zeroBurnAcidCool Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Did anyone ever get an answer to why these systems are not separated? I wonder is it to hard for the studio is that why? What i see is a simple change the configuration file and that would be it wouldn't it? Allow the raiding, all that jazz, then in pve do the opposite. Besides maybe the same code you are already working with how drastic of a change would it be since you are practically doing it now. The only difference is the .EXE you are using, YES there would be TWO separate exe's folder and the game would double in size if people wanted to pve and pvp that is their choice and they have to make it. If they complain that is their issue not yours. SOTF doesn't have to be setup the way it is setup, you can dup the exact game but change what happens in one vs the other, its the exact same thing now. Only difference is those of us wanting pve get what we want and those wanting pvp get what they want.. pve is never going to pvp if that was your deal, if anything you are making pvp come to pve and you can see that i am sure. So to save your pvp-ness you could've just replaced SOTF keep the name make it the same DL, and configure things to what each side is stating. You wouldn't have all these people complaining (I know we complain anyway) cause you would have hopefully 1 person (at the very least) mentioning hey, this is a bad idea for pvp they will get wiped but good for pve cause (reasons). I am sure there is a good explanation as to why ,i have not heard of why though so anyone can give me a direct reply and not a quoted thread to read that i do not have time for, would be great to help me understand why these two systems aren't separate when they are already separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreelancerKnux Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Basically PvE was tacked on after the game was running as WC saw there were players interested in it. So because it was an after thought rather than something planned back in 'real development' the two modes are basically the same and use the same code. I would imagine this is something they will rectify in ark 2 along with building mechanics, meshing and all the other issues that are too deeply embedded in the code to fix now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarki Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, FreelancerKnux said: Basically PvE was tacked on after the game was running as WC saw there were players interested in it. So because it was an after thought rather than something planned back in 'real development' the two modes are basically the same and use the same code. Is this what WC have actually said, is this verified or just your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthaNyan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 6 hours ago, zeroBurnAcidCool said: Did anyone ever get an answer to why these systems are not separated? I wonder is it to hard for the studio is that why? WC struggles to deliever in a timely manner on all platforms and systems they have already engaged with and you want to double the disappointment? "Person who chases two rabbits catches neither." - proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paroxyde Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 In PvE there is the war mechanism. You basically PvP for a prearranged amount of time with one or several other tribe. Friday night server fight! When you are bored in PvE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmE Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 5 hours ago, FreelancerKnux said: Basically PvE was tacked on after the game was running as WC saw there were players interested in it. So because it was an after thought rather than something planned back in 'real development' the two modes are basically the same and use the same code. I would imagine this is something they will rectify in ark 2 along with building mechanics, meshing and all the other issues that are too deeply embedded in the code to fix now. I find that hard to believe considering PvP is always an afterthought in literally each and every patch they ever release, and none of the developers, or major players in the system, have ever, or currently play, PvP. Like, if PvP as is the "Default" like you suspect, how do they make such major mistakes every single time they release a tek weapon for instance (The Mek as the latest example, but it's happened with every tek weapon and tek saddle released to date). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreelancerKnux Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 8 hours ago, Anarki said: Is this what WC have actually said, is this verified or just your opinion? Were you around when there wasn't a pve mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yekrucifixion187 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 6 hours ago, iAmE said: I find that hard to believe considering PvP is always an afterthought in literally each and every patch they ever release, and none of the developers, or major players in the system, have ever, or currently play, PvP. Like, if PvP as is the "Default" like you suspect, how do they make such major mistakes every single time they release a tek weapon for instance (The Mek as the latest example, but it's happened with every tek weapon and tek saddle released to date). Afterthought? Lol Flyer nerf no benefit to PvE Griffin nerf no benefit to PvE Giga, Stego, Bronto, Pachyrhino, etc. etc. nerfs have no benefit to PvE. Most of these did the direct opposite and made PvE more grindy. No, you are mistaken. PvP is the driving force behind every major change that has made Ark what it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmE Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, yekrucifixion187 said: Afterthought? Lol Flyer nerf no benefit to PvE Griffin nerf no benefit to PvE Giga, Stego, Bronto, Pachyrhino, etc. etc. nerfs have no benefit to PvE. Most of these did the direct opposite and made PvE more grindy. No, you are mistaken. PvP is the driving force behind every major change that has made Ark what it is today. 1: It was specifically stated as a nerf towards how flyers trivialized PvE. 2: Well, yes. They had to nerf it because it was broken. PvE and PvP wise. Universally. 3: They had no meaningful effect on PvE either, and were all heavily necessary. They're band-aids at best to boot. About 95% of changes were made to make the game, as a whole, more grindy. My point was less so that they make the game FOR PvE, but rather that if their intent is to balance this game as a PvP game, is that they've failed to an extreme extent. Also to point out that the developers have no one among them that plays PvP, has played PvP, or even remotely understands PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddansen Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Isn't it called PvP/PvE because you are going up against other players as well as the environment ? PvE doesn't stand for playing house and farm simulation that's just what those players like to do lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, yekrucifixion187 said: PvP is the driving force behind every major change that has made Ark what it is today. This is not the case, and you see the same thing posted by PvP players who complain that PvE is the driving force behind every change that has been made. Changes affect both game modes because they're the same game with the same mechanics. The game isn't individually balanced for both. The issue at hand is that any time a PvP player doesn't like a change they blame it on PvE players...and whenever a PvE player doesn't like a change they blame it on PvP players. That's how it's been since they introduced PvE mode. The cut and dry reality here is that separating the two and balancing two different games in one will not change or reduce complaints. People will still complain about the things they don't like, they just won't blame it on the other game mode anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmE Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, LouSpowells said: That's how it's been since they introduced PvE mode. They had to introduce a PvE mode after the fact, yet none of their developers have ever played PvP in any capacity. The sheer ...... I don't even know what to call it anymore. The situation gives me such a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, iAmE said: They had to introduce a PvE mode after the fact, yet none of their developers have ever played PvP in any capacity. Why do people feel the need to make things up like that? Is it because you think it lends additional credence to your argument? Because it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmE Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 56 minutes ago, LouSpowells said: Why do people feel the need to make things up like that? Is it because you think it lends additional credence to your argument? Because it doesn't. Because it's the most rational explanation for what's happened, first and foremost. To be frank, half of the stuff they do makes no sense from any point of view, either PvE or PvP, so far as gameplay is concerned. For instance, making Reapers weaker then tamed Carnos on release. Implementing a flyer nerf where flyers were all universally slower then Phiomia's. Etc. It boils down to two things. Either you assume the developers don't play the game and are simply inexperienced, or you assume they do play the game, and are incompetent in every possible way. Personally, I'd prefer to think that they're simply inexperienced as opposed to outright stupid, but hey. I'm not looking to add credence to any argument. I was simply stating what it looks like. The fact that they don't play the game, let alone PvP, isn't really an uncommon viewpoint, and is a perfectly reasonable position to take. All you have to do is look at almost any content they release, like say, Extinction. How much credence you lend reality is entirely up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, iAmE said: Because it's the most rational explanation for what's happened, first and foremost. To be frank, half of the stuff they do makes no sense from any point of view, either PvE or PvP, so far as gameplay is concerned. You're saying that the Devs have never played the game they made. While you might have criticisms of their decisions/failures/successes, there's nothing rational about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmE Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 hours ago, LouSpowells said: You're saying that the Devs have never played the game they made. While you might have criticisms of their decisions/failures/successes, there's nothing rational about that. There's plenty rational about it. If I spent 12 hours a day working on something, I probably wouldn't play it for "Fun" either. There are problems with the game, systemic problem, at every level of play, in every expansion/content patch they've ever released, that demonstrates not only a marked lack of understanding *of the game* but almost no understanding of the game from the point of view of a player. For instance, let's look at Tek weapons. Each and every one has been overpowered for the *exact same reason*, yet they continue to release them. The "Cryoball" XP exploit they fixed earlier was done by essentially just having the dino, and using the Cryoball in normal intended fashion. You're right, I have criticisms of their success/decisions/failures, I have yet to see any convincing arguments, points or even discussions that raise any half-way coherent points in favor of them playing their game, understanding it, or even testing it in a professional manner. If you play PvP, you know *immediately* that having multiple siege mechanics that outrange turrets is going to be highly problematic to outright game-breaking, yet they've repeated that problem half a dozen or more times. If you play the game at all, really, you know that creating a flyer nerf where the fastest flyers are slower then base 100% player movement speed is going to cause massive backlash and destroy the purpose of flyers entirely. Yet they've done both of these things. It actually seems, to be frank, that if anyone is making claims without any rationale, it would be you. Trying to claim the developers are just so incredibly bad at their jobs that they think the above issues are "Totally fine", rather then them just not understanding the game from the point of view of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 hour ago, iAmE said: It actually seems, to be frank, that if anyone is making claims without any rationale, it would be you. "I know you are but what am I." K. You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaProiettile Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 On 11/13/2018 at 11:35 PM, iAmE said: I find that hard to believe considering PvP is always an afterthought in literally each and every patch they ever release, and none of the developers, or major players in the system, have ever, or currently play, PvP. Like, if PvP as is the "Default" like you suspect, how do they make such major mistakes every single time they release a tek weapon for instance (The Mek as the latest example, but it's happened with every tek weapon and tek saddle released to date). There was no PVE/Roleplayer mode back in 2015 on first launch. That only came afterwards basically when a bunch of people that had got wiped on the servers banded together to demand a safer way of playing. The result was this PVE thing. With regards to why PVP balancing is often off its pretty simple, the devs are PVE players. I've seen their base complete with rainbow coloured dinos they had on a server. It took them 2 years to figure out that having infinite tribe sizes and infinite alliances maybe wasn't all that great for competition on Official Servers. People had been asking for small tribe servers for years before they finally agreed to it and now they are the most popular Official servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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