Chieftain Hat - Cultural Misappropriation?

[Vonpritz]

53 minutes ago, definitelynottyler said:

As someone who is actually a bunny irl, the Easter cosmetics trigger the hell out of me.

Peter Rabbit?

[Arumizy]

There has always got to be one party pooper , can't avoid it and you can't avoid their sense of intellectual superiority. First of all America is composed of hundreds of federally recognized tribes, second Americas culture is literally an amalgam of hundreds of cultures. Third I really don't think you know what ignorance actually is or means. Fourth pull the stick from your butt not everyone has to be perpetually offended and tip toe not to offend.

[Irk]

10 hours ago, Jtmorris said:

I don't think anyone is offended at the costume piece - more unsure if we should be.

This is the problem here. You're not sure if you should be offended so you want to get a general consensus to decide your opinion. People are currently jumping on this SJW bandwagon and getting triggered by anything that they can deem as insensitive to another. 

Is your wife Native American? How about yourself? Is your family Native American? Do you have Native American friends? If you answered no to these, then you and your wife shouldn't be worrying about if this hat is going to be offensive to someone and you shouldn't be basing your opinion on the fact that someone, somewhere, may kind of get slightly offended by this video game item.

Come to think of it though, why can't you make women characters as muscular as men? Women can get big and strong too!

#triggered

[Quetzal]

10 minutes ago, Irk said:

This is the problem here. You're not sure if you should be offended so you want to get a general consensus to decide your opinion. People are currently jumping on this SJW bandwagon and getting triggered by anything that they can deem as insensitive to another. 

This does indeed seem to be his 'problem' and if it is, he needs to have a look in the mirror and re-evaluate things (or his wife does, whatever)!!

It's not just limited to Native Americans - there are countless tribes the world over and they all have head pieces in common. Just check Google images for 'African tribes' (although this search could be a little NSFW so be warned!) and see the many, many different costumes - 'tribal headdress' is another example.

Tribes throughout human history have a long and detailed history of clothing and costume and they all have something in common - they're made from a variety of things that include the feathers of birds, the hide and teeth of kills and so on. You earn this chieftain hat from killing turkeys and surprise surprise, the hat is made from turkey feathers. It's NOT "misappropriated" from <x tribe> of America or <tribe y> of Kenya, it's just a turkey feather hat that you can wear and pretend to be the chief of your tribe. Note 'tribe' which happens to be a fundamental part of ARK.

I'd suggest a mod just closes/deletes this topic due to it's sheer foolishness.

[SmitedAsh]

4 hours ago, TranqRex said:

It's not an interesting discussion in the slightest, it's an attempt by someone to make something out of nothing.

It's a game where one of the core game mechanics is that you band together to form tribes. What is a common theme among tribes throughout history? A tribe chief! What did the tribe chief, aka the chieftain, wear? Oh let's see... a cool kind of head dress! Let's put one of those in the game!!

What if WC had put a Beefeater hat skin in the game? I mean it has nothing to do with tribes or whatever but still, let's run with it for a second - should the English be offended? Wait! There are dragons in the game!! That's a mis-appropriation of Nordic, Welsh/Celtic etc heritage!!

Get outta here with this nonsense, jeez where is this world heading.

Honestly, my dads side of the family is Jewish, my moms side is  Lakota Sioux.  I am not upset at the  fact there is a headdress in the game, as it was not just native Americans that wore them.  Many native Latin Americans also wore headdresses that were very similar, so you cant really put a finger on whom they represent.

if you put in a star of David patch as flair, that would be completely different... and highly offensive.

[ltbosox]

14 minutes ago, SmitedAsh said:

Honestly, my dads side of the family is Jewish, my moms side is  Lakota Sioux.  I am not upset at the  fact there is a headdress in the game, as it was not just native Americans that wore them.  Many native Latin Americans also wore headdresses that were very similar, so you cant really put a finger on whom they represent.

if you put in a star of David patch as flair, that would be completely different... and highly offensive.

I gotta ask. Why would the star of David be offensive. If they put it in the game due to some relevant holiday that it was involved in why would you take that in a negative way rather than perceive it as WC honoring that tradition?

Self proclaimed "intellectual" people must wear different panties than the rest of us because they sure seem to get twisted a whole lot easier. (I'm referencing OP's comment on this one but it replies to the whole world)

[SmitedAsh]

3 minutes ago, ltbosox said:

I gotta ask. Why would the star of David be offensive. If they put it in the game due to some relevant holiday that it was involved in why would you take that in a negative way rather than perceive it as WC honoring that tradition?

Self proclaimed "intellectual" people must wear different panties than the rest of us because they sure seem to get twisted a whole lot easier. (I'm referencing OP's comment on this one but it replies to the whole world)

Nazis forced Jews to wear Star of David patches in public so they could be easily identified and scrutinized.  There is absolutely no tradition to honor.

[ltbosox]

23 minutes ago, SmitedAsh said:

Nazis forced Jews to wear Star of David patches in public so they could be easily identified and scrutinized.  There is absolutely no tradition to honor.

I highly doubt WC would implement the star into the game in honor of a Nazi tradition. The holiday was fabricated to use for an example since you used the star as an example. Of course there's no holiday around it.

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

19 hours ago, Jtmorris said:

So my wife and I were playing and finally killed enough Turkeys for the Chieftain Hat skin. My wife (who is much more discerning than I), was a bit taken a back that the developers would choose to put in an item like that which is an important symbol and part of current and past Native culture. She wasn't conformable with it at all, and more a bad use of a cultural symbol. 

Do you think it's misappropriation? 

Share your thoughts on why or why not?

I really just enjoy playing ark and not wondering whether it's cultural or political or whatever this or that.  It's a game,  an escape, a form of entertainment.  No need to get that deep into it. It's a cool item that usually points to your own personal achievement of killing something that wasn't the easiest to kill (along with all the time and resources spent into taming or making the gear you used to kill it). 

[OGCookies]

15 hours ago, Jtmorris said:

Non intellectual conversation can be had elsewhere. 

----

Man, I don't know who peed in everyone's cornflakes this morning, but geez, put the knives away, take a step back, a deep breath and calm down.... I don't think anyone is offended at the costume piece - more unsure if we should be. Neither of us know much about Native culture, and that's a big reason I posted the question! Educating ourselves is better than resting in ignorance. Sorry that asking questions and beginning discussion offends some of you, but that type of mind numbing denial is not how I want to live my life, so I will just disagree that the question is not worth exploring. 

Some helpful insights in some of the above posts too. I would love to hear more thoughts about it. 

If you have to rally people and see what they think to form your own opinion you got some self confidence you need to be working on my friend, stop trying to make something out of nothing get a hobby

[Jtmorris]

Wow. So many of the responses on this thread are sad. (thanks to those who responded like a decent human being). 

I think many of you just don't even know what cultural appropriation even is, and I think most of you wouldn't be able to say why it is bad. This is CLEARLY an example of this concept (albeit insignificant in the grand scheme of things being that it is a costume piece from a video game). But obviously not an offensive example (and certainly not all are offensive to others, that's why I used the word misappropriation. However I'm sure there are some who feel that all cultural appropriation would be bad).

Never once did I imply I was upset or on any sort of crusade, however I am being crucified for asking a simple question (I feel like Adam Sandler here

 

The world is a better place because people ask questions despite being trashed for asking them. If you don't want to think about it, don't post. Though I didn't post my opinion on it, I did appreciate a bunch of posts on the matter though (especially the point that there are many different cultures that use the headdress. That's a great point and something we didn't consider. 

I find they hypocrisy in this thread very amusing. 

 

 

 

 

[Irk]

20 minutes ago, Jtmorris said:

 

Personally speaking, the "should we be offended or not?" tone from your post is what irritates me. It seemed more like a witch hunt than an inquisition. Perhaps it was your wording, but it seemed as if you were looking for a reason to hate on WC's decoration choice.

How would you view someone who gets offended on behalf of a culture they aren't part of? Now, how would you view someone who's debating if they should be offended on behalf of this culture or not?

[CovertLizard]

1 hour ago, Jtmorris said:

Wow. So many of the responses on this thread are sad. (thanks to those who responded like a decent human being). 

I think many of you just don't even know what cultural appropriation even is, and I think most of you wouldn't be able to say why it is bad. This is CLEARLY an example of this concept (albeit insignificant in the grand scheme of things being that it is a costume piece from a video game). But obviously not an offensive example (and certainly not all are offensive to others, that's why I used the word misappropriation. However I'm sure there are some who feel that all cultural appropriation would be bad).

Never once did I imply I was upset or on any sort of crusade, however I am being crucified for asking a simple question (I feel like Adam Sandler here)

 

The world is a better place because people ask questions despite being trashed for asking them. If you don't want to think about it, don't post. Though I didn't post my opinion on it, I did appreciate a bunch of posts on the matter though (especially the point that there are many different cultures that use the headdress. That's a great point and something we didn't consider. 

I find they hypocrisy in this thread very amusing. 

 

•  

 

 

 

"Sir, I will not tolerate any racist behavior on the plane"

What racist behavior?

"Cultural misappropriation"

What misappropriation?

The irony here is that adam sandler gets attacked because he makes some imagined offensive statements, much like putting a feathered headdress in a video game about dinosaurs is an imagined offensive act.

 

In the wider perspective, it is laughable to define black and white (poor word choice considering the audience perhaps?) boundaries for ANY culture. Every culture is essentially a combination of those that came before it, and to say that is appropriate for some cultures to use cultural objects, and not others is display of an extreme ignorance of the ways in which cultures diffuse and mix. Even intentionally offensive statements can make legitimate contributions to a "culture" (See: Yankee Doodle)

i.e. just because you don't want someone to use traditions/artifacts that you consider to be a part of your culture does not give you proprietary rights over said traditions/artifacts.

 

EDIT: I really only came in here to say, you know you've hit the big time when someone is offended by the choices you make! GG Ark!

[Ranger1]

1 hour ago, Jtmorris said:

Wow. So many of the responses on this thread are sad. (thanks to those who responded like a decent human being). 

I think many of you just don't even know what cultural appropriation even is, and I think most of you wouldn't be able to say why it is bad. This is CLEARLY an example of this concept (albeit insignificant in the grand scheme of things being that it is a costume piece from a video game). But obviously not an offensive example (and certainly not all are offensive to others, that's why I used the word misappropriation. However I'm sure there are some who feel that all cultural appropriation would be bad).

Never once did I imply I was upset or on any sort of crusade, however I am being crucified for asking a simple question (I feel like Adam Sandler here

 

The world is a better place because people ask questions despite being trashed for asking them. If you don't want to think about it, don't post. Though I didn't post my opinion on it, I did appreciate a bunch of posts on the matter though (especially the point that there are many different cultures that use the headdress. That's a great point and something we didn't consider. 

I find they hypocrisy in this thread very amusing. 

 

•  

 

 

 

Heh, no offense JT, but you do realize that in that scene you represent the stewardess, right? 

[OGCookies]

I love how he started this thread me and my wife are offended now he switches his story to "should we be offended" stop just spewing non sense this thread really should be deleted absolutely nothing constructive here just a trash mentality 

[Jtmorris]

36 minutes ago, OGCookies said:

I love how he started this thread me and my wife are offended now he switches his story to "should we be offended" stop just spewing non sense this thread really should be deleted absolutely nothing constructive here just a trash mentality 

Heh, you need to practice your reading comprehension skills. Read it again. I never stated my opinion, and I only said my wife was taken aback. I even said the discussion was "around the appropriate use of something like that, not necessarily if it offended you or not." But thanks for the uber constructive and very ironic contribution to the thread.

10 hours ago, Arumizy said:

...Third I really don't think you know what ignorance actually is or means....

Really? Where did I misuse it? Perhaps I'm not the one who is ignorant to the definition. (See what I did there?)

44 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

Heh, no offense JT, but you do realize that in that scene you represent the stewardess, right? 

I'm overreacting? How so? I am responding and reacting to the mean spirited attacks, but that's because I'm human and really disappointed by the aggressiveness that people have shown (which is what I see is the overreaction) imo.

 

1 hour ago, Irk said:

Personally speaking, the "should we be offended or not?" tone from your post is what irritates me. It seemed more like a witch hunt than an inquisition. Perhaps it was your wording, but it seemed as if you were looking for a reason to hate on WC's decoration choice.

How would you view someone who gets offended on behalf of a culture they aren't part of? Now, how would you view someone who's debating if they should be offended on behalf of this culture or not?

Thanks for this. I certainly don't read it with the tone of a witch hunt because I don't feel like that. So you are probably right, the wording probably doesn't reflect the intended tone. And I certainly am not upset at WC's choice, nor is my wife. In fact, in our discussion, I was on the "It's not a big deal side, and she was pointing out that depending on what the symbol means, it might be off base to use it as a costume piece (but we don't know). Cultural appropriation can be a bad thing, and people often spur on foolish practices because they just go with the flow and don't ever ask questions because "no harm intended" (think racism, women being allowed to vote, body image etc). But even my wife is not offended but it (she likes it and wears it in game). So my question was not in any way intended to be taken as a with hunt, so thanks for pointing that out. I will add a note in the original post.

And as for your second point, I think advocating for each other is important, so we might disagree on what you are trying to make a point of there. 

[OGCookies]

40 minutes ago, Jtmorris said:

Heh, you need to practice your reading comprehension skills. Read it again. I never stated my opinion, and I only said my wife was taken aback. I even said the discussion was "around the appropriate use of something like that, not necessarily if it offended you or not." But thanks for the uber constructive and very ironic contribution to the thread.

 

You literally started this thread with intentions to cause an issue and hiding behind your wives opinion is just straight up sad, your not going to get uber constructive contribution to a thread like this and im pretty sure you knew that, literally the entire community including native americans who have the right to have an opinion on the fact have told you that making a thread like this is offending to begin with just stop and go post something constructive to the game if you want constructive feedback

[mronemanmob]

How come there is only male or female characters to choose from?

What about the unethical treatment of turkeys?

How come new players don't have access to ascendant gear - social injustice?

How come people have to play with characters that have both legs...what about amputees?

How come a white character can whip a black one with whips?

How come two female or two male dinosaurs can't adopt?

How come men characters can punch female characters?

Why is murder and theft encouraged?

How come dinosaurs can be aborted by eating the fertilized egg?

Why can't my dinosaur vote in real life presidential elections?

How come rainbows don't have ALL the colors?

Why do people worry about crap that doesn't matter?

Why is the structure limit so low on rafts?

How can a question get someone so distraught?

Do words really mean anything?

Isn't culture just a form of art?

Shouldn't we share art?

Love.

calm down it's just an emoqwapoem<----made that word up just now only because I'm not sure if there is a name for a poem formed from questions that may stir emotions

 

[OGCookies]

Just now, mronemanmob said:

How come there is only male or female characters to choose from?

What about the unethical treatment of turkeys?

How come new players don't have access to ascendant gear - social injustice?

How come people have to play with characters that have both legs...what about amputees?

How come a white character can whip a black one with whips?

How come two female or two male dinosaurs can't adopt?

How come men characters can punch female characters?

Why is murder and theft encouraged?

How come dinosaurs can be aborted by eating the fertilized egg?

Why can't my dinosaur vote in real life presidential elections?

How come rainbows don't have ALL the colors?

Why do people worry about crap that doesn't matter?

Why is the structure limit so low on rafts?

How can a question get someone so distraught?

Do words really mean anything?

Isn't culture just a form of art?

Shouldn't we share art?

Love.

calm down it's just an emoqwapoem<----made that word up just now only because I'm not sure if there is a name for a poem formed from questions that may stir emotions

 

Literally made me start laughing non stop at work thank you for this

[Irk]

5 minutes ago, mronemanmob said:

Why is the structure limit so low on rafts?

triggered

[Jtmorris]

1 hour ago, OGCookies said:

You literally started this thread with intentions to cause an issue and hiding behind your wives opinion is just straight up sad, your not going to get uber constructive contribution to a thread like this and im pretty sure you knew that, literally the entire community including native americans who have the right to have an opinion on the fact have told you that making a thread like this is offending to begin with just stop and go post something constructive to the game if you want constructive feedback

Wrong. But thanks again for another useless inflammatory comment.  You initially added a good comment, but if you don't care so much, get back to work instead of being a 

[OGCookies]

Just now, Jtmorris said:

Wrong. But thanks again for another useless inflammatory comment.  You initially added a good comment, but if you don't care so much, get back to work instead of being a 

Your entire post is useless don't expect responses in any other form, not one person in here supports your statement, backwards thinking like this is what stops actual important things from getting done. I will admit i am a bit confused what were you hoping to accomplish by posting this? or is it as useless as everyone here thinks it is

[ehuhoser]

Basically no, it should not be something to be offended with.  Heritage is something not to be ashamed with, history is not to be ashamed with, but learning from mistakes and not using that gained knowledge to repeat those same mistakes is.  I won't say what you had for intentions when you first posted, I won't say anything along the lines because to do so I would have to step inside your brain and reason with it to gain your perspective.  I simply won't do that for anyone.

Generally the world today is generally an uptight one.  Suing, finding ways to be offended with some people (not saying you are OP), jumping on bandwagons to gain social appeal seems to be the way for many.  I'm not saying the OP was trying to do anything but bring out the curious nature of what people might see but not say but again I'm not the OP so I will simply say I see what you might be hinting at or try to understand from your perspective.

Now am I offended, nope, and never even crossed my mind to be offensive.  From both sides of my family I have native blood running through my body.  In fact I'm descendant from the very first encounters with Natives and English travelers looking for a new freedom.  More pure blood lines might be offended based on their life experiences, but I think it comes down to who they are as a person and what their goal is not just native but also any person for that matter.  Anyway back to point, I'm sorry for the long winded-ness of my post.  

I think what our life experiences, our history, our upbringing, etc make up who we are and what we believe to be offensive, allow for thinner skin instead of thicker; the area in which we live, and thus, makes for good debates to what can be new social acceptable ideas.  Just as we have calm ideology discussions, also spawns passionate discussions.  A winded post to basically say no right .  @Jtmorris I think you was honestly curious about a symbol in a game.  I don't think you had an intentions to make WC seem disrespectful to natives or any other party as well.  I think that many jumped a little too quickly to assume what you were saying into what you was meaning.  From my perspective, I can only say that I find it hard to be offensive on many things, but that is what is hard about today, and what bandwagon we jump on.  I think that I cannot be offended by something that I have no history with or empathize with.  As an example.  I have native blood in me, but my life experiences vs a true native is vastly different.  Does that mean that I can be offended easily with native culture misused?  I don't think so.  I respect but I cannot jump on that bandwagon of those who might be offended because I myself, are not them, which brings me to why I stated life experiences, upbringing etc matters a lot.  On symbols I look what feeling and images it gains vs what is actually there.   Again I cannot speak for anyone but myself.

[Gunslingerediel]

Geez this hat thing still going? get over it so we can talk about the injustice the turkeys have been misrepresented as blood thursty killing machines #allturkeylivesmatter 

[Jtmorris]

16 hours ago, BulletForce said:

17 minutes ago, OGCookies said:

... not one person in here supports your statement, backwards thinking like this is what stops actual important things from getting done..... 

Sorry for the messed up quotes. Mobile version is still messed up. 

And what "statement" exactly are you talking about? I didn't state anything (reading compression dude...)