Tranqs Analyzed

[Detswit]

Hey all! So I've seen a lot of discussion on what's the best way to tranq a Dino, and there has been a lot of confusion. I was planning on doing some scorpion taming to create a Dino taming team, but didn't want to waste my time. Well, I'm glad I did because the results were ridiculous. In my opinion, the scorpions and frog's need a serious update because they're way too weak at knocking dinos out. Here is the excel sheet where I break down all the numbers. Conclusion is to use crossbows until you can use tranq darts. For a breakdown of the analysis, listen to Episode 7 of our podcast, SurvivingtheArkcast. 

*Stacks Torpor - "A second arrow hitting the target will not override the torpor-over-time effect of the first arrow, the effects of multiple arrows will instead stack. That means it's not necessary to wait in between shots to gain the maximum torpor."

*Stacks Time - "Hitting the target with another dart before the first one delivers all of its torpor will stack the effect in terms of time, meaning that if you hit a target a second time while it still has2 seconds of torpor increase, it will then have 7 seconds of torpor increase."

 

[EdGein]

Darts are for any big Dino's like rexes/gigas/Quetz because they deliver 3 narcotics in one shot without doing too much damage. Tranq arrows will work fine for anything else so save your darts for when you need them 

[MrDynamicMan]

darts for dinos that need them, flyers, low health dinos, etc. tranq arrows from good Xbow for anything else.

[Detswit]

As long as the flyer has decent health (argent/ptera) I'd use a tranq arrow because you get a 1.5x boost to torpor. Makes it worth saving the darts imo. 

[MrDynamicMan]

3 minutes ago, Detswit said:

As long as the flyer has decent health (argent/ptera) I'd use a tranq arrow because you get a 1.5x boost to torpor. Makes it worth saving the darts imo. 

its easier to hit a fleeing ptera with a dart though.

[EdGein]

All fliers but quetzals, we had some guys kill a 120 the other night trying to tranq it with arrows when I wasn't on, such a waste of a beautiful bird

[d1nk]

Thanks for that spreadsheet !! I love hard evidence numbers  +rep I'll use this often

[Reese33]

so I'm a bit confused about the stackable section what exactly does it mean when it says "stacks torpor" and "stacks time"?

I'm sure its very simple but I'm just confused.

[TheRealTFreezy]

1 minute ago, Reese33 said:

so I'm a bit confused about the stackable section what exactly does it mean when it says "stacks torpor" and "stacks time"?

I'm sure its very simple but I'm just confused.

It's like it has 4 seconds on spreading out the 100 torpor or whatever it is. But if you hit it with an arrow again at only 2 seconds then now you have 6 seconds to spread the rest of that 100 plus 100 more. If you did it again your have 8 seconds and so on.

[Reese33]

1 minute ago, TheRealTFreezy said:

It's like it has 4 seconds on spreading out the 100 torpor or whatever it is. But if you hit it with an arrow again at only 2 seconds then now you have 6 seconds to spread the rest of that 100 plus 100 more. If you did it again your have 8 seconds and so on.

so if your running turning around tranqing repeat. its good to hit your target with a few tranqs in case you have to run father or some obstacle is in your way?

[Detswit]

25 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

its easier to hit a fleeing ptera with a dart though.

That's fair. I usually wait for one to land, walk up and headshot it with a tranq arrow from a crossbow. At that point, I'll hit it again with a body shot as it flied away. Because the tranq arrows stack, you can shoot it as fast as you reload. That pumps 827 torpor into the bird, which is enough to bring any ptera down that's lvl 90 or less. This is assuming a lvl 1 ptera has a base torpor of 120, then gets +7.2/wild point spent. So even a lvl 98 would have at max, 768 torpor.

[Kraken]

It's an excellent analysis, and draws the correct conclusion that tranq darts are the best thing to use to ko things, however, cold hard numbers just can't convey the thrill and fun to be had when knocking something like a carno out by using a high level frog

[Detswit]

8 minutes ago, Reese33 said:

so I'm a bit confused about the stackable section what exactly does it mean when it says "stacks torpor" and "stacks time"?

I'm sure its very simple but I'm just confused.

I should have probably explained that better. I'll edit my post.

Stacks Torpor - "A second arrow hitting the target will not override the torpor-over-time effect of the first arrow, the effects of multiple arrows will instead stack. That means it's not necessary to wait in between shots to gain the maximum torpor."

Stacks Time - "Hitting the target with another dart before the first one delivers all of its torpor will stack the effect in terms of time, meaning that if you hit a target a second time while it still has2 seconds of torpor increase, it will then have 7 seconds of torpor increase."

[Detswit]

1 minute ago, Kraken said:

It's an excellent analysis, and draws the correct conclusion that tranq darts are the best thing to use to ko things, however, cold hard numbers just can't convey the thrill and fun to be had when knocking something like a carno out by using a high level frog

That is absolutely true Kraken! Just be sure to use the sweep attack (20 damage/60 torpor) vs stab attack (12 damage/ 36 torpor). Unless the creature is close to death. :-)

[Reese33]

3 minutes ago, Detswit said:

I should have probably explained that better. I'll edit my post.

Stacks Torpor - "A second arrow hitting the target will not override the torpor-over-time effect of the first arrow, the effects of multiple arrows will instead stack. That means it's not necessary to wait in between shots to gain the maximum torpor."

Stacks Time - "Hitting the target with another dart before the first one delivers all of its torpor will stack the effect in terms of time, meaning that if you hit a target a second time while it still has2 seconds of torpor increase, it will then have 7 seconds of torpor increase."

Thanks for this I'm a big tranqer/tamer but I've been taming the old outdated way of shooting every 5 seconds this will help speed things up

[Detswit]

36 minutes ago, EdGein said:

All fliers but quetzals, we had some guys kill a 120 the other night trying to tranq it with arrows when I wasn't on, such a waste of a beautiful bird

I'm glad you mentioned this. ALWAYS use Darts on Quetz. They're lvl 1 base health is 1500 and gets +300/point while their base Torpor is 1850 and gets +111/point. Chances are (especially on a low lvl quetz) that it's health is less than it's torpor. So always use that dart, or be ready to harvest some prime meat seasoned in tears.

[Detswit]

1 minute ago, Reese33 said:

Thanks for this I'm a big tranqer/tamer but I've been taming the old outdated way of shooting every 5 seconds this will help speed things up

I was totally doing the same. Once I read this, I totally face palmed.

[Jerryn]

Note on Topor. 

Wilds get topor points per level, not per random stat point.  What that means, the stat points are spread randomly between Health, Stam, O2, Food, Weight, Melee, and Speed(tracked but no impact; sadly).  So, every 120 Q should have the same exact Topor;  1850 + (111*119) = 15059. 

Then the same happens during the taming process, with the final tame level determining the Topor level; again, there are no random stat points applied.

I have two 179 Qs, at tame.  The Topor on both of them is 21608.5.  There is .5 taming bonus(no idea why), so deduct that, leaving 21608.  Then Level 1 starts at 1850, so subtract that, leaving 19758.  Divide that by 111, which is the amount of Topor added per level, which comes out to be 178.  178 + 1 = 179 = the level of my two tamed Qs.

After tame, they no longer gain Topor for any add on levels.

[Detswit]

3 minutes ago, Jerryn said:

Note on Topor. 

Wilds get topor points per level, not per random stat point.  What that means, the stat points are spread randomly between Health, Stam, O2, Food, Weight, Melee, and Speed(tracked but no impact; sadly).  So, every 120 Q should have the same exact Topor;  1850 + (111*119) = 15059. 

Then the same happens during the taming process, with the final tame level determining the Topor level; again, there are no random stat points applied.

I have two 179 Qs, at tame.  The Topor on both of them is 21608.5.  There is .5 taming bonus(no idea why), so deduct that, leaving 21608.  Then Level 1 starts at 1850, so subtract that, leaving 19758.  Divide that by 111, which is the amount of Topor added per level, which comes out to be 178.  178 + 1 = 179 = the level of my two tamed Qs.

After tame, they no longer gain Topor for any add on levels.

Jerryn, thank you for this info! I thought this was the case, but hadn't done the homework. So this means it's easy to know what torpor a Dino has, and you pump the exact number of arrows/darts into them in rapid succession and then kite till they drop. 

[D4u2s0t]

44 minutes ago, Detswit said:

I'm glad you mentioned this. ALWAYS use Darts on Quetz. They're lvl 1 base health is 1500 and gets +300/point while their base Torpor is 1850 and gets +111/point. Chances are (especially on a low lvl quetz) that it's health is less than it's torpor. So always use that dart, or be ready to harvest some prime meat seasoned in tears.

We've dropped maybe 5 or 6 quetzals with arrows, never had them with low damage after they are unconscious.   Tranq arrows do much less damage than regular arrows do, and they do extra torpor.  Tamed a level 4 last night, had 1500 health, and after we knocked it unconscious it still had over 1200/1500  health. I think my buddy had a journeyman crossbow.   Knocked one out with arrows, had a raptor chew on it for a while and still had more than half health.  Make sure to hit your headshot!  We have never lost more than a few hundred health unless an animal attacks the quetzal before we wall it off.  You do significantly more torpor than damage with a crossbow and tranq arrows.  You're talking about a damage difference of NINE per shot between a crossbow and a rifle.   This means if it takes you 20 shots, you're talking a difference of 180 health.  Major mistakes must be made to kill your quetzal with arrows, especially a low level one.  :-) Using the wiki, which is often wrong in terms of # of shots/darts because of unknown variables,  knocking out a level 1 with darts will result in 225 damage.  Using arrows would be 420 damage.   Tranq arrows do 35 damage, and with a stock bow they will do 157.5 torpor.  You have to factor the additional torpor in your equations.  :-)  Generally bows will become a concern only if you get extremely lucky with a high level quetzal that has next to zero health upgrades.   Math and risk factor say this should be a non issue, unless you are waiting too long and allowing the animal to regain torpor.  

I'm not saying this will apply in all situations, but from my personal experience there is no issue or difference (outside of saving some time) to use darts vs. arrows.  However, the arrows are significantly cheaper and easier to acquire.  

Darts are much quicker though.  Headshots make a substantial difference.  

This applies to other animals as well.  I have tamed several close to 120 argy with arrows, 116 raptor, I basically do all the taming with tranq arrows because for a 2 man tribe the darts are expensive.  I'm yet to kill a single animal because of using arrows, and they are never even close to death.  I lost a total of 1 argy, it was over level 100, but that was because I forgot to set my attack argy to passive before starting the tame, and he took a beating very quickly.  This conclusion has been drawn over taming hundreds of animals across various servers.  

If we had a bigger tribe, darts would be a no brainer for the simple fact that you can save a decent amount of time.  

[cad]

37 minutes ago, Detswit said:

Jerryn, thank you for this info! I thought this was the case, but hadn't done the homework. So this means it's easy to know what torpor a Dino has, and you pump the exact number of arrows/darts into them in rapid succession and then kite till they drop. 

That's also how all the taming-calculator can tell you how many darts/tranq-arrows etc you need to knock out the creatures.

@Jerryn: Worth noting is also the torpor-bug. After a taming-process that gave bonus-level, the torpor is shown as twice the wild levels plus the bonus levels, resulting in a way too high number. The number is later shown correctly (after a server-restart I guess).

[Detswit]

23 minutes ago, D4u2s0t said:

We've dropped maybe 5 or 6 quetzals with arrows, never had them with low damage after they are unconscious.   Tranq arrows do much less damage than regular arrows do, and they do extra torpor.  Tamed a level 4 last night, had 1500 health, and after we knocked it unconscious it still had over 1200/1500  health. I think my buddy had a journeyman crossbow.   Knocked one out with arrows, had a raptor chew on it for a while and still had more than half health.  Make sure to hit your headshot!  We have never lost more than a few hundred health unless an animal attacks the quetzal before we wall it off.  You do significantly more torpor than damage with a crossbow and tranq arrows.  You're talking about a damage difference of NINE per shot between a crossbow and a rifle.   This means if it takes you 20 shots, you're talking a difference of 180 health.  Major mistakes must be made to kill your quetzal with arrows, especially a low level one.  :-) Using the wiki, which is often wrong in terms of # of shots/darts because of unknown variables,  knocking out a level 1 with darts will result in 225 damage.  Using arrows would be 420 damage.   Tranq arrows do 35 damage, and with a stock bow they will do 157.5 torpor.  You have to factor the additional torpor in your equations.  :-)  Generally bows will become a concern only if you get extremely lucky with a high level quetzal that has next to zero health upgrades.   Math and risk factor say this should be a non issue, unless you are waiting too long and allowing the animal to regain torpor.  

I'm not saying this will apply in all situations, but from my personal experience there is no issue or difference (outside of saving some time) to use darts vs. arrows.  However, the arrows are significantly cheaper and easier to acquire.  

Darts are much quicker though.  Headshots make a substantial difference.  

This applies to other animals as well.  I have tamed several close to 120 argy with arrows, 116 raptor, I basically do all the taming with tranq arrows because for a 2 man tribe the darts are expensive.  I'm yet to kill a single animal because of using arrows, and they are never even close to death.  I lost a total of 1 argy, it was over level 100, but that was because I forgot to set my attack argy to passive before starting the tame, and he took a beating very quickly.  This conclusion has been drawn over taming hundreds of animals across various servers.  

If we had a bigger tribe, darts would be a no brainer for the simple fact that you can save a decent amount of time.  

I think the issue comes in when the time between hitting the quetz takes longer than the 4 sec. arrow countdown and they have time to regain torpor. I agree that arrows are much cheaper, and they do get the 1.5x bonus (both to damage and torpor) when shooting quetz, but the issue comes in generally when taming a quetz for the first time. With a two man team, it's usually done with an argy and carried shooter. When you shoot the quetz, it has time and speed to get away from the argy. In the time it takes to catch up, the torpor is already regaining, while the health comes back more slowly. Then there are bugs of hitting the quetz with an arrow, but it not registering. In a perfect scenario (or if you already have a quetz) it's much easier to get those headshots and make sure they count. Also, keeping up with a wild is much easier. But all in all, I'd say a safer approach is still the darts. I hear you on the resource issue (they are super expensive). But for taming a first quetz without your own? I'd recommend darts. They give 5 second ToTs which means there's less time for the torpor to start replenishing between shots. This is totally my own preference, and obviously it can be done with arrows. I tip my hat to your pro-taming skills sir. My friend and I turned our first quetz-tame-attempt into raw prime. On our second try the thing vanished. We finally got our first quetz using darts and argy carrying, then a week later, the server was unexpectedly wiped. Sigh, unofficial servers have their drawbacks.

[D4u2s0t]

9 minutes ago, Detswit said:

I think the issue comes in when the time between hitting the quetz takes longer than the 4 sec. arrow countdown and they have time to regain torpor. I agree that arrows are much cheaper, and they do get the 1.5x bonus (both to damage and torpor) when shooting quetz, but the issue comes in generally when taming a quetz for the first time. With a two man team, it's usually done with an argy and carried shooter. When you shoot the quetz, it has time and speed to get away from the argy. In the time it takes to catch up, the torpor is already regaining, while the health comes back more slowly. Then there are bugs of hitting the quetz with an arrow, but it not registering. In a perfect scenario (or if you already have a quetz) it's much easier to get those headshots and make sure they count. Also, keeping up with a wild is much easier. But all in all, I'd say a safer approach is still the darts. I hear you on the resource issue (they are super expensive). But for taming a first quetz without your own? I'd recommend darts. They give 5 second ToTs which means there's less time for the torpor to start replenishing between shots. This is totally my own preference, and obviously it can be done with arrows. I tip my hat to your pro-taming skills sir. My friend and I turned our first quetz-tame-attempt into raw prime. On our second try the thing vanished. We finally got our first quetz using darts and argy carrying, then a week later, the server was unexpectedly wiped. Sigh, unofficial servers have their drawbacks.

Oh don't get me wrong, I should have explained a bit more.  The darts are substantially better.  I just didn't want small tribes to think that taming was going to be impossible, or take a ridiculously long time.  If you have the ability, darts are a much better/easier option and will save you time in the long run for sure.  

We've had our share of poor quetzal tames too, one time we had 3 on the map.  Dropped the first one, it got eaten.  Dropped the 2nd one, couldn't find it.  The third one got stuck in a tree, and we were only able to tame it because I had high stamina in my argy.  I had to hold my tribemate in the air for literally the entire tame, and I couldn't see anything through the trees, so we flying based only on his directions, in the pitch dark lol.  Of course, as we are finished with the tame, out comes the sun.  Yikes.  

[TheRealTFreezy]

1 hour ago, Reese33 said:

so if your running turning around tranqing repeat. its good to hit your target with a few tranqs in case you have to run father or some obstacle is in your way?

Yeah if that's how your doing it that would help keep the torpor up. I generally just pump anything I'm trying to knock out and when I'm getting close based on the amount of arrows I've used, I slow down a bit. You just want to be careful not to hit it after its knocked out. Because it could just drop right before a shot due to built up torpor

[Jerryn]

2 minutes ago, D4u2s0t said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I should have explained a bit more.  The darts are substantially better.  I just didn't want small tribes to think that taming was going to be impossible, or take a ridiculously long time.  If you have the ability, darts are a much better/easier option and will save you time in the long run for sure.  

We've had our share of poor quetzal tames too, one time we had 3 on the map.  Dropped the first one, it got eaten.  Dropped the 2nd one, couldn't find it.  The third one got stuck in a tree, and we were only able to tame it because I had high stamina in my argy.  I had to hold my tribemate in the air for literally the entire tame, and I couldn't see anything through the trees, so we flying based only on his directions, in the pitch dark lol.  Of course, as we are finished with the tame, out comes the sun.  Yikes.  

Not to derail, but it took me 4 times on solo to get my first Q; 1 stuck in a tree, cutting down tree did not help me(seriously?!?!?!); 1 lost in the woods and never found; 1 drowned; and finally 1 down at 50/50, took post tranq damage, but finally got it tamed.

And, for some things, depending on the damage bonus of your guns or crossbows, tranq arrows can be a better option.   Dropping a giga, you just shoot as fast as possible, don't worry about topor stacking, and only stop when it drops.