PuffyPony Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 There needs to be more changes implemented for a server wipe to really be effective, but I think an official launch wipe would do the game a lot of good. Personally, I might even consider playing officials again if Wildcard can work out the kinks of preventing the meta from swarming right back to its pre-wipe state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneyDiagram2008 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, electricblooz said: As I said earlier, every day I'm leaning more towards the pro-wipe camp; but, let me tell you, simplistic structure limits and tame caps aren't going to solve the overarching issue in this game which is that cost does not scale with benefit. There is literally zero cost to maintain a mega-base once you have built it. This works to encourage the building of mega-bases. Not to be combative, but while I was typing that first paragraph, I came up with a "hack" to get around your structure limits. A larger tribe builds a base and reaches the structure limit but wants to build more. One of their members creates a scratch character, spawns and makes their way next to their base. They feed him finished building products and he builds as close to the existing base as possible. Once he builds out what they want, he creates a tribe and then merges it with the previous. Wash, rinse, repeat. Yes, the "bases" will be slight disconnected due to placement limits, but let's be realistic, how much of a loss is it, especially if it's snuggled right up against the other? Tame limits can be avoided the same way. The only way to avoid the above would be to add code that checked structure and tame limits as prerequisites to allowing a tribal merger and I can guarantee they don't want to do that because they want to encourage tribal politics. I dunno, perhaps there shouldn't be PVE. That would suck and it would mean that I would leave the game, but I don't think the devs have the levers to effectively balance PVE in the current system. In this game the only natural check against man is man, and PVE takes that away. I think I'll go make a topic in game suggestions - follow me there if you want. Welcome aboard, the camp is filling up fast though so it will be decision time soon lol nah but yeah there are many different reasons why a lot of people want a wipe. all of them are good reasons and regardless of why you want it, it needs to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, StoneyDiagram2008 said: I can see those screen shots can you pm them to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 25 minutes ago, PuffyPony said: There needs to be more changes implemented for a server wipe to really be effective, but I think an official launch wipe would do the game a lot of good. Personally, I might even consider playing officials again if Wildcard can work out the kinks of preventing the meta from swarming right back to its pre-wipe state You are very correct. As simple wipe wouldn't just do the trick. Aloft of changes do need to be made I will completely agree with that. The end outcome is a wipe still needs to happen after the changes have been made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coggage Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Jeremy Drake Stieglitz [developer] 24 Jun, 2016 @ 12:52pm "Here is the final word on the matter: we will **not** be wiping the Official Servers on ARK's release (and as mentioned, we will do everything in our power to ever avoid wiping -- we all felt the sting from the launch duping bug all too well)." (Extract from the full post at http://steamcommunity.com/app/346110/discussions/7/343787283759101650/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricblooz Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Coggage said: Jeremy Drake Stieglitz [developer] 24 Jun, 2016 @ 12:52pm "Here is the final word on the matter: we will **not** be wiping the Official Servers on ARK's release (and as mentioned, we will do everything in our power to ever avoid wiping -- we all felt the sting from the launch duping bug all too well)." (Extract from the full post at http://steamcommunity.com/app/346110/discussions/7/343787283759101650/ This was discussed ad nauseum about 10-15 pages ago. That was the "final word" at the time (over a year ago). Things have changed since then and even Jat has said that what was true then isn't "necessarily" true now. Do you think if the answer was that easy we'd still be talking about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrallox Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, electricblooz said: As I said earlier, every day I'm leaning more towards the pro-wipe camp; but, let me tell you, simplistic structure limits and tame caps aren't going to solve the overarching issue in this game which is that cost does not scale with benefit. There is literally zero cost to maintain a mega-base once you have built it. This works to encourage the building of mega-bases. Not to be combative, but while I was typing that first paragraph, I came up with a "hack" to get around your structure limits. A larger tribe builds a base and reaches the structure limit but wants to build more. One of their members creates a scratch character, spawns and makes their way next to their base. They feed him finished building products and he builds as close to the existing base as possible. Once he builds out what they want, he creates a tribe and then merges it with the previous. Wash, rinse, repeat. Yes, the "bases" will be slight disconnected due to placement limits, but let's be realistic, how much of a loss is it, especially if it's snuggled right up against the other? Tame limits can be avoided the same way. The only way to avoid the above would be to add code that checked structure and tame limits as prerequisites to allowing a tribal merger and I can guarantee they don't want to do that because they want to encourage tribal politics. I dunno, perhaps there shouldn't be PVE. That would suck and it would mean that I would leave the game, but I don't think the devs have the levers to effectively balance PVE in the current system. In this game the only natural check against man is man, and PVE takes that away. I think I'll go make a topic in game suggestions - follow me there if you want. Oh it's much more simpler than that. If you're allied with a tribe you can have structures clipping into theirs. Just build right up against them. Hell I was thinking about a possible alliance building the other day. With ramps you could connect the structures together to form one multi-tribe structure. Pretty much anything the devs implement has a workaround waiting for players to find. It's one of the many reasons why a wipe won't actually solve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricblooz Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Vrallox said: Oh it's much more simpler than that. If you're allied with a tribe you can have structures clipping into theirs. Just build right up against them. Hell I was thinking about a possible alliance building the other day. With ramps you could connect the structures together to form one multi-tribe structure. Pretty much anything the devs implement has a workaround waiting for players to find. It's one of the many reasons why a wipe won't actually solve anything. eh - as a one man tribe I didn't know that. But that fact that a wipe won't solve anything, in and of itself, is no reason to leave things the absolutely FUBAR'd way they are now. at the very least, the wipe would reset the clock on everyone to zero so that brand new players on release day don't walk into wastelands.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGCookies Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, Vrallox said: Oh it's much more simpler than that. If you're allied with a tribe you can have structures clipping into theirs. Just build right up against them. Hell I was thinking about a possible alliance building the other day. With ramps you could connect the structures together to form one multi-tribe structure. Pretty much anything the devs implement has a workaround waiting for players to find. It's one of the many reasons why a wipe won't actually solve anything. Exactly wiping isn't the answer we will be right back where we are now in a month or less and same people will be here crying about who knows what by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrallox Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, electricblooz said: eh - as a one man tribe I didn't know that. But that fact that a wipe won't solve anything, in and of itself, is no reason to leave things the absolutely FUBAR'd way they are now. at the very least, the wipe would reset the clock on everyone to zero so that brand new players on release day don't walk into wastelands.... Funny you should say that. My official server already has several groups forming with that in mind. The one I'm in is simply going to retake the areas that we currently own. Most of the others are going to pillar the crap out of whatever they can get their hands on. And all the new players will be too busy trying to survive to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Whats wrong with large structures? Half the fun of the game is building new and different bases. The problem is the people laying pillars around for miles. Look the Island is a big place with tons of building areas. I've played this game for over 3200 hours and other people on my server well over 5k. Wiping the servers will definitely be a low blow especially after they said they wouldn't but it won't be the end of the world. I would like an answer about it though... People who have put that much time in this game and have gone through hell and high water with DC's, bugs, rollbacks, and god knows much more deserve some answer sooner rather then later. Taming all the Dino's and starting a guy back at level one I can handle but I put a TON of work into my base. I would be more disappointed about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricblooz Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ringo said: Whats wrong with large structures? Half the fun of the game is building new and different bases. Nothing is wrong with megabases in and of themselves; in some cases they are necessary given the problems with clipping and dino AOE attacks. But as I pointed out a couple of pages ago, in detail, Without natural constraints it is the nature of almost every person to claim as much as possible, even if they do not need it. (case in point, on my server there is an enclosure, fully pillared on the inside, that takes up @5% of the total space on the map for one (1!) building in the middle.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, electricblooz said: eh - as a one man tribe I didn't know that. But that fact that a wipe won't solve anything, in and of itself, is no reason to leave things the absolutely FUBAR'd way they are now. at the very least, the wipe would reset the clock on everyone to zero so that brand new players on release day don't walk into wastelands.... A wipe will fix plenty. Other things need to be changed as well but after those changes a wipe still needs to happen. people will find it won't be as easy to build up as the think. Delusions of grandeur really. It will take them months and by then all the new players will have some experience under their belt and would have been able to have some fun until then. p.s. Had to go on twitter(haven't been on it in years ?) and tell Chris he was wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricblooz Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 27 minutes ago, Volcano637 said: people will find it won't be as easy to build up as the think. Delusions of grandeur really. It will take them months and by then all the new players will have some experience under their belt and would have been able to have some fun until then. I disagree with you here - an organized team of 5 people only needs to collectively get to level 7 to begin spamming wooden dino gates (50 engram points required to travel down the wooden dino gate tree and level 7 provides 56 points. It takes a cumulative 190 XP to reach level 7 (which can be generated by crafting 158 cloth hats.) I can't find an estimate in the wiki of how long it would take to craft such hats, but it CAN'T be more than a hour or two. Once they can spam gates they can start claiming land because, barring PVP or and errant dino attack, nothing will ever happen to those gates. PLUS, the gates can be economically replaced with stone as they continue to progress. As we know Lebensraum has repercussions. A further thought I live by Far Peak in the north so I can grind the metal nodes at the SE base and the crystal on top. As an expereince, I'd love to know how fast a new team of five people could gate off the entire peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGCookies Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 25 minutes ago, Volcano637 said: A wipe will fix plenty. Other things need to be changed as well but after those changes a wipe still needs to happen. people will find it won't be as easy to build up as the think. Delusions of grandeur really. It will take them months and by then all the new players will have some experience under their belt and would have been able to have some fun until then. p.s. Had to go on twitter(haven't been on it in years ?) and tell Chris he was wrong ? I think you highly underestimate how fast even a 5 man tribe can build up including tames bases and land claiming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge84 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 21 hours ago, Volcano637 said: The people that decided to wait and get a finished fully released game are expecting a brand new game which is completely justified. If the 100 hour people didn't want this to happen it might hve been better to wait u till it released. Volc I agree to a lot of what you say but this makes no sense, at least not for PS4. We only startet in early access because they told us the final word was no wipe on release day. We only startet because we thought, that everybody would have an advantage over us when we wait for ea to end. Everybody had the same chance to start back than, „knowing“ there would be now wipe on release. I think it would not be fair to frack us over, just because we acted according to that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, OGCookies said: I think you highly underestimate how fast even a 5 man tribe can build up including tames bases and land claiming I think you underestimate the other 65 people on the map stopping production every few minutes. Things are going to be crazy for the first week. And also that is considering that your tribe might be the unlucky ones trying to smash the join button and not being able to get on the server. If that happens it's all over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coggage Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, electricblooz said: Do you think if the answer was that easy we'd still be talking about this? Naturally. It's what people do on here. Plus, it bore mentioning again and, you think anyone is nuts enough to wade through every page in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master33431 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 There have always been discussions about server resets, but I heard that there are some players believe server will be resetted on release day. Lets be honest here guys and check on the most important PROS and CONS of server wipe. PRO: We are back to zero and we can finally catch up in dinos ! CONTRA: You can always catch up. started playing 5 month ago, got best stats on most of current traded dinos. You can always use this awesome forum to interact with other people and servers to get what u want. PRO: Good Building spots are free, pillars are gone !!! CONTRA: it will be same as it was before the wipe in 3 days ( u guys been on ragnarok? pillars no matter where...pillar wipe and 2 days later they are pillars with ladders..remove pillars with ladders and there are small bases on the same spots 3 days later) PRO: Less Server lags because less dinos and strucutres. CON: Same Server lags 3 month later. PRO: For release it would be nice that new players have same chances as experienced players. CON: Lets think back about when we started playing. We didnt know the good spots and all I did was trying to survive. Once new players get used to it it will already be same as before the wipe. HUGE CON: Studio Wildcard would lose complete trust from their players. The server wipe isnt urgent needed, just many ppl think it would be great, but they don't see that it doesent change anything in the longrun, except that u lose all your hard tamed and bred dinos. Quote Jeremy Drake Stieglitz [developer] 24 Jun, 2016 @ 12:52pm "Here is the final word on the matter: we will **not** be wiping the Official Servers on ARK's release (and as mentioned, we will do everything in our power to ever avoid wiping -- we all felt the sting from the launch duping bug all too well)." So this was the pros and cons I see as most important, which leads us to my Conclusion: It would only affect our play on really short term and we would be back to status quo. And lets say they do the wipe under the condition that this is a one time thing. In that scenario we already know it can't be trusted, they said the same the last time and evey effort i put in I would be afraid of being wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphere Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Isn't there already a thread about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfeUK Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Sphere said: Isn't there already a thread about this? Hundreds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, Wedge84 said: Volc I agree to a lot of what you say but this makes no sense, at least not for PS4. We only startet in early access because they told us the final word was no wipe on release day. We only startet because we thought, that everybody would have an advantage over us when we wait for ea to end. Everybody had the same chance to start back than, „knowing“ there would be now wipe on release. I think it would not be fair to frack us over, just because we acted according to that statement. I totally get you. The thing is we are all going to have a very big advantage of having the experience of speed leveling, knowing the best base and resource locations, as well as taming and breeding experience. They will already be at a huge disadvantage but damn, if we have these massive bases and bred Dinos there really isn't any point to them playing. Sure they can join a tribe and just automatically have all the best stuff but that won't be fun in the slightest. They will never experience what we did. I am not trying to say you or anybody just doesn't matter but I am just looking out for the little guy here. Hopefully you can see that. and yeah it's all good. It is very rare for two people to agree on absolutely everything. There will be times when we disagree but I enjoy our convos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master33431 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Sphere said: Isn't there already a thread about this? there is a discussion about server wipe, but not server wipe on release day which is a Topic that gets discussed. So I dont like to see comments from years ago or scroll to page 32 to see opinions of other players to this up to date Topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGCookies Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Volcano637 said: I think you underestimate the other 65 people on the map stopping production every few minutes. Things are going to be crazy for the first week. And also that is considering that your tribe might be the unlucky ones trying to smash the join button and not being able to get on the server. If that happens it's all over For one there's usually more people then that on a server just not at one time also I highly doubt all 65 other people are aiming at one tribe I been here since day one pvp and PvE I know how servers are at the beginning and trust me give it a month and we'll be back to square one also I wouldn't expect the huge number of new players that U seem to think is coming and even if they do they will have a hard enough time figuring out the game let alone stacking people's bases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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