I love how no one is talking about one of the main problems of the game.

[TankinTBone]

I currently don't play because the game has so many problems but what ive seen in youtuber video are speed hackers everywhere..... and i not deep searching the forums but.. i see no one talking about it, i guess they are just gonna let them free roam ???

[Pipinghot]

On 1/13/2024 at 7:09 AM, TankinTBone said:

I currently don't play because the game has so many problems but what ive seen in youtuber video are speed hackers everywhere..... and i not deep searching the forums but.. i see no one talking about it, i guess they are just gonna let them free roam ???

People complain about cheaters constantly (which they should, of course). They don't necessarily say "speed hackers" in their posts because there's more than one kind of cheating. Lots of people are talking about it, just not using your specific words.

Also, Snail/WC aren't going to talk about it much, if at all, because they don't really care about cheating, they only care about pretending to care about cheating. It's important to remember that Snail has an employee clan (which includes the CEO of snail) and they are very well known to be a big pile of cheaters. These are not people who care about cheating.

Edited January 14 by Pipinghot

[wizard03]

wait.......your able to play the game?

[TankinTBone]

???? yea but there are still cheaters.... dont even talk if ur gonna defend the game and the cheaters that it run its .... its disgusting

[TankinTBone]

11 hours ago, wizard03 said:

wait.......your able to play the game?

????? wait ur literally dismissing my problem with ur own please grow up and make ur own post 

[TankinTBone]

actually part of the problem 

[Pipinghot]

1 hour ago, TankinTBone said:

dont even talk if ur gonna defend the game and the cheaters that it run its .... its disgusting

No one in this thread has defended the game or the cheaters. Don't make up fake arguments to argue against.

[Sharethy]

No game will go public about cheating being a problem In there game lol that's super bad for sales..

the most any gave dev will do Is say they made It harder for cheater or trying out a new anti cheat.

Think of It from the other side not just the customers side...
Also they are doing stuff just maybe not enough they complete blocked windows player from the rest of the platforms because of cheating...

By no means am I defending devs but also not bashing them.

[TankinTBone]

gg 

[sjskdjkfa]

There is no one true problem, there is only the true morty. One day he shall return.

[parazight]

Why is no one talking about how completely nondescript the title of this thread is in relation to its topic?

people who whine about cheating are 100% clueless. Hackers, cheaters, and bad actors are way beyond this game company’s ability to solve. Cyber criminal behavior THIS DECADE is state sponsored by eastern communist countries. Billion dollar companies are held hostage and all the US government can do is to ask them nice to stop.  You think Wildcard is going to be able to do anything substantial?  HAHA  

Maybe one day gaming companies will implement AI anti cheat tech, but not anytime soon.

 

 

[Scheneighnay]

I gave up on official servers in 2016.

Haven't seen a cheater because I play on a private server.

[darkradeon]

In loving memory of Classic servers and Snail Game USA management

Edited January 16 by darkradeon

[TankinTBone]

regardless its still pathetic this game needs security more than msot games you play because of the hours you can put and how fast you can lose it because of something stupid... i hope it never thrives until they get it fixed and it may sounds scummy to some , but its truthfully fair im tired of the abusing tactics they use . 

[Pipinghot]

2 hours ago, parazight said:

Hackers, cheaters, and bad actors are way beyond this game company’s ability to solve.

No one expects any company to "solve" cheating, cheating has been part of humanity since the beginning of time. What people do expect a game publisher to make a good faith effort, to do the absolute best they can in order to try to prevent and minimize cheating, and Snail/WC fails to meet that standard. They don't to their best, because they don't care about cheating. Snail/WC could do much, Much (MUCH) better at preventing cheating, not perfect, but a whole lot better. The real issue is that they just don't care. Again, Snail has a clan made up of company employees and they are well known to be a cheating clan. When the publisher of a game has their own clan full of cheaters, including the CEO himself, it should be painfully obvious, even to you, that they are the bad actors you're talking about.

2 hours ago, parazight said:

Cyber criminal behavior THIS DECADE is state sponsored by eastern communist countries. Billion dollar companies are held hostage and all the US government can do is to ask them nice to stop.

Your kind of nihilism is not the answer, giving up never makes anything better.

We can't "solve" crime but we still have police departments tasked with trying to find and prosecute bad actors.

We can't "solve" financial corruption but we still have multiple agencies tasked with trying to find and prosecute bad actors.

We can't "solve" state sponsored cyber criminals but we still expend massive amounts of resources tasked with trying to find and block the bad actors.

 We can't "solve" cheating in games, but god game companies recognize that they have an obligation to make their best, good faith, effort to find and block the bad actors.

Some game companies take that obligation seriously, Snail/WC does not.

2 hours ago, parazight said:

You think Wildcard is going to be able to do anything substantial?  HAHA

They could, but they won't, not when the CEO of Snail leads a clan of cheaters.

2 hours ago, parazight said:

Maybe one day gaming companies will implement AI anti cheat tech, but not anytime soon.

AI isn't going to "solve" cheating, because the cheaters will also be using AI.

 

Cheating has never been "solved" and it's never going to be "solved", it's an ongoing fight between good actors and bad actors that will never end, which is why it's so important to not give up. Your nihilistic argument that people shouldn't even try is a failed argument from the beginning. In spite of that reality that cheating will always exist, everyone who cares about cheating still has an obligation to fight against it. If you give up and stop fighting the bad actors then they just win by default. Fighting against cheating is an on-going effort that never stops, never ends, but it still should be done, and players have the right to expect a game company to make their best, good faith, effort.

The problem here is that the bad actors are inside the house, that's the root cause of the failure to do a better job of stopping cheating.

[parazight]

On 1/16/2024 at 7:14 AM, Pipinghot said:

What people do expect a game publisher to make a good faith effort, to do the absolute best they can in order to try to prevent and minimize cheating, and Snail/WC fails to meet that standard.

How did they fail to meet that standard?  They have a contract with BattleEye.  What did they not accomplish on their end?  Further, explain what they can do in order to reduce issues.  You've slandered the company without detail here.  Provide anything substantial in the way of evidence that is within their scope.  Please enlighten me with actual evidence.

I see that you've latched onto the word 'solve' and you're going with the nihilism label.  Adorable.  

It is simply unreasonable to expect more than what WC has given on Official Servers.  This is a problem that exists in every game like this.  It's simply unreasonable to think WC will be able to stop the cheaters when no one else has.  It's unreasonable to believe that WC doesn't care, regardless of the past behavior.  This is a business entity.   Caring about the product is on the short list of priorities within the company.  Their decision making is also on par with exactly what other game companies are doing.  

On 1/16/2024 at 7:14 AM, Pipinghot said:

everyone who cares about cheating still has an obligation to fight against it.

Bro, I care about not having to deal with cheaters because I don't cheat.  Are you seriously telling me that I have an obligation to fight cheaters?  Because I have a job and family to take of.   

What have you done lately to fight cheating?

[Pipinghot]

15 hours ago, parazight said:

How did they fail to meet that standard?

1) You could start by reading the OP in this thread, "but what ive seen in youtuber video are speed hackers everywhere". It's true, you also have the ability to go to youtube and see examples.

2) As discussed, Snail has an employee clan that are well known cheaters, they've been documented in live streams and video a number of times. Easy to find if you bother to look. It should be pretty darn obvious that when the publisher has their own clan of cheaters they're going to fail to meet any reasonable standard for cheating prevention. If that logic isn't self-evident then you're probably never going to understand.

15 hours ago, parazight said:

They have a contract with BattleEye.

BattleEye is basically security theater, about as effective as the TSA. It catches only the most amateurish cheating and does so at the expense hurting game performance on your machine.

This is exactly what I meant when I said "they only care about pretending to care about cheating". Battleeye is how they maintain the pretense, it's an inexpensive way of maintaining the illusion of caring.

15 hours ago, parazight said:

Further, explain what they can do in order to reduce issues.  You've slandered the company without detail here.  Provide anything substantial in the way of evidence that is within their scope.  Please enlighten me with actual evidence.

Let me google that for you, "how to prevent speed hacking".

15 hours ago, parazight said:

I see that you've latched onto the word 'solve' and you're going with the nihilism label.  Adorable.

Nope, swing and a miss. It's not a "label" it's the argument you're using. You have argued that nothing can be done, that's a nihilistic argument, plain and simple.

You know what's adorable, someone throwing around arguments about state sponsored cyber criminal behavior and "all the US government can do is to ask them nice to stop". You must enjoy the taste of red herrings. Yeah, totally adorable.

15 hours ago, parazight said:

It is simply unreasonable to expect more than what WC has given on Official Servers.

In one sense you're right, but not in the way that you intend. If we take into account that the publisher has their own clan of known cheaters then from a purely logical point of view It is unreasonable to expect them to do more about cheating, because they like it and benefit from it, these are not the kind of people who are going to do more to prevent cheating. But what customers should get for their money is the right to expect more, and not be taken advantage of by the people who publish and sold them the game.

15 hours ago, parazight said:

This is a problem that exists in every game like this.  It's simply unreasonable to think WC will be able to stop the cheaters when no one else has.

Yes, it is a problem in every game, and the developers/publishers who actually care about cheating do a better job of prevention and enforcement. That's the point. No one can stop all cheating or cheaters because, duh, obviously, but better companies do a better job of it.

15 hours ago, parazight said:

It's unreasonable to believe that WC doesn't care

Based on their history and behavior, it's completely reasonable to believe that WC doesn't care. A few of the employees in WC might care, but their owners and corporate leadership don't.

15 hours ago, parazight said:

regardless of the past behavior.

Wow... just wow.

Their past behavior matters because of course it does, looking at a company's behavior is exactly how you figure out what they care about. Past behavior is crucial to understanding what they care about and what they don't.

15 hours ago, parazight said:

This is a business entity.   Caring about the product is on the short list of priorities within the company.

Caring about revenue and profit is not the same thing as caring about the product.

15 hours ago, parazight said:

Their decision making is also on par with exactly what other game companies are doing.  

Some game companies, yes, but not the good ones. Setting the bar low is not how you successfully argue that they're doing a good job.

 

Ran out of quotes, so here goes with your last couple of bits.

 

"Bro, I care about not having to deal with cheaters because I don't cheat.  Are you seriously telling me that I have an obligation to fight cheaters?  Because I have a job and family to take of."

You're presenting a false choice, this isn't a case of one or the other. It's perfectly possible to "have a job and family to take of" and also fight cheaters, "Bro".

 

"What have you done lately to fight cheating?"

The same thing I always do, in any game. When it's possible to document the cheating I do so and submit tickets with the evidence. You'll be shocked to learn that I somehow manage to do that while having "a job and family to take of." Who would have guessed that it's possible to do both of those things, it's a crazy world we live in.

Edited January 18 by Pipinghot

[parazight]

When will the cognitive dissonance reveal itself to you. 
 

I didn’t argue that nothing can be done. Basic consumers and WC are powerless here, but you don’t seem to understand how basic society functions. This notion you have that everyone can and should do something, even if they’re an end user is beyond ridiculous. 
 

I don’t believe you have any sort of credible opinion if you believe the following:
 

6 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

Caring about revenue and profit is not the same thing as caring about the product

[Pipinghot]

6 hours ago, parazight said:

When will the cognitive dissonance reveal itself to you.

Oh don't worry, you revealed your cognitive dissonance right from the beginning.

6 hours ago, parazight said:

I didn’t argue that nothing can be done. Basic consumers and WC are powerless here

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, you instantly contradict yourself and are incapable of seeing it. Well done.

6 hours ago, parazight said:

This notion you have that everyone can and should do something, even if they’re an end user is beyond ridiculous.

And yet I've already explained exactly what everyone, even if they're the end user, can do. You can't just use a magical hand wave and make the answer disappear.

If you don't want to do it that's your choice, but you have to acknowledge that it's a choice you're making. You can't pretend this answer doesn't exist. You're not under any obligation to submit tickets and report cheaters (unless you actually care about cheating) but you can't argue that it's beyond the abilities of end users. If you don't want to do it then that's your decision to make, but you don't get to pretend that it's not possible.

6 hours ago, parazight said:

I don’t believe you have any sort of credible opinion if you believe the following:

Pipinghot said, "Caring about revenue and profit is not the same thing as caring about the product"

 

In the words of someone who thinks he's wise, "you don’t seem to understand how basic society functions."

The world is full of businesses that don't truly care about their product and only care about revenue and profit. If you can't understand the difference then it's time to shed that veil of naiveté and learn more about how the world works. There are good companies and bad companies, understanding what separates them from each other is what makes people informed consumers.

I mean, you're not seriously trying to argue that every company cares about creating the best product they possibly can. Are you? Seriously?

[CervantesMor]

@parazight @Pipinghot

...stop guys... you are stubborn against each other, this only leads to you not understanding each other. Put the battle ax aside and take a deep breath before continuing if you want to have a "constructive" speech

[parazight]

On 1/17/2024 at 9:38 PM, Pipinghot said:

BattleEye is basically security theater, about as effective as the TSA. It catches only the most amateurish cheating and does so at the expense hurting game performance on your machine.

Maybe this is why you don't understand.  You make excuses.

Try to understand from WC's perspective.  You're not.  You call them cheaters and bad actors yet you still use their product.  Great show.  WC wanted to make a game.   They did so.  Their option was Steam.  With Steam comes the BattleEye contract.   In order to use Steam they have to coordinate with BattleEye.  This is basically the only option a small indie company has.   There's no option to fight all of asia against cheating.  

 

Businesses have to care about their product because they care about profits.  That's basic knowledge.  There's a direct correlation.  Why you can't see it is beyond me.

[parazight]

On 1/18/2024 at 10:34 AM, CervantesMor said:

@parazight @Pipinghot

...stop guys... you are stubborn against each other, this only leads to you not understanding each other. Put the battle ax aside and take a deep breath before continuing if you want to have a "constructive" speech

What makes you think we're actually upset?   Why the conjecture?   Are trying to moderate this thread?  Who are you?

I understand the difficulties that programmers and game companies face.  I understand how business and capitalism just fine.  I understand what this guy is saying just fine and it doesn't match with what is happening in actual society.

[Pipinghot]

On 1/23/2024 at 11:13 PM, parazight said:

Maybe this is why you don't understand. You make excuses.

Speaking of cognitive dissonance (not to mention projecting), the one making excuses here is you.

You are the one making the argument that they're doing everything they can and that nothing more can be expected. That's the very definition of making excuses, the excuse maker is yourself.

On 1/23/2024 at 11:13 PM, parazight said:

You call them cheaters

I don't just "call" them cheaters, they are cheaters. It's a well established fact with a variety of supporting documentation on various youtube channels and blog posts. Snail games has a clan of employees that are well known cheaters. Again, you can't just wave your hand and pretend it's not true.

On 1/23/2024 at 11:13 PM, parazight said:

and bad actors yet you still use their product.  Great show.

False argument, whether I use their product or not is immaterial. If they're bad actors then they're bad actors regardless of whether I use their products. Using or not using the product doesn't matter, that's a red herring and has absolutely nothing to do with whether they're bad actors.

On 1/23/2024 at 11:13 PM, parazight said:

WC wanted to make a game.   They did so.  Their option was Steam.  With Steam comes the BattleEye contract.   In order to use Steam they have to coordinate with BattleEye.  This is basically the only option a small indie company has.   There's no option to fight all of asia against cheating.

Nope, incorrect.

1) They also have the option of EAC.

2) They also have the option of neither of the above.

3) They also have the option of doing additional due diligence of their own regardless of what anti-cheat tool they use. Using third party anti-cheat software is the beginning of a company's efforts to prevent cheating, it's not the end of their efforts. Again, other game makers do more, it all depends on how much the game maker cares about cheating. Companies who actually care about cheating go beyond third party tools.

 In addition to the above, WC/Snail stopped being a "small indie company" a long time ago. The ARK properties have made somewhere in the neighborhood of two billion dollars (with a "B"), that's waaaay past being a "small indie company". Are they as big as EA games? No, obviously not, but neither are they a "small indie company" anymore, they evolved past that description about a billion-and-a-half dollars ago.

On 1/23/2024 at 11:13 PM, parazight said:

Businesses have to care about their product because they care about profits.  That's basic knowledge.  There's a direct correlation.

You're right, that is basic knowledge. In fact it's so basic that anyone who believes it doesn't understand how the world really works.

That sounds good in theory, but in the real world that principle gets violated all the time, every day, all over the globe. There are plenty of companies that to make the best product possible, but it should be obvious to anyone who's capable of going beyond "basic knowledge" that there are also plenty of companies who cut corners at every opportunity and do the least they can while still being able to get people to buy their stuff.

Not every product is a good product, and not every company is a good company.

Despite what you think with your "basic knowledge" there is not a "direct correlation" between product quality and profitability, the world is much more complicated than your simplistic assessment.

On 1/23/2024 at 11:13 PM, parazight said:

Why you can't see it is beyond me.

Yeah, exactly.

Edited January 26 by Pipinghot

[BertNoobians]

while 1 cheater can destroy a tribes entire base with 200 members (ours 2 months ago,rollback refused) he can not insult us while doing so because of the new chat filter so everything is under control, stop worrieng.

[Amukscot]

On 1/14/2024 at 4:53 AM, wizard03 said:

wait.......your able to play the game?

At some point in the game I logged off, logged in next day, all the baby tames I put away dead because of a rollback lol. tbh past few days have been ok. Not sure what happened but our server been running ok. :). At the end of the day good or bad it is what it is haha