Fish spawning in singleplayer.

[LightningBug]

Hiya all. I'm playing normal singleplayer (not a dedicated server) and I'm having some trouble with spawns. My settings are adjusted and I'm using mods, but no spawn adjustments. This is a fresh reinstall of an old save from around two years ago.

My base is in Dryo's cove. It is built in the center of the cove on top of a ton of pillars with ceilings. Two years ago, the cove was completely empty all the time. Now?

Fish. Hundreds and hundreds of fish. It's in every single cove. I have almost 600 piranha on my map right now (using an app to check) and there's 6000 coelacanth. Over 800 manta. My underwater tames in the cove were completely obliterated. Killing the fish does nothing, they come back.

My questions are:

Is this number of fish normal?

Do fish inhibit other dino spawns? 

If it's not normal, how do I stop fish from spawning this much?

Thanks for any help.

[GrumpyBear]

You could try flushing out which mod might be causing the spawn issues.  OF course make sure your save is completely backed up.   

STart the server over again with no mods, kill all wild dinos and respawn everything.  Check to see if you have the massive schools of fish still forming.  If they aren't abnormal.  Restart the server adding 1 mod in every time.  Keep killing off the wilds and get the new spawn pool to kick in.  Eventually you should find which mod is causing the problem.

 

If the massive schools of fish were there w/ no mods then EEEKK!  I got no thoughts

[LightningBug]

3 hours ago, GrumpyBear said:

You could try flushing out which mod might be causing the spawn issues.  OF course make sure your save is completely backed up.   

STart the server over again with no mods, kill all wild dinos and respawn everything.  Check to see if you have the massive schools of fish still forming.  If they aren't abnormal.  Restart the server adding 1 mod in every time.  Keep killing off the wilds and get the new spawn pool to kick in.  Eventually you should find which mod is causing the problem.

 

If the massive schools of fish were there w/ no mods then EEEKK!  I got no thoughts

I really don't think it's a mod. None of my mods touch creatures or spawns at all. I have structures plus, a fog remover, a platform/bridge mod, a stack mod, and a spyglass mod. That's it. None of them should be interfering with spawns. It's also not a server, it's actual single player. I can try it but I really doubt that any of those mods would cause fish to overspawn... Thank you though.

[zero064]

I'm not sure about the local situation around your base, but the overall numbers aren't that out of whack. The last Island server we played on shows 757 piranhas and 665 Manta. Here are a few other ocean creatures in case you want to compare:

Sabertooth Salmon: 965

Megalodon: 339

Mosa: 10

Anglerfish: 186

Plesio: 22

[Griffin998]

Interesting. Who knew there were that many piranhas just waiting out in the rivers to munch on beach bobs?

[Pipinghot]

2 hours ago, LightningBug said:

I really don't think it's a mod. None of my mods touch creatures or spawns at all. I have structures plus, a fog remover, a platform/bridge mod, a stack mod, and a spyglass mod. That's it. None of them should be interfering with spawns. It's also not a server, it's actual single player. I can try it but I really doubt that any of those mods would cause fish to overspawn... Thank you though.

Well the thing is it's not normal, which means you have to do the work to prove that it's not a mod. Unfortunately that's just how troubleshooting works, weird things can happen so you have to do the work to eliminate things even when they shouldn't be the cause.

 

[LightningBug]

1 hour ago, Pipinghot said:

Well the thing is it's not normal, which means you have to do the work to prove that it's not a mod. Unfortunately that's just how troubleshooting works, weird things can happen so you have to do the work to eliminate things even when they shouldn't be the cause.

 

Okay, and then what about when they aren't the cause? Troubleshooting also means reaching out and asking for alternatives. My questions specifically asked if this is normal spawning rate and if there's any known ways to reduce it. Multiple posts online have said they've also had major spawning rates in fish, but they've mostly been on servers and nobody has seemed to want to fix the issue.

My ark game takes over 10 minutes to load in, and I can't use the startup screen at all if I don't load in within 10 seconds or else I'll have to force quit the game. So I'm pretty reluctant to try removing mods one by one when I'm willing to bet they aren't the problem. I'll do it as a last resort but not a first one. 

Edit: Forgot to mention, it takes several hours minimum for all these fish to arrive. They come slowly over the course of playing for a few hours. Doing this with every single mod would take literally days.

[Joebl0w13]

10 minutes ago, LightningBug said:

Troubleshooting also means reaching out and asking for alternatives

That's not what troubleshooting is. It's logically, systematically finding and/or fixing the root cause of an issue in a complex mechanical, electrical or software-based system. 

You are talking about a workaround. Which ignores the root cause of an issue and moves on to trying to live with it as it exists.

10 minutes ago, LightningBug said:

Doing this with every single mod would take literally days.

As a lot of troubleshooting does.

[LightningBug]

27 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

That's not what troubleshooting is. It's logically, systematically finding and/or fixing the root cause of an issue in a complex mechanical, electrical or software-based system. 

You are talking about a workaround. Which ignores the root cause of an issue and moves on to trying to live with it as it exists.

As a lot of troubleshooting does.

Okay, glad to know I can't come here for help. Thanks. I'll be using some ini file edits I found from old posts online.

[Pipinghot]

1 hour ago, LightningBug said:

Okay, glad to know I can't come here for help. Thanks. I'll be using some ini file edits I found from old posts online.

Great attitude. You ask for help/information/advice. We give you the best advice possible for what you should do first, and you reject it because it's inconvenient for you.

If you wanted someone to wave a magic wand and fix your game for you that's what you should have asked for.

Let us know when you're actually ready to do the work you need to do so you can play the game on your computer.

[LightningBug]

6 minutes ago, Pipinghot said:

Great attitude. You ask for help/information/advice. We give you the best advice possible for what you should do first, and you reject it because it's inconvenient for you.

If you wanted someone to wave a magic wand and fix your game for you that's what you should have asked for.

Let us know when you're actually ready to do the work you need to do so you can play the game on your computer.

It's not just inconvenient, it's literally not possible with my current life. I only have a couple hours a day to play and I can't afford the electric bill of keeping a game I'm not playing open for hours. I have daily responsibilities, and I'm sorry, but Ark will never be work for me.

My first response I said I'll give it a try, but I was hoping to try more simple things first and then do the really difficult thing last. I am not concerned with fixing the root problem, I want a solution for where I'm at now. It was good advice and I never said it wasn't, just said I won't be doing it first. There's possibly other simple options, like editing config files or something else I don't know. That's why I asked, to hear several suggestions.

[Pipinghot]

On 5/24/2022 at 7:46 PM, LightningBug said:

Fish. Hundreds and hundreds of fish. It's in every single cove. I have almost 600 piranha on my map right now (using an app to check) and there's 6000 coelacanth. Over 800 manta. My underwater tames in the cove were completely obliterated. Killing the fish does nothing, they come back.

Ok, let's back up a minute, I gave you a wrong answer before and correcting that answer might help you. I misread your OP, I thought you were saying you had this many fish just in Dryo's Cove, but you were saying those are the numbers for your whole map.

So... yes, seeing those numbers for the whole map is normal.

This leads me to believe that this might not be a glitch at all, it might simply a change they made in the game and that change is now causing a problem for you even if it was an intentional change. Back when you were playing before Dryo's Cove might not have included fish in the spawn point, and then at some point they added fish to spawn in that area.

 

* First troubleshooting step - this isn't a normal troubleshooting step, it's actually a workaround because you have specifically stated that you want a workaround without having to spend a lot of time trying to figure out what's causing this for you. Place some foundations in the water around the cove. What you're trying to do is place enough foundations that you put one in a spot that will prevent the spawn point for fish from working. If this works then it won't matter whether it's a deliberate change or a glitch, it won't matter whether it's caused by mods, it won't matter that you're using an old save file.  If you can use foundations to stop the spawning then you're done, problem solved.

 

* Second troubleshooting step - remove all mods at once. You don't remove them one-by-one, you start by removing all of them and then you see if you still have the problem. This will give you a simple yes/no answer that makes it easy for you to figure out the next step.

a) If you still have the problem then it wasn't caused by mods, you can add all of them back in and move on to the next step.

b) Or, if it was caused by the mods then you don't need to look at any other troubleshooting steps because you would know it's caused by a mod. This is why people suggested removing mods before they started making other suggestions. Removing all mods at once is (almost) always the first smart thing to try because you (almost) always have to know whether it's caused by a mod before you do anything else. If the problem is cause by a mod then, and only then, you start adding them back one at a time until the problem comes back, then you would know which one caused the problem.

 

* Third troubleshooting step - it could be a problem with your old save file. Back up your save files for that map and try a fresh start on that map. This isn't something people usually suggest because it takes a fair amount of time, but it is the next logical step in the sequence of troubleshooting. Even if you use admin commands to spawn items in you would still need to spend some time rebuilding your base, making sure that everything is placed in the right location, spawn in some tames so that you can play the game, and then play for a while, a week, maybe two weeks, and see if the problem comes back.

Again this gives you a fairly neat yet/no answer. If the problem comes back then your save file isn't the problem, if the problem does come back then your save file has a problem.

 

* Fourth troubleshooting step - editing .ini files. It may be the case that for you, personally, this is a better solution than doing the previous troubleshooting, but when you come to the forums asking for help with a problem the first thing people are going to do is suggest to you the normal, standard, most common sense troubleshooting steps. And keep in mind that if your problem is caused by a glitch or by corruption in your save file then this might not work. For you, personally, you might want to start with this step first, but if it doesn't work then you still have to start at the beginning and do troubleshooting in the standard, logical order. You might prefer to try this first, but from a good troubleshooting point of view it's last thing in the logical sequence of steps.

On 5/24/2022 at 7:46 PM, LightningBug said:

Do fish inhibit other dino spawns?

Yes. If you never kill any fish from a specific spawn point then the other species on that spawn point will spawn less often. The fish have a time limit on their lifespan and when they "die" (which means when the server despawns them) then other species can spawn, but the spawn rate of other species on that spawn point will slow way down if players aren't also killing the fish.

For example, looking at the Spawn Map for The Island on the wiki shows the following information for the group of spawn points that are grouped together under the name "ShallowWater". There are 39 ShallowWater spawn points on The Island, and for each of those spawn points the spawn rate of Sarco's could be influenced by whether you're killing fish on that spawn point or not.

On 5/24/2022 at 7:46 PM, LightningBug said:

If it's not normal, how do I stop fish from spawning this much?

Even if it is normal, you should be able to stop the fish from spawning by using foundations in the water.

[DirkInSA]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:46 AM, LightningBug said:

This is a fresh reinstall of an old save from around two years ago.

This is maybe more relevant than mods and stuff ....

You said killing the fish did no good - how did you kill them, with a admin dino wipe, or by hand?

I remember there being over time various "once off" game start up parameters (at specific version releases in history) that kinda reset the spawn on various maps - but I'm afraid I don't remember the detail, and also think that your 2 year old save is maybe too new to fall into that category.

Again from memory - I think playing with the .ini spawn parameters may cause you as much "restart the game" pain as stripping mods one by one .... That lot is complex and quite difficult to get right without busting playability.

The other thing to consider is what (over time) has changed in terms of a structure that blocks wild spawns. Maybe as an experiment go place a good few linked foundations in your cove just in case in the old days pillars were adequate to suppress wild spawn but in the modern game they are not?

[DirkInSA]

10 minutes ago, Pipinghot said:

Even if it is normal, you should be able to stop the fish from spawning by using foundations in the water.

Ha Ha - Thats what I just said LOL ........

[LightningBug]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:22 AM, Pipinghot said:

Ok, let's back up a minute, I gave you a wrong answer before and correcting that answer might help you. I misread your OP, I thought you were saying you had this many fish just in Dryo's Cove, but you were saying those are the numbers for your whole map.

So... yes, seeing those numbers for the whole map is normal.

This leads me to believe that this might not be a glitch at all, it might simply a change they made in the game and that change is now causing a problem for you even if it was an intentional change. Back when you were playing before Dryo's Cove might not have included fish in the spawn point, and then at some point they added fish to spawn in that area.

 

* First troubleshooting step - this isn't a normal troubleshooting step, it's actually a workaround because you have specifically stated that you want a workaround without having to spend a lot of time trying to figure out what's causing this for you. Place some foundations in the water around the cove. What you're trying to do is place enough foundations that you put one in a spot that will prevent the spawn point for fish from working. If this works then it won't matter whether it's a deliberate change or a glitch, it won't matter whether it's caused by mods, it won't matter that you're using an old save file.  If you can use foundations to stop the spawning then you're done, problem solved.

 

* Second troubleshooting step - remove all mods at once. You don't remove them one-by-one, you start by removing all of them and then you see if you still have the problem. This will give you a simple yes/no answer that makes it easy for you to figure out the next step.

a) If you still have the problem then it wasn't caused by mods, you can add all of them back in and move on to the next step.

b) Or, if it was caused by the mods then you don't need to look at any other troubleshooting steps because you would know it's caused by a mod. This is why people suggested removing mods before they started making other suggestions. Removing all mods at once is (almost) always the first smart thing to try because you (almost) always have to know whether it's caused by a mod before you do anything else. If the problem is cause by a mod then, and only then, you start adding them back one at a time until the problem comes back, then you would know which one caused the problem.

 

* Third troubleshooting step - it could be a problem with your old save file. Back up your save files for that map and try a fresh start on that map. This isn't something people usually suggest because it takes a fair amount of time, but it is the next logical step in the sequence of troubleshooting. Even if you use admin commands to spawn items in you would still need to spend some time rebuilding your base, making sure that everything is placed in the right location, spawn in some tames so that you can play the game, and then play for a while, a week, maybe two weeks, and see if the problem comes back.

Again this gives you a fairly neat yet/no answer. If the problem comes back then your save file isn't the problem, if the problem does come back then your save file has a problem.

 

* Fourth troubleshooting step - editing .ini files. It may be the case that for you, personally, this is a better solution than doing the previous troubleshooting, but when you come to the forums asking for help with a problem the first thing people are going to do is suggest to you the normal, standard, most common sense troubleshooting steps. And keep in mind that if your problem is caused by a glitch or by corruption in your save file then this might not work. For you, personally, you might want to start with this step first, but if it doesn't work then you still have to start at the beginning and do troubleshooting in the standard, logical order. You might prefer to try this first, but from a good troubleshooting point of view it's last thing in the logical sequence of steps.

Yes. If you never kill any fish from a specific spawn point then the other species on that spawn point will spawn less often. The fish have a time limit on their lifespan and when they "die" (which means when the server despawns them) then other species can spawn, but the spawn rate of other species on that spawn point will slow way down if players aren't also killing the fish.

For example, looking at the Spawn Map for The Island on the wiki shows the following information for the group of spawn points that are grouped together under the name "ShallowWater". There are 39 ShallowWater spawn points on The Island, and for each of those spawn points the spawn rate of Sarco's could be influenced by whether you're killing fish on that spawn point or not.

Even if it is normal, you should be able to stop the fish from spawning by using foundations in the water.

Okay, thank you. I really appreciate this response.

I was killing the fish manually. I did several dino wipes because I was adjusting some other settings, and then I manually killed everything around my base multiple times. I then adjusted the structure resource respawn settings. At one point I tried it as high as 15 to see if it was really working... I'm not sure that it was. It's back down to 6 now. Note that I am not using any foundations, and my base is entirely modded structures.

For reference, there was absolutely zero dinos or fish around this same base two years ago, and my structure resource radius was vanilla. They were there at first, then once I killed them all and built my base, they never came back. (It's possible I was at spawn cap?)

This time, they are. Dinos nearby are mostly are gone, but I still get weird random spawns right next to my base. Otherwise, it's completely barren. The fish is the weirdest though... They're spawning literally less than a foundation away underneath and around my base. Above ground it's empty except for a random spawn; in the water, it's filled with fish. This is what caused my concern and confusion.

I would not be surprised if this is partially an error with my own save file. I had several ark corruptions over the years and had to bring back this save from the brink several times. I had to edit the ini file a few times before already. This base is also old, and it's built with s+... If I could, I would switch to super structures or just vanilla structures at this point, but I don't think I can without losing what I already have. I should probably begin building a vanilla base somewhere else so I have a backup.

_

So I guess here's what I'm thinking now... Knowing that the number of fish on the map is normal relaxes me a lot. That was my main concern. Now, the issue is mostly superficial, just a bit of lag and needing to kill fish regularly to help spawns. I will try putting vanilla foundations in the water, in the chance that the s+ pillars and ceilings aren't affecting resource radius properly. If that fails, I'll just deal with the fish, because it's not a major issue otherwise. I can just use cryopods for water tames instead. If it becomes more of a problem, I'll try the other things you suggested. Thank you.

[Pipinghot]

2 hours ago, LightningBug said:

I will try putting vanilla foundations in the water, in the chance that the s+ pillars and ceilings aren't affecting resource radius properly.

Agreed, I think that's your best first step.

2 hours ago, LightningBug said:

Thank you.

You're welcome, hope it works out for you.

[GrumpyBear]

6 hours ago, LightningBug said:

Okay, thank you. I really appreciate this response.

I was killing the fish manually. I did several dino wipes because I was adjusting some other settings, and then I manually killed everything around my base multiple times. I then adjusted the structure resource respawn settings. At one point I tried it as high as 15 to see if it was really working... I'm not sure that it was. It's back down to 6 now. Note that I am not using any foundations, and my base is entirely modded structures.

For reference, there was absolutely zero dinos or fish around this same base two years ago, and my structure resource radius was vanilla. They were there at first, then once I killed them all and built my base, they never came back. (It's possible I was at spawn cap?)

This time, they are. Dinos nearby are mostly are gone, but I still get weird random spawns right next to my base. Otherwise, it's completely barren. The fish is the weirdest though... They're spawning literally less than a foundation away underneath and around my base. Above ground it's empty except for a random spawn; in the water, it's filled with fish. This is what caused my concern and confusion.

I would not be surprised if this is partially an error with my own save file. I had several ark corruptions over the years and had to bring back this save from the brink several times. I had to edit the ini file a few times before already. This base is also old, and it's built with s+... If I could, I would switch to super structures or just vanilla structures at this point, but I don't think I can without losing what I already have. I should probably begin building a vanilla base somewhere else so I have a backup.

_

So I guess here's what I'm thinking now... Knowing that the number of fish on the map is normal relaxes me a lot. That was my main concern. Now, the issue is mostly superficial, just a bit of lag and needing to kill fish regularly to help spawns. I will try putting vanilla foundations in the water, in the chance that the s+ pillars and ceilings aren't affecting resource radius properly. If that fails, I'll just deal with the fish, because it's not a major issue otherwise. I can just use cryopods for water tames instead. If it becomes more of a problem, I'll try the other things you suggested. Thank you.

A pair of baryonix could be useful for fish clearing.  Keep them in a leash on wander In The water.