Flyer Nerf v2 will be good or even worst, Jen reaction on Steam

[GEonWAR]

7 minutes ago, Zakius said:

You guys know wildcard doesn't read their own forums right?

Nothing new bro, they stop reading forum post a longtime ago. Now its community ambassadors/managers responsibility to pass info to them.

[Chellex]

Maybe the bottom line on how I feel is that a nerf would have been OK, but only as long as each type of flyer was still effective to do a certain job - not to render them all as useless as heavy flying bricks.  Flying is supposed to make things easier.  If it weren't, airlines would be out of business.

My personal opinion is that the solution could have been to have each type of flyer with a different speed cap and function.  I personally would think of it like a Quetzal could have the highest weight for cargo carrying, decent speed that capped out at 150 because you don't want it to take forever to transport metals and such, higher end on stamina to make up for the slower speed.

Argents could be a bit faster than a Quetzal (maybe 175 cap) & lower stamina than a Queztal.  They're more tankier, so higher HP.  Lower weight, but still able to carry light supplies.

Tapejara would be your light troop transport, so I think this one should have the 2nd highest stamina, just enough weight to carry max people without being over weighted/slowed and maybe a 175 or 200 cap on speed.

Ptero would be more like a scout flyer - lowest HP, highest stamina and 200-225 speed cap.

I think Pelagornis were fine they way they were.

I cant say if this would work in the grand scheme of things, but it's just my suggestion.

 

[iAmE]

3 hours ago, Burnz said:

Flying mounts aren't useless. I had a buddy pick me up from the other side of the map and carry me to our base. I tell you what it was much faster than walking! Only had to stop twice for stam but that's fine by me.

I don't see what the big deal is here!

The part where he could have shown up on a Bronto, had you sit on a chair on its back, and probably have beaten most flyers back. 

[Irkalla]

11 hours ago, GamerPerfection said:

It suggests buffs and improvements if you read the entire thing and keep everything in context.

"The Flyer Nerf will stay, flyers won't be as they once were. However we are certainly throwing around ideas on how to improve things so that they are in the best place they can possibly be for both our vision of the game and player enjoyment and usability." This indicates things will improve upon what they currently are, just that they will not return to exactly what they were.

v2 of Flyer Nerf does not mean things will get worse than they currently are. People need to take a step back, breathe, clear the red mist from their face and read the whole statement again and let it sink in.

It doesn't suggest there will buffs and based on their track record I'm going to stand by what I said.  IF they buff them at all,  the percentage is going to be tiny compared to the nerf.  If you pay attention to the people who think that the nerf is perfect just the way it is (the same people that WC will be listening to),  they will nerf damage and weight. 

[Ranger1]

9 minutes ago, Irkalla said:

It doesn't suggest there will buffs and based on their track record I'm going to stand by what I said.  IF they buff them at all,  the percentage is going to be tiny compared to the nerf.  If you pay attention to the people who think that the nerf is perfect just the way it is (the same people that WC will be listening to),  they will nerf damage and weight. 

Based on their track record you would be completely incorrect.  Well, except that the buffs incoming will hopefully be in small increments, until a workable level is found.  Bouncing things back up too high too quickly would completely undermine the very real issues the nerf is addressing.

[iAmE]

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

Sure thing iAmE, I'm eagerly awaiting your epic video showing your race on foot from the southern beach of Herbivore Island to the Northern Spire on Dead Island in 5 minutes. 

I didn't actually mean a foot race with my toon, was thinking running, with a Dino, but since you asked;

 

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

I'll be taking odds on whether you complete either ocean swim alive.

How and where do I collect?

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

well, I'm not sure what game you've been playing, but up until this patch fliers have been without equal when used for everything from mass killing dino spawns (so as to generate that "Perfect" wild dino to tame), to harvesting and transporting massive amounts of resources

They're used for those tasks because literally 95% of those tasks is actually travelling between things. So yeah. A to B travel. No different then what I said. 

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

to near invulnerable base assault machines

Someone doesn't play PvP, because that's laughable. Bullet tanking with a Quetzal. Ah. No. That's a Bronto. Or a Turtle.

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

to traveling with complete immunity to threat

I just posted a video of travelling, on foot, through a Swamp, across Carno, in absolutely no danger. So it's safe to assume that, yeah, there's no threat either way. 

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

simply scouting from a birds eye view with no terrain to block your view.

Ah. yes. A to B travel. Their forte. Or was, I guess. Now I suppose they still have great "Birds eye" scouting ability, too bad that ability is pretty much useless because PvP base designs are one dimensional and predictable due to the meta not having changed since breeding was implemented. 

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

Even now they provide the safest 

Safety is irrelevant past the point that you arrive safely. Sure, flying is technically safer then going on foot, but as my video showed, there was absolutely no difference in our state of arrival. We both made it completely safe with no damage taken. 

 

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

swiftest ways to travel as long as your load is kept relatively light

If you discount any of the dozens of land dinos that are just faster then any flyer.

3 hours ago, ranger1presents said:

by far the best scouting mounts in the game.

Depends what your scouting, but in most cases, you don't need a flyer anyways to scout, because I pretty much know how 99.9% of all bases are going to look because the meta demands that they pretty much only look one way. 

[Vermithrax]

2 hours ago, sectek said:

Couldn't disagree more.   In real life we selectively breed for best stats.  Take horse racing.  You would be extremely lucky to find a wild horse that could beat any horse that competes in the kentucky derby.

In dogs - you could go with dog breeds that are faster than wolves.  Or that can smell better.  Probably only a handful of breeds that can kill a wolf 1v1 but yeah. 

Just because we haven't selectively bred lions doesn't mean we couldn't easily do it and have super-lions in a decade or so.

not just that but in the wild they must compete to survive- in captivity we can feed/medicate/train them an they will be better. You take a feral dog vs a trained fight dog- who wins in a fight? If you think the feral dog because hes been in the wild all his life compared to the bred and raised and TRAINED fighting dog that has been fed/medicated/pumped its whole life you are not thinking clearly. 

[iAmE]

1 minute ago, Vermithrax said:

not just that but in the wild they must compete to survive- in captivity we can feed/medicate/train them an they will be better. You take a feral dog vs a trained fight dog- who wins in a fight? If you think the feral dog because hes been in the wild all his life compared to the bred and raised and TRAINED fighting dog that has been fed/medicated/pumped its whole life you are not thinking clearly. 

We're in a game run by developers that think pigs and turtles should be faster then dragons/ptera's. Pretty sure we've thrown about nine kinds of reality out the window at this point. 

[Ranger1]

NICE!  You have excellent movement and stamina iAmE, and successfully outran my (level 100 pre-tame) Ptera with 5 points in Stamina.

I remember It used to be entertaining to run the perimeter of the islands beaches and compare times, you might find it amusing.  However, keep in mind that traveling anywhere other than safe open beach is a fair bit more challenging... and time consuming.

Still, you did an excellent job proving the point that a lack of swift fliers isn't that great a handicap.  THANKS!

[iAmE]

1 minute ago, ranger1presents said:

NICE!  You have excellent movement and stamina iAmE, and successfully outran my (level 100 pre-tame) Ptera with 5 points in Stamina.

I remember It used to be entertaining to run the perimeter of the islands beaches and compare times, you might find it amusing.  However, keep in mind that traveling anywhere other than safe open beach is a fair bit more challenging... and time consuming.

Still, you did an excellent job proving the point that a lack of swift, large load hauling fliers isn't that great a handicap.  THANKS!

You realize there's a bloody swamp between Carno and Herbi right? That's pretty "Challenging" terrain as far as this game goes. As far as points proven, I'm fairly certain the only point I proved was that you don't really know what you're talking about. 

[Ranger1]

22 minutes ago, iAmE said:

You realize there's a bloody swamp between Carno and Herbi right? That's pretty "Challenging" terrain as far as this game goes. As far as points proven, I'm fairly certain the only point I proved was that you don't really know what you're talking about. 

You circumvented the swamp actually (I did give you a pretty easy challenge terrain wise).

My original point was that even with a poor quality mount it doesn't take more than a few minutes to traverse the island from coast to coast. 

Forgive me, I did ignore your numerous attempts to show that any activity in ARK is nothing more than traveling from point A to point B.  Instead of being pulled into that pointless (and somewhat silly) argument, I'll simply let you elegantly prove to everyone how easy it is to get around without a flier... nerf or no nerf.

[Smash]

16 hours ago, GEonWAR said:

The player count is mostly stable after patch 256 but saw some new players complaining abt these changes and some asked refund. New patch hurting ARK sell not much but little bit.

What devs say to player also contradicting their own statement, yesterday after patch The Right hand mentioned abt buff later jat told offcial will be as it. So its really very confusing what going on. 

Question:  As refunds tend not to be given after the first 1-3 hours of gameplay how is it that new players are even in a position to understand the nature and impact of these nerfs?

[Novarae]

16 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

Well, yesterday she also tweeted that the nerfs was the best thing for the health of the game:

Of course, she deleted that tweet afterword ( https://twitter.com/bubblywums/status/847967164799873025 ) because they want us to believe that they care about our opinions but they clearly don't. They are happy with the current values, and they will most likely not change. The message she posted today is just to damage-control the reviews bomb and reduce negative comments. 3/4 of my friend list that used to play ARK everyday was playing other games today. They are not realizing that a lot of players are no longer active as they used to be because of the sales that bringed a bunch of bobs and joes but once the sales are over, and that the vast majority of new players left (because they got bored of getting trooded), the metrics should reflect the real damage of the nerfs and they might start realizing the mistake they made (or not, since they are always right).

 

They stated in the following conference that they don't care about comments/reviews as long as the numbers are good: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1024229/-ARK-Survival-Evolved-Lessons

 

So if you guys want to show them your frustration, go play something else for a couple days.

Wow she said that on twitter? This isn't the first time there's been condescension from the WC folks, sadly.  Same thing happened during the reaction to the dlc fiasco by another wc member.  All I can say is companies that have that sort of atmosphere tend just become more and more rotten over time from within. This all just reminds me sadly of how Trion became bad like this after Defiance floundered.

Once I could consider a fluke. Twice is a corporate choice.

Lot of respect for WC just went poof.

[powerstuck]

16 hours ago, GEonWAR said:

The player count is mostly stable after patch 256 but saw some new players complaining abt these changes and some asked refund. New patch hurting ARK sell not much but little bit.

What devs say to player also contradicting their own statement, yesterday after patch The Right hand mentioned abt buff later jat told offcial will be as it. So its really very confusing what going on. 

I'll give it a week to see real change. They added a massive sale (game has never been this cheap since release) two days before patch hit. 

[Novarae]

3 minutes ago, powerstuck said:

I'll give it a week to see real change. They added a massive sale (game has never been this cheap since release) two days before patch hit. 

Actually at the end of January it was basically the same sales prices because they were trying to thwart conan exiles launch, which they successfully did.

[powerstuck]

8 minutes ago, Novarae said:

Actually at the end of January it was basically the same sales prices because they were trying to thwart conan exiles launch, which they successfully did.

I've never seen it under $10 USD but you may be right. 

[Novarae]

1 minute ago, powerstuck said:

I've never seen it under $10 USD but you may be right. 

Its the reason why they jumped so high to 100k consecutive player numbers shortly after, though during the GDC talk video, Jeremy tried to say it was due to the update released around the same time which was a bit silly.

[BoltDown]

 

First off I don’t think this can be classified as a nerf but more in the line of a castration of all flying dinos from the game, I don’t think I have ever been on a game that has gimped an entire line of weapons or items into the ground to the point that they may as well have just removed them. Sure this is round 1 of multiple rounds of adjustments but to start from Rock bottom and work your way to an acceptable balance after weeks and probably months is not acceptable for a key component of a game. Let’s face it WC more than likely has an idea of where they want that balance to be, how else do you explain Jen’s gross inaccurate statement of “Stamina: across the board 50% decrease to base stamina” (Plain to see that number is at least 75% from in game values) and can probably be taken as a Freudian slip where she accidentally revealed the target number they are aiming for in the end. Of course feedback from players may influence set goals but as a programmer you don’t venture into muddy waters with ought a general idea of where you want to end up.

People that believe that this is going to end up opening up a large number of the neglected land dinos are living in a rose colored world. What you don’t believe there are higher tier land dynos that invalidate the lower end ones? What will end up happing is the world will shift from using fliers excessively to the top 5-10% of the land based dinos. All you have done is now included all fliers into the 90-95% of unused dinos in your pen. Personally I love my land based dinos I use them all the time, if I’m harvesting stone or wood I have a train going but you think I’m going to tread up to the volcano mountain with land dino to harvest a large quantity of metal, not going to happen. On my old PvE server we moved an Anky up there like everyone else, farmed until I filled up my 4 Argies and then flew back to my waiting Raft to unload and repeat (My base was way far from the mountain). But if you think I’m going to take out my 6 Dilos to go harvest some meat instead of my TRex than you need your head examined. Let’s not get started with all the useless dinos they added in like the new Iguanodon Vicissitudinis (Has a convenient immersion breaking feature of bypassing stamina drain when on all fours, like that should mater)… like getting berries and seeds is hard especially when you have a Bronto or a Trike. Personally it’s the water dinos I love the best, probably stems from my scuba diving hobby.

Also if you are the ones trying to prove that the game is still alive and doing well after this mess I think you need to take a look at this… http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=895711211 “Classic Fliers”. I already have this running on my personal server and is has undone everything the patch has done, and with 18,101 current subscribers you can bet its being widely used. Unless the metrics show you how many are on official servers, how many unofficial servers and solo users are using the mod the only assumption you can make is that what you are seeing is not reflecting how many people are running the game with the nerfs.

If they honestly keep fliers capped at their current gimped speed (Remember that on top of everything they lowered base speed by 10 – 30% so your 100% Argie is not flying at its original 100% setting) and locked then this should apply to all dinos is the game. You can’t say its fine to lock out speed on fliers but then let a ground dino pump up to 200-300% speed and say it’s fair, this would be classed as discrimination. But if you honestly believe it should be this way then call the FAA give them your name, address, and passport number and beg to be put on the no fly list for all airports worldwide cause you believe no plane should fly faster than a car, should not be able to fly hundreds of kilometers on a tank of gas, and by no means cross an ocean to reach the other side of the world. Make sure you plan your holiday trips because it may take a few weeks to a month to get to where you want to go. The entire point of flight is to shorten distances and circumvent ground topography.

Nerf fliers, sure but within reason and not by locking out features that are available in every other dyno on the map. Personally I’m fine with a speed cap that would apply to all dinos and not just the fliers, get rid of ridiculous special abilities like the Pteranodon’s whirlwind… god that would break its wings in real life (If they added in more untamable prey like birds then changing it into a high speed dive to avoid getting caught like a real bird would be nice… of course on a cool down timer and would do no damage).

One last point, how in god’s name on a programing stand point do you associate oxygen stat with swim speed? You are just asking for a massive headache with trying to separate it in balancing. Should have just made it the speed stat with an out of water % and an in water speed % penalty per dino, way easier to manage. Bad enough you have air breathing dinos that don’t even consume oxygen when diving.

 

[ArksownCthulhu]

I've lost a lot of faith in this company... it didn't need to be this way. But they'll hide behind silly comments like "better to nerf them now than to keep adjusting them and make people more angry" or "it was for the health of the game..." The simple truth is they could have chosen any number of other options and now they completely deserve the crap storm they find themselves in the middle of... They pointed out themselves that it's all just data they can adjust any way they want... so they didn't have to do this drastic of a nerf or even nerf fliers at all or they could have made it optional for Non-WC owned servers but they chose this...

I spent a ton of time on the few fliers I had ... I spent an equal amount of time on my ground dino's but hey I guess that didn't count... In fact most of the time I used my ground dino's more. So now I kind of feel like I wasted 30 to 40% of my time played since they couldn't come up with a better idea/plan. But hey it's only a game... a game that I paid good money for and that gives me the right just like the "Pro-Nerf" people to express my displeasure in counter to their pleasure with this "adjustment".

I'm sorry but they could have done so much better this was a lazy and poorly implemented solution. I work in IT support and development and you don't remove features that the customers liked/use and then tell them... oh well we'll decide on how much of that were going to give you back when we feel like it... and that is exactly the way this comes across. 

My one and only suggestion is make this flyer nerf optional for private servers I don't give a rats behind what you do with your company owned boxes but the rest of us don't want your patch... you can keep it.

[Volcano637]

7 hours ago, LostBytes said:

I feel there will be no wipe upon release. The devs have stated many times, that, they will only wipe/rollback due to technical reasons. (Bad patch, broken patch, unforeseen hiccups). I can see a bunch of new servers added, to accommodate the influx of new players. But a Wipe , not gonna happen, to many people with to much time invested.

I will not be sarcastic or demeaning to this post. I know you truly believe it and are not just arguing with me. I will definitely say there is a good chance they won't wipe the servers, and I am a front runner for the wipe party.

but at the same time, please don't think that no matter what there will not be a wipe, because there still is a good chance it will happen. Even though I want it and am pretty sure it will happen, I don't want it to be a surprise to people.

i will stay the course with that.

[Robersdee]

 

Just remember, a badly received patch + a steam sale to increase numbers = success in wildcards eyes. 

[MurderHobo]

4 minutes ago, Robersdee said:

 

Just remember, a badly received patch + a steam sale to increase numbers = success in wildcards eyes. 

One of their primary developers violated his noncompete and WC makes us pay for this developer's lack of ethics by selling paid DLC for their alpha project.  We forgave them because we understood that they were creating something amazing.  Now they think they can get away with what they knew would be a wildly unpopular nerf by pumping their numbers with a weekend sale...

I must say, Wildcard, you guys certainly know how to destroy the confidence of your customers.  I'm starting to see my way into the camp who would love to see a regulatory hammer come down on early access scammers.

[GreenRoc]

18 hours ago, GEonWAR said:

Jen reacted on angry post over flyer nerf and also hint Flyer Nerf v2 coming

Thank you for posting this info. My reading ratio steamcommunites vs Survivetheark is probably 99% Survivetheark, to 1% of Steamcommunities, give or take 5%. The only twitter I have read of theirs, is when someone copies the text into this website, or in the Discord server of my former official server I used to play on.

[BoltDown]

2 minutes ago, MurderHobo said:

One of their primary developers violated his noncompete and WC makes us pay for this developer's lack of ethics by selling paid DLC for their alpha project.  We forgave them because we understood that they were creating something amazing.  Now they think they can get away with what they knew would be a wildly unpopular nerf by pumping their numbers with a weekend sale...

I must say, Wildcard, you guys certainly know how to destroy the confidence of your customers.  I'm starting to see my way into the camp who would love to see a regulatory hammer come down on early access scammers.

I also found that weird, releasing a DLC on a product that is not even complete... usualy should not happen (And yes I did buy it). I started thinking about Star Citizen and the accusations that all the ship sales is to keep the project afloat (And yes personaly HEAVILY invested into the game >.<) since its current testing phase and final product will not be subscription based and they are running low on funds. Could ARK be in the same boat and are just running out of funding to even finish and are grasping to keep things going?

[GavinChester]

21 minutes ago, MurderHobo said:

One of their primary developers violated his noncompete and WC makes us pay for this developer's lack of ethics by selling paid DLC for their alpha project.  We forgave them because we understood that they were creating something amazing.  Now they think they can get away with what they knew would be a wildly unpopular nerf by pumping their numbers with a weekend sale...

I must say, Wildcard, you guys certainly know how to destroy the confidence of your customers.  I'm starting to see my way into the camp who would love to see a regulatory hammer come down on early access scammers.

Totally agreed, this is a scam. They got their money and they are pushing for more but don't respect their existing player base. They need to rollback the nerf immediately in response to the negative feedback and they look to rollout smaller incremental nerfs where needed.