Wildcard Buries Head In Sand !!!!!!!

[CyberAngel67]

2 hours ago, Kaoslion said:

Dino's will get an aggro from a player and then immediately attack players structure. It happens to my pillar's from time to time. 

Classic example is the Beaver, if you're on a Q and shoot it and fly too far away it will target any structure owned by you in the very near vicinity.

[ciabattaroll]

36 minutes ago, Kallor said:

I can shoot a rocket at a wall and destroy it, I can use a rock golem to throw a rock and destroy the same wall.  Both the rocket launcher and golem are tools used by a player to destroy another players structures. PvP.  You don't blame the tools used, you blame who caused the action.

Shooting a rocket at a wall you don't own on a pve server will not destroy the wall at all.

While I don't agree with the other person's assessment on pvp and pve (as I personally believe that kiting dinosaurs to others is pvp by proxy), I can understand their rationale on how they perceive it to not be such.

[Kallor]

4 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Shooting a rocket at a wall you don't own on a pve server will not destroy the wall at all.

Of course it won't because it's a PvP action which isn't allowed on a PvE server.  It's simply an example of a PvP action with which to reference the Golem actions to.  The point of the statement was about tools used.

8 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

 I can understand their rationale on how they perceive it to not be such.

I can understand how people can perceive the earth to be flat too...and should be treated with about as much respect.

[Paneross]

17 hours ago, GP said:

If a Wild dino randomly crosses a players base and agros, that is Player vs Environment.

If a player kites a wild dino to another players base then that is Player vs Player.

It's pretty simple really. Yes people should be prepared and ready for any instances where their base is at risk from wild dinos, but a player kiting a wild dino to someone's base is certainly more PvP than PvE.

Why is this only being directed at Golems??????? This is happening with Gigas and Titans on PvE Island Servers all the time. Fix this.

[Kallor]

4 minutes ago, Paneross said:

Why is this only being directed at Golems??????? This is happening with Gigas and Titans on PvE Island Servers all the time. Fix this.

Because Gigas and Titans can't damage your base in the same way Golems can.  Sure they can still be used to grief, but this thread isn't about griefing but about Golem rock throwing mechanics.

[BulletForce]

Wow some people really do want to live in a bubble wrapped world. PVE isn't meant to be risk free, base building and zoological simulator. PVE stands for Player vs Environment. You are the player, the golem is the environment and you lost. Bad luck get better.

 

If you don't have metal structures then your basically a beginner and therefore your going to be doing a lot of dieing anyhow so what does it matter if its a Golem or a Dilo killing you?

[Volcano637]

17 hours ago, szabiferi said:

Man, you got an immediate response from a big-guy at WC... what is your secret?   Maybe the lots of ! marks?

Jat had replied to me a few times. It just needs to be about something he can actually give an answer to. It can't be opinion based threads. 

Opinions only start arguments

[Kallor]

42 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

 PVE stands for Player vs Environment. You are the player, the golem is the environment and you lost. Bad luck get better.

No, the golem is the tool of another player in a PvP (or technically correct Player vs Structure) encounter.  A base that is perfectly safe vs the environment can be vulnerable to PvP activities.  Next thing you'll be claiming is that other players actions are part of the environment.

You can grapple creatures and drop them in peoples bases, is that also PvE?  You can glitch Gigas and Titans into peoples bases, is that also valid PvE?  Nope, no chance at all, it's PvP.  

Sure you can build metal cubes in PvE to be safe from PvP griefing, but often part of the reason why you play PvE is so you can build for aesthetics.  There is no reason why Wildcard should be giving more tools to griefers, especially when the actions of a Golem don't conform to how every other dino behaves in PvE.

[BulletForce]

12 minutes ago, Kallor said:

No, the golem is the tool of another player in a PvP (or technically correct Player vs Structure) encounter.  A base that is perfectly safe vs the environment can be vulnerable to PvP activities.  Next thing you'll be claiming is that other players actions are part of the environment.

You can grapple creatures and drop them in peoples bases, is that also PvE?  You can glitch Gigas and Titans into peoples bases, is that also valid PvE?  Nope, no chance at all, it's PvP.  

Sure you can build metal cubes in PvE to be safe from PvP griefing, but often part of the reason why you play PvE is so you can build for aesthetics.  There is no reason why Wildcard should be giving more tools to griefers, especially when the actions of a Golem don't conform to how every other dino behaves in PvE.

If your base was safe from the environment then that wild Golem would pose no threat. This is simply a case of poor base design which is actually pretty common among PVE players. If you don't have a roof over your dinos then they deserve to be slaughtered whether its by wild argents, ants, dragon flies or the will of a clever player.

Play smart and the game will reward you.

[Kallor]

Just now, BulletForce said:

If your base was safe from the environment then that wild Golem would pose no threat. This is simply a case of poor base design which is actually pretty common among PVE players. If you don't have a roof over your dinos then they deserve to be slaughtered whether its by wild argents, ants, dragon flies or the will of a clever player.

Play smart and the game will reward you.

Ie, build PvP on a PvE server, no thanks.  If you understand dino mechanics you will realise there are things that can only happen via player intervention, that makes it PvP.  If you don't understand it so be it.

[Rickyh24]

9 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

If your base was safe from the environment then that wild Golem would pose no threat. This is simply a case of poor base design which is actually pretty common among PVE players. If you don't have a roof over your dinos then they deserve to be slaughtered whether its by wild argents, ants, dragon flies or the will of a clever player.

Play smart and the game will reward you.

Read the 2nd post in this thread made by a dev and you will be rewarded with the perception of others thinking you make sense. 

[hsaK]

What about a simple - anti golem defense, like a "heat cannon" which melts golem down to a rock? (not a better name, bring any good idea).

My idea is something like that:

• Only against wild golems, shouldnt interfere with PvP. Maybe an item that solely works within PvE, instead of that many that things and dinos which only work properly in PvP? 
• Cheap to produce for starters (it may be obsolete, once you can craft a metal gatewall)
• Not preventing nearby enemy structures
• Low level accessablity (maybe unlock at lvl 15ish)
• Maybe fueled by gasoline (shouldnt be that hard on SE)
• In order to prevent spamming those needs 3x3 foundations to be placed... maybe 2x2, maybe 4x4 or any other fitting size, idk whats best

What do you think?

Ideas, thoughts, what did i miss? 

Anyone & @Jat

 

[Kallor]

7 minutes ago, hsaK said:

What about a simple - anti golem defense, like a "heat cannon" which melts golem down to a rock? (not a better name, bring any good idea).

My idea is something like that:

• Only against wild golems, shouldnt interfere with PvP. Maybe an item that solely works within PvE, instead of that many that things and dinos which only work properly in PvP? 
• Cheap to produce for starters (it may be obsolete, once you can craft a metal gatewall)
• Not preventing nearby enemy structures
• Low level accessablity (maybe unlock at lvl 15ish)
• Maybe fueled by gasoline (shouldnt be that hard on SE)
• In order to prevent spamming those needs 3x3 foundations to be placed... maybe 2x2, maybe 4x4 or any other fitting size, idk whats best

What do you think?

Ideas, thoughts, what did i miss? 

Anyone & @Jat

 

Golems are bugged and their rock throw doesn't obey standard PvE dino rules.  Just fix the bug, there is no need for an overly complex fix for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

[hsaK]

5 minutes ago, Kallor said:

Golems are bugged and their rock throw doesn't obey standard PvE dino rules.  Just fix the bug, there is no need for an overly complex fix for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

The problem is, golems aggro on structures. Thats not a bug, the stone throwing mechanic is fine. And thats the way it is exploited. We recently got griefed that way, but i have to admit, we were lazy in building up proper defences, so its our own fault to some degree at least. Maybe golems should only attack tribe(!) structures if aggroed by player / dinos. Something similar to Titanosaur maybe.

Edit:

Aggro mechanic on players and their dinos is fine imhO. If you build that way, someone can lure golem into your base, its your own fault (as it was ours).

[Kallor]

1 minute ago, hsaK said:

The problem is, golems aggro on structures. Thats not a bug, the stone throwing mechanic is fine. And thats the way it is exploited. We recently got griefed that way, but i have to admit, we were lazy in building up proper defences, so its our own fault to some degree at least. Maybe golems should only attack tribe(!) structures if aggroed by player / dinos. Something similar to Titanosaur maybe.

Golems don't aggro on structures any differently from any other dino.

The stone throwing mechanic is not fine as it doesn't obey the damage rules of the other dinos in PvE.  The reason people can grief with the Golem is because of this issue.

I'm not sure you are aware of what the problem actually is.

[hsaK]

6 minutes ago, Kallor said:

Golems don't aggro on structures any differently from any other dino.

The stone throwing mechanic is not fine as it doesn't obey the damage rules of the other dinos in PvE.  The reason people can grief with the Golem is because of this issue.

I'm not sure you are aware of what the problem actually is.

You are ignoring the fact, that all golem attacks harm stone/adobe/thatch/wood structures, whether its PvP or PvE. I havent seen any Rex or something else, which attacks directly structures yet. They attack (or at least try to) dinos behind that if clipped through. Try it for yourself: Get naked in order to not lose anything and aggro a Golem. It destroys you and continues attacking structures if it is in range. Then repeat that with a carnivore. They stop after killing you, Golems wont.

edit: and thats the way, griefing is done, at least at our base... they aggro golem, run to the wall, and let the golem kill them. The golem will go on destroying structures, till there is a break where they come through. And then destroy anything within your base. 

[hsaK]

Anyway we solved that by bringing gigas to se. Set them on neutral with high aggro range, get there another tanky dino (anky, turtle, anything which can take some damage and use it as an anchor on passive. Problem solved.

[GP]

3 hours ago, BulletForce said:

Wow some people really do want to live in a bubble wrapped world. PVE isn't meant to be risk free, base building and zoological simulator. PVE stands for Player vs Environment. You are the player, the golem is the environment and you lost. Bad luck get better.

 

If you don't have metal structures then your basically a beginner and therefore your going to be doing a lot of dieing anyhow so what does it matter if its a Golem or a Dilo killing you?

No-one has said PVE is meant to be risk free. The Environment is what is meant to be the risk.

If a player decides to target another player to destroy them by inciting the environment to do the damage (because they physically can't) then that is PVP because it involves a Player carrying out actions to destroy another Player, what part of that is NOT PVP?

You trying to claim people are claiming PVE is meant to be risk free is just you trying to twist what everyone is saying.

If a player in PVP goes up to a thatch structure and hacks it to death himself with a hatchet then that is PVP as a Player is using a tool (hatchet) to destroy another Player.
If a player in PVE agros a dino to a thatch structure and eats it then that is PVP as a Player is using a tool (wild dino) to destroy another Player.

But I can see how easy it is for people to ignore the fact that another player is clearly attacking another player because that would otherwise prove that it is PVP activity.

[hsaK]

3 minutes ago, GP said:

If a player in PVE agros a dino to a thatch structure and eats it then that is PVP as a Player is using a tool (wild dino) to destroy another Player.

I even would go further, doesnt matter if you call it PvE or PvP its simply griefing. Its not allowed in PvE to knowingly harm other players and their dinos. Same level as blocking nodes in order to prevent others from getting their resources. There is a reason, why people cannot build in caves on PvE. 

[myksta0121]

I cannot believe that some people think that kiting is a legit pve tactic. I bet for a fact that all those saying that its pve have never had a dino kited to there base or furthermore are the ones kiting them. Plaese understand the logic here i know you dont agree but its undeniable - The PLAYER has aggroed the wild dino to someones base resulting in X outcome. If the PLAYER had not aggroed the wild dino to the base we would have Y outcome. A PLAYER has influenced a wild dino in such a way that they basically may as well have be saddled on it, a PLAYER having an influence on a wild dino to take controll of it is PLAYER v PLAYER theres no ifs or buts its simply PVP!

The PLAYER in this instance is an accessory to the destruction of the base and has altered the outcome of the game to a way in which they see fit and so because a PLAYER is involved in any shape or form its PVP.

[BobRoss]

6 hours ago, Kallor said:

I can shoot a rocket at a wall and destroy it, I can use a rock golem to throw a rock and destroy the same wall.  Both the rocket launcher and golem are tools used by a player to destroy another players structures. PvP.  You don't blame the tools used, you blame who caused the action.

you cannot shoot a rocket at a wall and destroy it in PVE.

you cannot use a rockgolem and throw a rock at a wall and destroy it in PVE

you can aggro a wild rock golem and stand in a specific spot so the AI throws rocks at you and simultanously destroys structures up to the stone tier. 

[GP]

20 minutes ago, myksta0121 said:

I cannot believe that some people think that kiting is a legit pve tactic. I bet for a fact that all those saying that its pve have never had a dino kited to there base or furthermore are the ones kiting them. Plaese understand the logic here i know you dont agree but its undeniable - The PLAYER has aggroed the wild dino to someones base resulting in X outcome. If the PLAYER had not aggroed the wild dino to the base we would have Y outcome. A PLAYER has influenced a wild dino in such a way that they basically may as well have be saddled on it, a PLAYER having an influence on a wild dino to take controll of it is PLAYER v PLAYER theres no ifs or buts its simply PVP!

The PLAYER in this instance is an accessory to the destruction of the base and has altered the outcome of the game to a way in which they see fit and so because a PLAYER is involved in any shape or form its PVP.

They basically can't understand that the player is using a wild dino as a tool just like they can use a hatchet as a tool.

They ignore the fact that the player is inciting the wild dino, they ignore that they are using the wild dino as a tool.

[BobRoss]

8 hours ago, DESTROYER said:

How would you categories this if I kite a giga to someone's base in PvP is it my fault or is it simply a wild dino controlled by an AI.

it is your fault for getting it there but its still a PVE mechanic in a PVP environment, imo

[YUSHOETMI]

Just another prime example that PvE players want everything done for them and expect the rules to be different for them.  Is PvE the new "Safe Space"?

Your'e playing "Player vs Environment", the Rock Golem is part of said Environment, yet you wish for your base to be defended against it without you having to do any of the hard work? Yeah that makes sense.  Regardless of if the Golem was kited or agrro'd onto your base by accident doesn't matter, it is still a part of the environment that you should have kept in mind when working on your base.

I understand that PvE doesn't require many defenses, but if you have to set up some defense for Argies or other dino's that could wander towards your base then the same applies for a Golem.  If it can break into your base and kill your dinos or wipe the buildings then thats just down to bad base design, even if it was kited.

Asking for it to be fixed is just pathetic, are you saying that even if a random player gets the attention of the Golem and runs towards your base unknowingly, forcing it to attack your base it should just do no damage at all without proper defenses?  How about go one step further and remove the teeth and claws from every other dino, wrap them in diapers and give them dummies, so they just roll around pooping their nappies and looking cute, never doing damage to another player again?

That's the way its heading.

[Naerah(Qc)]

14 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

it is your fault for getting it there but its still a PVE mechanic in a PVP environment, imo

By your logic if you run over someone with your car on a sidewalk, you're not a killer, your car is, and it's the guys fault for being there and not moving away fast enough... That's about as intellingent as you sound right now. When the guys who make the rules tell you your definition of a rule is wrong, you're wrong, that's it.