Turrets 2: Electric Boogaloo (Or, what are we actually doing?)

[Olivar]

1 minute ago, isu said:

I hope you also plan to improve/boost Tek turrets. They should be way stronger than normal turrets (even stronger than these new turrets) for their upkeep and bullets.

This is actually a good point.
The Tek turret should be outperforming any other kind of turret in the game.

If anything their bolts should ignore all armor, cause stun/knockback.

[Glerian]

9 minutes ago, Dylan1602 said:

What is your plan when a stego gets dropped onto your roof and blows its way in without any problem at all? Or when a turtle gets dropped on your roof?

Having a turret tower in the middle as well. Build one on top of your base, then in every direction 35 foundations apart as you can. This can, at the very least, result in 500 turrets, at 5x efficiency, firing at anything in range. The tower in the middle should actually prevent any dropping if it's high enough. Also, the mentioned nerf to stegos should also help. Like I said, there are plenty of ways to make it work. Use your imagination.

 

12 minutes ago, Dylan1602 said:

25 turrets each side would get completely soaked by 1 or 2 stegos, maybe 1 bronto... 

Which is, again, why 100 turrets on a side would not be impossible to achieve. And, as mentioned in the OP, possible nerf to stegos.

13 minutes ago, Dylan1602 said:

100 turrets will never, ever, ever cover a dino pen to store these

.... it's almost like you do not understand the point. There can be more than 100 turrets covering a specific area with the right configuration. Just doing some rough math gives me 500 turrets covering a given area with overlapping fields of fire. And I haven't even delved into the weirder stuff yet, because I haven't had the time.

 

15 minutes ago, Dylan1602 said:

Now tell us 100 turrets is enough

100 IN A GIVEN AREA is in fact sufficient when coupled with increased damage, decreased tanking ability, and any other additional change that might be made before then. 100 turrets covering one side, 100 covering another, 100 covering another, 100 covering another, and 100 covering the top comes out to some pretty impressive firepower. Now add the 5x proficiency and it's like having 2,500 turrets. No, they won't all be firing at the same time, but that doesn't quite matter as they never would have before anyway. It isn't unreasonable, and so long as things are tweaked the right way it could work. Just keep an open mind instead of shouting how it's not possible before even attempting it.

[isu]

2 minutes ago, Olivar said:

This is actually a good point.
The Tek turret should be outperforming any other kind of turret in the game.

If anything their bolts should ignore all armor, cause stun/knockback.

Tek turrets have lower rate of fire than normal turrets, so I would suggest +20% more dmg than these new turrets (5x dmg compared to current turrets) and they should pierce armor/saddle.

If they will be same as now, no one is going to waste 100 slots on them.

[DarthaNyan]

@TheRightHand

Suggestion:

a new PsX type codenamed "red" that spits small balls of molten lava - apply burning on the target they hit (flame arrow effect)

together with previous suggestion of separating limit for different turret type - autos, plants, TeK) and making current PsX (codenamed "green") to melt armor arthro-style

would make an interesting combination of defensive power:
- red for burning soakers
- green to combat sneaky runners
- autoturrets for general damage dealing

[Olivar]

1 minute ago, DarthaNyan said:

@TheRightHand

Suggestion:

a new PsX type codenamed "red" that spits small balls of molten lava - apply burning on the target they hit (flame arrow effect)

together with previous suggestion of separating limit for different turret type - autos, plants, TeK) and making current PsX (codenamed "green") to melt armor arthro-style

would make an interesting combination of defensive power:
- red for burning soakers
- green to combat sneaky runners
- autoturrets for general damage dealing

The more I'm reading this, the more confusing it gets....

[Vaskur]

but what will happen to Plant-X? will they be reworked or also included in the knockback buff? Will there be a way to Buff them or upgrade them? 

just thinking about all the people on prim +, who don´t have the option of classic autoturrets

[Tanek]

5 hours ago, ciabattaroll said:

They very literally said in the previous turret thread that these turret clumping performance issues weren't even a blip on their radar pre-launch. How do you propose they fix a problem that didn't even present itself?

I still wonder about this a little. If turrets "cost" twice as much as everything else in the whole game¹ , it seems strange to me that it was not an issue long before last month. I have been looking around trying to determine what may have changed since launch and, so far, I don't see talk of a new turret "meta" where 7x more are being used than before.

And, if this is something that is so new, and the changes are to bring things back in line, why would defense of a base be so very different than it was back in the summer?

I mean, I don't doubt that turrets are a problem, but I don't understand why they were not before.

Sounds like the new ideas for balancing it are coming along, though, and it has only been a couple of days. That gives hope for the changes being more accepted when they go in than something like the sudden bird nerf.

 

¹As noted in this comment

 

[DarthaNyan]

15 minutes ago, Olivar said:

The more I'm reading this, the more confusing it gets....

Basically have a second Plant Species X (Z?) that would apply a burn to targets it hits.

[Dylan1602]

19 minutes ago, Glerian said:

100 IN A GIVEN AREA is in fact sufficient when coupled with increased damage, decreased tanking ability, and any other additional change that might be made before then. 100 turrets covering one side, 100 covering another, 100 covering another, 100 covering another, and 100 covering the top comes out to some pretty impressive firepower. Now add the 5x proficiency and it's like having 2,500 turrets. No, they won't all be firing at the same time, but that doesn't quite matter as they never would have before anyway. It isn't unreasonable, and so long as things are tweaked the right way it could work. Just keep an open mind instead of shouting how it's not possible before even attempting it.

Okay, how do you cover air and ground at the same time with your turrets covering each side because even if they do nerf tanking dinos, it will not take much to take down one of your sides if you want to cover air and ground. Because if you don't cover air, there will be griffins sitting sniping. If you do cover air, the ground will be weaker so I will drain your turrets and blow your tower up. Then I have complete free roam of this side because your other 300-400 turrets are now useless are all out of range and won't have any effect on the raid. Also you understand the size of the area you will have to occupy to make this happen? I don't think you have thought of the logistics of what you're suggesting at all.

[bigfish502]

I think these new turrets should have the special capability to, on the rare occasion, shoot a shocking round that shocks a dino and potentially dismounts the player.

[CobraD]

48 minutes ago, bigfish502 said:

I think these new turrets should have the special capability to, on the rare occasion, shoot a shocking round that shocks a dino and potentially dismounts the player.

Turrets can already be set to target the rider and kill them .

 

[bigfish502]

3 minutes ago, CobraD said:

Turrets can already be set to target the rider and kill them .

 

Yes they can but people can easily counter this with stego armor plates and in the case of platform brontos with a foundation or box where the driver is sitting.

[Eyesnthedark]

I think this is a good start, yet untested. I think one thing to add for defense is to make all dino's headshottable and make all auto's always headshot if possible. This would force players to move dinos in slowly in reverse and limit the ability to place c4 on a wall from the mount of a stego.

 

[CobraD]

1 minute ago, bigfish502 said:

Yes they can but people can easily counter this with stego armor plates and in the case of platform brontos with a foundation or box where the driver is sitting.

depends on where you put the turrets, you can still get shot off a steg, plus they're making changes to the stego to make them less resistant. besides shock ammo won't do any good with a bronto because even if dismonts them they can still just remount inside the box they built

[bigfish502]

Just now, CobraD said:

depends on where you put the turrets, you can still get shot off a steg, plus they're making changes to the stego to make them less resistant. besides shock ammo won't do any good with a bronto because even if dismonts them they can still just remount inside the box they built

If it operates like any other dismounting effect in the game then it would prevent players from remounting their dino for a few seconds, which can slow the advance of turret soakers and give the defenders some time to react and take advantage of the vulnerability.

[CobraD]

1 minute ago, bigfish502 said:

If it operates like any other dismounting effect in the game then it would prevent players from remounting their dino for a few seconds, which can slow the advance of turret soakers and give the defenders some time to react and take advantage of the vulnerability.

i'm not saying it's a bad idea, i'm just saying it won't be as effective as you think it might be.

[BUNK4545]

The issue is, when you added the new option to turrets, to shoot survivors or mounted tames... I can have 8 turrets, 4 set to players or tamed creatures, and 4 set to survivors or mounted creatures... When I spyglass each turret, the players or tamed creatures turrets are fine... The survivors or mounted creatures turrets immediately drop fps... Legacy had 10x the turrets we have now, and never had near the problems we see today... 

 

You stated the problem started around October, and umm, you added this new turret feature around October? Turn that feature off, the problem goes away... Focus optimization on that feature maybe?

[Olivar]

1 hour ago, DarthaNyan said:

Basically have a second Plant Species X (Z?) that would apply a burn to targets it hits.

That made more sense
Thank you for clarifying that.
I'm definitely for such a plant

[Goaty]

Basically have a second Plant Species X (Z?) that would apply a burn to targets it hits.

Or maybe a plant that emits radiation (cause Abberation) it would ignore all armor and do dmg in a radius. But idk how exactly you would have to balance it.

[benreel]

can we get one week of 1:1 materials return on grinding up our old turrets?   their going to be basically completely worthless now..    and we REALLY have thousands of hours into making them.

[Meshi]

10 minutes ago, benreel said:

can we get one week of 1:1 materials return on grinding up our old turrets?   their going to be basically completely worthless now..    and we REALLY have thousands of hours into making them.

Well, you can just grind turrets when it hits and get at least half of resources. Bullets can be dump into turrets which will left because they will have increased capacity. It's not 1:1 but its not totally lost neither.

[CobraD]

4 minutes ago, Meshi said:

Well, you can just grind turrets when it hits and get at least half of resources. Bullets can be dump into turrets which will left because they will have increased capacity. It's not 1:1 but its not totally lost neither.

Plus the grinder turrets can be use for helping make the new turrets.

[voldrafix]

9 hours ago, ciabattaroll said:

I get your concern about coverage, but their concern is on server performance/framerate. With that in mind I don't see how telling them to let you spam turrets helps fix their concerns.

their concern is the server performance that is being effected by base lag. Base lag wont be fixed by this patch, whatever is lossed in defence will be replaced by thick honeycombed walls and spikes. Base lag is base lag, no one should be complaining so much about it. Also this new turret is not a solution, the problem is indeed the amount of coverage and dps in an area. The 10k unit is about 35 foundations in a radius. that is a huge distance between large turret towers. if they went 5k-7k instead there would be alot less complaints. As well as increased the number of turrets to 200 but given the 4x buff of the new turret i guess they could get away with a lower amount on the turrets per space. However a new turret or turret buff in no way solves the concern of how secure i can cover my base from griefers. All in all, this patch is in no way a real solution, base lag is base lag. If its not caused by turrets, it will be caused by the rendering in of 5 thick walls, overlapped ceilings, and structures meant to just slow people down as well as take up more map space.

[benreel]

what about removing the ability to place c4 and shoot rockets while riding dinos?     The fact that you can get on a stego,   walk up  to a wall of 500 turrets,  place c4 and walk way is broken AF.   

[natman]

I am a bit disappointed that you chose the easy route of fighting symptoms again instead of working on the causes It will be only a matter of time until the next symptoms show up, because the design of the game has become self destructive.