Genuine Feedback on Flver V3 from console players

[GavinChester]

Alright all us console players, you've had a chance to fly around on the newly nerfed flyers. This is your chance to put forward what you think a reasonable outcome should be for V3. We are never going back to where it was but we should be putting a strong case of how v3 could look and our justification. Time for some constructive feedback.

Lets start with the fat slow elephant in the room.

Quetzal - I get this is the bronto of the sky but those speeds are just too much to bare. I think if it was buffed to the current Argy speed it would be a good compromise. I like that now you have to compromise between weight and stamina. As a general rule this one is not far off just needs more speed.

Argy - Seems pretty good, if you buff up stamina you can travel quite far. I think a 25-50% speed buff would be helpful to take the monotony out of flying.

Pteradon - These seem a long way off for me, addressing its OP nature through nerfing it so it can't travel anywhere was the wrong move. It should be a scout, so fast, agile with decent stamina. I think the nerf could of been to the barrell roll and melee output but kept it quite fast. I think nerfing melee by 50% and replacing it with a speed buff of 25% would be a good compromise and 25% to stamina. The key is to make sure that they cannot be abused on PVP but they should offer a quick way to get around the map.

Wyverns - This is my go to flyer at the moment. I've put a lot of points into stamina and I can travel at decent speed across a reasonable amount of territory. I like this aspect, its the one dino that feels the closest to be being balanced. The problem is the use of the special attack and the stamina drain. As some people has suggested a separate charge rate for the special attack would be a better mechanic. You have 5 or 6 charges and it takes a reasonable amount of time to recharge each charge once used (say 20 to 30 seconds). However this needs to be balanced against possible overuse in PVP if you can fly into a base with a bunch of special attacks ready to go.

Tapajera - Sorry no feedback I haven't flown it yet.

Please add a bird by bird suggestion of how it could be improved for v3. No flaming, no demanding we revert back to the old stats. Let's go forward with some helpful suggestions for WC to consider.

[eESTlane]

for v3

quetzal - slightly slower. less weight or buff bronto or both. platform still a deal breaker

argy - ok-ish. but probably cut some of that stamina and a portion of weight too

ptera - way too quick and picking is still a problem. if speed stat stays irrelevant then people will pump their weight which seems to be the key. or do you want another stam teardown? 

wyv - too fast and too stammy compared to the other bunch. raising timers need to be changed to reflect for the value they should have

tape = ptera

[Psych0P3nguin]

Quetzal - Perfect as is. I have to get used to the reduced stamina, but My 160 quetz has had same speed since it level 90 tame, so I notice no difference and its not hurting my tribe at all. Actually the anky metal reduction allows me to grab MORE metal per run than before, so thanks for that WC.

Argy - Decent as is, wouldn't mind a little faster stamina regen when not moving., but nothing major.

Ptera - stamina is its biggest problem. Have to pump almost 6k stamina into just to be able to fly anywhere on it. don't mind the slow speed, but stamina is its biggest issue now.

Wyv - haven't flown yet.

Tape - haven't flown yet.

All in all, I don't mind the flyer nerf one bit. I wouldn't mind stamina on Argentavis and Pteranodon, but that's just me being a little picky.

[jcmeyer5]

Argy - needs a bit more speed.  Too slow.  I'd say give it a 25% boost.  Stamina okay.

Ptera - needs a bit more speed.  Stamina can be leveled up, so that doesn't bother me as much.  Fastest bird.

Tapejara - needs a bit more speed. Should be faster than Argy and slower than Ptera.  Has other uses and skills.

Quetz - needs a bit more speed... maybe where Argy is now.  Slowest of the birds.

Pelagornis - needs a bit more speed... between Argy and Quetz.  Also need to be able to level water speed.

Wyvern - good as is, except that stamina drain when using attacks.  That's murder.   Back that down.

Argy is the "base" flyer in terms of speed.  If we were to state all other fliers in terms of Argy, I would put Petra at 145%, Tapejara at 120%, Pelagornis at 90%, and Quetz at 80%.

For the game as a whole, I'd like to see wild speed stats vary.  So I have to hunt for the elusive 150 speed Argy.  Give some purpose back to breeding.  You could also make the ranges start below 100%... so an Argy could have anywhere from 90% to 150% of base speed.

[Harrist14]

My only real complaint is ptera stamina. I like the argent and quetzal weight buffs and don't mind the lack of speed. An an example, however, I had a 150 tamed ptera with 50 points into speed, so I got those all back and put them all into stamina. With 50 levels into stamina, it ended up 200 lower than it was with no levels pre-nerf. 1000-1500 stamina for a high level, leveled ptera is a little silly. I don't even really mind them taking away movement speed anymore, just slows down the game. But if you tame a low level ptera now, it's effectively useless. The nerf hurts newer players more than established ones, I'll be perfectly fine if you take away my ptera stamina, I've got other stuff and just won't use them until they have high enough stamina, but if it's a newer player taming without kibble even, good luck with 150 base stamina. 

[Volcano637]

5 hours ago, GavinChester said:

Alright all us console players, you've had a chance to fly around on the newly nerfed flyers. This is your chance to put forward what you think a reasonable outcome should be for V3. We are never going back to where it was but we should be putting a strong case of how v3 could look and our justification. Time for some constructive feedback.

Lets start with the fat slow elephant in the room.

Quetzal - I get this is the bronto of the sky but those speeds are just too much to bare. I think if it was buffed to the current Argy speed it would be a good compromise. I like that now you have to compromise between weight and stamina. As a general rule this one is not far off just needs more speed.

Argy - Seems pretty good, if you buff up stamina you can travel quite far. I think a 25-50% speed buff would be helpful to take the monotony out of flying.

Pteradon - These seem a long way off for me, addressing its OP nature through nerfing it so it can't travel anywhere was the wrong move. It should be a scout, so fast, agile with decent stamina. I think the nerf could of been to the barrell roll and melee output but kept it quite fast. I think nerfing melee by 50% and replacing it with a speed buff of 25% would be a good compromise and 25% to stamina. The key is to make sure that they cannot be abused on PVP but they should offer a quick way to get around the map.

Wyverns - This is my go to flyer at the moment. I've put a lot of points into stamina and I can travel at decent speed across a reasonable amount of territory. I like this aspect, its the one dino that feels the closest to be being balanced. The problem is the use of the special attack and the stamina drain. As some people has suggested a separate charge rate for the special attack would be a better mechanic. You have 5 or 6 charges and it takes a reasonable amount of time to recharge each charge once used (say 20 to 30 seconds). However this needs to be balanced against possible overuse in PVP if you can fly into a base with a bunch of special attacks ready to go.

Tapajera - Sorry no feedback I haven't flown it yet.

Please add a bird by bird suggestion of how it could be improved for v3. No flaming, no demanding we revert back to the old stats. Let's go forward with some helpful suggestions for WC to consider.

Thank you for making a productive thread. Even though I like things the way they are right now, I still like seeing people being proactive and constructive. Rep for that.

and this is how you get a pro nerf guy to give rep to an anti nerf guy ?

[Crows]

Argy - Is totally fine but a 20% speed boost wouldn't hurt.. 

Ptera - Keep them how they are (nerfed) but with 10% more speed, maybe. If they ever get buffed speed/stamina wise (drastically) then their pick should be disabled or severely nerfed, somehow.

Tapejara - Haven't really flown them but they are quite slow from what I can see, but they're still in a good position. 

Quetz - Definitely needs a bit more speed. I understand they're meant to be slow, but 10%-20% more speed would feel better.

Pelagornis - In a great state.

Wyvern - Their speed is fine, they can cover quite a distance before needing to land. Attacks though? Tested all 3 Wyverns (lvl 200+):

Fire wyvern (190 egg) with 1k stamina can only do 4-5 breaths before running out of stam, it feels horrendous.

Lightning wyvern (maxed out from a 180 egg, so has no available points) with 700-770 Stamina can only do 4 lightning breaths before getting drained of all stamina.

Poison Wyvern (190 hatched) with 1k stamina seems to get out 10+ shots before needing to land, now I know poison isn't as strong as the others but yeah, a bit more stamina on all Wyverns wouldn't hurt!

[GavinChester]

9 minutes ago, Crows said:

Argy - Is totally fine but a 20% speed boost wouldn't hurt.. 

Ptera - Keep them how they are (nerfed) but with 10% more speed, maybe. If they ever get buffed speed/stamina wise (drastically) then their pick should be disabled or severely nerfed, somehow.

Tapejara - Haven't really flown them but they are quite slow from what I can see, but they're still in a good position. 

Quetz - Definitely needs a bit more speed. I understand they're meant to be slow, but 10%-20% more speed would feel better.

Pelagornis - In a great state.

Wyvern - Their speed is fine, they can cover quite a distance before needing to land. Attacks though? Tested all 3 Wyverns (lvl 200+):

Fire wyvern (190 egg) with 1k stamina can only do 4-5 breaths before running out of stam, it feels horrendous.

Lightning wyvern (maxed out from a 180 egg, so has no available points) with 700-770 Stamina can only do 4 lightning breaths before getting drained of all stamina.

Poison Wyvern (190 hatched) with 1k stamina seems to get out 10+ shots before needing to land, now I know poison isn't as strong as the others but yeah, a bit more stamina on all Wyverns wouldn't hurt!

Interesting point about the Ptera's pick. Is there really a need for a ptera to be able to pick up at all. Perhaps completing disabling it wouldn't be that bad a thing. Keep Pteras as agile scouts.

[Naerah(Qc)]

11 minutes ago, GavinChester said:

Interesting point about the Ptera's pick. Is there really a need for a ptera to be able to pick up at all. Perhaps completing disabling it wouldn't be that bad a thing. Keep Pteras as agile scouts.

I (and many many others) would trade the pick-up ability for a good speed improvement anyday anytime.

[Crows]

10 minutes ago, GavinChester said:

Interesting point about the Ptera's pick. Is there really a need for a ptera to be able to pick up at all. Perhaps completing disabling it wouldn't be that bad a thing. Keep Pteras as agile scouts.

Agreed... I found it cool that they could pick players (at first) until I actually got involved in "end-game" PvP - where the meta was just Ark Ptera's Evolved: Pick Wars.  Imprinted/mutated Pteras whizzing past auto turrets and Plant X, breaching a base through tiny gaps etc... it was a nightmare.

[Naerah(Qc)]

1 minute ago, Crows said:

Agreed... I found it cool that they could pick players (at first) until I actually got involved in "end-game" PvP - where the meta was just Ark Ptera's Evolved: Pick Wars.  Imprinted/mutated Pteras whizzing past auto turrets and Plant X, breaching a base through tiny gaps etc... it was a nightmare.

But that's not a ptera problem, that's a slow rendering code and turret rotation speed problem.

[Crows]

1 minute ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

But that's not a ptera problem, that's a slow rendering code and turret rotation speed problem.

It does lead into other problems of problems and so, yes... but honestly, I'm glad Pteras got hit. I might miss the sonic speed and cheap pick/barrel-roll spam, but it's way healthier without.

[Naerah(Qc)]

1 minute ago, Crows said:

It does lead into other problems of problems and so, yes... but honestly, I'm glad Pteras got hit. I might miss the sonic speed and cheap pick/barrel-roll spam, but it's way healthier without.

Oh i'm anti-nerf but that doesn't mean i don't recognize there was a problem, i'm just against the lazy way they took to "balance". A cap to maximum speed/level, a buff to turrets speed, some buffs to land tame and better AI pathing/collision would have acheived a better balance. It would have taken more time to do YES but there was absolutly no rush to balance anything right now either. It's not like official launch is right about the corner... 

[JustPaperChasin]

45 minutes ago, GavinChester said:

Interesting point about the Ptera's pick. Is there really a need for a ptera to be able to pick up at all. Perhaps completing disabling it wouldn't be that bad a thing. Keep Pteras as agile scouts.

This is the suggestion that I like the most out of the ones I've seen. If implemented, it would give us an option to move more quickly throughout the map and scout as intended, while also keeping pteras from becoming too OP as they definitely were pre-nerf. Would stop a lot of the complaining about how slow traveling across the map is, while also we wouldn't really lose the ability to pick things up, just with different Dino's.

[Harlequinn]

Initially I was bothered by it. Some friends of mine and I play on a private dedicated Center server and trying to get anywhere on a flyer now takes the better part of our time gaming together, not to mention the cross-ocean treks included some nail biting and "please don't run out just yet" when first adapting.

But I do understand the reasoning behind it. I can definitely see the point of it where official servers and PVP come into play, but i'd personally like to see an eventual option to disable the nerf (or portions of it) in private or single player servers, similar to how you can allow flying in caves in the server settings. Part of why we game on a small private server is the ability to play with broken dinos (I mean, have you seen a Bronto tear across the ocean like a speed boat?).

Maybe "allow Flyer speed point allocation" and "disable flyer stamina reduction" checkboxes or something of that sort in the player settings?

How they would make it so those flyers couldn't get moved over to other servers with their non-nerfed stats in place would be the question in that case, however. Maybe an automatic (speed) point redistribution/refund if they get transferred or uploaded?

[Darkwinter]

Finally a good topic, this was needed. 

[TranqRex]

4 hours ago, GavinChester said:

Interesting point about the Ptera's pick. Is there really a need for a ptera to be able to pick up at all. Perhaps completing disabling it wouldn't be that bad a thing. Keep Pteras as agile scouts.

 

4 hours ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

I (and many many others) would trade the pick-up ability for a good speed improvement anyday anytime.

The ability to pick up a player is very useful in obtaining that first Quetz. I know it can be done solo with a Tape but getting the Tape is quite a tricky process.

Removing the pick = good for PvP warfare, bad for Quetzal catching. The best solution I've seen as yet is introducing "straps/seat belts" when mounted, so you can't be picked off a mount. You could still be picked up if you're on the ground, but I can't see a problem with that because you should have parachutes/shotguns/etc in a battle. It doesn't solve trolling Bob's on the beaches though, which is a pain for newbs.

[YJMark]

28 minutes ago, TranqRex said:

 

The ability to pick up a player is very useful in obtaining that first Quetz. I know it can be done solo with a Tape but getting the Tape is quite a tricky process.

Removing the pick = good for PvP warfare, bad for Quetzal catching. 

Use an Argy instead?

[Bruvas78]

I'm surprisingly ok with most of it. Reading a lot of the threads before this had me in a panic.

The only problems that I've come across so far are less to do with the change in stats but more to do with the change of game play. I'm on a PVE centre map (official) and have been readying some dinos for this patch. I have a rex with about 1500 weight and decent stam, thinking I can run it up to my local metal spawn with my MC pick.

The trouble I have are the routes being blocked by other tribes bases - something that wasn't much of an issue when I could just fly there. I can still take the quetz obviously, but there are a couple of stops that need made, and the time makes it more of a pre-planned evening event over a quick flash in the pan thought.

Still, I'll adapt or attempt to move to a better area (if at all possible). I have a rex with 2700 stam and 150 speed for visiting my buddies without having to worry about troondons still

[TranqRex]

32 minutes ago, YJMark said:

Use an Argy instead?

It's not (or wasn't.. probably still isn't) quick enough to get anywhere near the wild Quetz. Not sure how that fares now with tamed Argent vs wild Quetz... might have to investigate but going on what the results were before I can't see it being an option.

[JabroniBWB]

Really good constructive thread.

Only had time to test 2 fliers.

Quetz: Well lets just say that as is I will be using my weight dire bear from now on since the Quetz is far too slow. It could literally lose a race to a Achatina.

Wyvern. Speed is tolerable at the moment. But "Lord of The Skies"? 

Now it's "Lord of The Ground" 

As long as you aren't using your breath attacks in the air, it's fine. Something needs to be done about the stamina drain. It's far too severe.

 

The UI will take alot of getting used to. In the limited time I looked at it I found myself squinting like a sailor trying to read the text. Being able to customize fonts and colors would help alot.

 

 

[GavinChester]

On 4/28/2017 at 11:47 PM, JabroniBWB said:

Really good constructive thread.

Only had time to test 2 fliers.

Quetz: Well lets just say that as is I will be using my weight dire bear from now on since the Quetz is far too slow. It could literally lose a race to a Achatina.

Wyvern. Speed is tolerable at the moment. But "Lord of The Skies"? 

Now it's "Lord of The Ground" 

As long as you aren't using your breath attacks in the air, it's fine. Something needs to be done about the stamina drain. It's far too severe.

 

The UI will take alot of getting used to. In the limited time I looked at it I found myself squinting like a sailor trying to read the text. Being able to customize fonts and colors would help alot.

 

 

Yeah, if you play on gaming monitor like I do, reading the new text is really difficult. They also need to consider people who are colour blind because I hear that some people can't read anything anymore.

[Uglymonkey84]

This is how you give feedback to developers, nice work, love to see more posts like this. 

Ptera- haven't used for ages

Quetz - 10-20% speed

Argy - Faster stamina regen, and less noises when attacking, sounds pixelated. (2016 Samsung sound bar - mid price range)

tape - no issues

wyv - no experience 

 

[skeeta]

What a good thread. Nice to see one that isn't immediately invaded by the nay sayers. While I do think the nerf haters do outnumber the nerf lovers I'd say a vast majority of players are in the middle ground like myself and the rest of the guys on the thread. Happy with a lot of it but it needs a few tweaks to perfect it. Unfortunately, when it comes to most forum topics and polls the only people who vote or argue are the ones who actually care. Most of us don't bother because it's not a big enough issue to us.
It's like turn outs for elections. The polls say party X got the most votes so they were obviously the nations favourite right? Wrong!!
The nations favourite is the "I couldn't care less because it'll make no difference to me" party. They always win and by a huge margin. They usually get 50 - 60% of the votes.
People have quoted polls where 90% were against the whole nerf but that's 90% of the 10% that care enough to want to complain.

Anyway, I digress.

Quetz - To me this should thing should be slow. It's the Bronto of the air and should, likewise, trade speed for weight. I do however agree that it should have better stamina and maybe be the only bird in the game capable of reaching any point on the map without having to land. Just very slowly. It's RL counterparts did spend a majority of their lives on the wing so it should be fairly effortless for them to fly.

Tape - No experience of these.

Argy - Just right now IMO. They're not horrifically slow, their stamina is acceptable once you've pumped it a little and it can carry a huge amount for its size. Maybe give it a roll ability that doesn't do damage but does stop you being picked by other Argy riders.

Ptera - OK, this one needs a speed boost. I see the Ptera as an out and out scout. Fast (although nowhere near as fast as they were), light weight and fragile. Just able to keep its top speed with an average weight player on board wearing fur armour. I see no reason why it needs to be able to carry anything in this role so remove its picking ability.

Wyvern - No experience.

 

[Volcano637]

On 4/27/2017 at 4:03 PM, GavinChester said:

Alright all us console players, you've had a chance to fly around on the newly nerfed flyers. This is your chance to put forward what you think a reasonable outcome should be for V3. We are never going back to where it was but we should be putting a strong case of how v3 could look and our justification. Time for some constructive feedback.

Lets start with the fat slow elephant in the room.

Quetzal - I get this is the bronto of the sky but those speeds are just too much to bare. I think if it was buffed to the current Argy speed it would be a good compromise. I like that now you have to compromise between weight and stamina. As a general rule this one is not far off just needs more speed.

Argy - Seems pretty good, if you buff up stamina you can travel quite far. I think a 25-50% speed buff would be helpful to take the monotony out of flying.

Pteradon - These seem a long way off for me, addressing its OP nature through nerfing it so it can't travel anywhere was the wrong move. It should be a scout, so fast, agile with decent stamina. I think the nerf could of been to the barrell roll and melee output but kept it quite fast. I think nerfing melee by 50% and replacing it with a speed buff of 25% would be a good compromise and 25% to stamina. The key is to make sure that they cannot be abused on PVP but they should offer a quick way to get around the map.

Wyverns - This is my go to flyer at the moment. I've put a lot of points into stamina and I can travel at decent speed across a reasonable amount of territory. I like this aspect, its the one dino that feels the closest to be being balanced. The problem is the use of the special attack and the stamina drain. As some people has suggested a separate charge rate for the special attack would be a better mechanic. You have 5 or 6 charges and it takes a reasonable amount of time to recharge each charge once used (say 20 to 30 seconds). However this needs to be balanced against possible overuse in PVP if you can fly into a base with a bunch of special attacks ready to go.

Tapajera - Sorry no feedback I haven't flown it yet.

Please add a bird by bird suggestion of how it could be improved for v3. No flaming, no demanding we revert back to the old stats. Let's go forward with some helpful suggestions for WC to consider.

I don't really think a ptera should do any damage at all. Simply a scout. Oh and it should be able to be killed with one pike hit from a human as well as no pick ability