Anyone think movement speed is broken?

[oTHECHINCHILLAo]

Does anyone else think that movement speed is broken? I think at like 150% movement speed you can outrun everything in the game, minus alphas. I was just having a disagreement with a friend of mine because I was wanting to make a server with drastically reduced movement speed per levl. It was down to 0.4 movement speed per level. I thought this made the game a little more challenging because you couldn't outrun raptors anymore. However, my friend claims that you have to give up other stats to get to that point in movement speed. I responded saying you don't need as much health or melee if you can just outrun everything to begin with. It takes the fight out of the question "fight or flight?".

So what do you guys think? Is movement speed OP or is the incredible speed made up for by the fact that person would have reduced HP, carry weight, oxygen etc. ?

[Rippy]

Although movement speed does get very fast, I personally like it. I am bloody quick at 170+%

Increased HP is barely worth it as it is if you have super strong armour, oxygen I keep at baseline as soon as I have scuba unlocked (and carry a set at all times).

I personally have 170 movement speed, 300 weight, about 30 fortitude and the rest goes in to health/melee. It may be a little too fast, but as I said, I like it like that

[TylerTheDoctor]

I usually keep my max speed around 150-160. Any higher and it's kinda nauseating.

[Jey123456]

my mvm speed is at 232% and while its great for traveling, its also a deadly thing for my own safety. The faster you go, the more likely you are to die to gravity, i can kill myself if i hit a rock wrong xD. 

It also come with a very nasty bug, every now and then, if you die while running at full speed, your body will go ragdoll physic insane and get shot in the sky way out of reach of even flyers. Frozen up there taunting you in your spyglass view. 

Speed wise tho, even alpha dino's cant keep up with me. But im also very low weight, hp and fortitude so if they do touch me im usually dead XD.

[Macleod01]

I agree that movement speed is OP. I have 120 movement speed but for me the main thing is Weight. I have 200 Melee, 120 Speed, 10 fortitude and pump everything else into weight. I have I think 400 weight.

[Tindalen]

Movement speed is not OP, it is a game play decision. I run with 170% movement speed, that is 35 out of my current 75 levels put into a single stat. the other 40 levels are split evenly between health, oxygen, stamina, and weight. I can not stand toe to toe with a rex. My tribe mate with high health and melee can. So who is more likely to survive when we get ambushed? It's a toss up really, and it should be.

[wildbill]

The very first thing I level up is movement speed. I think it is essential that if you can't kill something you need to be able  to run away from it, so no movement speed is not OP, it is essential to you playing the game and not becoming completely frustrated by dying constantly. The only other option if you are slow, is to have a dino kill for you, but you don't have that early game. I seldom level movement speed that high though, just enough so I can outrun a Rex. 120 at first, and later 130 or a little higher.

[ImpureFrost]

Movement speed is definitly broken, Examples;

-When a players speed is above 200, Dismounting any creatures launch you off the creature, resulting in drastic accidents.

-Movement speed cannot be applied to creatures that gain momentum, It does not affect their speed, Please disable the stat on them at least,

-Movement Speed above 500 Causes the creature or player to teleport on laggy servers.

[wildbill]

8 minutes ago, ImpureFrost said:

Movement speed is definitly broken, Examples;

-When a players speed is above 200, Dismounting any creatures launch you off the creature, resulting in drastic accidents.

-Movement speed cannot be applied to creatures that gain momentum, It does not affect their speed, Please disable the stat on them at least,

-Movement Speed above 500 Causes the creature or player to teleport on laggy servers.

This is a little different than the 150% movement speed the OP is talking about.

Some games will have an upper limit that you can set any attribute to, ARK just needs to disable the + next to any attribute when it reaches a maximum (the limit could be set based on balance or on where the game stops working well).

The game is not released, limits are likely going to be imposed at some point, I think that some players are showing that they want crazy high settings,but the game doesn't appear to support them well. I don't think the OP was talking about crazy high settings, and this thread has kind of taken a turn in that direction.

[Tindalen]

My interpretation of the OPs intent, probably wrong, was that he is not one to want to play with a high stat speed and can see what other people do with a high stat speed and assumes that they are getting an unfair advantage. So he is here to look for people that share his opinion as a way to show his friends that his manipulation of the server settings was just. 

 

I do not agree that speed as a stat is over powered as he asked, like any other stat you must choose a way to balance it to work for you. Instead of putting 35 points into speed, I could have added that to the 10 points I already have in health for a total of 550 hit points, stack that with flack armor and there would be very little that could stop me. 

 

I think the part that is being missed is that specialization is almost always more powerful in certain aspects of any game. But also significantly less powerful in other aspects. Don't focus on the specialized path, the defects in the character count as well when you are looking for over all power.

[Crysis_Hunter]

23 hours ago, ImpureFrost said:

Movement speed is definitly broken, Examples;

-When a players speed is above 200, Dismounting any creatures launch you off the creature, resulting in drastic accidents.

-Movement speed cannot be applied to creatures that gain momentum, It does not affect their speed, Please disable the stat on them at least,

-Movement Speed above 500 Causes the creature or player to teleport on laggy servers.

Lol never seen a 500 speed Pter even thou I have been leveling it in speed since the start and its only 250 Speed.

[Janx]

from a game design stand point, there is cause to be concerned about balance if "everybody" chooses a certain path because it is well known to be "the best".  If your game is supposed to support multiple paths, they all need to be viable (balanced).

 

So if you find everybody makes speedy gonzales characters because everybody knows from experience that speed has the best advantage over other builds, then, yes, you have an over-powered issue.

Game design isn't about "what you like", it's about make sure the variety of ways to play the game are fun and viable.  Otherwise, paths that suck are stupid to put in the game.

 

In many games I've played, if you can be the fastest, it almost always trumps strength, hit points, defense, etc because you never get hit/can avoid trouble.  Ark is interesting, in that they've exposed the stats and the physics model such that your disincentive in going truly high on speed is damage/getting flung somewhere.

From a realism standpoint, a human should not be able to outrun some of these animals (like raptors).  It's just not possible.  That might mean that a player's top speed should be limited, and the player will have to play smart, rather than rely on just running away absolutely.  It's a tricky design balance, because as somebody else noted, if you can't run away, you certainly can't fight, and that leads to a foregone lethal conclusion.

 

[Janna3921]

On 5/25/2016 at 11:19 PM, oTHECHINCHILLAo said:

Does anyone else think that movement speed is broken? I think at like 150% movement speed you can outrun everything in the game, minus alphas. I was just having a disagreement with a friend of mine because I was wanting to make a server with drastically reduced movement speed per levl. It was down to 0.4 movement speed per level. I thought this made the game a little more challenging because you couldn't outrun raptors anymore. However, my friend claims that you have to give up other stats to get to that point in movement speed. I responded saying you don't need as much health or melee if you can just outrun everything to begin with. It takes the fight out of the question "fight or flight?".

So what do you guys think? Is movement speed OP or is the incredible speed made up for by the fact that person would have reduced HP, carry weight, oxygen etc. ?

From what I am reading, his friend thinks that when you increase movement speed you loss in the other stats.  So, increase your speed and lose in other areas such as weight, stamina, oxygen and others.

I haven't played enough to give info in that area, but I don't think it would, you pick the stats you want to increase.  If you lose in one when you increase in another you defeat the purpose of increasing any stats.  Why would the devs make it so that as you gain in health you lose in oxygen, for example?

As for the level of speed, I don't even remember what mine is, but I would think that 120-130 would be more than enough (my opinion).  If I want to give myself a challenge I would have speed at around 100.  I'm not sure what my health is at, but I have my stamina and weight at higher levels.  But, I don't intend to go hunting dinos right now.  My preference right now is to focus on building, starting a greenhouse and exploring some.  I need to get on and check it out, see what I do have.

Haven't played quite a while, the flu, life, and waiting, impatiently, for the funds to buy my son his computer.  I'm on single player, so it doesn't hurt to not be on. 

[perk8504]

8 minutes ago, Janna3921 said:

From what I am reading, his friend thinks that when you increase movement speed you loss in the other stats.  So, increase your speed and lose in other areas such as weight, stamina, oxygen and others.

I haven't played enough to give info in that area, but I don't think it would, you pick the stats you want to increase.  If you lose in one when you increase in another you defeat the purpose of increasing any stats.  Why would the devs make it so that as you gain in health you lose in oxygen, for example?

As for the level of speed, I don't even remember what mine is, but I would think that 120-130 would be more than enough (my opinion).  If I want to give myself a challenge I would have speed at around 100.  I'm not sure what my health is at, but I have my stamina and weight at higher levels.  But, I don't intend to go hunting dinos right now.  My preference right now is to focus on building, starting a greenhouse and exploring some.  I need to get on and check it out, see what I do have.

Haven't played quite a while, the flu, life, and waiting, impatiently, for the funds to buy my son his computer.  I'm on single player, so it doesn't hurt to not be on. 

 

no, you lose out on what would have been other stats increasing, is the idea

so, increasing your speed heavily means that your strength/weight/health/etc. won't be able to get as high as they would if you'd have used your speed points in them instead

[Janna3921]

@perk8504

Okay, thanks for the clarification. 

[kd0t]

No I don't think movement speed is OP.  120% is the minimum to be able to kite effectively imo not to mention being able to do resource runs, I would hate those settings it would just mean it takes so much longer to get to something reasonable and so many points would have to be dropped into it.

I can't think of any stat that is 'OP' considering you have a finite number of points to spend.

[Janx]

16 hours ago, perk8504 said:

 

no, you lose out on what would have been other stats increasing, is the idea

so, increasing your speed heavily means that your strength/weight/health/etc. won't be able to get as high as they would if you'd have used your speed points in them instead

I think you misunderstand my point.  At the game mechanics level, there are some games where slamming everything into Speed is always better than being stronger/carrying more stuff.  Of course if you spend high in one area, you won't have points in the other.  But if that decision doesn't impact you, then it's not a balanced mechanic and it wasn't a real Choice.

 

I am not saying if Ark has this problem, that would need to be gauged by how many people do it, and how often you find that "fast" people are better than other builds.  I was explaining to core concept, and how it can be a problem.

 

As an example, in the board game Frag, you get 7 points to spend on Speed, Health and Accuracy.  You are always better off to dump stat Health, because if you hit better or run faster, you get more, bigger guns and more attacks, such that being easy to kill is not a big deal.  The game design issue is that the Health stat isn't valuable, so it isn't a trade-off.

 

 

[perk8504]

31 minutes ago, Janx said:

I think you misunderstand my point.  At the game mechanics level, there are some games where slamming everything into Speed is always better than being stronger/carrying more stuff.  Of course if you spend high in one area, you won't have points in the other.  But if that decision doesn't impact you, then it's not a balanced mechanic and it wasn't a real Choice.

 

I am not saying if Ark has this problem, that would need to be gauged by how many people do it, and how often you find that "fast" people are better than other builds.  I was explaining to core concept, and how it can be a problem.

 

As an example, in the board game Frag, you get 7 points to spend on Speed, Health and Accuracy.  You are always better off to dump stat Health, because if you hit better or run faster, you get more, bigger guns and more attacks, such that being easy to kill is not a big deal.  The game design issue is that the Health stat isn't valuable, so it isn't a trade-off.

 

 

you either quoted the wrong person, or missed what I was saying

I simply explained the confusion that person had about "losing points in other stats"

[Janx]

1 hour ago, perk8504 said:

you either quoted the wrong person, or missed what I was saying

I simply explained the confusion that person had about "losing points in other stats"

whoops, my bad.  it's all groovy.

 

 

[DiloFodder]

all you really have to do to dispatch high movement speed characters without traps is stalk them till they decide to look at their inventory a second and just shoot them in the head with a bow or bola them and melee them if they've got good armor, their health will be low since their points are in moment (trust me, i've been the guy with ~ 200 movement and i do get killed by ambushes more often than i'd like )

[wildbill]

On 5/25/2016 at 8:19 PM, oTHECHINCHILLAo said:

Does anyone else think that movement speed is broken? I think at like 150% movement speed you can outrun everything in the game, minus alphas. I was just having a disagreement with a friend of mine because I was wanting to make a server with drastically reduced movement speed per levl. It was down to 0.4 movement speed per level. I thought this made the game a little more challenging because you couldn't outrun raptors anymore. However, my friend claims that you have to give up other stats to get to that point in movement speed. I responded saying you don't need as much health or melee if you can just outrun everything to begin with. It takes the fight out of the question "fight or flight?".

So what do you guys think? Is movement speed OP or is the incredible speed made up for by the fact that person would have reduced HP, carry weight, oxygen etc. ?

Funny the OP has never responded to his own thread.

The consensus seems to be that the OPs friend is right, movement speed is not OP, although if you do level movement speed way up, you are just asking for trouble, since that game doesn't seem to handle really high movement speed well (high movement speed is broken).

[d1nk]

2 hours ago, wildbill said:

Funny the OP has never responded to his own thread.

The consensus seems to be that the OPs friend is right, movement speed is not OP, although if you do level movement speed way up, you are just asking for trouble, since that game doesn't seem to handle really high movement speed well (high movement speed is broken).

Lots of people don't want to discuss at all,rather just say their point and leave or read comments haha

[Mystalias]

What if all stats could have a 'cap' set on them by the server admins? And have a maximum speed cap that no creature/player can exceed it (admin unlockable so they can move that fast if needed)  Could make for a variety of interesting game scenarios.

[rajy89]

I have 2 builds i frequently use. one build focuses on melee damage and the other is more about movement speed. They both have their pros and cons. I dont think movement is really op. I actually prefer the melee build.

 

melee build pros:

dont need dinos to harvest metal/wood/stone for me, just need one to help carry all the stuff.

can solo alpha raptors

dont need to run from most dinos because i can kill them with my sword

get meat/hide really fast without a dino

destroy other people in melee range and seriously hurt their dinos, ptera people drop me pretty fast.

cons:

I dont move fast so if im going long distances i need a dino.

im not as good in a gun fight

if i dont get the jump on another player i could have a hard time fighting them

 

Speed build pros:

can run away from all dinos

good in a gunfight

dont need a dino to get around the island fast

cons:

need dinos for gathering materials quickly

more reliant on guns which are more expensive than pikes/swords

can not solo alphas without a dino or xbow spamming from a ledge

 

with speed i can run away from crap, but with melee i can kill most of it with primitive gear. only thing that is scary is high level alphas, trexes/spinos or gigas. but i can still kill rexes/spinos or medium level alphas under favorable conditions.

 

The only thing that is op in this game are the player owned gigas and quetz platform saddles imo.

[Igloo]

full movement speed at max level + focal chili + battle tartare makes you run far faster than most fliers can sprint in the game outside of a very high speed ptera. Its really fun to zip around the map like that lol