tamed a good flyer, Environmental Challenges almost completly vanish - you're now playing Ark Creative Mode.  These changes were about PvE and part of bringing the Environmental Challenges back to the game as much as they were about PvP issues.

You're about 50% right. It is true that when you have - like me - an imprinted 352 Rex nothing besides Gigas/Titanos is a challenge. The medium/hard bosses are undoable as a single player/solo tribe without really, really op creatures and that's why I depend so much on flyers. I just don't want to run around and get stuck for hours on the hunt for high level creatures. And at some point Ark becomes boring when you defeated all the bosses, have tek stuff with a lot of element and then it is all about building in creative mode or breed for the best stats/colours you imagine.

Hunting high level creatures & breeding for stats were the last things that kept me playing after all other players on my server left update after update...

[Kaoslion]

I think the dev's will attack this in1 of two ways. Buff the flyers back to where people are mostly happy and can adjust to. Or they will go NOPE! this is how it is and then wipe at launch. 

[Thatch]

35 minutes ago, Mithyk said:

That is patently untrue.  Go back to any request for feedback from the devs over the past couple months - PvE is as well representaed as PvP.

Wrong, no one from PVE complained about plant x on quetz platforms, no one complained about flyers being too fast, stamina too high, c4 attachments, rocket launchers, spikes on rafts, transferring of tames to other servers. That's all PVP problems.

[Mithyk]

17 minutes ago, Thatch said:

no one complained about flyers being too fast, stamina too high,

Yup, the conversations specifically did include complaints about those things in PvE, in relation to making the game boring and taking away all challenge from the game.  Part of the "no challenge after level 20 in PvE" issues. Suggestions included the nerfing we just saw, in both speed and stam, along with flying predators, flying alphas, massive regular storms that ground flyers like in SE, and regular lightning strikes on anything carrying metal.

[Havokpaintedwolf]

absolutly not.

[Thatch]

3 hours ago, Mithyk said:

Yup, the conversations specifically did include complaints about those things in PvE, in relation to making the game boring and taking away all challenge from the game.  Part of the "no challenge after level 20 in PvE" issues. Suggestions included the nerfing we just saw, in both speed and stam, along with flying predators, flying alphas, massive regular storms that ground flyers like in SE, and regular lightning strikes on anything carrying metal.

"I got bored on metal runs because my quetz was too fast and I would rather land on the ground, although its optional to just avoid upgrading speed and possibly land the quetz without being forced to."

"Its so boring to fly from 1 end to another at a faster rate, I would like everyone that doesn't effect me in the server to fly slower than my 8th generation oxygen flyer."

 

Makes sense.

[87crosby]

They should be seperate

[TR-8R]

PvP and PvE should be separate . 

Every PvP nerf affect PvE , and PvE also get it own unfair treatment like the disabling of small dino grab for land dino which is actually very useful in PvE and can't even cause any damage .

[vanyelxp5]

There have been plenty of nerfs that were brought in because of pvp. This latest one was primarily intended for pve. Because of the simple fact that flyers were being used for every single thing, instead of land dinos being able to shine in their specialized areas.

 

All I can say is, it's about time that PVP got hit by a nerf that was implemented because of pve.

 

Examples of pvp nerfs hitting pve? The Giga nerf, the first Ptera nerf, the Titanosaur being a temporary tame, turrets/plant x on platforms. That's just the ones I know of for sure. I'm certain others can come up with more examples.

[TR-8R]

1 minute ago, vanyelxp5 said:

There have been plenty of nerfs that were brought in because of pvp. This latest one was primarily intended for pve. Because of the simple fact that flyers were being used for every single thing, instead of land dinos being able to shine in their specialized areas.

 

All I can say is, it's about time that PVP got hit by a nerf that was implemented because of pve.

 

Examples of pvp nerfs hitting pve? The Giga nerf, the first Ptera nerf, the Titanosaur being a temporary tame, turrets/plant x on platforms. That's just the ones I know of for sure. I'm certain others can come up with more examples.

Do flyer gather enough meat / berry to feed your base ?

Do flyer get metal from metal node ?

Do flyer swim under the ocean ?

Do flyer caving ?

Do flyer fight boss ?

Do flyer make cementing paste ?

 

Land dino have theirs own utility , Flyer do what they do best : superior in mobility , now it is like complaining a plane being able to haul a lot of good over a vast distance and make truck useless .

[Nemspy]

5 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

There have been plenty of nerfs that were brought in because of pvp. This latest one was primarily intended for pve. Because of the simple fact that flyers were being used for every single thing, instead of land dinos being able to shine in their specialized areas.

 

The problem is, people will still use birds almost exclusively -- they will just put up with the awful slowness of them because they are still more convenient than stumbling around on land.

[vanyelxp5]

6 minutes ago, TR-8R said:

Do flyer gather enough meat / berry to feed your base ?

Do flyer get metal from metal node ?

Do flyer swim under the ocean ?

Do flyer caving ?

Do flyer fight boss ?

Do flyer make cementing paste ?

 

Land dino have theirs own utility , Flyer do what they do best : superior in mobility , now it is like complaining a plane being able to haul a lot of good over a vast distance and make truck useless .

Yes to meat, no to berry.

no, but previously a quetz could haul an anky and carry back a lot more metal than was intended in a single load. Now they have to actually carry the amount the quetz is capable of hauling.

Stupid question

Stupid question.

Stupid question

Stupid question.

 

Obviously there are things a flyer can't do, but for absolutely everything they can, even if a land dino would do it better, people would take the flyer just because it got there faster.

[Nemspy]

5 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

 

no, but previously a quetz could haul an anky and carry back a lot more metal than was intended in a single load. Now they have to actually carry the amount the quetz is capable of hauling.

I have no problem with the Q mining and weight nerfs. It's making them so slow and annoying (low stamina) as transport that bothers me.

[catnip]

9 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

 

Obviously there are things a flyer can't do, but for absolutely everything they can, even if a land dino would do it better, people would take the flyer just because it got there faster.

Yes, flyers were faster for transporting things, but they are also a safer means of travel. The changes to stam are incredibly debilitating. I was stationary on my wyvern and it was draining it at an insane rate. 

[LilNastyGurl]

NO, THIS IS BS.

I want an easy game.

I want to build 6 Industrial Forges and make a metal fortress after ONE RUN. I don't care about realism or balance. Just me, and Anky, and my platform quetzal. 5,000+ ore, I don't CARE!

I WANT TO FLY ACROSS THE MAP in 2 MINUTES AND AVOID SABERS AND ARGENTS. not becuz im bad at the gem or anythin but cuz I'm alpha on my serv.r.

 I WANT TO GO TO SCORCHED EARTH AND CLEAR OUT EVERY SINGLE NEST AND LAUGH AT THE Level 160 Wyverns chasing me cuz they can't catch me.

I don't care if I was supposed to not skip everything in the game, I AM AN AMERICAN AND IT IS MY RIGHT, to do whatever the hell I want.

Change it back, WC, or I'm suing you, DDOSING you and doxxing you. Anonymous 4 Life

[TR-8R]

59 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

Stupid question

Stupid question.

Stupid question

Stupid question.

 

You can't even answer those question cus flyer can't do that to begin with , the statement " Flyer being used for everything " is  a lie , they mostly for moving around fast , but when it come to do a specific job you still need a land dino .

 

[Nemspy]

36 minutes ago, LilNastyGurl said:

NO, THIS IS BS.

I want an easy game.

I want to build 6 Industrial Forges and make a metal fortress after ONE RUN. I don't care about realism or balance. Just me, and Anky, and my platform quetzal. 5,000+ ore, I don't CARE!

I WANT TO FLY ACROSS THE MAP in 2 MINUTES AND AVOID SABERS AND ARGENTS. not becuz im bad at the gem or anythin but cuz I'm alpha on my serv.r.

 I WANT TO GO TO SCORCHED EARTH AND CLEAR OUT EVERY SINGLE NEST AND LAUGH AT THE Level 160 Wyverns chasing me cuz they can't catch me.

I don't care if I was supposed to not skip everything in the game, I AM AN AMERICAN AND IT IS MY RIGHT, to do whatever the hell I want.

Change it back, WC, or I'm suing you, DDOSING you and doxxing you. Anonymous 4 Life

 

Holy guacamole! A strawman avalanche!

If we're so concerned about people being able to skip the game we would make it impossible for people to join tribes or receive items and dinos from other players until they hit level 80 or something.

As someone who started very early on, I remember the acquisition of metal tools being a very big deal. I remember taming a level 8 para as being an outstanding achievement. I didn't even turn on global chat until I was about level 30 and I never joined a tribe.

But, yes, I do want to be able to travel around the map quickly. I've done the scramble to survive, huddled in my thatch house, bit. I'm happy to sandbox it now. I can't comment on the SE stuff as I've spent exactly five minutes over there.

[vanyelxp5]

35 minutes ago, Nemspy said:

I have no problem with the Q mining and weight nerfs. It's making them so slow and annoying (low stamina) as transport that bothers me.

Neither of these things effect me at all. I can easily make it to and from my base and metal mining location without coming close to running out of stamina, even now.

I haven't done a metal run since the nerf, and haven't really looked at my hauler quetz. So I don't know if it would be more efficient to continue using it, or to go with my bronto, which is what I want to do, but as long as it's less efficient, I have no reason to do so.

 

What I want, is for the top tier dino in each category to actually be the best for what it was designed for. Long distance cargo hauling, the quetz should be the best (and still is in spite of the nerf, you just have to be smarter about it.) Shorter distance, or higher weight hauling, the bronto should be the best option (prior to the nerf, the quetz was the better option even for this, which is not how it should be) Mid range hauling, the Paracer should be an attractive option.

 

For a meat run, the Giga should be the absolute best. Currently though, a good Rex can actually get more meat per kill because the Giga's meat per bite tops out at 75% melee. Which gives you less meat than a Rex at 1000% melee.

 

For caves, the strongest dino you can get around the cave on is the best, as it should be.

 

Nerfs are not the way I would accomplish this though, at least not to the extent that they happened. I would have done away with the weight glitch long ago, and I would have put a cap on how much speed a flyer could have. I also would have done away with the recharging a Quetz's stamina by dismounting in air thing long ago. I would then buff the land dinos a bit to make them a more attractive option. I would do it a little at a time so that a later nerf wouldn't be necessary. But I wouldn't necessarily try to bring them up to where everyone would want to use them. There's always going to be somebody who clings to what they know (and what they know, is the quetz as their cargo hauler.) No, what I would do, is look at base locations within a reasonable distance of resources, and try to bring the land dinos up to where it takes the same amount of time, or just slightly less to do the same job as a flyer.

 

For this example, let's look at metal mining. As previously stated, it takes me around 5 minutes to get my bronto from my base to the start of my metal run. It currently hauls 10k weight. Previously I could take my quetz up to the cliffs with the Anky either in its claws, or on the platform in about a minute from where the quetz was perched to the Anky to the cliffs. Pure mining time is around 15 minutes. With the bronto, I can do pretty much a straight run around the area with it on follow, and transporting the metal from the Anky to it. Takes about 3 minutes less since I don't have to park it next to the metal and then get back to the anky to mine. So, currently we have a mining + travel time of 17 minutes for the bronto, and 16 for the quetz. The quetz gets another minute and change added for the trip back in the middle to unload onto the forge and back, so 17:30 for the Quetz, 17 for the bronto. Where the quetz makes up time though, is the final return trip. It takes another minute to fly back with the Anky and park it. The bronto takes another 5 minutes to run back. So it's 18:30 minutes vs 22. Not a huge difference, but it is a difference. So, how do we shave time off the trip? The obvious solution is to increase the bronto's speed by the 20% necessary to make them about the same... but that's not how I would do it. Instead, I would look at the weight, increase the weight so the bronto caries 3x more than the quetz. This adds an extra trip onto the run for the quetz, bringing it up to 20 vs the bronto still at 22. Now the bronto only needs to increase speed by around 10% to do the same job in the same time. This is a much more reasonable change. (it also makes a lot more sense. Look at a bronto, they should be able to carry multiple tons of weight.)