Zacusca Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I am fine with raiding. You can't expect not to be raided on a PvP server, but you should at least have a fair chance. Ever since Ark allowed the transfer of tamed creatures and items, the game has been going downhill. Rude Alpha Tribes have always been a problem, because they can control a server and settle their own rules (I have even heard of an official server where the Alpha did not allow tribes to have more than 2 players), but the fact that these players can spread and control other servers is just broken. It has been 2 times so far that I have been absolutely destroyed by a Russian kid on a Wyvern for no reason whatsoever on an Official PvP Server. New players who cannot spend 7 hours/day playing or who do not have more than 4-5 active players in their tribe have absolutely 0 chance of surviving more than a few weeks if the server is ruled by a tyrant tribe. A lot of people suggest that a wipe should occur on the release of the game, but in my opinion, that would simply a be a temporary solution, as those Mega Tribes could redeem everything back in about a month. A permanent solution needs to be found. Hopefully one that not only fixes the spread of the barbaric tribes, but also the domination of the Alpha Tribes on servers. I understand that players who have worked hard are going to be more powerful, but abusing that power ruins the fun for everyone. *sigh*... I miss the days when Gigas and Wyverns did not exist and you actually needed a little effort to raid someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szabiferi Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 The problem is, you want the devs to adress the basic law that 100 people are stronger than 10. When you ask fair play for the small tribes, you actually become unfair to the larger ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacusca Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 Just now, szabiferi said: The problem is, you want the devs to adress the basic law that 100 people are stronger than 10. Well, maybe there shouldn't be 100 people in the first place. I am also talking about the fact that these "100 people" abuse their power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szabiferi Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Zacusca said: Well, maybe there shouldn't be 100 people in the first place. I am also talking about the fact that these "100 people" abuse their power I understand your pain, I would also not like to play in megatribes... but where would you draw the line? 10 people max? 5? Would you treat as fair play when 3 guys kill 1? Also what is abusing power? There is no black and white on this area imo. In my eyes the real problem is the server transfer opportunity... mega tribes would not exist (at least on PVP), if they couldn't transfer raid from their home server to others... owning a server in PVP would be pointless.... but maybe I'm wrong, I didnt play in the pre-transfer era of ARk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacusca Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 minute ago, szabiferi said: I understand your pain, I would also not like to play in megatribes... but where would you draw the line? 10 people max? 5? Would you treat as fair play when 3 guys kill 1? Also what is abusing power? There is no black and white on this area imo. Abusing power is raiding people just for fun, not because the represent a threat, or because they have valuable resources, or because they did something to you. Regarding the max tribe size, I would say 20 is more than enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szabiferi Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Zacusca said: Abusing power is raiding people just for fun, not because the represent a threat, or because they have valuable resources, or because they did something to you. Regarding the max tribe size, I would say 20 is more than enough. This is your definition what is not neccessarily correct ... for example: you know, people are playing for.... FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacusca Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, szabiferi said: This is your definition what is not neccessarily correct ... for example: you know, people are playing for.... FUN You can have fun in this game without ruining others'. Or is that too hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critter Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 27 minutes ago, szabiferi said: The problem is, you want the devs to adress the basic law that 100 people are stronger than 10. When you ask fair play for the small tribes, you actually become unfair to the larger ones... This isn't the American scenario where we sacrifice things for the greater good. This is a video game. The OP is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 29 minutes ago, szabiferi said: The problem is, you want the devs to adress the basic law that 100 people are stronger than 10. When you ask fair play for the small tribes, you actually become unfair to the larger ones... Disabling cross ark would fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvirusl Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 If you limit tribe size all you will get is 10 tribes in an alliance the result will be the same. ARK is not the first to have this problem. Every Survival MMO is like this there is no fix. This is and always will be part of the game, team up or die. You will/can not win solo in this game. Make friends and conquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szabiferi Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 58 minutes ago, Zacusca said: You can have fun in this game without ruining others'. Or is that too hard? Look... you could complain about Counterstrike, why people enjoy shooting others so basically they ruin other's gameplay, just because they have better reflexes, better teamplay or simply luckier. Will you tell a CS player just killed you, why it is fun for him to ruin you? Indeed you wont. When you opt-in to play ark in PVP, it is just like counterstrike with additional grinding element. Indeed, loosing a tame here or get your base destroyed will hurt much more than having lost a match in counterstrike, but if you win, the reward is greater. The game has RPGs, C4, battledinos, turrets for a reason... Ark allows you PVE form of gameplay, where you supposed to have much less challenge in terms of megatribes. Or if somehow official PVE servers are not good for you, you could give a try for a well administered, good reputation unofficial PVE server. Or if you want better PVP experience, you could try the Survival of Fittest gamemode, where it is totally balanced. Just make up your mind. If you want to PVP, bear the consequences. If you dont want it, because losses hurt you, try PVE. Or lazy PVP on an administered server (again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szabiferi Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Critter said: This isn't the American scenario where we sacrifice things for the greater good. This is a video game. The OP is right. I really try to understand what are his expectations. I dont think the game should bring in artificial limits, reducing/removin the benefits of teamplay and cooperation. On the other hand, lots of options are available to chose from, if you can thing in advance what are your expectations and your pain threshold. 1 hour ago, Volcano637 said: Disabling cross ark would fix that. I tend to agree. There is a reason why I dont play on official PVP servers On unofficial without server transfer we even got our intruders, in a form of some bored ppl from an official alliance with much greater experience than us (3-4K players versus our 300-500 hour average). WE got losses, we had no chance to win f2f, they had better skills, better organisation - we just had the numbers. Still we could stand up and fight, and maybe we were a bit "nasty" but we made them tired. Then in the morning, couple of us woke up early and got them offline. Cheesy tactic I admit, but we did what we could But the question is: should we complainto the devs because the odds were against us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awakatanka Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Zacusca said: Regarding the max tribe size, I would say 20 is more than enough. what will stop them to make 5 tribes and alliance attack everything? our attack as 5 different tribes? the max size would not help. the transfer will help if the make it different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobboKirk Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Fair and open world PvP is easier said than done. If its an alpha tribe with 1000+ hours on a server getting wiped by a mega tribe or a 1 man wood hut wiped by said alpha, the fair factor is non existent. Who ever has the manpower/member count will win in most of the cases. Sure disabling transfer would minimize it, but why should they? Should an established alpha live in peace for the next 10 years by smacking down anyone building beyond wood until every player on the server leaves or joins them? Does it suck to loose 1000s of hours of progress like this? Sure heck yeah, no doubt about it. Still sucks for the new guy loosing his 10hrs of progress to a bored wyvern rider as well. I seriously don't think there is a good solution to this though, while lot of improvements can be made, in the end there will be workarounds for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnePotatoChip Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Zacusca said: Abusing power is raiding people just for fun, not because the represent a threat, or because they have valuable resources, or because they did something to you. Regarding the max tribe size, I would say 20 is more than enough. How is WC meant to police why people PvP on a PvP server? Would that even be appropriate? At the same time, though, you probably are being perceived as a threat to many. On PvP, a newb in a thatch hut could be a spy from another server or, if we take transfers out of the equation, a possible usurper that's potentially detrimental to everything you've built. Resources usually aren't an issue for the larger tribes, either; they've got Quetz, Anks, Mantis and whatever else to get what they need. And many won't wait and take the opportunity for you to do something to them -- it's better to be proactive than reactive, in their mind. But let's say they do limit tribe size. What's stopping those larger collectives from splintering and forming alliances between those splinters? As much as I'm not a fan of ARK PvP, this is, more or less, the logical conclusion to a game centered around teamwork. I'd honestly look for a good Unofficial server, if I were you. This isn't a 'Git Gud' reply, but, if numbers are your worry, then it's just the best thing to do. Find a decent community with rules set in place like no Offline raiding or perhaps even a PvE server where its members actively take part in Tribe Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimo Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 People who argue against suggestions like this don't really seem to understand how this affects the game as a whole. Alpha Tribe takes over server. Alpha Tribe wipes any new players. New players leave to find new server. Players get tired of being wiped and look for Unoffical servers. Then we run into the Admin Abuse problem. Maybe try PVE? Nah, because good luck finding a good PVE server. Taking a look at the Server forums here, people are obsessed with PVP. Start your own dedicated server? SW doesn't provide servers. So provide your own server? Hope you got money. Especially if you're on PS4. Or Players start single player/non-dedicated server. Now they either have to play alone or get stuck tethered to whoever they play with, as well as miss out on what Ark seems to be most interested in; PVP Multiplayer. There are fewer people out there willing to be patient and look for the right server than there are people who decide "fk this game". There are no easy ways to fix the problem but if no one is going to bother trying, why should anyone experiencing the problem bother with this game? You're effectively blocking as many new players as you can by saying "Lol it's PVP". But sure, keep ignoring the problem just because it's hard to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvirusl Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, gimo said: People who argue against suggestions like this don't really seem to understand how this affects the game as a whole. Alpha Tribe takes over server. Alpha Tribe wipes any new players. New players leave to find new server. Players get tired of being wiped and look for Unoffical servers. Then we run into the Admin Abuse problem. Maybe try PVE? Nah, because good luck finding a good PVE server. Taking a look at the Server forums here, people are obsessed with PVP. Start your own dedicated server? SW doesn't provide servers. So provide your own server? Hope you got money. Especially if you're on PS4. Or Players start single player/non-dedicated server. Now they either have to play alone or get stuck tethered to whoever they play with, as well as miss out on what Ark seems to be most interested in; PVP Multiplayer. There are fewer people out there willing to be patient and look for the right server than there are people who decide "fk this game". There are no easy ways to fix the problem but if no one is going to bother trying, why should anyone experiencing the problem bother with this game? You're effectively blocking as many new players as you can by saying "Lol it's PVP". But sure, keep ignoring the problem just because it's hard to fix. No they understand it perfectly, they rely on it in fact. If the person quits less competition. It takes a special kind of gamer to play PvP survival MMO's. They know what is in store for them as far as gameplay. A choice to play PvP is a choice to embrace the challenge of everyone wanting to kill you. If you are not up to it go to PvE or find another game. This applies to all game like ARK, Eve, H1Z1, 7DtD, emperyion, etc... Its the people like you who fail to understand what a Survival MMORPG is, that are making things difficult. If you didn't want a fight don't go looking for one in PvP. If you want to bring up complaints about balance or bugs or optimization of PvP that makes much more sense and the forums is the right place. But to say PvP shouldn't be PvP is pure insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewytowel Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 This is a sandbox game though. It might not be pretty how things play out with the mega tribes but it is how it is for now. Before transfers were enabled servers seemed too safe for the alpha there and almost no one would bother going to another server and build up to attack. You could simply just keep wiping people over and over with no hope of them ever challenging you. At least this way more pvp can happen and tribes can have a chance of establishing a FoB to attack or counterattack someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeweyDecimal Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Life isn't fair. ARK imitates life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimo Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 48 minutes ago, lvirusl said: -snip- Who is saying PVP shouldn't be PVP? We're not replacing Assault Rifles with nerf guns. The fact of the matter is there are a lot more people facing the consequences of the situation than there are people benefiting from it. As more people become the victim of outrageous odds more people will give this game a pass. I know what a Survival MMO is, I also know getting face humped every server you jump on before you could finish your Thatch hut and being told "it's PVP lol" makes for a terrible game regardless of the genre. No one wants to neuter Alpha Tribes, I find them interesting. Just bring down the astronomical advantage they have so that more people are actually able to have fun... Remember fun? That thing you had when you were curb stomping a new player that spawned in 7 minutes ago with your Lvl 150 Rex? The Rex you brought with you from another server that's already barren from all the new players getting wiped there? I agree with you on one point though; there will definitely be less competition. Until there is no competition and no reason to keep playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 41 minutes ago, DeweyDecimal said: Life isn't fair. ARK imitates life Then Dinos and players should have life timers on them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCloud Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Chewytowel said: This is a sandbox game though. It might not be pretty how things play out with the mega tribes but it is how it is for now. Before transfers were enabled servers seemed too safe for the alpha there and almost no one would bother going to another server and build up to attack. You could simply just keep wiping people over and over with no hope of them ever challenging you. At least this way more pvp can happen and tribes can have a chance of establishing a FoB to attack or counterattack someone. Yea I mean, cross-ark pvp still happened before. It was just a much different game. You had to go to the server and build up either under the guise of friendship or bring a lot and flash build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayin Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I wonder if Hardcore PvP mode is actually friendlier between players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostabeere Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 "Please give me my safezone and ruin the fun of people who play longer and are better than me because I don't want them to be better than me. They are better than me and they abuuuuse it! Help me!" I really have to laugh at you complaining about a player and insulting him as a "Russian Kid" because he played PvP on a PvP server. Seriously. Why do you go on a PvP server if you don't want other people to play PvP against you? PvP is a place where you HAVE to have MANY people or BE online ALL THE TIME. This is PvP. If it doesn't suit you, or you don't want to adapt it, try an Unofficial PvP or go to PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfbakedjungle Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Is it just me or what? Sick of alphas having other alpha friends from like 5 other servers? so you cant do jack sh**?? Personally i think its bullsh** and you shouldnt be able to transfer items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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