Any elaboration on what the flyer nerf will entail?

[Argleksander]

Flyer nerf is good imo, because right now flyers completely dominate the meta and imo Pteras and especially quetz are too powerful. I don't want them nerfed into uselessness, but maybe nerf their stats a bit.

Also, pteras should not be able to grab players imo. Argies and quets? Fine, but pteras combined with their speed and maneuverability kinda makes them fighter jets, and thats a bit too much for such an easy tame.

Also, quets platform saddle needs some work done. A "flying fortress" quetz is all kinds of ridiculous, not only are they OP, but their wings clip through solid matter and birds have hollow bones for a reason.   

[Housatonic]

13 minutes ago, Michaud said:

How the fk can your ptera kill an alpha rex I have lost lvl 150+ rock elementals to alpha rex I doubt a simple ptera can kill it no matter what level unless you spend nearly 15 minutes barrel rolling. BTW I own 2 150 ptera for eggs and I just had one of their babies die to a lvl 80 thyla.

I've killed a low-midlevel alpha rex with a couple of pteras. Swarmed it with 4 until the non-ridden birds were near death, then finished it off with the ridden one. I always rode my pteras in packs though, passive one for riding, and 2-4 neutral ones following. You'd be surprised how well they hold up, all things considered.

[Morloa]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

In my opinion we kind of need some more power to Attackers.

Right now, if a player properly sets up their base, there is no raiding it. Up to 10 layer thick walls, using hatch frames that house up to 20 turrets on them with almost 360 degree radius. Then you have Plant Specie X spam which can cause the game to lag so badly that it runs at ~2 frames. Rocket Launchers got nerfed so hard that they are no longer used in attacks/pvp, if you use one you're basically just wasting resources.

I don't know what game you're playing but Attackers already have a massive advantage in a raid.

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

1 hour ago, Michaud said:

I know that's what I do I breed rex, giga, tape, thyla, bary, and quetz for specific stats. My ptera babies are born with 1800 hp 1700-2000 stam and about 324% melee.

Your melee is good but I've seen much better, 398 is the highest melee I've ever gotten from any tame,  and I know of higher,  plus throwing in random mutations and imprinting from breeds.. You could get quite OP pteras..

[TheLegitDinoKing]

8 hours ago, sal said:

I have not seen any further information but if i would guess it should be

* A huge nerf to the movement speed you get via levels, at least 50% reduction

* Pteras can no longer grab

* Remove Quetz Platform saddle

* A debuff to the bird when you carry a creature (slower movement, more stamina drain)

* A rework of the flight model, right now you fly like a X-Fighter in space, aerodynamics are completly ignored =)

 

but we will see =)

I doubt that the nerf would be this extreme, mainly that quetzal platform saddles be removed because this would destroy many people's creations and change the game.

i have a feeling it will mainly be a damage nerf.

[TheLordTailfin]

Anyone wanna bet PVE is gonna get shafted again by our idiot dev team? 

[Probitas]

6 hours ago, oScottieHo said:

Agree with this,being able to C spin genes because a base hasnt rendered in is just absurd.

WC should not be nerfing anything due to poor connection speeds for players. If a player has a bad connection they should try fixing that themselves, not expecting game wide nerfs to compensate. All that does is lower the quality of the game for everyone, especially those that have faster than dial-up speeds like cable.

--Especially when the players that have good quality connections are getting those structures rendered in just fine and have no way to glitch into a base regardless of how fast the flyer travels. If anything WC needs to fix the problems with the rendering period because that is the source of any glitching issues, not the dinos.

As far as them being an easy tame, I think people are forgetting that you can't even mount one until level 35 unless someone hands off a saddle to someone who is lower level (and that is no reason to nerf them, it's silly to react like that). As designed they are fine. Pteranodons could get quite large, large enough to carry a human with effort. But seeing as how the game starts off a pteranodon with little in the way of carrying ability, and that weight slowing it down considerably, I fail to see why players complain about it. You have to sink large amounts of points into carrying and speed to offset for the drawbacks. And then then you have to add stamina so you can sprint for any distance. If some one spends the points to enable a pteranodon to do this, why should anyone complain? You can do the exact same thing with argys and quetz, and with wyverns. I think the biggest issue is that people are expecting raids to be end game, and this is NOT an MMO with gated content. Give that poop a rest. I think people are thinking that because the dino is low level content (or enabled, not sure how to say this so people understand what I'm saying) it should be crap. I don't believe that is the way it should work.

[BobRoss]

1 hour ago, Michaud said:

You're forgetting a huge part. Wyverns. 

nerf their speed and they are fine. they take a buttload of damage from turrets. they are only a problem to the lower lvl players

[catnip]

16 minutes ago, TheLordTailfin said:

Anyone wanna bet PVE is gonna get shafted again by our idiot dev team? 

I have to agree with this. We are constantly getting the short end of the stick whenever there's an adjustment. As someone who plays solely PVE I'm concerned with how this will affect the PVE game.I really wish they'd treat PVP and PVE as two separate entities. In PVE the Ptera's ability to grab a tribe member for transport comes in really handy, and the Quetz platform saddle comes in really handy for taming and material gathering. I could see a stam nerf for PVP, but I use my flyers quite a bit for transportation and scouting supplies. Also on some servers its the only way to get to resources that have had their ground routes blocked by jerk tribes. 

On SE Argents are often used on PVE to get Wyvern eggs. Nerf their speed capabilities and you take away one of their key uses there. 

i agree that a higher stam drain when carrying animals/tribe members would make sense.But be reasonable about the change.

[Rockfisch]

The rumor swirling around about Quetz platforms being removed has me a little worried.  I understand that this is a great idea to stop the "Anky on the platform/mining all metal on the map" issue that I would agree is an issue.  But what bothers me is this, the damn game kicks you so often the only action I know of to save yourself is to

A: ride on a quetz with a platform with a ramp on the left front so when get dropped you can rejoin you don't fall to your death and

B:  have a bed on the platform so at least you can go to it no matter where it is.

I am sure there are players out there, myself included that have lost flying mounts due to disconnects and then not being able to get to your mount in time or just losing it completely. The Quetz with the platform has become the go-to flying mount for this reason alone.

I know the devs want to make a better game, but maybe were at the point of fixing performance/lag/drop issues needing to be addressed first before major changes in how the game functions.  

Many of the problems that this game is having with exploits are coming around because the community have lost dinos, get dropped and have found workarounds.  Those workarounds then get taken a step further and become exploits.  Then a massive overhaul in how the dinos work seem to be the answer.  

Again, fix the known problems in the game and people will be less likely to use exploits.

[jcmeyer5]

I think each bird should have a specific purpose.  Right now, more than one bird can fill multiple roles. Ptera can be a fast attacker, travel to all corners of the map, and carry some smaller animals (not anything of significance).  Quetz I really really hate, and that is just from watching other people use it.  I am not sure what it should be, but it is a transport, attack platform, tank, fast transport, and probably makes a good milkshake too.

So if I were doing it...

• Pteradon - fast, light transport.  Don't expect to take much with you as it cannot handle much weight (no more than 250 or 300).  Ditch the barrel roll (my son annoys me to death with it).  Let it still pick up the creatures it can get now, but not humans.  Lowest HP of any bird.  Little to no attack.  Average stamina.  I thought these guys ate fish?  Make that their favored food, and allow them to dive-attack water creatures (fish, nothing bigger).  That would be a fun mechanic!
• Tapejara - Single or multi-person transport, but not as fast as the Pteradon.  This should be the upgrade from Pteradon.  Seeing as it is larger than a Pteradon, I would expect it to be able to carry at least the same animals, if not a few more.  Maybe have two saddles - one single and one multi - and have each confer different advantages/disadvantages.  This bird really should be used more.  Better HP than Pteradon, but not the speed potential.  Attack is irrelevant.  Good stamina.
• Argentavis - Primarily a battle mount used for attacking.  Speed comparable to a Tapejara, but with more attack and health.  It can pick up players.  I would put the barrel roll here if anywhere.  I would also allow this to pick up some of the dinos it should be able to get.  Dodicerus, Dimetrodon both would work.  Good stamina, good health, good attack.  If any of them are going to be average to good at everything, this is the bird.
• Quetz - Heavy transport, but not THAT heavy.  The platform is just silly, ditch it.  Allow it to carry anything up to a Therizino, but nix most anything larger than that (Stego, Carno, Rhino, Mammoth, Thylacoleo among others).  Weight up to but not exceeding 5,000... or pick your number, but 20k weight Quetzals are silly when the bird probably doesn't weigh a fraction of that.  Highest weight, modest attack, and good health.  Highest stamina.

I don't have experience with the rest, so I leave those to you guys.  Those are my ideas.

[GelhadQC]

I will share a bit of my Game Dev experience here related to design. I have listened to their GDC presentation about handling their game. They like emergent design. As such their only goal that they should try to reach is to try to keep as much the struggle of survival even when you tame flying creatures. From experience, once you get the Quetz, its pretty much easy to go around without being killed in solo / PVE. What they need to probably add is more aggressive flyers on one hand to balance things out. In the water eels currently kill all the stuff except the Basilosaurus. So only in the air can you get a bit of peace. Is it by design ?

If they dont want to add a predatorial air creature roaming around that keep you on your guards, they should make it very hard to fly for a long time and make it impossible to stay in mid air. Speed is also and issue in PVP, if they are too hard to shoot because the game play is clearly not tuned like Destiny, somebody gets an edge.

[Weberm35]

I think if they make Ptera no grab then the spin attack should be able to kill players off of dinos.  Pteras have been nerfed already make them harder to tame or raise if they are so OP.  

[spacejam]

I hope they don't nerf speed to much,  Nerfing speed will eventually only lead to one thing and that is once again making mega bases closer to major spawn spots and blocking them from everyone else. 

[GelhadQC]

1 minute ago, spacejam said:

I hope they don't nerf speed to much,  Nerfing speed will eventually only lead to one thing and that is once again making mega bases closer to major spawn spots and blocking them from everyone else. 

Not sure how this links to not being able to hop a couple of times. It seems to me like some comments here spawns from the personal lazyness or want-to-be-op instead of actually wanting the game to be good. The game is about survival, if you want means to be lazy it clashes with the basics of the game no ?

[Tattare]

I bet they change the taming to be more like tapejara's on pteras, but slower.

40% reduction in stats across the board including weight.

higher stamina usage.

reduced movement speed per level on domesticated dinos from 2% to 0.6% on pteras and scale the rest to match.

remove platform saddles or cap it at 12 items per saddle.

 

edit: maybe even soft cap moment speed at 150%

[iAmE]

15 minutes ago, Weberm35 said:

I think if they make Ptera no grab then the spin attack should be able to kill players off of dinos.  Pteras have been nerfed already make them harder to tame or raise if they are so OP.  

Barrel roll can already kill off the back of dinos if you hit the rider.

 

The issue with the whole Flyer rebalance is that the developers demonstorably have no meaningful amount of experience with the game play after it gets off the code side of things. They further have no concept of the difference between artificial and real difficulty, and what makes either of those difficulties fun. 
 

Realistically, I expect the Barrel Roll and Grab abilities for Ptera to be removed (Wouldn't be surprised to see grab abilities removed from all flyers). Major movespeed nerfs (Probably a blanket 50+% Nerf) for all flyers. Specific nerfs on certain problem flyers (Probably a 30-50% HP nerf on Quetz/Ptera, and a huge Stam nerf to Ptera's). Wouldn't be surprised to see QQ Platform removed either.

That's absolutely ridiculous of course, and doesn't need to happen, but it seems in line with what the Developers seem to be trying to do, which is force everyone to play the game how they want, and to define what is and isn't fun by gutting everything outside their narrow view of what is acceptable. 

 

Realistically, even in PvP, about the only thing about flyers that needs to be addressed is the picking mechanic, but the developers, with a combination of not playing their own game, and their penchant for extreme overkill on anything they dislike, likely won't see it the same way. 

[spacejam]

4 minutes ago, GelhadQC said:

Not sure how this links to not being able to hop a couple of times. It seems to me like some comments here spawns from the personal lazyness or want-to-be-op instead of actually wanting the game to be good. The game is about survival, if you want means to be lazy it clashes with the basics of the game no ?

how it link it doesn't matter if it suppose to make the game good, if it takes an alpha to long to fly from one spot to the other to gather resources they are simply going to move their base and block the resource to everyone else. Time in money.   why would any sane minded person/alpha knowingly build a base further away from resource spawns because they might be seen as last taking that extra 2 minutes flight time.

[GelhadQC]

1 minute ago, spacejam said:

how it link it doesn't matter if it suppose to make the game good, if it takes an alpha to long to fly from one spot to the other to gather resources they are simply going to move their base and block the resource to everyone else. Time in money.   why would any sane minded person/alpha knowingly build a base further away from resource spawns because they might be seen as last taking that extra 2 minutes flight time.

Sorry I misread the comment about the major spawn, I thought you were reffering to player spawn, now I see you were reffering to resources. Alpha's already gobble up major resource spawn point, I fail to see how this would change.

[spacejam]

Just now, GelhadQC said:

Sorry I misread the comment about the major spawn, I thought you were reffering to player spawn, now I see you were reffering to resources. Alpha's already gobble up major resource spawn point, I fail to see how this would change.

its basically going to make it even harder for small tribes and solo people to do anything as per the usual, while all alpha carry on with no effects. I agree that a nerf is needed I just hope they don't make all bird'd stupid slow. I like jetting around the map on the Ptera looking at stuff and chasing air drops.

[Morloa]

2 hours ago, Probitas said:

WC should not be nerfing anything due to poor connection speeds for players. If a player has a bad connection they should try fixing that themselves, not expecting game wide nerfs to compensate. All that does is lower the quality of the game for everyone, especially those that have faster than dial-up speeds like cable.

--Especially when the players that have good quality connections are getting those structures rendered in just fine and have no way to glitch into a base regardless of how fast the flyer travels. If anything WC needs to fix the problems with the rendering period because that is the source of any glitching issues, not the dinos.

As far as them being an easy tame, I think people are forgetting that you can't even mount one until level 35 unless someone hands off a saddle to someone who is lower level (and that is no reason to nerf them, it's silly to react like that). As designed they are fine. Pteranodons could get quite large, large enough to carry a human with effort. But seeing as how the game starts off a pteranodon with little in the way of carrying ability, and that weight slowing it down considerably, I fail to see why players complain about it. You have to sink large amounts of points into carrying and speed to offset for the drawbacks. And then then you have to add stamina so you can sprint for any distance. If some one spends the points to enable a pteranodon to do this, why should anyone complain? You can do the exact same thing with argys and quetz, and with wyverns. I think the biggest issue is that people are expecting raids to be end game, and this is NOT an MMO with gated content. Give that poop a rest. I think people are thinking that because the dino is low level content (or enabled, not sure how to say this so people understand what I'm saying) it should be crap. I don't believe that is the way it should work.

It's not about balancing something based off internet speed or for PVP, The Flier nerf as I've stated earlier is likely to be a Stamina nerf as wildcard have expressed on Reddit that they don't feel as if fliers in there current state are healthy for the game seeing as how it's only 35 that you gain access to one and suddenly you've opened up the entire map never having to fear anything on the ground again. The Nerf is likely targeted to Curb Stamina & or Speed in hopes that you have to give your mount a break every once and a while instead of flying your pteranadon 5 laps of the map on one stam bar.

They may do way more than this regardless of what it is, it's to make the Fliers of the game more what they envisioned there roles to be before level caps and scaling got away from them. I mean god forbid a PVE player has to break out there terror birds or something right?

[GelhadQC]

Just now, spacejam said:

its basically going to make it even harder for small tribes and solo people to do anything as per the usual, while all alpha carry on with no effects. I agree that a nerf is needed I just hope they don't make all bird'd stupid slow. I like jetting around the map on the Ptera looking at stuff and chasing air drops.

In a sense if alpha's still would want to gobble up all resources on a map, nerfing fast flyers reduce their area of action. It would actually better the solo player since alphas would not be able to warp across the map. Doing so could become more dangerous and would let them much more vulnerable like they would be on land.

[spacejam]

Just now, GelhadQC said:

In a sense if alpha's still would want to gobble up all resources on a map, nerfing fast flyers reduce their area of action. It would actually better the solo player since alphas would not be able to warp across the map. Doing so could become more dangerous and would let them much more vulnerable like they would be on land.

small alpha's I guess would have that problem but all your big boys I don't think would feel the effects at all. Ark is like real life government bodies, Make the rich/strong stronger, and the poor/weak weaker

[OnePotatoChip]

2 hours ago, TheLordTailfin said:

Anyone wanna bet PVE is gonna get shafted again by our idiot dev team? 

PvE is half the reason this nerf is needed. I don't know if you've read the reddit post, but TheRightHand says in no uncertain terms that the whole of the team felt as if flyers just trivialize about 80% of content on PvE because you can flutter above the danger. This isn't a farming simulator; danger should be ever present, and that's something that flyers remove almost entirely. 

I mean, is it any wonder why a lot of Youtubers get bored with ARK so often? It's because, once you've tamed a Ptera, it's all downhill from there. You're practically invulnerable to the point where the most dangerous thing is your own mistakes. Both PvE and PvP posses their own symptoms of the same root disease: flyers. 

[iAmE]

8 minutes ago, Morloa said:

I mean god forbid a PVE player has to break out there terror birds or something right?

I mean, god forbid PvE players not wanting to take 45 minutes to cross the Island to get metal with a Terror Bird. Everyone knows that arbitrarily increasing travel time without adding any difficulty or reward is good game design. Who doesn't like spending literally half your game session running to a place so you can do what you want to do. Not like this game doesn't have huge, AFK inducing, arbitrary no-difficulty involved tasks like Taming, where people just open the game and afk for literally hours at a time. I mean, why not add more of that to the game? Just rename the game to Ark: Netflix Evolved

 

Realistically, there is absolutely no good game design reason to just arbitrarily increase traveling time in a game where people can already spend hours a day traveling. The issue is, the developers have shown they don't play their own game, so I actually think that it will come to pass. Which is sad, and depressing. At the same time, even though the developers don't play the game, I don't have any faith that the testers will point this stuff out either, because stuff like the PvE Bosses being unbeatable without exploiting, and Eels, completely passed those people by as well.