inposible to defend

[LouSpowells]

2 hours ago, Mwal said:

Now I’m not arguing building your base out of turrets is dumb. But your sarcastic tone about the developers really isn’t needed they allowed it in the first place, couldn’t figure out what caused the lag for 2 years, and then made a major change in there game that will be viewed negatively by many of there fan base even if it does clean up lag. So yeah they are terrible.

Whether you appreciate the sarcastic tone or not, its purpose was to illustrate how devoid of logic the demands to revert the change are. A change was made to the game that renders the turret-blanket strategy wholly ineffective. Wildcard might make balance tweaks, but they aren't going to revert the change. Whether the change is viewed negatively is entirely irrelevant, and these "Revert or I quit!" ultimatums are an exercise in futility. The ultimatum has already been given: Adapt to the changes or quit playing Official.

 

[Mwal]

1 hour ago, LouSpowells said:

Whether you appreciate the sarcastic tone or not, its purpose was to illustrate how devoid of logic the demands to revert the change are. A change was made to the game that renders the turret-blanket strategy wholly ineffective. Wildcard might make balance tweaks, but they aren't going to revert the change. Whether the change is viewed negatively is entirely irrelevant, and these "Revert or I quit!" ultimatums are an exercise in futility. The ultimatum has already been given: Adapt to the changes or quit playing Official.

 

Oh I appreciate it for everything other than the developers. I just basically credit them with a semi unique idea that lucky enough for them is currently different enough and fun enough that even through all there mistakes and the absolute horror that is jumbled together mess of ideas held together by bandaids and duct tape and bubble gum it’s still fun to play, that is until someone professional comes along and does this better. 

[ForzaProiettile]

It's called a PVP server for a reason. You are not there to play Sim City and Dino Breeding Simulator. Bases on PVP servers are there to be raided, plundered and destroyed. That's part of the game. Nothing is meant to be permanent.

I have seen so many of these threads on this forum lately. People complaining their bases got wiped on some PVP server and freaking out. Why do people play PVP servers if they don't actually like PVP? Just earlier today I was on my server roaming around and I deleted some random, his base and his tames  and he mouths off in global "why you killing me".

The answer is very simple: PVP. 

The developers have clearly run the numbers and seen that large laggy bases that cause disconnects upon assaulting them are both bad for their servers and bad for competitive PVP. They have made a smart decision one that the majority of the player base eagerly welcomes.

[ForzaProiettile]

11 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

Whether you appreciate the sarcastic tone or not, its purpose was to illustrate how devoid of logic the demands to revert the change are. A change was made to the game that renders the turret-blanket strategy wholly ineffective. Wildcard might make balance tweaks, but they aren't going to revert the change. Whether the change is viewed negatively is entirely irrelevant, and these "Revert or I quit!" ultimatums are an exercise in futility. The ultimatum has already been given: Adapt to the changes or quit playing Official.

 

Yep. We've seen it all before.

First there was the Tamed Dino Nerf.

Then came the Flyer Nerf.

Now there is the Turret nerf.

The same crowd that threatened to quit over previous balance fixes are now at it again. These guys really hate balance. It's a dirty word and an alien concept to them. Luckily they represent a tiny fraction of the total player base so they can be safely pushed aside by the momentum of the masses who actually do welcome balance and a fair game. Onward to victory!

[Mwal]

2 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Yep. We've seen it all before.

First there was the Tamed Dino Nerf.

Then came the Flyer Nerf.

Now there is the Turret nerf.

he same crowd that threatened to quit over previous balance fixes are now at it again. These guys really hate balance. It's a dirty word and an alien concept to them. Luckily they represent a tiny fraction of the total player base so they can be safely pushed aside by the momentum of the masses who actually do welcome balance and a fair game. Onward to victory!

I’m not sure they have ever balanced everything maybe you seem to think so because more often tipped in your favor. But it has always seemed to me (and this is why I choose to play on my own server now) that they can not merely balance anything. It’s more like a pendulum that swings the advantage back and forth never really landing in the middle. Part of it is the nature of the freedom ark gives you to be creative but a lot of it also appears to be developers making changes with an axe where a scalpel was probably needed.

[Jabroni]

5 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

It's called a PVP server for a reason. You are not there to play Sim City and Dino Breeding Simulator.

Here we go again. Just because YOU dont want to breed/tame/farm doesnt mean its not part of PvP as well or doesnt belong into it. Large scale PvP happens daily and its absolutely awesome. Check it out on Twitch or Youtube and tell me thats not PvP.

You posting about balance and talking about a majority all the time is also hilarious. Either show me a clear proof about that "majority" you always talk about or stop it. Or maybe I just throw it into my Posts in the future to make them look more legit or whatever.

"Balance" only seems to be a thing as long as it fits your playstyle. I can raise 20 stegos at once and pretty much solo raid any base out there that doesnt belong to an alpha or megatribe. "Balance"

Also Wildcard only makes this change because of performance issues. You must have missed that part because you make it look like they are making this to change the meta.

[Sharpshot879]

Build seperate buildings for different jobs a Dino pen,a green house etc and have them close but far enough away to not be in the turret limit of others, this decreases Dino hoarding due to smaller pens and increases defence with more turrets 

[IamTANK]

16 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

Whether you appreciate the sarcastic tone or not, its purpose was to illustrate how devoid of logic the demands to revert the change are. A change was made to the game that renders the turret-blanket strategy wholly ineffective. Wildcard might make balance tweaks, but they aren't going to revert the change. Whether the change is viewed negatively is entirely irrelevant, and these "Revert or I quit!" ultimatums are an exercise in futility. The ultimatum has already been given: Adapt to the changes or quit playing Official.

 

people have been complaining that more ways of defense are needed for a long time. it is wc who made the only effective defense turret spam. it is very obvious their lazy, minimal effort change has only removed the only viable base defense that doesnt require people to have several members online 24/7 without an adequate replacement.

when you log in , no amount of server performance increase can erase the frustration of losing everything you worked for knowing you could do nothing to prevent short of finding a way to never sleep. if this game is only meant to be playey by mega tribes then it needs to be advertised as such and the game should be stuctured to make joining a pre established mega mandatory. 

[Palenor]

Impossible to defend?

I disagree entirely, the problem is you are not thinking of anything new. Just the same old build a box and stick everything in it, mentality.

All the good players are working on ways to rework bases under the new rules/system that is actually in the game. They are the ones not getting wiped, they are spending their time/effort in making it work, not complaining/shining endlessly on the forums.

Before you get butthurt, this comment is not necessarily aimed at you in general. Some, maybe.

 

[Blobert]

22 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

Wait...building a massive, sprawling base and covering it from top to bottom in turrets won't work anymore? You mean we actually have to use strategy in our base builds?

If I can't use the same base design with 100 turrets as I did with 1500 turrets then I just can't even. This is lame. Devs are terrible. This game sucks. Bring back unlimited turrets so I can go back to complaining about lag.

Maybe the lag isn't really about the turrets?  I trust the dev's claim it is (since they have targeting routines).  My base is about the same size as OP's but I have over 300 turrets (most S+) covering every nook and cranny.  I'd say the best you can cover with 100 turrets is a 10x10 base.  My base takes over a minute to render completely. 

[Joebl0w13]

1 hour ago, IamTANK said:

when you log in , no amount of server performance increase can erase the frustration of losing everything you worked for

But then again, losing everything sure cuts down on the lag

[LouSpowells]

2 hours ago, IamTANK said:

if this game is only meant to be playey by mega tribes then it needs to be advertised as such and the game should be stuctured to make joining a pre established mega mandatory. 

Up until reading your post, I've never met a video game player who didn't understand that - in a multiplayer game - the bigger your team is the easier it is for your team to succeed. I kind of assumed that was common sense.

So no. No I don't think that Wildcard needs to explicitly state that in their advertisements that the bigger your tribe, the more powerful it will be. It's kind of like stating in a band-aid commercial that the band-aid works best when it's put ON the wound. Except in extreme cases, the customer base seems to know how it works.

[ForzaProiettile]

2 hours ago, Blobert said:

Maybe the lag isn't really about the turrets?  I trust the dev's claim it is (since they have targeting routines).  My base is about the same size as OP's but I have over 300 turrets (most S+) covering every nook and cranny.  I'd say the best you can cover with 100 turrets is a 10x10 base.  My base takes over a minute to render completely. 

Is this base from some PVE server? The design looks poor. It would be easy to raid thanks to the inbuilt handicaps you've installed all around your base.

[IamTANK]

3 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

Up until reading your post, I've never met a video game player who didn't understand that - in a multiplayer game - the bigger your team is the easier it is for your team to succeed. I kind of assumed that was common sense.

So no. No I don't think that Wildcard needs to explicitly state that in their advertisements that the bigger your tribe, the more powerful it will be. It's kind of like stating in a band-aid commercial that the band-aid works best when it's put ON the wound. Except in extreme cases, the customer base seems to know how it works.

i never said that biger shoudnt = stronger what i mean is it being med/small shouldnt be impossible. as is the only way to be protected is to always have a few players online and as a small/med tribe that is impossible. the moment they log out all anyone needs is a few stegos and some c4. no amont of grinding /building can protect them more. before it was harder as a small  med tribe, but if they were dedicated and played smart/ put in the work they could keep growing their def. but those days are over. of course bigger should = stronger but it shouldnt be only big tribes can defend.

[LouSpowells]

2 hours ago, IamTANK said:

i never said that biger shoudnt = stronger what i mean is it being med/small shouldnt be impossible. as is the only way to be protected is to always have a few players online and as a small/med tribe that is impossible. the moment they log out all anyone needs is a few stegos and some c4. no amont of grinding /building can protect them more. before it was harder as a small  med tribe, but if they were dedicated and played smart/ put in the work they could keep growing their def. but those days are over. of course bigger should = stronger but it shouldnt be only big tribes can defend.

Good raiders will breed as many stegos and make as much C4 as it takes to get into bases, so the notion that any base should withstand an offline raid is just plain silly. At this point one could easily make the  argument that - since this now puts large and small tribes on a closer playing field when it comes to turret counts - if anything, the turret cap makes it vastly easier for smaller tribes to raid bigger tribes who were once untouchable behind rolling mountains of AI firepower. (And yeah, I know what kind of flak I'm going to take for that opinion.)
 

[Blobert]

20 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Is this base from some PVE server? The design looks poor. It would be easy to raid thanks to the inbuilt handicaps you've installed all around your base.

Its a friendly PVP server.  Can you make suggestions though I'm interested.  My plan was to encase the whole thing in Metal Spikes.  You can't see all the layers of security but there are many.  Basically metal spikes/column walls with Flamethrowers and tranq turrets embedded in them, then the turret towers on the outside, then the turrets along the outer wall, then encased in a shell with more flamethrowers and bear traps.  Once you are inside there is turrets of various types everywhere.  I used S+ glass foundations to create traps inside the walls.

 

I think my biggest weakness is the ramp up, I put a tek gate there now.  There is plant X everywhere around the base of the ramp and under is covered with spike walls.

I'd love to hear your suggestions.

[Arkasaurio]

16 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

 if anything, the turret cap makes it vastly easier for smaller tribes to raid bigger tribes who were once untouchable behind rolling mountains of AI firepower. (And yeah, I know what kind of flak I'm going to take for that opinion.)
 

Actually, this probably should be the biggest concern for any small or medium tribe. You're correct in that turret limit or not, if you're 3 guys and they're 90 there is no way to stop them from getting in if they really want in regardless of turret changes. However it's really the added external instability for alpha and mega tribes that's the issue for smaller tribes.

In Ark, a good offense is already the best defense for alphas, tilting things even further that way means successful large tribes are going to get a lot more brutal. You can't risk some beach bob getting a couple stegos and some C4 so it greatly reduces the minimum threshold where someone should be considered a threat. We could argue all day about whether "good" alphas exist, but they won't after this change - letting anyone build anything is too much of a liability.

It also makes a lot of the "alpha base" spots undefendable, people will sacrifice ease of access and proximity to resources for security. Many of the places that smart small and medium tribes occupied to concentrate defenses and stay somewhat out of site become alpha bases as they can no longer stack 2500 turrets around their box in the middle of field.

The change makes Ark PvP more about controlling choke points, which is actually really cool in concept, but between map design and fliers the most controllable choke points are spawns, drops, and obs. Even if turretting spawns is made against the rules (I think it's just boxing now), the reward is too high, WC enforcement of anything is lax, and it's too easy with alt tribes/accounts.

My prediction is that if turret changes go in as planned, in a way that heavily tilt things further toward attackers, we end up with official servers that are as/more locked down as when server transfers opened up (EA). I can't wait to die to turrets before I even stand up again *sarcasm*

[Sphere]

On 12/5/2017 at 11:21 AM, LouSpowells said:

Whether you appreciate the sarcastic tone or not, its purpose was to illustrate how devoid of logic the demands to revert the change are. A change was made to the game that renders the turret-blanket strategy wholly ineffective. Wildcard might make balance tweaks, but they aren't going to revert the change. Whether the change is viewed negatively is entirely irrelevant, and these "Revert or I quit!" ultimatums are an exercise in futility. The ultimatum has already been given: Adapt to the changes or quit playing Official.

 

How do you adapt to getting wiped while afk? Are you serious?

[Glerian]

8 minutes ago, Sphere said:

How do you adapt to getting wiped while afk? Are you serious?

No, adapt to having a hard limit on turrets. Change your defense strategy. It's a rather simple concept....

[LouSpowells]

2 hours ago, Sphere said:

How do you adapt to getting wiped while afk? Are you serious?

You don't. Whether you have 0 turrets, 100 turrets, or 1000 turrets, if a tribe wants to wipe you, you're going to get wiped. Maybe it takes no stegos. Maybe it takes 5 stegos. Maybe it takes 20 stegos...you're going to get wiped. Turrets are a deterrent, not a prevention. The only way to be sure you won't get wiped while AFK is to join an unofficial server with ORP or strictly enforced admin rules restricting offline raids. 

Aaaaaanyway, if you're the kind of player who worries about getting wiped whenever you go AFK then you should be celebrating the turret cap. The cap just made it infinitely easier for smaller tribes to get payback at the big tribes that have been throwing their weight around. Their cozy warm electric blanket is about to be ripped off their bodies. Yeah, they only have to get through 100 turrets to raid your base now...but you only have to get through 100 to raid theirs. 

[tryhardfg1223]

On 12/5/2017 at 8:15 PM, Joebl0w13 said:

But then again, losing everything sure cuts down on the lag

This Proves The Devs dont care about the ark community. Ark devs have horrible attitude.

[Joebl0w13]

Just now, tryhardfg1223 said:

This Proves The Devs dont care about the ark community. Ark devs have horrible attitude.

It only proves that you don't have a sense of humor. 

I'm not a developer for Ark.

[tryhardfg1223]

9 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

It only proves that you don't have a sense of humor. 

I'm not a developer for Ark.

And yes in terms of lag, you are right it would. But the real cause of lag is the size of a building as i once had a 36 by 36 and it was very laggy and it was completely empty with no turrets

[Ranger1]

26 minutes ago, tryhardfg1223 said:

And yes in terms of lag, you are right it would. But the real cause of lag is the size of a building as i once had a 36 by 36 and it was very laggy and it was completely empty with no turrets

Everything in the game causes some strain on the capabilities of the server, however huge concentrations of thousands of turrets causes a vastly, disproportionately higher strain on that server.  The same server that is trying to also keep your 36 by 36 base playing smoothly on perhaps another part of the map  It all adds up and contributes to problems for everyone on that server, including those that don't have turrets up of their own.

[Mwal]

On 12/6/2017 at 2:26 PM, Arkasaurio said:

Actually, this probably should be the biggest concern for any small or medium tribe. You're correct in that turret limit or not, if you're 3 guys and they're 90 there is no way to stop them from getting in if they really want in regardless of turret changes. However it's really the added external instability for alpha and mega tribes that's the issue for smaller tribes.

In Ark, a good offense is already the best defense for alphas, tilting things even further that way means successful large tribes are going to get a lot more brutal. You can't risk some beach bob getting a couple stegos and some C4 so it greatly reduces the minimum threshold where someone should be considered a threat. We could argue all day about whether "good" alphas exist, but they won't after this change - letting anyone build anything is too much of a liability.

It also makes a lot of the "alpha base" spots undefendable, people will sacrifice ease of access and proximity to resources for security. Many of the places that smart small and medium tribes occupied to concentrate defenses and stay somewhat out of site become alpha bases as they can no longer stack 2500 turrets around their box in the middle of field.

The change makes Ark PvP more about controlling choke points, which is actually really cool in concept, but between map design and fliers the most controllable choke points are spawns, drops, and obs. Even if turretting spawns is made against the rules (I think it's just boxing now), the reward is too high, WC enforcement of anything is lax, and it's too easy with alt tribes/accounts.

My prediction is that if turret changes go in as planned, in a way that heavily tilt things further toward attackers, we end up with official servers that are as/more locked down as when server transfers opened up (EA). I can't wait to die to turrets before I even stand up again *sarcasm*

Yeah I agree but I also wonder if this would kill pvp by making less bases to attack thereby turning the game into little scrums of small groups of players fighting with hardly nothing or hardly no reason to fight other than to kill each other.