Wildcard, ever heard of weekly updates?

[lilpanda]

Alright guys, enough with the back and forth jabs at each other. There's no reason this can't be a civil discussion.

[Vas]

If I could block that guy from my topic, there'd be no issue but I can't.  You can see from his profile he's rude to everyone around him.  Delete his posts please.

As you can see @lilpanda I know that you don't have to update every time, however this time as of this post, I did have to update.  One user was on my server during, and another was on less than 1 hour before I had to reboot.  She came back, told me I had to reboot for her to connect. A friend of hers confirmed the same thing.  So I rebooted.  The version went from v258.6 to 258.51, so Wildcard reverted an update, which is bad because it shows they should be planning their updates properly, not pushing them out every time they finish 3 lines of code.

This update, required a reboot.  Like several others that have happened not today.  But it is ridiculously often, and needs to stop, I don't care that its alpha access game.  Other devs know how to run their games just fine.  Wildcard is the only one with bad habits that they refuse to listen to anyone about. I grow sick and tired of this "Its alpha, we can do whatever we want" argument. Take On Mars, for example.  Now theres a dev who knows what he's doing.  The game has a development branch, and a stable branch so players can pick one to play on.  You can have the official servers on the dev branch, and allow people to choose if their server will be on dev or stable branch.  Dev branch would be bleeding edge, while stable will be weekly updates.  See what I mean?  Its not that hard to actually think of something good that makes everyone happy.  Rather than "Here you go, 300-500MB two to five times a day!"

Steven-Today at 2:53 PM

probably a server side hotfix, I got that myself server had barely started before it started counting down for new update hehe

Oh my god, more proof!

[spacejam]

It totally is so sucky that they are updating the game and fixing issues. Wish they would leave it broken so I didn't have to wait around for 15 minutes before logging on

[Ulta]

I get both sides of what's going on here. Steam actually forces people to update ARK even if it's the smallest of patches. But I also hear of people who can still go on servers that are 'outdated' depending on the patch...in a way I'm still confused though, especially since there should be a way to disable ARK's auto updates without needing to update once you decide to hit the play button, just to avoid this issue. (I know it's possible but it's sure a process to do).

On the other side of the coin...a more spaced out 'update' would be rather nice...I sure don't want to complain about getting fixes in timely though. I'll take that over the minor inconveniences of not playing for like 10 minutes (though I can see how it's more annoying when it's a PVP server and every second counts. I'm on my own PVE server though so this isn't as bad an issue for us).

Also @Vas my condolences. PvP is hard enough as is when there's no way to prevent offline-raiding. Maybe add the Offline raid protection mod temporarily until the patches space out or until the game is released? Cause I doubt WC is going to change their update scheduling (or lack there of). Just a suggestion as a bandaid until the game is released or until we noticed more spaced out updates (woudl be nice if they did what Subnatica does though, which the two builds).

[Vas]

1 minute ago, Ulta said:

I get both sides of what's going on here. Steam actually forces people to update ARK even if it's the smallest of patches. But I also hear of people who can still go on servers that are 'outdated' depending on the patch...in a way I'm still confused though, especially since there should be a way to disable ARK's auto updates without needing to update once you decide to hit the play button, just to avoid this issue. (I know it's possible but it's sure a process to do).

On the other side of the coin...a more spaced out 'update' would be rather nice...I sure don't want to complain about getting fixes in timely though. I'll take that over the minor inconveniences of not playing for like 10 minutes (though I can see how it's more annoying when it's a PVP server and every second counts. I'm on my own PVE server though so this isn't as bad an issue for us).

Also @Vas my condolences. PvP is hard enough as is when there's no way to prevent offline-raiding. Maybe add the Offline raid protection mod temporarily until the patches space out or until the game is released? Cause I doubt WC is going to change their update scheduling (or lack there of). Just a suggestion as a bandaid until the game is released or until we noticed more spaced out updates (woudl be nice if they did what Subnatica does though, which the two builds).

I have ORP, but it was an example.  I recall playing Official servers in the past, and people would plan raids during patch times because they know not everyone in big tribes has fast internet.  So for me, I spend an hour downloading each update because it tends to be 300-500MB. Wildcard seems to assume we all have google fiber internet.

[spacejam]

34 minutes ago, Choxy said:

So let's take today's patches in to account.  This morning they released a patch, then a few hours later released another patch that was another needed update that keeps players from playing on servers unless the server is updated.  Anywho this is all I am going to input here, for now.

I Don't no iuf you know this or not but sometimes when WC release a patch, they don't fully test it and normally they need to release another patch immediately to fix issues caused by the last patch. Or would you rather play a broken game for a few hours .

 

I am just using everything that has happened before to come to my conclusion

[Vas]

2 minutes ago, spacejam said:

I Don't no iuf you know this or not but sometimes when WC release a patch, they don't fully test it and normally they need to release another patch immediately to fix issues caused by the last patch. Or would you rather play a broken game for a few hours .

I am just using everything that has happened before to come to my conclusion

Here's an idea, wildcard should test their patch before they release it.  Duh.

[Ulta]

3 minutes ago, Vas said:

I have ORP, but it was an example.  I recall playing Official servers in the past, and people would plan raids during patch times because they know not everyone in big tribes has fast internet.  So for me, I spend an hour downloading each update because it tends to be 300-500MB. Wildcard seems to assume we all have google fiber internet.

Ouch it takes you an hour for just 500MB? No wonder...I guess I've been spoiled by fast internet then =\ It only takes me like 3 minutes for that much data.

If you have ORP though, then why worry about what could be happening on officials? I know it's still an inconvenience still, but restarting a server doesn't take nearly that long. And if you have ORP then what's the big fuss if your stuff is safe while you are off waiting for updates to download?

IF it's really just the waiting and stuff then I dunno what to tell you other than have patience or hope they'll change it. The guy already came on and said why they do it, so I suspect they aren't changing it. Btu hey can still hope I suppose.

Also don't listen to people who claim this or that and yet don't actually work for WC. They have no idea if they do or don't test patches. Why would you NOT test patches? It's an idiotic assumption...

[spacejam]

5 minutes ago, Vas said:

Here's an idea, wildcard should test their patch before they release it.  Duh.

Well that would in a perfect world  but we all know that aint happening

 

[Vas]

1 minute ago, Ulta said:

If you have ORP though, then why worry about what could be happening on officials? I know it's still an inconvenience still, but restarting a server doesn't take nearly that long. And if you have ORP then what's the big fuss if your stuff is safe while you are off waiting for updates to download?

Also don't listen to people who claim this or that and yet don't actually work for WC. They have no idea if they do or don't test patches. Why would you NOT test patches? It's an idiotic assumption...

The reason they don't is because we players test it for them.  By force, because they don't want to waste their own time testing things.  Apparently they do have a team that tests the game, but this team doesn't seem all that great with how bad some of these patches have been with obvious issues anyone can find in seconds.

Not everyone sits there at home all day every day waiting for their game to update.  Some people can only play an hour or so per day, so updates happening so often keeping players off when they are allowed to be on, not good.

[spacejam]

2 minutes ago, Ulta said:

 

Also don't listen to people who claim this or that and yet don't actually work for WC. They have no idea if they do or don't test patches. Why would you NOT test patches? It's an idiotic assumption...

Its pretty clear they don't do full test on patches, obviously they do some testing, but if I only takes 1hr for somebody on a official to find another game breaking issues ,

Then clearly they aren't vetting the patches well enough and need to hire more people to test or people who are better suited to testing.

 

[Tanek]

27 minutes ago, Ulta said:

I get both sides of what's going on here. Steam actually forces people to update ARK even if it's the smallest of patches. But I also hear of people who can still go on servers that are 'outdated' depending on the patch...in a way I'm still confused though, especially since there should be a way to disable ARK's auto updates without needing to update once you decide to hit the play button, just to avoid this issue. (I know it's possible but it's sure a process to do).

(NOTE: none of what I talk about below refers to mod updates, just the game updates from Wildcard on Steam.)

As far as I know, there has only been one instance of a "point update" (something like 258.4 to 258.5) preventing players from connecting to a server until they updated as well.  Other than that, I have only seen major version updates (something like 257 to 258) have this requirement.

As for Steam forcing the update, in general this is true, but on our server I encourage the players to set things up so they can launch ARK without updating.  This way, not only do they patch when they want, I can wait on the major version updates to the server until the first round of hotfixes comes out (a major version update tends to have at least one big bug that needs squashing quickly ).

This is what has worked for me:

First, set ARK to not update automatically when you have Steam open.

• Right-click ARK in your Steam Library list and select Properties
• Go to the Updates tab
• Select 'Only update this game when I launch it' from the dropdown
• Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RQIOJG1hGMY/Va4wyfrmxfI/AAAAAAAAG2w/Gb_nkaI0rkg/s512-Ic42/ark_steam_1.jpg

Next, make a shortcut to the ARK executable file

• Go to the Local Files tab of that ARK properties page
• Click 'Browse Local Files...' to open the ARK directory
• Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mgdeqcvqD_I/Va4wyT5xnHI/AAAAAAAAG2o/t-k2JfBF3hE/s512-Ic42/ark_steam_2.jpg
• Navigate to ShooterGame-->Binaries-->Win64
• Make a shortcut to ShooterGame.exe on your desktop (or wherever)  IMPORTANT: do not move or change any of the files in these folders! (NOTE: if you need to run BattlEye, the file name would be ShooterGame_BE.exe)
• Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-etaguou7n-U/Va4wyuG9bUI/AAAAAAAAG2s/nFF4WLmxPl4/s720-Ic42/ark_steam_3.jpg
   

Now when ARK has an update waiting you will see "Update Required" next to the name in the Steam Library.  If you launch ARK through Steam at this point it will start the update. If you launch with that shortcut you just made, though, you can start the client without an update (or should be able to; it has worked in the past, no guarantee it always will).

[Ulta]

1 minute ago, Vas said:

The reason they don't is because we players test it for them.  By force, because they don't want to waste their own time testing things.  Apparently they do have a team that tests the game, but this team doesn't seem all that great with how bad some of these patches have been with obvious issues anyone can find in seconds.

Not everyone sits there at home all day every day waiting for their game to update.  Some people can only play an hour or so per day, so updates happening so often keeping players off when they are allowed to be on, not good.

I can't think of much else to say. I can't even say sorry since it's not me doing this I can deal with the rapid updates and I'd rather have fixes quickly than needing to wait a while for them. If it was spaced out, sure I won't complain either. Sorry to see that you can't cope with it.

[Ulta]

1 minute ago, Tanek said:

(NOTE: none of what I talk about below refers to mod updates, just the game updates from wildcard on Steam.)

As far as I know, there has only been one instance of a "point update" (something like 258.4 to 258.5) preventing players from connecting to a server until they updated as well.  Other than that, I have only seen major version updates (something like 257 to 258) have this requirement.

As for Steam forcing the update, in general this is true, but on our server I encourage the players to set things up so they can launch ARK without updating.  This way, not only do they only patch when they want, I can wait on the major version updates to the server until the first round of hotfixes comes out.

This is what has worked for me:

First, set ARK to not update automatically when you have Steam open.

    [*]Right-click ARK in your Steam Library list and select Properties
    [*]Go to the Updates tab
    [*]Select 'Only update this game when I launch it' from the dropdown
    [*]Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RQIOJG1hGMY/Va4wyfrmxfI/AAAAAAAAG2w/Gb_nkaI0rkg/s512-Ic42/ark_steam_1.jpg

Next, make a shortcut to the ARK executable file

    [*]Go to the Local Files tab of that ARK properties page
    [*]Click 'Browse Local Files...' to open the ARK directory
    [*]Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mgdeqcvqD_I/Va4wyT5xnHI/AAAAAAAAG2o/t-k2JfBF3hE/s512-Ic42/ark_steam_2.jpg
    [*]Navigate to ShooterGame-->Binaries-->Win64
    [*]Make a shortcut to ShooterGame.exe on your desktop (or wherever)  IMPORTANT: do not move or change any of the files in these folders! (NOTE: if you need to run BattlEye, the file name would be ShooterGame_BE.exe)
    [*]Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-etaguou7n-U/Va4wyuG9bUI/AAAAAAAAG2s/nFF4WLmxPl4/s720-Ic42/ark_steam_3.jpg
 

Now when ARK has an update waiting you will see "Update Required" next to the name in the Steam Library.  If you launch ARK through Steam at this point it will start the update. If you launch with that shortcut you just made, though, you can start the client without an update (or should be able to; it has worked in the past, no guarantee it always will).

Yes this! I had ot do this back when I was on someone else's server. It worked like a charm. @Vas maybe see if your playerbase will do this for now?

[Vas]

1 minute ago, Ulta said:

I can't think of much else to say. I can't even say sorry since it's not me doing this I can deal with the rapid updates and I'd rather have fixes quickly than needing to wait a while for them. If it was spaced out, sure I won't complain either. Sorry to see that you can't cope with it.

Hot fixes won't be needed as much, if they would just use a dev build of the game and have players be able to use the dev build and test it. rather than having their testers test for 5 minutes and go "Game's good, send it out.".

[Thorium]

People can connect, you dont need to get every single update.

There are only 2 types of updates that prevent people from joining: Mojor version update, the number in front of the point. And mod updates.

If a minor update hits, people can join. If they can't it's another problem. All the patches that came today are minor versions and dont block people from joining.

If you want to get the newest updates asap on your server, set up auto updates. With wildcards philosophy on update schedule, auto updates are actualy the way to go.

[Maahes]

Just throwing this out there, but I'm wondering if today's version downgrade (258.6 down to 258.52 for client and 258.51 for server) may have caused some issues for players connecting.  

While its true that the client can be ahead of the server version, after all its expected that the client gets updated when steam opens whereas a server needs some admin attention.  But is the same also true for the server to be ahead of the client i.e a 258.52 client trying to connect to a server running 258.6 that hasn't been downdated to 258.51? Maybe this combo has never been fully tested and is having some unintended issues for some players.

[spacejam]

1 hour ago, Maahes said:

Just throwing this out there, but I'm wondering if today's version downgrade (258.6 down to 258.52 for client and 258.51 for server) may have caused some issues for players connecting.  

While its true that the client can be ahead of the server version, after all its expected that the client gets updated when steam opens whereas a server needs some admin attention.  But is the same also true for the server to be ahead of the client i.e a 258.52 client trying to connect to a server running 258.6 that hasn't been downdated to 258.51? Maybe this combo has never been fully tested and is having some unintended issues for some players.

OR typo

[Maahes]

7 hours ago, spacejam said:

OR typo

Irrelevant how version difference happened.

[szabiferi]

12 hours ago, Vas said:

Seriously, this is horrible.  I have had to reboot the server at least 10 times this last week or so because of so many updates. ...

Most of the patches are backward compatible - meaning regardless the clients (game on the player's machine) updated, they can still connect to an older server version without any problems. 

In my 6 month of experience, you need to update your server ASAP in case of the MAJOR version number change. In every other case it's enough to do a weekly update, and no one will have troubles. (indeed hotfixes addressing server crashes are exxceptions, btu they are rare, typically hapen after major version change). 

---

Otherwise I agree with you, wildcard should develop some discipline on patching and updating, it would be better to have updates at fixed time (like on every wednesday) with PROPER patchnotes. In addition to have a better control, it would definitely reduce their workload - as releasing something is always an extra effort from the devs side.

But as a player/admin I don't it as a royal pain in the ass as you suggested in your OP. 

[Olivar]

This topic as a developer makes me weep...

These updates are a good thing.
People complain about anything seriously.
That little bit of downtime ain't the end of the world.
If it is, seek help.

[AlphaRex]

I know right? This is way too much, daily 500mb+ updates and its very taxing on my monthly quota

[Bradley1928]

Its early access, its in development. What do people expect?

I'd rather them patch stuff as soon as the patch is ready rather than waiting a week or a month.

 

Get these fixes too us as soon as possible as each little fix improves our gameplay. I don't care I have to restart my game for 5 minutes or wait 10 minutes when I get home from work. Small price to pay for the benefit.

 

 

[BobRoss]

'Hey Wildcard, can you please stop making my game better and stop finishing your product until i go to sleep!!?? I dont care about anyone else or the fact that you people are trying to work here, you are intruding in MY spare time here! Just stop it!'

An entire year people have been complaining about lagg, glitches bugs and what not. Now that WC is patching frequently to improve all this you guys complain about that aswell? I should have known.

Are you all so shortsighted that you do not understand they are trying to make this game better for all of us?

[szabiferi]

1 hour ago, BobRoss said:

'Hey Wildcard, can you please stop making my game better and stop finishing your product until i go to sleep!!?? I dont care about anyone else or the fact that you people are trying to work here, you are intruding in MY spare time here! Just stop it!'

An entire year people have been complaining about lagg, glitches bugs and what not. Now that WC is patching frequently to improve all this you guys complain about that aswell? I should have known.

Are you all so shortsighted that you do not understand they are trying to make this game better for all of us?

Well... overall I am with you, however most of the updates 

1. not documented. Interesting enough that lots of updates DOES NOT increase the version number shown to us, so wonder what they are doing

2. Most of the minor patch changes are NOT fixes and improvement, just changes what dont really require their own mini patch and could wait. Just look the recent patches - usually half of them are not really useful things (like update main menu, updated host settings menu, replaced sounds), even there are continous changes on the same topc (arena update) what ties together - no reason the be separately updated, and since they are NOT documented good enough we need to constantly test what was changed (I know you are also affected by this negatively in other topics, as by now unsure how the bossing works after the constant patches done in the past few days , and you are looking for someone else to conduct tests for you  )

Nowdays it almost looks like the player's machine are directly connected to the developers version controlling system, and whenever a dev comits something it is pushed to our machine. 

3. The size of the patches... again, I have no problem with it, but looks like lots of people have problem with storage and network traffic (like server owners) - how come that a micro patch with some minor changes requires 500 mb download? 

As I wrote above, it is great devs are working hard and constantly fixing/updating the game, but being more organized would even make them more effective and would cause less frustration among the people. Collecting of the content of 3-4 minor patches and patching them TOGETHER would make the situation much better.