Turrets 2: Electric Boogaloo (Or, what are we actually doing?)

[Crows]

Please don't go forward with what you've currently released. Level 100 Requirement for the Heavy Turret is ridiculous and a kick in the face to most(?) of the Official PvP server playerbase, especially on console. Plus, the heavy turret is underwhelming and is too costly to maintain. Tribes are going to be forced to grind for 100 heavy turrets just to avoid getting wiped, and that's so many Advanced Rifle Bullets that I can't even begin to count.

I'm asking myself, do I want to play Ark (since I only play PvP) anymore when I'll have to grind countless numbers of bullets for the new turrets, since they're still easily drained (from video footage I've seen) if I even manage to get to level 100 (in quite a few months)? The answer is no. I'd rather play another game, sorry. Well, not sorry - you've already got my money, but at least I can justify not paying for future DLC/season pass, etc.

[Hawk69]

My base had around 3K turrets, I just switched all the turrets on my base into new Heavy Turrets, and I must say this 100 limit is pure joke, base is now so poorly defended, I got feeling it can be raided from just about anyone, problem is there is main building with crafting area + dino pen a bit further away, both need to be defended from 4 sides + roofs so I got 10 sides I need to protect, just simply impossible with 100 limitation, i got around 30 plant X and 70 turrets meaning I got like 8 heavy turrets per side... and had to remove all protection I had from above and inside... so no turrets protecting inside of base... no turrets protecting roof ... anyway it's just BULLpoop this 100 limitation ! 

You devs need to reconsider this silly number and boost it to minimum 300-400, or 500 would be tolerable limit I could live with... 100 I just cant !! ... or if not that than at least put every single turret on different counter, so we can have 100 plantX, 100 normal turrets, 100 Heavy turrets.

THIS WILL JUST NOT WORK LIKE IT IS NOW !!! IS JUST SUCKS !!!!

 

[Zederia]

@Hawk69 I set our server to 200 and that seems about the sweet spot for heavy defense

[Shinta]

buff plant X and put them on a separate cap. Maybe consider giving them a faster rate of fire, better tracking and splash damage/slow 

[Hawk69]

24 minutes ago, Zederia said:

@Hawk69 I set our server to 200 and that seems about the sweet spot for heavy defense

I don't know man... if you got big base, multiple buildings multiple rooms inside even 200 feels like way too low, but 100 ... it's a BAD JOKE !

[ciabattaroll]

On 11/30/2017 at 5:54 AM, Crows said:

Please don't go forward with what you've currently released. Level 100 Requirement for the Heavy Turret is ridiculous and a kick in the face to most(?) of the Official PvP server playerbase, especially on console. Plus, the heavy turret is underwhelming and is too costly to maintain. Tribes are going to be forced to grind for 100 heavy turrets just to avoid getting wiped, and that's so many Advanced Rifle Bullets that I can't even begin to count.

I'm asking myself, do I want to play Ark (since I only play PvP) anymore when I'll have to grind countless numbers of bullets for the new turrets, since they're still easily drained (from video footage I've seen) if I even manage to get to level 100 (in quite a few months)? The answer is no. I'd rather play another game, sorry. Well, not sorry - you've already got my money, but at least I can justify not paying for future DLC/season pass, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't players going on and on about how the new turret should cost old turrets to make? If memory serves right they were even saying "since it's supposed to be 4x as powerful make it cost 4 turrets". As it currently is, the 1 auto turret and the remaining materials required cost less than the 4 people demanded. If you're referring to repair costs though, that's more to do with how the game calculates repair costs, which is to require all ingredients needed to craft it, with amount required scaling up based on the % of damage the item has. But since you only need 1 auto turret to craft it then even with only 1 damage on the heavies they will still require 1 auto turret. Maybe they'll look back at that and change costs similar to how electric prods are, but I don't know how feasible that is to implement as prods are ever only fully repaired or fully broken with no spot in between, so having it not follow that repair formula is easier to implement for it.

[Hawk69]

1 minute ago, ciabattaroll said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't players going on and on about how the new turret should cost old turrets to make? If memory serves right they were even saying "since it's supposed to be 4x as powerful make it cost 4 turrets". As it currently is, the 1 auto turret and the remaining materials required cost less than the 4 people demanded. If you're referring to repair costs though, that's more to do with how the game calculates repair costs, which is to require all ingredients needed to craft it, with amount required scaling up based on the % of damage the item has. But since you only need 1 auto turret to craft it then even with only 1 damage on the heavies they will still require 1 auto turret. Maybe they'll look back at that and change costs similar to how electric prods are, but I don't know how feasible that is to implement as prods are ever only fully repaired or fully broken with no spot in between, so having it not follow that repair formula is easier to implement for it.

why would you even bother repairing it ??? full HP or 1HP it still gets destroyed by single rocket/C4 ....

[ciabattaroll]

Just now, Hawk69 said:

why would you even bother repairing it ??? full HP or 1HP it still gets destroyed by single rocket/C4 ....

I was answering his post in regards to the cost of maintenance for turrets, how slow or quick the turret gets destroyed was something fairly irrelevant to his statement.

[Hawk69]

1 minute ago, ciabattaroll said:

I was answering his post in regards to the cost of maintenance for turrets, how slow or quick the turret gets destroyed was something fairly irrelevant to his statement.

Just saying why would you repair it... why would you maintain it to keep it at maximum hp when it does not matter how much hit points it has... it does not lose HP when it shoots... right ?? anyway turret is made out of metal... it should be treated as metal building not stone... same goes for normal turrets...

[Hawk69]

13 minutes ago, Hawk69 said:

If memory serves right they were even saying "since it's supposed to be 4x as powerful make it cost 4 turrets"

Yea exactly it should have been like this... now we are still left with 1000's of turrets and no use for them, I got 20 vaults full of autoturrets, it feels like such a shame to just grind them and lose 50% of mats...

[ciabattaroll]

1 minute ago, Hawk69 said:

Yea exactly it should have been like this... now we are still left with 1000's of turrets and no use for them, I got 20 vaults full of autoturrets, it feels like such a shame to just grind them and lose 50% of mats...

Considering that you yourself state they blow up in one rocket then you clearly now have a pre-saved amount of turrets you can use for crafting replacement heavy turrets when they get blown up.

[Hawk69]

3 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Considering that you yourself state they blow up in one rocket then you clearly now have a pre-saved amount of turrets you can use for crafting replacement heavy turrets when they get blown up.

It's not a problem to replace them... problem is you cant place enough of them to provide sufficient defense... that is the main problem now... It's like Dev's are forcing us all to go live in cave or some spot like that where you only need to defend from one side... in that case 100 turrets just might provide sufficient dps to hold off raiders while you are sleeping... if you have normal base and you need to defend 5 or more sides... it's just impossible with this amount of turrets... and I am sure most of people will agree with me on this statement.

[ciabattaroll]

You are absolutely all over the place. Please calm down and collect your thoughts. I answered the other user in regards to their maintenance costs, you chimed in about how there's no need to bother with repairing because they blow up anyway, and are now stuck with "1000s of turrets" (your words, not mine), to which I reined it back towards the maintenance issue by telling you that you now have a sizeable reserve of one of the ingredients required to make heavy turrets should you lose said heavy turrets in conflict. Now you're bouncing off to talking about coverage and living in caves, neither of which are in any way connected to what I was responding to at all.

[Crows]

34 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

I was answering his post in regards to the cost of maintenance for turrets, how slow or quick the turret gets destroyed was something fairly irrelevant to his statement.

Oh, I was referring to the cost to maintain all of those Heavy Turrets bullet-wise, considering that the standard auto turrets will be pretty obsolete, so eventually most established tribes will replace each and every standard turret with a heavy turret and since heavy turrets fire 4 bullets at a time, we'll be constantly on our feet grinding thousands upon thousands of bullets.

Imagine that, filling each one up, 4,800 bullets per turret... 

[Ranger1]

5 minutes ago, Crows said:

Oh, I was referring to the cost to maintain all of those Heavy Turrets bullet-wise, considering that the standard auto turrets will be pretty obsolete, so eventually most established tribes will replace each and every standard turret with a heavy turret and since heavy turrets fire 4 bullets at a time, we'll be constantly on our feet grinding thousands upon thousands of bullets.

Imagine that, filling each one up, 4,800 bullets per turret... 

Which is exactly what it took to fill up 4 regular turrets... which you would have instead if you weren't using 1 Heavy Turret.  I'm not sure I see your point, it's the same as it is now.

[Hawk69]

2 minutes ago, Crows said:

Oh, I was referring to the cost to maintain all of those Heavy Turrets bullet-wise, considering that the standard auto turrets will be pretty obsolete, so eventually most established tribes will replace each and every standard turret with a heavy turret and since heavy turrets fire 4 bullets at a time, we'll be constantly on our feet grinding thousands upon thousands of bullets.

Imagine that, filling each one up, 4,800 bullets per turret... 

Hmm ... I don't see a problem there... before you had 4 turrets with 1200 bullets each... now you have one with 4800 bullets, it's the same amount of bullets before and now, only problem is is if your new turret gets destroyed you lose 4800 ammo... before you would lose only 1200 ammo... but you probably had more of them close to each other, so it's almost the same as before bullets wise... 

[VikingKings1516]

As I could have guessed, zero discussion from the devs about the huge upcry from your official PvP community. Putting out what you are going to do, and not discussing this with people that actually play PvP on official, is detrimental to your entire Official PvP community. Please, actually listen to people who play the game modes that you decide to drastically change. 

Is nobody bringing up the fact that these changes are for performance gains, due to turrets lagging the server. TURRETS LAG THE SERVER WHEN THEY ARE FIRING! What about the other 90% of the time when turrets aren't firing? We will only see performance gains while RAIDING or DEFENDING, while that is a positive note. This has little to no effect on most of the lag. 

I love the game, been playing through all of this since 2015 lol. Done it all: dedicated, single player, official, PvP, PvE, ran a server for over a year. This game has gone to a level of epicness as far as the hours of people's life have put into it. We have stuck through the majority of the issues, while not being listened too. After the SWBF 2 debacle, don't think that not listening to your community is a good thing. Hopefully this will reach one of you, doubtful though.

 

[Crows]

1 minute ago, Ranger1 said:

Which is exactly what it took to fill up 4 regular turrets... which you would have instead if you weren't using 1 Heavy Turret.  I'm not sure I see your point, it's the same as it is now.

 

1 minute ago, Hawk69 said:

Hmm ... I don't see a problem there... before you had 4 turrets with 1200 bullets each... now you have one with 4800 bullets, it's the same amount of bullets before and now, only problem is is if your new turret gets destroyed you lose 4800 ammo... before you would lose only 1200 ammo... but you probably had more of them close to each other, so it's almost the same as before bullets wise... 

The rate of fire (4 bullets per shot) = more farming/bullet making, unlike 4 standard turrets which would only shoot 1 a time which makes them last longer in a raid. At the rate Heavy turrets drain, raids will be over in no time... unless, of course you have players willing to grind bullets all day every day like some sort of Korean MMO grind. 

[SirDropbear]

Increase the turret cap above 100. limit to 1 turret per structure with the exception of giant hatchframes which could hold 2. Add a new version of species x, maybe something like 'species z' boost the damage like the heavy turrets, make stone tier crop plots (stronger), could give them red accents and colouring instead of the purple on species x.

[Hawk69]

3 minutes ago, SirDropbear said:

Increase the turret cap above 100. limit to 1 turret per structure with the exception of giant hatchframes which could hold 2. Add a new version of species x, maybe something like 'species z' boost the damage like the heavy turrets, make stone tier crop plots (stronger), could give them red accents and colouring instead of the purple on species x.

all that and put plants on it's own counter !!

[Ranger1]

15 minutes ago, Crows said:

 

The rate of fire (4 bullets per shot) = more farming/bullet making, unlike 4 standard turrets which would only shoot 1 a time which makes them last longer in a raid. At the rate Heavy turrets drain, raids will be over in no time... unless, of course you have players willing to grind bullets all day every day like some sort of Korean MMO grind. 

Seriously, Crows my friend, it works out to the exact same amount of bullets.

1 Heavy Turret uses the same amount of bullets per second as 4 standard turrets did.

1 Heavy Turret holds the same amount of bullets as 4 standard turrets did.

1 Heavy Turret is capable of the same amount of damage as 4 standard turrets used to. 

End result, everything about the new heavy turret is equal to how four standard turrets used to be.  That includes damage, amount of ammo used, ammo capacity, amount of time it can spend firing.

Your farming time for bullets isn't going to increase using Heavy Turrets instead, the length of time your turrets can fire at raiders isn't going to decrease either.

 

[Crows]

Honestly? Standard turrets need a knock-back effect.

Check this out if you haven't already; 4 Stegos died after pretty much wiping one side of the heavy turrets out, now imagine that but with more players on stegos AND Brontos, etc. There's no chance the heavy turrets will last long because they'll either get destroyed or drained, and yes - you can keep filling each turret up with 4,800 ammo if you're crazy enough, but would they really dish out enough damage to stop a big raid intended on wiping your base? I doubt it...

[Crows]

Just now, Ranger1 said:

Seriously, Crows my friend, it works out to the exact same amount of bullets.

1 Heavy Turret uses the same amount of bullets per second as 4 standard turrets did.

1 Heavy Turret holds the same amount of bullets as 4 standard turrets did.

1 Heavy Turret is capable of the same amount of damage as 4 standard turrets used to. 

End result, everything about the new heavy turret is equal to how for standard turrets used to be.  That includes damage, amount of ammo used, ammo capacity, amount of time it can spend firing.

Your farming time for bullets isn't going to increase using Heavy Turrets instead, the length of time your turrets can fire at raiders isn't going to decrease either.

 

Yeah... it does, I had brainfog.  "2+2 is 4, minus 1, that's 3 QUICK MAFFS!"

[Hawk69]

1 hour ago, Crows said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Honestly? Standard turrets need a knock-back effect.

Check this out if you haven't already; 4 Stegos died after pretty much wiping one side of the heavy turrets out, now imagine that but with more players on stegos AND Brontos, etc. There's no chance the heavy turrets will last long because they'll either get destroyed or drained, and yes - you can keep filling each turret up with 4,800 ammo if you're crazy enough, but would they really dish out enough damage to stop a big raid intended on wiping your base? I doubt it...

To be honest, this video is a bit stupid... only thing it shows is how much dmg can turrets do in that period of time... first of all.. turrets would not be so low to the ground that you can walk up to them and blow them up with one shot... and base would probably have other means to stop raiders from coming close to base, either by spikes, traps, pillars , or by being built on better location like top of pillar or whatever... + if there was couple of plantX there and spikes around the base... they would not even come close... I agree this is not a demonstration of proper raid... big tribe comes at you with lot more than 4 stegos ...

But still same problem remains that is that stupid limit of 100, witch I really hoped they would increase after all the posts and suggestions we gave them, and I still hope they will see the point and that this will not be final number.

[Pallist]

To me, the real problem is they made a significant change and had the perfect opportunity to balance the game yet half assed it and things are the same or worse depending on how big the base it.

The change was for server performance. There was no gain to balance. But it was the perfect time to address it.

 

It's just lazy development.