Flyer Nerf v2 will be good or even worst, Jen reaction on Steam

[iAmE]

39 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

I'm sorry Rickyh24, but when I can cross the entire island in 8 minutes I can't support claims that a flier is "useless".

Meanwhile you could have literally run across the map in 5 minutes.

Useless means that the creature has no use. A flyer is useless because they are good at nothing. At all. They aren't fast, there are at least dozens of creatures that can get anywhere on the island, faster. They don't gather, and they don't fight, by design. From the beginning, the only thing Flyers have been used for is point A to point B travel. Now they're fourth and fifth rate at that. 

Just because you *can* use a hammer to fix fine china, doesn't mean you should. Your point is kind of like that. 

[DirtyMactruck]

Why not have servers for people that like flyers and then have servers for people that like nerfs.  Hell you can even give them a nerf gun.

[theronin]

10 hours ago, itdocman said:

Roughly reads as... We don't have a real plan for this game... that's the reason we're flailing about like we're blindfolded and in a maze... We really don't understand change management, and we're sorry that makes you uncomfortable, but that's the way we operate and we're really not going to try to get any better at it... thanks for being our whipping post, we're so glad you all love the abuse so much!  and please keep giving us your feedback because we know it makes you feel good to feel like you're being heard... what was that?  Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't listening... you all are so super special and important to us! kthxbyeeeeee... ~.0  >^.^<

Agreed.  Total cop out response.

[GP]

3 hours ago, BobRoss said:

lets pray to god it stays this way  i can agree upon a base stat increase but no more points allocated towards it. im done with jetfighter pteras breaking the soundbarrier  

The way I see it, the changes need to be made are:

• Remove the slow Stam regain.
• Increase the locked speed a bit more, particularly on Quetz and Argent.
• Keep the speed locked, i.e. no points allowed.

However, with the speed being locked, then the speed of wild flyers should be reviewed to compare them with tamed. Even if they are a bit faster, i.e. like some tamed creatures aren't as strong in melee than wild ones, then i think its fine if wild ones are faster, but if its too fast compared to the locked speed then reduce them a bit for wild ones.

This is my opinion as a player though.

[TheSpirit]

2 hours ago, Sorrelon said:

Up the harvest rates and players are still limited by carry weight. A better solution would be keeping the harvest rates as they are and decreasing the crafting costs and taming times.

Totally agree. Primitive+ already has advanced workbench where you can make anything you can make in smithy with 33% discount (rounded down). If it would be possible to make this discount apply to every bp you put in adv. workbench I think it would be a real resource saver. 

[LostBytes]

11 hours ago, Volcano637 said:

Just wait till the official wipe comes on release. This nerf will look lik a day at the beach ?

I feel there will be no wipe upon release. The devs have stated many times, that, they will only wipe/rollback due to technical reasons. (Bad patch, broken patch, unforeseen hiccups). I can see a bunch of new servers added, to accommodate the influx of new players. But a Wipe , not gonna happen, to many people with to much time invested.

[theronin]

3 minutes ago, GamerPerfection said:

The way I see it, the changes need to be made are:

• Remove the slow Stam regain.
• Increase the locked speed a bit more, particularly on Quetz and Argent.
• Keep the speed locked, i.e. no points allowed.

However, with the speed being locked, then the speed of wild flyers should be reviewed to compare them with tamed. Even if they are a bit faster, i.e. like some tamed creatures aren't as strong in melee than wild ones, then i think its fine if wild ones are faster, but if its too fast compared to the locked speed then reduce them a bit for wild ones.

This is my opinion as a player though.

At a minimum.  Isn't there also a cool down on barrel rolls now?  I mean, really, devs.

Look, I get the go extreme and ratchet back.  This is burn the damn house and the land its on and ratchet back.  Sorry, devs you are idiots.

[Burnz]

11 hours ago, iAmE said:

That's half the point. They literally can't make flyers any worse. They're already useless. If they nerf them more, they'll still be useless. No change. Half the population of the game may quit over it, but it won't change anything. Flyers have absolutely nothing to lose, and everything to gain. 

Flying mounts aren't useless. I had a buddy pick me up from the other side of the map and carry me to our base. I tell you what it was much faster than walking! Only had to stop twice for stam but that's fine by me.

I don't see what the big deal is here!

[DarthaNyan]

2 minutes ago, Burnz said:

Flying mounts aren't useless. I had a buddy pick me up from the other side of the map and carry me to our base. I tell you what it was much faster than walking! Only had to stop twice for stam but that's fine by me.

I don't see what the big deal is here!

Argy?

[wesley0444]

My thoughts:

Make barrel roll and wyvern breath attacks use less stam (Probably 50% of current values) to compensate for 75% stam nerf. And for the sake of dino specialization and customization please bring back speed leveling. If they need to fly slower for balance let's tweak the increase per rank (say from the old 2.5% to 1%) or the base speed or both a little. But as it is now we have (i think unintentionally) nerfed a very fun and creative part of the game: custom dino leveling. At least this way if people want to fly fast they will have to seriously make some cutbacks on other stats, make speed expensive, not unobtainable. 

[Ranger1]

18 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

I never mentioned a Ptera. Thanks for the info though. 

No worries Rickyh24.  I chose the Ptera because you were chiefly concerned with speed, and the Ptera was the flier most affected (especially as it relates to long distance travel).

Also it happens to be what I tested. 

[Burnz]

4 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Argy?

It was a pter, was a bit slower than it used to be but I think people are overacting. This is a good change, flyers have been too powerful for too long. They are still powerful but brought back inline more so.

[jcmeyer5]

@Jen@Jat

I think the thing that irks me most is the apparent "eh" attitude of WC towards the community.  Let me explain...

Even in Jen's well-meaning post above, there is a modicum of condescension.  By telling us that this is how games are made (unpopular decisions made to extreme), it insults probably 75% of people here who wanted nothing to do with these changes.  We (community) understand iterations and adjustments, but what has been done here is a complete tear-down of a key mechanic of the game.  That is NOT iteration.  I also feel safe in saying that nearly everybody, even the proponents of some form of adjustment to birds, thinks this was not just overkill, but something approaching flipping everyone the bird.  If the community had truly been heard, these changes wouldn't have seen the light of day.  If these things had been (properly) tested internally, there is no way the massive impact of these changes would not have been noticed.

We (community) have paid for this game... like with money.  Too hide behind the "early access" moniker is unreasonable at this point.  Quite frankly, I partially blame Microsoft, Steam, and Sony for allowing it, but when WC started selling expansion packs, this game stopped being "early access" and became an official product that was due support and accountability.  Beyond just the bird changes, Xbox has had issues with non-dedicated play for the last two patches.  We (son and I) have to clear MAC and restart our consoles every time we attempt to play in a non-dedicated session.  And even then it is a 50/50 proposition whether we will make it in clean or not.  Now I know that there was a major XDK upgrade behind this, but at the same time, WC is responsible for making sure the core functionality of the game is still viable.  The text typing bug is another one.  We have many titles on Xbox One that do not have these problems when Ark does.  Again, from a casual observer, when that happens, it is hard to blame a 3rd party, particularly when said 3rd party hasn't said anything about it and other titles aren't having the issues.

Communications or road maps on the rest of the alpha/beta timeframe are non-existent.  If we are to truly believe that this is still an alpha product, and we are (paying) testers, then where is the list of "here is what is needed to be feature complete?"  Even with vague timelines that are disclaimed to hell and back, that is a communication point that the community can see and understand.  Where is Windows 10 Play Anywhere?  Wasn't that supposed to happen 4 months ago?  Is it still on the road map?  Some people (me) purchased the game with the understanding that that particular feature would make it into the game.  Since the last promise date was missed, there hasn't been any communication on the subject.  I understand features get pushed back or even dropped, but would it not be better to communicate those changes before people start marking with the pitch forks and torches?

I really could go on (we are all testers, these are test servers, but there is no wipe when the game releases?), but I think that is enough for today.  Thanks for listening.

[Rickyh24]

2 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

No worries Rickyh24.  I chose the Ptera because you were chiefly concerned with speed, and the Ptera was the flier most affected (especially as it relates to long distance travel).

Also it happens to be what I tested. 

I have a tap I leveled in pretty much just speed and Weight. It's my favorite mount. That's no longer the case.  I play pve so I don't care how powerful birds are. It's time to treat the modes differently I think. 

[queenwefe]

I have a lot of hours logged and all I want to know is, if the nerf stays, what new way of obtaining wyvern eggs and milk will they introduce?

The stamina nerf is fairly over the top and could use a tweak. The speed nerf is painful, but I can live with it.

What I can't really get my head around is the sudden removal of wyvern raising. As a tribe we've tried everything we can think of since the patch to get near eggs and every time it's the same result: death of players and mounts. We moved our whole tribe to a new server recently and it was mainly to experience wyvern raising and rock elemental fights.

I have single player wyverns, but it doesn't feel right to bring them into our mp server.

Feeling a bit let down.

[Burnz]

4 minutes ago, queenwefe said:

I have a lot of hours logged and all I want to know is, if the nerf stays, what new way of obtaining wyvern eggs and milk will they introduce?

The stamina nerf is fairly over the top and could use a tweak. The speed nerf is painful, but I can live with it.

What I can't really get my head around is the sudden removal of wyvern raising. As a tribe we've tried everything we can think of since the patch to get near eggs and every time it's the same result: death of players and mounts. We moved our whole tribe to a new server recently and it was mainly to experience wyvern raising and rock elemental fights.

I have single player wyverns, but it doesn't feel right to bring them into our mp server.

Feeling a bit let down.

The same way you used to get eggs before people could transfer their birds in

Grab egg, run to a single foundation, put egg in box. Die, you now have egg. Repeat.

Milk, use a gally

[Grimdrinker]

with this bird nerf I want to see jen and her team get a tribes worth of good dragon eggs with base speed argys

 

[Ranger1]

6 minutes ago, queenwefe said:

I have a lot of hours logged and all I want to know is, if the nerf stays, what new way of obtaining wyvern eggs and milk will they introduce?

The stamina nerf is fairly over the top and could use a tweak. The speed nerf is painful, but I can live with it.

What I can't really get my head around is the sudden removal of wyvern raising. As a tribe we've tried everything we can think of since the patch to get near eggs and every time it's the same result: death of players and mounts. We moved our whole tribe to a new server recently and it was mainly to experience wyvern raising and rock elemental fights.

I have single player wyverns, but it doesn't feel right to bring them into our mp server.

Feeling a bit let down.

I have a feeling the Wyvern situation will be looked at closely.  In the meantime people seem to be having some success with agro baiting the Wyverns away from the nest and killing them, then doing egg collection (or using the suicide ploy described above).

Take that with a grain of salt, but it ought to give you something to play around with until things start being adjusted.

 

[Lewiatan]

10 minutes ago, jcmeyer5 said:

@Jen@Jat

 

Communications or road maps on the rest of the alpha/beta timeframe are non-existent.  If we are to truly believe that this is still an alpha product, and we are (paying) testers, then where is the list of "here is what is needed to be feature complete?"  Even with vague timelines that are disclaimed to hell and back, that is a communication point that the community can see and understand.  Where is Windows 10 Play Anywhere?  Wasn't that supposed to happen 4 months ago?  Is it still on the road map?  Some people (me) purchased the game with the understanding that that particular feature would make it into the game.  Since the last promise date was missed, there hasn't been any communication on the subject.  I understand features get pushed back or even dropped, but would it not be better to communicate those changes before people start marking with the pitch forks and torches?

I really could go on (we are all testers, these are test servers, but there is no wipe when the game releases?), but I think that is enough for today.  Thanks for listening.

I recommand watching their GDC 2017 speach about their Early Access, they admitted openly they do not have strict and detailed roadmap of features on any kind. They make things as they go. The only list of features they plan to do is very generic list of description what their game should have, their game vision. If they want to make X or Y thing, they check if that fits to the general vision of the game. So, I'm not surprised they cannot meet up with any deadline or official premiere date whatsoever.

There is still said on steam shop that Trello Board roadmap was suppoused to be released to public after EA launch. We got none. And we will never get most likely.

[Lewiatan]

5 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

I have a feeling the Wyvern situation will be looked at closely.  In the meantime people seem to be having some success with agro baiting the Wyverns away from the nest and killing them, then doing egg collection.  Take that with a grain of salt, but it ought to give you something to play around with until things start being adjusted.

Basically, argentavis cannot be locked to 100%. Simple as that. As far as I know you need around 180% speed to go to there safetly and escape from swarm of Wyverns. Unless speed cap is removed or increased significantly, people are not able to grow hatchlings up nor get new eggs. 

Developers cannot decrease wild wyverns speed, because the animation will not fit and it may become quite serious immersion breaker. 

Overall, I'm really surprised and a bit irritated this was overlooked during QA testing.

[Burnz]

i think people need to realise that having a wyvern is not a god given right. it is (even with the nerf) the most OP dino in the game, it should been made A LOT harder when the pay to win DLC came out.

A good lightning wyvern will one hit a wild 150 spino... but everyone should have one right?

[Lewiatan]

Just now, Burnz said:

i think people need to realise that having a wyvern is not a god given right. it is (even with the nerf) the most OP dino in the game, it should been made A LOT harder when the pay to win DLC came out.

A good lightning wyvern will one hit a wild 150 spino... but everyone should have one right?

The mejor selling point of this DLC were wyverns. I assume a lot of people bought DLC only for them, so they want to them powerful and fun to use. If someone worked hard to get one wyvern egg, game cannot be so punishing that you cannot get a milk for hatchling, because player may just flip the table. In the end it is a game, not a job.

We reach a problem that PVP and PVE need to have seperated statistics and way of addressing the balance. We need to have wyverns fair in PVP, but that might take fun away for PVE player.

[BobRoss]

39 minutes ago, GamerPerfection said:

The way I see it, the changes need to be made are:

• Remove the slow Stam regain.
• Increase the locked speed a bit more, particularly on Quetz and Argent.
• Keep the speed locked, i.e. no points allowed.

However, with the speed being locked, then the speed of wild flyers should be reviewed to compare them with tamed. Even if they are a bit faster, i.e. like some tamed creatures aren't as strong in melee than wild ones, then i think its fine if wild ones are faster, but if its too fast compared to the locked speed then reduce them a bit for wild ones.

This is my opinion as a player though.

why do you think wild speed should be faster than tamed? i would do it the other way around, tamed speed is basespeed + x amount and x amount is different for every flier

[BobRoss]

1 hour ago, Herbalthought said:

just roflmfao how is that gonna work now ? sure we all got a fastest q now dont we ^^

Really think before posting  especially considering what the subject is lol

i didnt say a quetzal necessarily, you can fly another dinos with the quetzals in tow

[queenwefe]

7 minutes ago, Burnz said:

The same way you used to get eggs before people could transfer their birds in

Grab egg, run to a single foundation, put egg in box. Die, you now have egg. Repeat.

Milk, use a gally

But how do you get into the nest alcoves in the scar or get back to the egg that's then left in the wyvern scar without dying? Trying to parachute to the egg alcoves also results in breathy death.

We don't have transferred birds. In SP I always used argies before they put tapas in, but with a lot of levels in speed. Since my tribe moved to SE we've used tapas but they're all dead now.

14 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

I have a feeling the Wyvern situation will be looked at closely.  In the meantime people seem to be having some success with agro baiting the Wyverns away from the nest and killing them, then doing egg collection (or using the suicide ploy described above).

Take that with a grain of salt, but it ought to give you something to play around with until things start being adjusted.

 

I'm crossing my fingers that it wil get looked at soon