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How does BabyImprintAmountMultiplier work?


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The arithmetic here is trivial but nasty as it asks for mistakes. There were a few fields that used to break repeatedly on many updates. Like Horde Events etc. Imprint is one of them. I'd give it some time until the team will figure out where not to do the repeated mistakes in the complicated development process. If the community sees a big issue the team is definitely aware and working on it.

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So the BabyImprintAmountMultiplier, The idea behind it was this: You can scale and tweak the cuddle interval & maturation times as you would before, the BabyImprintAmountMuiplier works on top o

Hmm. Interestingly enough, I tested his settings just now and I properly got 34% imprint on a Rex. Which led me to re-test the ones I posted here and I properly got 9% with the following settings:

I'm not trying to argue with you @invincibleqc   but you aren't the only one allowed to state an opinion here and try not to take discussions so personally, regardless of your age . I noticed several

Posted Images

I can confirm that imprinting is now broken.

On my private server (vanilla, no mods), BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier=50 and BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier=0.037. These settings allow to fully imprint every species of dinos, from Dodo to Giga. 1 imprint for a Dodo, 18 for a Giga. Progression is every 17 mn 46 s.

But now, whatever the species, we get 100% with the first imprint.

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7 minutes ago, Elgar said:

I can confirm that imprinting is now broken.

On my private server (vanilla, no mods), BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier=50 and BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier=0.037. These settings allow to fully imprint every species of dinos, from Dodo to Giga. 1 imprint for a Dodo, 18 for a Giga. Progression is every 17 mn 46 s.

But now, whatever the species, we get 100% with the first imprint.

18? With those settings, a Giga should be 12:

Total maturation: 3 hours, 42 minutes, 13 seconds
Cuddles required: 12
Cuddles percentage: 8.333333333333334
Cuddle interval: 17 minutes, 45 seconds

However, yes. As mentioned earlier, it appears the BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier setting is no longer taken into consideration causing an imprint to be 100% for raises that takes less than 16 hours total (which can't be negated with BabyImprintAmountMultiplier because it appears ignored in those cases).That is probably something @Jatheish or @Dollie could pass on to the team for investigation.

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12 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

18? With those settings, a Giga should be 12:


Total maturation: 3 hours, 42 minutes, 13 seconds
Cuddles required: 12
Cuddles percentage: 8.333333333333334
Cuddle interval: 17 minutes, 45 seconds

 

 

To be honest I didn't test in game with Gigas. I took it as example because it's the longest dino to imprint. I use this spreadsheet : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EmKN6i7Ce_yXkNxASQ7IDyYrnH3adcOzg67FVyVM1ik/edit?usp=sharing

I have been using this spreadsheet created by a Redditor (I forgot his name, sorry) for the last 6 months and so far it has always been totally accurate. On my server we have been raising and imprinting a lot of species, Allosaurus, Ptera, Rex, Basilo, Wyvern, Anky, Deino, Sarco, Baryo, Argy, etc and so far this spreadsheet is accurate, that's why I assumed it was the case for Gigas. ;)

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11 minutes ago, Elgar said:

 

To be honest I didn't test in game with Gigas. I took it as example because it's the longest dino to imprint. I use this spreadsheet : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EmKN6i7Ce_yXkNxASQ7IDyYrnH3adcOzg67FVyVM1ik/edit?usp=sharing

I have been using this spreadsheet created by a Redditor (I forgot his name, sorry) for the last 6 months and so far it has always been totally accurate. On my server we have been raising and imprinting a lot of species, Allosaurus, Ptera, Rex, Basilo, Wyvern, Anky, Deino, Sarco, Baryo, Argy, etc and so far this spreadsheet is accurate, that's why I assumed it was the case for Gigas. ;)

Actually, you are right! I was set to Quetzal for some reasons. Here it is:

Spoiler

Total maturation: 5 hours, 36 minutes, 42 seconds
Cuddles required: 18
Cuddles percentage: 5.555555555555555
Cuddle interval: 17 minutes, 45 seconds

Imprinting progression:
        - Imprint #1:
                 Precise: 5.555555555555555%
                 Networked: 5.5556%
                 Displayed: 6%
                 Maturation left: 5 hours, 18 minutes, 56 seconds.
        - Imprint #2:
                 Precise: 11.11111111111111%
                 Networked: 11.1111%
                 Displayed: 11%
                 Maturation left: 5 hours, 1 minutes, 10 seconds.
        - Imprint #3:
                 Precise: 16.666666666666664%
                 Networked: 16.6667%
                 Displayed: 17%
                 Maturation left: 4 hours, 43 minutes, 25 seconds.
        - Imprint #4:
                 Precise: 22.22222222222222%
                 Networked: 22.2222%
                 Displayed: 22%
                 Maturation left: 4 hours, 25 minutes, 39 seconds.
        - Imprint #5:
                 Precise: 27.77777777777778%
                 Networked: 27.7778%
                 Displayed: 28%
                 Maturation left: 4 hours, 7 minutes, 54 seconds.
        - Imprint #6:
                 Precise: 33.33333333333333%
                 Networked: 33.3333%
                 Displayed: 33%
                 Maturation left: 3 hours, 50 minutes, 8 seconds.
        - Imprint #7:
                 Precise: 38.888888888888886%
                 Networked: 38.8889%
                 Displayed: 39%
                 Maturation left: 3 hours, 32 minutes, 22 seconds.
        - Imprint #8:
                 Precise: 44.44444444444444%
                 Networked: 44.4444%
                 Displayed: 44%
                 Maturation left: 3 hours, 14 minutes, 37 seconds.
        - Imprint #9:
                 Precise: 50.0%
                 Networked: 50.0%
                 Displayed: 50%
                 Maturation left: 2 hours, 56 minutes, 51 seconds.
        - Imprint #10:
                 Precise: 55.55555555555556%
                 Networked: 55.5556%
                 Displayed: 56%
                 Maturation left: 2 hours, 39 minutes, 6 seconds.
        - Imprint #11:
                 Precise: 61.11111111111111%
                 Networked: 61.1111%
                 Displayed: 61%
                 Maturation left: 2 hours, 21 minutes, 20 seconds.
        - Imprint #12:
                 Precise: 66.66666666666666%
                 Networked: 66.6667%
                 Displayed: 67%
                 Maturation left: 2 hours, 3 minutes, 34 seconds.
        - Imprint #13:
                 Precise: 72.22222222222221%
                 Networked: 72.2222%
                 Displayed: 72%
                 Maturation left: 1 hours, 45 minutes, 49 seconds.
        - Imprint #14:
                 Precise: 77.77777777777777%
                 Networked: 77.7778%
                 Displayed: 78%
                 Maturation left: 1 hours, 28 minutes, 3 seconds.
        - Imprint #15:
                 Precise: 83.33333333333333%
                 Networked: 83.3333%
                 Displayed: 83%
                 Maturation left: 1 hours, 10 minutes, 18 seconds.
        - Imprint #16:
                 Precise: 88.88888888888889%
                 Networked: 88.8889%
                 Displayed: 89%
                 Maturation left: 52 minutes, 32 seconds.
        - Imprint #17:
                 Precise: 94.44444444444444%
                 Networked: 94.4444%
                 Displayed: 94%
                 Maturation left: 34 minutes, 46 seconds.
        - Imprint #18:
                 Precise: 100%
                 Networked: 100%
                 Displayed: 100%
                 Maturation left: 17 minutes, 1 seconds.

 

 

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6 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

In conclusion, if the entire raise takes less than 16 hours you get 100% imprint regardless of the configured interval multiplier.

 

Exactly the issue... Basically Wildcard have deficated over all servers using fast maturation... and there's nothing we can do about it.  This setting is VERY broken.... Does NOT work and should be removed until they have a setting that does work...

There is no excuse for releasing broken features and ruining peoples game. At the very least there should be the option to disable this setting entirely.

Edited by NZScruffy
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4 minutes ago, NZScruffy said:

Exactly the issue... Basically Wildcard have deficated over all servers using fast maturation... and there's nothing we can do about it.  This setting is VERY broken.... Does NOT work and should be removed until they have a setting that does work...

There is no excuse for releasing broken features and ruining peoples game. At the very least there should be the option to disable this setting entirely.

This setting works as intended, except for raises that are < 16 hours which is most likely an oversight. All they are trying to do is offer server owners more flexibility, which we all should be grateful for. And as stated above, I'm sure they will fix it in due time; no need to panic.

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27 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

This setting works as intended, except for raises that are < 16 hours which is most likely an oversight. All they are trying to do is offer server owners more flexibility, which we all should be grateful for. And as stated above, I'm sure they will fix it in due time; no need to panic.

It's fantastic that they are offering this feature.

"Works as intended" and "except" are contradictory. Either it works as intended, or it doesn't. In this case, it doesn't. In a fairly widely used environment, this feature breaks what was working previously causing major issues. I'd hardly call that 'works as intended'

However, due to their 'oversight' (IE. failure to perform minimal play test), this has created a non-solvable ongoing broken breeding mechanic for all servers using boosted maturation at/above that level. We cannot fix it, the damage is done, and continues being done. This is permanent damage to ongoing servers. We have no solution but to either shut down the server or drastically alter maturation, both of which damage a server. There's no ability to disable it even. For myself, I've chosen to just accept it, players get free 100% imprint until Wildcard fix their 'oopsie'.

It's all very well to say 'oops', but this is real damage to real servers because they failed to test it.  If this was a one off 'oopsie', i can forgive it, but this happens with a large number of updates, consistently for years. They CAN avoid these issues a few ways, but the fact is, they simply don't care too. But hey... 'mistakes happen'
 

Edited by NZScruffy
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12 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

This setting works as intended, except for raises that are < 16 hours which is most likely an oversight. All they are trying to do is offer server owners more flexibility, which we all should be grateful for. And as stated above, I'm sure they will fix it in due time; no need to panic.

 

Well I just startet raising a Mosasaurus on our cluster. These are our settings:

BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier=0.11
BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier=12

So if my spreedsheat is right, this would mean 23 hours and 22 minutes for the mosa to grow up with 26 imprints each 4%, which feels right, it's been a few days since I last raised one. Anyhow, first imprint gave 50%. So doesn't seem to only affect dinos with a mature time under 16 hours. Same for the Giga on this settings, which also takes longer then 16 hours.

We haven't set the new config at all.

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2 hours ago, Emeldir said:

 

 

Well I just startet raising a Mosasaurus on our cluster. These are our settings:


BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier=0.11
BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier=12

So if my spreedsheat is right, this would mean 23 hours and 22 minutes for the mosa to grow up with 26 imprints each 4%, which feels right, it's been a few days since I last raised one. Anyhow, first imprint gave 50%. So doesn't seem to only affect dinos with a mature time under 16 hours. Same for the Giga on this settings, which also takes longer then 16 hours.

We haven't set the new config at all.

To get the same behaviour as before, you would set your BabyImprintAmountMultiplier to 1 / <BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier>. In your case, 1 / 12 = 0.083334. And now those imprints that gave 50%, would now properly give 50 * 0.083334 = 4.1667% each. As previously stated, the BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier was completely removed from the calculation which I believe was done on purpose to favour the new setting to allow for more flexibility (you can now control how much time you want spare for a raise and still get 100%) but the issue is that the new setting isn't applied when the game assume a single imprint is required (for tames that are < 8h or < 16h).

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9 hours ago, Tekcor said:

Unfortunately it's worse than that. You don't even have to use the setting to be bitten by the bug. Leave off the config or set it to 1, doesn't matter, it still happens.

That's my point. the entire setting needs to be removed URGENTLY, revert that change. Then fix and TEST the setting before releasing it again. Every minute this setting exists is damaging servers. Either fix it NOW and release update, or remove it.

Reverting back to before we had this setting will fix the problem. Those enjoying the new setting can wait till it's fixed and back.

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My cluster is currently enjoying 100% imprints on first cuddle on all dinos now.. How do we fix this? Why add such a game altering option and turn it ON by default? Why wouldn't BabyImprintAmountMultiplier=1.0 allow my server to operate in the same manner it was before? Isn't 1.0 "default"?

 

BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier=0.1666667
BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier=6.0
 
I used the math above and set BabyImprintAmountMultiplier=0.16666667 and it's still 100% imprint on first.
Edited by Zhandroid
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6 minutes ago, Zhandroid said:

My cluster is currently enjoying 100% imprints on first cuddle on all dinos now.. How do we fix this? Why add such a game altering option and turn it ON by default? Why wouldn't BabyImprintAmountMultiplier=1.0 allow my server to operate in the same manner it was before? Isn't 1.0 "default"?

 

BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier=0.1666667
BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier=6.0
 
I used the math above and set BabyImprintAmountMultiplier=0.16666667 and it's still 100% imprint on first.

You unfortunately can't fix it on your side. As stated above multiple times, if the entire raise takes less than 16h then you will get 100% on the first imprint because that new setting isn't applied in such cases. This is something that will have to be fixed in the game directly.

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On 7/10/2020 at 4:33 PM, NZScruffy said:

Indeed... they dump a setting on us, screw us over by NOT setting it as default, and no documentation on what exactly it does... that's Wildcard for you.. Geniuses.

Anyone got info on this, or we figure it out while breaking our own servers?

 

It looks like the patch note has been edited at some point (a rare thing). The edit added an explanation which I don't recall originally present:

Quote

Multiplier applied to the percentage each imprints provide. For example, if an imprint usually give 8%, setting this multiplier to 0.5 means they would now give 4% each. While setting it to 2.0 means they would now give 16% each, etc. This multiplier is global, meaning it will affect the imprinting progression of every species

 

Our cluster uses the now-bugged boosted raising -- but I'll check it tonight against 312.40 (fixes aren't always specified in the patch notes)

Update: nope still broken :(

imprint.thumb.jpg.f18fc2b6376a146572d44dc593bd95e6.jpg

Edited by singalty
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I don't get it.

The math for imprinting is very straightforward:

100% / floor(TotalMaturationTime / cuddleInterval)

So the new math would be:

floor (BabyImprintAmountMultiplier * (100 / (TotalMaturationTime / cuddleInterval)))

edit I moved the floor function because final result should always be a natural number.

 

But I don't even see how boosting the maturation would make any difference to the behavior of that equation.

 

Edited by singalty
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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, singalty said:

I don't even see how boosting the maturation would make any difference to the outcome of that equation.

As previously mentioned, the BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier was completely remove from the equation. And I believe it was intended so that server owners can independently configure the maturation speed, the cuddle intervals, as well as the imprinting amount and therefore offering much more flexibility than before. However, the problem arise when a raise is less than 8 hours or less than 16 hours. Basically, this is what it currently does (although definitely not exactly that, but that is exactly how the logic appears to behave):

from math import floor

def get_imprint_percentage(
    total_maturation, maturation_speed, imprint_amount):
    required = floor((total_maturation / maturation_speed) / (8 * 60 * 60))
    if required <= 1:
        return 100
    return round((100 / required) * imprint_amount, 6)


# A Giga with default settings
print(f'{get_imprint_percentage(1010101, 1, 1)}%') # 2.857143%

# A Giga with default settings but 1.5 imprint amount multiplier
print(f'{get_imprint_percentage(1010101, 1, 1.5)}%') # 4.285714%

# A Giga with 1500 mature speed multiplier
print(f'{get_imprint_percentage(1010101, 1500, 1)}%') # 100%

In other words, I suspect they still have a sanity check somewhere that ensure there is at least always 1 imprint required which returns 100% in such cases which currently doesn't properly apply the BabyImprintAmountMultiplier. Once that is fixed, we should be able to negate that by dividing our maturation speed multiplier as mentioned above.

Edited by invincibleqc
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1 minute ago, Zhandroid said:

Well, thanks for the thorough explanation @invincibleqc. Hopefully it's not too much longer before there's a fix.

I'm trying to think of a workaround for now so that my cluster doesn't become overloaded with max dinos. Disable imprinting? Back to 1.0x maturation? Is that even going to resolve this?

Slowing the maturation could be a solution, I guess. But I'm afraid it could potentially get your players bored if they have to sit and hand feed babies for a very long time. Perhaps increasing the mating interval could avoid that while also slowing the mass amount of perfect imprinted creatures on your server. Sure there would be some that would still benefit from this issues, but at least they wouldn't be able to get hundreds of them imprinted until a fix is released. Just an idea.

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10 minutes ago, Elgar said:

@invincibleqc

What do you think of this post on Steam forum : https://steamcommunity.com/app/346110/discussions/0/2647504242046174778/?ctp=2#c2647504242054467291

According to this user, he can do 3 imprints on a Rex with a raising time of 9 hours.

Hmm. Interestingly enough, I tested his settings just now and I properly got 34% imprint on a Rex. Which led me to re-test the ones I posted here and I properly got 9% with the following settings:

BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier=5.787000
BabyImprintAmountMultiplier=0.1727861771058315

However, I got 100% with the following ones:

BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier=11.575000
BabyImprintAmountMultiplier=0.0863930885529158

Meaning I overlooked raises that are < 16 and assumed they were also affected but turns out only raises that are < 8 are. So the following into the example I gave above:

    if required <= 1:
        return 100

Is rather:

    if not required:
        return 100

As for the following you posted on Steam (I believe that's you?):

Quote

Therefore, by setting BabyImprintAmountMultiplier=0.335, each imprint of your Rex should be now 16.67% * 0.335 = 5.58%. And you say it's 33%. As you can see, it's totally broken.

The output is correct because into a raise of 9 hours, there is only one 8 meaning the game assume 1 imprint at 100% * 0.335 = 33.5% (rounded and displayed as 34% in-game). Basically, the entire raise is divided by 8 regardless of the configured interval.

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