Dinos due for a nerf

[thedogowl]

Just now, LEDminer said:

Stop it. We don't need you here to fuel this neverending argument.

Because you're doing a fine job by yourselves? Sorry couldn't resist. 

[Zederia]

4 minutes ago, LEDminer said:

Stop it. We don't need you here to fuel this neverending argument.

the problem is the "pro-nerfers" refuse to see any merit in the "anti-nerfers" arguments. And even the ones wanting some middle ground (such as myself..) get no leniency. They just demand "learn to play" ARK is a sandbox, there should be no "learn to play" The game is supposed to be open-ended

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

4 minutes ago, thedogowl said:

Played on The Center the other day and can confirm; flyers still able to get airborne, can still move whilst airborne. Didn't notice anywhere they couldn't fly except the caves as per.

Thank you, Sir, for that fact check.. lmao..

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

6 minutes ago, WCusesDialUpServers said:

OP, will you please rename this to Three People Bickering?

I am stating facts, kind sir ???

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

3 minutes ago, Zederia said:

the problem is the "pro-nerfers" refuse to see any merit in the "anti-nerfers" arguments. And ever the ones wanting some middle ground (such as myself..) get no leniency. They just demand "learn to play" ARK is a sandbox, there should be no "learn to play" The game is supposed to be open-ended

I'm not pro nerf, I'm pro balance.. (cause I would still like wyvern to be stronger) 

[Zederia]

Just now, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

I'm not pro nerf, I'm pro balance.. (cause I would still like wyvern to be stronger) 

So you've got select "buffs" you want, that makes you a complete hypocrite. You're talking down people wanting buffs, yet you want one, but you only want YOURS. Funny enough what I've been speaking about is balance, but all you can shout at me is "learn to play" and directly attack ME. so maybe you should "l2p" with the wyvern EXACTLY as it is. What would you do if they nerfed it even more, hm?

[Zederia]

5 minutes ago, LEDminer said:

Well, I agree that I have been a little harsh, but I simply do not want the devs to just undo the nerf and bring back the old flyer stats. Instead, I would try and look for an alternative solution, such as:

- Allow flyer speed to be modified, but cap it so it doesn't go overboard (200%+)

- Introduce new ways to deal with the fast flyers in PVP (Homing rockets for the base game, not just the DLC?)

- Add more threats to flying, to make PVE flying dangerous (Small bird/pterosaur that attacks players, but can dismount them off of flyers?)

- Rework flying (Takeoff mechanic, where you have to sprint on the ground to build up speed in order to take off into the air. Remove hovering. Crashing into walls deals damage to you.)

 

 

I would advise you to look further into posts I made about the flier nerf. (not just this thread) I have been crunching numbers a lot and trying to find some sense of balance between how hideously slow they are now and how fast they were before. When they finally fix the mechanics of rendering and such. MAYBE we'll see a return of speed buffing, but I highly doubt it. They won't have the "it breaks rendering" excuse anymore though. certain bids should be able to hover, their rl counterparts do

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

5 minutes ago, Zederia said:

So you've got select "buffs" you want, that makes you a complete hypocrite. You're talking down people wanting buffs, yet you want one, but you only want YOURS. Funny enough what I've been speaking about is balance, but all you can shout at me is "learn to play" and directly attack ME. so maybe you should "l2p" with the wyvern EXACTLY as it is. What would you do if they nerfed it even more, hm?

I use my wyvern without worry, it does it's job,  I have no issue playing.. and I don't want the speed unlocked on any flyer.. I want balance.. for what it takes,  wyvern are comparatively weak.. I want balance,  whether that's a buff or nerf, that doesn't make me a hypocrite

[Zederia]

Just now, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

for what it takes,  wyvern are comparatively weak.. I want balance,  whether that's a buff or nerf, that doesn't make me a hypocrite

2

For what it takes most birds are insanely slow. and a quetz is slower than it is in the wild (despite a speed "increase" in the spreadsheet?). A quetz takes a LONG time to tame, and the rewards diminish with the nerf as-is.

[Zederia]

5 minutes ago, LEDminer said:

Well keep that for the tapejara. And maybe the wyvern, since it could use the hovering to position itself for the special breath attack.

I just thought that it could be interesting to see a realistic flying mechanic, where you can't stop midair and have to circle around if you want to stay in a certain location for a long time. (Imagine vultures circling a carcass, that's what I mean)

 

 

 

well, then they need to be more maneuverable, no? I would agree if this was the case, but it's not. And how often do you see dragons hover?

 

btw, to an earlier post:

https://survivetheark.com/index.php?/forums/topic/170311-re-balancing-the-fliers-mk-2/&page=42#comment-956627

 

[Zederia]

Just now, LEDminer said:

1: Well they could give you more control over the speed. Accelerating speed as you hold down the sprint key. Flying downwards would generate speed faster, while flying upwards would generate speed at a slower rate, or overall reduce your speed by some amount.

2: And as for the dragons, I have never seen them hover, since I haven't seen one face to face in real life, since they are not real. Just thought it could be a little easier to hit the special attack while flying.

2

1: They could indeed, and allow for some increases around the board by the end user. like the imprinting buff, for example, that they removed.

2: I was more referring to movies than real life. I'm not stupid and think they really exist in our physical world.

[Velarius]

On 5/9/2017 at 3:03 AM, YUSHOETMI said:

Fiber was just an example and what I use one of the two theris mostly for due Timmy base location, considering the vast amount of resources they do harvest the collection rates are phenomenal, too phenomenal 

That's like saying the Honey badger hides well...too well, its not refute by any means considering that is the creatures given special trait in the game. Theriz' have bonus harvesting lvls for a reason and they only collect a few things. Berries,wood/thatch,fiber,meat. Plenty of other creatures harvest the same just not as well, move along please. At this point you are trying to refute the reasoning behind the creatures special trait not argue its raw collecting prowess being op. As I said, the only thing worth removing in this dino's case is the ability to harvest meat at extreme rates and just for the fact that it is an herbivore. When it kills it doesn't harvest, it just leaves the body there and moves along.

[YUSHOETMI]

11 hours ago, Velarius said:

That's like saying the Honey badger hides well...too well, its not refute by any means considering that is the creatures given special trait in the game. Theriz' have bonus harvesting lvls for a reason and they only collect a few things. Berries,wood/thatch,fiber,meat. Plenty of other creatures harvest the same just not as well, move along please. At this point you are trying to refute the reasoning behind the creatures special trait not argue its raw collecting prowess being op. As I said, the only thing worth removing in this dino's case is the ability to harvest meat at extreme rates and just for the fact that it is an herbivore. When it kills it doesn't harvest, it just leaves the body there and moves along.

If you think that's all the theri collects then I fail to see why I should see your point as correct then.  How about the copius amounts of leech blood it can harvest from one leech alone? Spent 20 minutes in the swamp with a theri, came back stacked with leech blood, chitin more xplant seeds than I could ever need, wild flowers and mushrooms. Like seriously 20minutes, if that, and I filled its max slot, not weight, with enough leech blood to fish countless end game bps, filled a whole chest of chitin and could have planted xplants around the entire map.  And you can sit there and say they aren't op? Yeah dude, totally with you on that one. 

Also pretty sure the theri was an omnivore not a herbivore. Why would it have claws and sharp teeth if it only ate berries?

[DomiDarko]

2 hours ago, YUSHOETMI said:

If you think that's all the theri collects then I fail to see why I should see your point as correct then.  How about the copius amounts of leech blood it can harvest from one leech alone? Spent 20 minutes in the swamp with a theri, came back stacked with leech blood, chitin more xplant seeds than I could ever need, wild flowers and mushrooms. Like seriously 20minutes, if that, and I filled its max slot, not weight, with enough leech blood to fish countless end game bps, filled a whole chest of chitin and could have planted xplants around the entire map.  And you can sit there and say they aren't op? Yeah dude, totally with you on that one. 

Also pretty sure the theri was an omnivore not a herbivore. Why would it have claws and sharp teeth if it only ate berries?

I'm with you that the Theri is OP. I have to say this even it's my favourite mount since it has been introduced... It collects wood, thatch, fiber, berries, meat, hide, chitin, organic polymer, rare flowers, rare mushrooms, leech blood, plant x - let's say nearly everything. I have Theri-offsprings at lvl 292 without any xp-levels put on and when leveled, they kill almost everything. Never tried a Giga or Titanosaur, but I succeeded killing a lvl 65 Alpha-Rex with some veggie cakes and a journeyman saddle (58 armor).

BTW: Nobody knows what it ate, because no skulls of a Theri have ever been discovered.

So yeah, Theri needs to be nerfed quite a bit.

Other creatures needing a nerf are:

Thylacoleo, because you can escape quite easily with its climbing-ability.

Direbear: Maybe reduce a little amount of its damage. Because it is an omnivore you can feed it meat and cakes to heal and it doesn't need that amount of melee.

Eels: Get rid of the stun-lock, don't make them aggro on large mounts and get these damn hackers out of the walls! As mentioned before: Don't stack the stunning as well!

Wild Giga: Nerf them to a point that you can bring one down on a Giga vs. Giga, but have to be well prepaired to encounter it (leveled up quite a bit and have at least an apprentice saddle)

Megaloceros: Yeah, to me they feel overpowered once you leveled them in health and melee. I can bring down high level Rexes and Spinos without an effort!

Microraptors: If you see one, you're effed! They dismount you and are fast as hell! Maybe make them a little slower or lower the HP.

Pegomastax/Ichthyornis: They are way too common and have too much health. They are just a pest... If it's possible, make them only steal special things or items with lower weight - if you don't have such items you aggro every Pego/Ichthyornis in the nearby area.

Maybe I forgot some, but most of the other creatures need to be buffed or have unique abilities, because so many are rendered worthless now, like Trike, Sarco, Carno, Parasaur, etc...

[Gilgamesh908]

15 minutes ago, DomiDarko said:

I'm with you that the Theri is OP. I have to say this even it's my favourite mount since it has been introduced... It collects wood, thatch, fiber, berries, meat, hide, chitin, organic polymer, rare flowers, rare mushrooms, leech blood, plant x - let's say nearly everything. I have Theri-offsprings at lvl 292 without any xp-levels put on and when leveled, they kill almost everything. Never tried a Giga or Titanosaur, but I succeeded killing a lvl 65 Alpha-Rex with some veggie cakes and a journeyman saddle (58 armor).

BTW: Nobody knows what it ate, because no skulls of a Theri have ever been discovered.

So yeah, Theri needs to be nerfed quite a bit.

Other creatures needing a nerf are:

Thylacoleo, because you can escape quite easily with its climbing-ability.

Direbear: Maybe reduce a little amount of its damage. Because it is an omnivore you can feed it meat and cakes to heal and it doesn't need that amount of melee.

Eels: Get rid of the stun-lock, don't make them aggro on large mounts and get these damn hackers out of the walls! As mentioned before: Don't stack the stunning as well!

Wild Giga: Nerf them to a point that you can bring one down on a Giga vs. Giga, but have to be well prepaired to encounter it (leveled up quite a bit and have at least an apprentice saddle)

Megaloceros: Yeah, to me they feel overpowered once you leveled them in health and melee. I can bring down high level Rexes and Spinos without an effort!

Microraptors: If you see one, you're effed! They dismount you and are fast as hell! Maybe make them a little slower or lower the HP.

Pegomastax/Ichthyornis: They are way too common and have too much health. They are just a pest... If it's possible, make them only steal special things or items with lower weight - if you don't have such items you aggro every Pego/Ichthyornis in the nearby area.

Maybe I forgot some, but most of the other creatures need to be buffed or have unique abilities, because so many are rendered worthless now, like Trike, Sarco, Carno, Parasaur, etc...

I agree, but just to let you know the eel did get its stunlock nerfed by giving amy player or mount immunity from consecutive shocks even from other eels for a second or two to give time to fight back.  They still dismount you though on anything but Basilo and Tuso

[Sup3riorArs3nal]

Not much needs a big nerf at this point. Lots of things need minor buffs or additional features added, mostly older creatures so they can compete with more recent releases. Eels need some stun lock reworking, Direbears need minor damage nerf. Spinos need a big buff. I think flyers and Gigas are almost perfect now. Maybe add it so stamina gets an increase with flyers on imprinting instead of movement speed.

[YUSHOETMI]

21 minutes ago, DomiDarko said:

I'm with you that the Theri is OP. I have to say this even it's my favourite mount since it has been introduced... It collects wood, thatch, fiber, berries, meat, hide, chitin, organic polymer, rare flowers, rare mushrooms, leech blood, plant x - let's say nearly everything. I have Theri-offsprings at lvl 292 without any xp-levels put on and when leveled, they kill almost everything. Never tried a Giga or Titanosaur, but I succeeded killing a lvl 65 Alpha-Rex with some veggie cakes and a journeyman saddle (58 armor).

BTW: Nobody knows what it ate, because no skulls of a Theri have ever been discovered.

So yeah, Theri needs to be nerfed quite a bit.

Other creatures needing a nerf are:

Thylacoleo, because you can escape quite easily with its climbing-ability.

Direbear: Maybe reduce a little amount of its damage. Because it is an omnivore you can feed it meat and cakes to heal and it doesn't need that amount of melee.

Eels: Get rid of the stun-lock, don't make them aggro on large mounts and get these damn hackers out of the walls! As mentioned before: Don't stack the stunning as well!

Wild Giga: Nerf them to a point that you can bring one down on a Giga vs. Giga, but have to be well prepaired to encounter it (leveled up quite a bit and have at least an apprentice saddle)

Megaloceros: Yeah, to me they feel overpowered once you leveled them in health and melee. I can bring down high level Rexes and Spinos without an effort!

Microraptors: If you see one, you're effed! They dismount you and are fast as hell! Maybe make them a little slower or lower the HP.

Pegomastax/Ichthyornis: They are way too common and have too much health. They are just a pest... If it's possible, make them only steal special things or items with lower weight - if you don't have such items you aggro every Pego/Ichthyornis in the nearby area.

Maybe I forgot some, but most of the other creatures need to be buffed or have unique abilities, because so many are rendered worthless now, like Trike, Sarco, Carno, Parasaur, etc...

Yeah I know it isn't clear on what the theri actually ate but going off the devs depiction of it it's safe to say they visioned it as an omnivore rather than a carnivore and I'm fine with that, love the mount even if I do think it's op, but what it does harvest is over the top, you get one of them bad boys and most other dinos become redundant. 

[Velarius]

On 5/14/2017 at 7:25 AM, YUSHOETMI said:

If you think that's all the theri collects then I fail to see why I should see your point as correct then.  How about the copius amounts of leech blood it can harvest from one leech alone? Spent 20 minutes in the swamp with a theri, came back stacked with leech blood, chitin more xplant seeds than I could ever need, wild flowers and mushrooms. Like seriously 20minutes, if that, and I filled its max slot, not weight, with enough leech blood to fish countless end game bps, filled a whole chest of chitin and could have planted xplants around the entire map.  And you can sit there and say they aren't op? Yeah dude, totally with you on that one. 

Also pretty sure the theri was an omnivore not a herbivore. Why would it have claws and sharp teeth if it only ate berries?

Again, at least read my post before you try to refute me as I never said that was an all encompassing list of what they collect, but I did mention they should get a nerf when harvesting meat. So here it is, anything they can harvest from a 'kill' should be nerfed and as far as what they were in real life it doesn't matter because in Ark they are herbivores. We are talking about Ark so don't get it twisted, and the point I've made is that the nerfing should come at a very specific angle. wildflowers/mushrooms/and plant x seeds, all still vegetation and quite edible in game so you are talking about giving an all encompassing nerf to a creature that is an herbivore when it excels at harvesting. I say let the nerf just mean less from creatures killed, chitin/leech blood/and meat. I swear, instead of putting on a show please read my posts and don't make assumptions before you respond.

[YUSHOETMI]

17 hours ago, Velarius said:

Again, at least read my post before you try to refute me as I never said that was an all encompassing list of what they collect, but I did mention they should get a nerf when harvesting meat. So here it is, anything they can harvest from a 'kill' should be nerfed and as far as what they were in real life it doesn't matter because in Ark they are herbivores. We are talking about Ark so don't get it twisted, and the point I've made is that the nerfing should come at a very specific angle. wildflowers/mushrooms/and plant x seeds, all still vegetation and quite edible in game so you are talking about giving an all encompassing nerf to a creature that is an herbivore when it excels at harvesting. I say let the nerf just mean less from creatures killed, chitin/leech blood/and meat. I swear, instead of putting on a show please read my posts and don't make assumptions before you respond.

I think it's safe to assume the fact it collects meat and berries would place it in the omnivore category within ark. No other herbivore collects meat. Why would it have claws and sharp teeth if it's a herb? 

Simply refuting you because you flat out tried to slam me for saying it needs a nerf and gave some silly comment about fiber when I used it as an example. It's impossible to argue that once you have a theri you simply don't need anything else, except metal and stone collectors, for harvesting. It out performs everything else and makes most other dinos redundant. How does that not warrant a nerf?

if you can fill it's max slot inventory in less than 20 minutes, in any given location, with any given resource, (except wood, that would fill its weight first but it still out performs even a beaver as you have less of a risk factor when it can destroy a rex in seconds, sound like a herbivore still?) then there is an issue with the creature in general. 

[ciabattaroll]

1 hour ago, YUSHOETMI said:

I think it's safe to assume the fact it collects meat and berries would place it in the omnivore category within ark. No other herbivore collects meat. Why would it have claws and sharp teeth if it's a herb? 

Their dietary category depends entirely on their diet. As you may have noticed, Theris don't really get anything out of being force fed meat. Ergo they are herbivores despite their ability to harvest meat.

[YUSHOETMI]

19 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Their dietary category depends entirely on their diet. As you may have noticed, Theris don't really get anything out of being force fed meat. Ergo they are herbivores despite their ability to harvest meat.

Granted, but no other herbivore has sharp teeth or claws for harvesting meat or can stand up to the bigger carnos let alone best them. Just stands to reason that despite not much being known about the theri in history, the devs gave them traits of a carnivorous animal alongside a herbivore, which would place them in the omnivore category. Not eating meat seems more like an oversight issue. 

If they're meant to be a herbivore then they need the claws removing, teeth blunting and aggressiveness removed. Their physical stature and attitude don't match a herbivore in the slightest. 

[Ymhotep]

Therizinosaurus was a herbivore with carnivore ancestors, thats why it looks more like a hunter than a planteater. The claws look intimidating but they where used as tools to reach tree branches for example. They used them for defence if nesesary. 

There where many dinosaurus that look totaly weird and many times first looks are wery deceiving.

[Vilu]

1 hour ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Granted, but no other herbivore has sharp teeth or claws for harvesting meat or can stand up to the bigger carnos let alone best them. Just stands to reason that despite not much being known about the theri in history, the devs gave them traits of a carnivorous animal alongside a herbivore, which would place them in the omnivore category. Not eating meat seems more like an oversight issue. 

If they're meant to be a herbivore then they need the claws removing, teeth blunting and aggressiveness removed. Their physical stature and attitude don't match a herbivore in the slightest. 

Quite many do have. F.E Sloths do have mean looking claws. Many primates have sharp teeth even though they eat fruits and stuff. Then there are also hippos with their teeth and attitude... among many other things... 

[YUSHOETMI]

1 hour ago, Vilu said:

Quite many do have. F.E Sloths do have mean looking claws. Many primates have sharp teeth even though they eat fruits and stuff. Then there are also hippos with their teeth and attitude... among many other things... 

Sloths have claws for a purpose, hanging from trees being one. Most primates with sharp teeth need them because their diets consist of hard fruits and shells. I've seen hippos be friendly as well as aggressive. 

The theri, based on game mechanics only remember, has claws, for no real reason other than defence and collecting meat, sharp teeth despite its diet mainly consisting of berries and is not only aggressive but can hold its own against all carnos except the giga. 

My sister is a vegan, won't eat meat or anything that's come from an animal. She's human, has all her teeth and can digest meat despite not wanting too. Does that maker her a herbivore? Until they remove it's ability to collect meat it's by definition an omnivore. It just may like the kale lifestyle. 

[YUSHOETMI]

1 hour ago, Vilu said:

Quite many do have. F.E Sloths do have mean looking claws. Many primates have sharp teeth even though they eat fruits and stuff. Then there are also hippos with their teeth and attitude... among many other things... 

Sloths have claws for a purpose, hanging from trees being one. Most primates with sharp teeth need them because their diets consist of hard fruits and shells. I've seen hippos be friendly as well as aggressive. 

The theri, based on game mechanics only remember, has claws, for no real reason other than defence and collecting meat, sharp teeth despite its diet mainly consisting of berries and is not only aggressive but can hold its own against all carnos except the giga. 

My sister is a vegan, won't eat meat or anything that's come from an animal. She's human, has all her teeth and can digest meat despite not wanting too. Does that maker her a herbivore? Until they remove it's ability to collect meat it's by definition an omnivore. It just may like the kale lifestyle.