This is what Wildcard thinks of your disapproval of them ruining your flyers.

[Rickyh24]

I get what the job of a moderator is. They moderate.  I'm just saying that when you go in these threads and see countless post by "recruits" and moderators agreeing with anything and everything that is done in this game it just doesn't come off as the best of looks.  It's like they are trying to convince players to be ok with something they are not ok with. Just accept the options of others and try to use it to better the game. 

 

Its clear to a lot of people at this point that pve pvp need to be treated differently. Hopefully that can happen one day and people that run pve servers along with their player base can enjoy the game again. 

[Ranger1]

2 hours ago, Lewiatan said:

You are comparing Ark to the game that it is way more polished, offers enjoyable combat system, responsive movement controls and a proper AI. It has enemies that you can avoid and defaet by your skills not by just higher statistcs of your character. Traveling and exploring in Horizon Zero Dawn is the best aspect of the game. Everything catches your eyes and you can learn the lore of world by reading messages placed in areas that make sense. Not like in Ark, you have a ruin there out of blue that makes no sense whatsoever and notes that you cannot read, because 2/3 of them are written in latin and chinese! And wiki does not have them translated even. 

Do you know why people loath travel on foot or on dino on The Island? Because within 10 meter radious you can find at least 2 hostile creatures, which will attack you at once. Map is overcrowded with hostile animals that you cannot avoid. It became so irritating that no wonder people skipped that tedious part of the game by using flyers all the time. Dealing with enemy dinosaurs on the ground is not fun. They make you stuck all the time, have ridiculous DPS. Why else do people use flyers all the time? Because Dino AI and pathfinding is just pathetic. It is so annoying to see your dino trying to walk through rock all the time.

Also The Island is not a big map. You can increase the time needed to cross it, but won't change the small size of the map.

Teleporter? Solution to long travels on ARK? It's silly. Amount of effort and breeding to get the engram and them power teleporter up  is not worth it at all. Like entire Tek Tier.

Overall, people do not mind traveling by 20 minutes in Horizon Zero Dawn, because the game offers lots of content you can do while traveling, you can avoid or defeat enemies by your skill and you if you lost, that was your fault, not by unfair creature design like ARK (ie. ridiculous dps, making you stuck). 

 

Lewiatan, I think that Horizon is a great game... and I agree with you that traveling overland and following mechanics could stand some work before release... but you're missing the point of the conversation.  We were discussing travel time, but you've veered into comparing game play while traveling.  

While Horizon is open world in that you go and do things in the order you prefer, it's still a single player game with a storyline that you play through.  How events, encounters, and environmental threats are handled is going to be dramatically different (by necessity) than in a Massively Multiplayer survival game.  The threats are going to be of a more general nature, they have to be.  Think about how short you playing experience would be in that game if 70 people were all there doing the same things, perhaps working together.  It wouldn't be much of a game at that point.

Horizon excels in large part due to it's immersive and specific single player storyline, and I think that's great!  It can pack in specific situational encounters all over the map for a single person to deal with, but that's not the type of game that ARK is.  Horizon give you a clear focus and storyline to draw you from one area/situation to another until you reach it's conclusion, but ARK does not (can not) hold your hand in this fashion.  You must make your own decisions and plans about where you go and why, what your objectives are... and face the consequences of those decisions (in this case, the fact that it takes 1/2 hour to make a spur of the moment trip across the world and back to look for a specific creature).

Again we were simply comparing travel times, and I was pointing out that in the two games Ricky brought up as examples he would turn to because he felt travel time in ARK was too long now, the travel time is actually much longer.

[Rickyh24]

I can fast travel in both games and not lose my inventory. So it's not the same at all really.  This isn't even factoring in that traversing the enviorment on foot or a mount in BOTW does not feel like a complete chore. It's actually a joy. The world looks amazing and I'm not constantly getting stuck on things a thrown back through a time warp. 

[Ranger1]

1 minute ago, Rickyh24 said:

I can fast travel in both games and not lose my inventory. So it's not the same at all really. 

I'm sure you can (although I'm not sure how it works in Breath of the Wild).  You can also do so in ARK, which has already been covered.  This is a survival game, so there is a cost involved.

[Rickyh24]

Just now, ranger1presents said:

I'm sure you can (although I'm not sure how it works in Breath of the Wild).  You can also do so in ARK, which has already been covered.  This is a survival game, so there is a cost involved.

I have no interest in tek tier. I honestly don't even want to fast travel in ark. I  would just like a bird that doesn't have to land every 45 seconds. It's a mechanic that adds nothing positive in regards to pve. 

[Ranger1]

7 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

I get what the job of a moderator is. They moderate.  I'm just saying that when you go in these threads and see countless post by "recruits" and moderators agreeing with anything and everything that is done in this game it just doesn't come off as the best of looks.  It's like they are trying to convince players to be ok with something they are not ok with. Just accept the options of others and try to use it to better the game. 

 

Its clear to a lot of people at this point that pve pvp need to be treated differently. Hopefully that can happen one day and people that run pve servers along with their player base can enjoy the game again. 

Not to put too fine a point in it, but moderators frequently point you when there are things we aren't fully on board with or that need improvement.  In fact I have in this very thread.  Those observations don't seem to draw much notice though, which is fine... it's human nature.

When discussing the base mechanics of the game, in this case travel, they are dealing with mechanics that do NOT need to be dealt with differently between PVP and PVE.  If people think that, they don't understand fully the issues involved that the nerf addressed.

[Ranger1]

3 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

I have no interest in tek tier. I honestly don't even want to fast travel in ark. I  would just like a bird that doesn't have to land every 45 seconds. It's a mechanic that adds nothing positive in regards to pve. 

As I said earlier Ricky, you would do well to tame a bird post nerf (it will have no "wild" points wasted in speed), then consider putting your points in stamina.  You'll quickly find that you won't need to be landing constantly to rest.

Edit:  The need to land and interact with the environment occasionally is very much a positive when it comes to PVE game play.  Arguably it might be even more important there than it is in PVP.

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

1 minute ago, Rickyh24 said:

I have no interest in tek tier. I honestly don't even want to fast travel in ark. I  would just like a bird that doesn't have to land every 45 seconds. It's a mechanic that adds nothing positive in regards to pve. 

That's the point... flyers had too many positives and not enough negatives,  they were unbalanced from many perspectives regardless of whether they were used in pve or pvp.. now flyers have risk to their reward, balance.. this is a SURVIVAL game.. it's obvious WC is trying to increase that feel through more stages of the game.. tame new flyers, put points into stamina, you'll fly slower but you'll stay in air longer,  adapt and survive.. it's fairly simple..

[NebraskARK]

Thanks for this post! Missed that tweet... And found it hilarious 

[Rickyh24]

I mean my house is at hidden lake. I could survive there indefinitely without leaving. Is that their idea of a good time? My house is built, animals spawn their endlessly. I have all the food in the world. I have a thez that gets a crazy amount of flowers from the lake cat tails. I don't need anything outside of hidden lake to survive.  If it's about survival I guess I won. I would prefer to explore though and now I'm being forced to do it on a land mount.  I like land mounts but I'm not gonna be using them 100% of the time. The end result here is my tribe and I playing less because it's boring. 

[Rickyh24]

2 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

That's the point... flyers had too many positives and not enough negatives,  they were unbalanced from many perspectives regardless of whether they were used in pve or pvp.. now flyers have risk to their reward, balance.. this is a SURVIVAL game.. it's obvious WC is trying to increase that feel through more stages of the game.. tame new flyers, put points into stamina, you'll fly slower but you'll stay in air longer,  adapt and survive.. it's fairly simple..

Flyers are supposed to have advantages. Why do you think I hop on an airplane when I go on vacation and not the back of a horse?  

 

I have adapted and I'm surviving. I just explained that in a previous post. 

[Ranger1]

5 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

I mean my house is at hidden lake. I could survive there indefinitely without leaving. Is that their idea of a good time? My house is built, animals spawn their endlessly. I have all the food in the world. I have a thez that gets a crazy amount of flowers from the lake cat tails. I don't need anything outside of hidden lake to survive.  If it's about survival I guess I won. I would prefer to explore though and now I'm being forced to do it on a land mount.  I like land mounts but I'm not gonna be using them 100% of the time. The end result here is my tribe and I playing less because it's boring. 

You're not being forced to do anything, other than make a choice between a set of roughly equal options... which have their own inherent advantages and disadvantages.  Flyers are still invaluable for certain things, as you'll discover once you make a few adjustment in how you train them.

[Quetzal]

2 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

I mean my house is at hidden lake. I could survive there indefinitely without leaving. Is that their idea of a good time? My house is built, animals spawn their endlessly. I have all the food in the world. I have a thez that gets a crazy amount of flowers from the lake cat tails. I don't need anything outside of hidden lake to survive.  If it's about survival I guess I won. I would prefer to explore though and now I'm being forced to do it on a land mount.  I like land mounts but I'm not gonna be using them 100% of the time. The end result here is my tribe and I playing less because it's boring. 

If you want to just take the 'Survival' part of 'Survival Evolved' literally then I guess, yeah sure. But that's not what the game is about and excludes all the caves, bosses, 'Ascension' etc. So yeah, you're choosing to ignore the point of the game in your scenario but if that's what you want to do and you enjoy it then yeah, good on ya

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

3 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

Flyers are supposed to have advantages. Why do you think I hop on an airplane when I go on vacation and not the back of a horse?  

 

I have adapted and I'm surviving. I just explained that in a previous post. 

They still have a huge advantage by STILL BEING ABLE TO FLY, and it's already been stated, tame a flyer post nerf,  it'll have better all around stats and you can pump stamina and not land so much.. just no zipping across map now..

[Rickyh24]

3 minutes ago, Quetzal said:

If you want to just take the 'Survival' part of 'Survival Evolved' literally then I guess, yeah sure. But that's not what the game is about and excludes all the caves, bosses, 'Ascension' etc. So yeah, you're choosing to ignore the point of the game in your scenario but if that's what you want to do and you enjoy it then yeah, good on ya

See the thing is I have no interest in what end game brings to the table. That's another issue though. So a lot of what you just mentioned is irrelevant for me. 

 

I do find the caves fun though actually. 

[Ranger1]

4 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

I have adapted and I'm surviving. I just explained that in a previous post.

And it is specifically this reason as to why I'm taking my time to talk to you.  You strike me as a good player, and a very reasonable person.  Your discussion has been rational and based in the facts as you see them.  Discussing this with you is interesting and likely educational for people on both sides of the debate, and I thank you for the opportunity.

[Quetzal]

3 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

See the thing is I have no interest in what end game brings to the table. That's another issue though. So a lot of what you just mentioned is irrelevant for me. 

That's fine, your choice of course.

What is it you want then? Something like Minecraft with dinosaurs? I'm not trying to be snide/sarcastic/whatever here, it's a genuine question (because the game's clearly been developed with progression/'Ascension' in mind).

[Rickyh24]

1 minute ago, Quetzal said:

That's fine, your choice of course.

What is it you want then? Something like Minecraft with dinosaurs? I'm not trying to be snide/sarcastic/whatever here, it's a genuine question (because the game's clearly been developed with progression/'Ascension' in mind).

Never played minecraft so I'm not sure what this means. My tribe enjoys taming, exploring, cooking, building and cave diving. 

[Ranger1]

9 minutes ago, Quetzal said:

That's fine, your choice of course.

What is it you want then? Something like Minecraft with dinosaurs? I'm not trying to be snide/sarcastic/whatever here, it's a genuine question (because the game's clearly been developed with progression/'Ascension' in mind).

I need to admit something, I'm of a similar mindset to Ricky on this.  Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely nothing against the higher tier game play or boss fights (and I love the concept of some modern day or even high tek equipment being used to survive in a primordial or alien world).

But I play for the setting primarily, and for the fact that the way ARK is set up unexpected and often bizarre things usually happen on a daily basis.  I tend to tell stories in my videos, and ARK generates an endless supply of interesting stories and situations that I couldn't begin to imagine on my own.

I also really enjoy the creativity of the modding community, and the huge amount of entertaining content they bring to the table.  I'm personally not much of a builder, but the modders (especially) give even a ham fisted and architecturally challenged person like me the ability to create some pretty fantastical stuff!

Those things are the main draw for me, all the rest is great... but for me probably best viewed from a safe distance.  

[Quetzal]

Just now, Rickyh24 said:

Never played minecraft so I'm not sure what this means. My tribe enjoys taming, exploring, cooking, building and cave diving. 

I can't think of another comparison - anyway, it's a building/crafting game that has a 'creative' mode where the player can just build stuff without any dangers etc.

The reason I ask is because it seems you (and I say you - you and a lot of others, looking at the amount of YouTube videos on the topic!) want something that the game perhaps isn't meant to be - or isn't yet? Although... it kind of does it with the PvE format! So what is it you want? Further, specific development on the PvE format? Just the option to 'do what you want' to an extent, with a private server? I don't know if any of this is possible and/or even planned btw, I'm just curious as to the response - especially for example if the finished game never becomes anything more with respect to this format.

And I say all this btw as someone who plays on a private PvP server with friends, but 99.9% of the time it's PvE!

4 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

...

The above applies to you too I guess  

[Darkwinter]

52 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

Flyers are supposed to have advantages. Why do you think I hop on an airplane when I go on vacation and not the back of a horse?  

 

I have adapted and I'm surviving. I just explained that in a previous post. 

Now you're saying it like flyers have no advantages anymore  

[Reefarolla]

38 minutes ago, Quetzal said:

Yes, I read it. It seems clear that you either don't understand what he asked for or don't understand the comparison with the Steam figures. Steam figures are viewable - all GP was asking for was the place to see a similar thing for consoles, which it seems from your statement above doesn't actually exist because... the coverage hasn't been written yet. Seems rather simple to me, albeit possibly a misunderstanding.

I'm a console player and I'm not upset. I run a dedicated server and nobody on my server has quit in infantile rage because something changed - so does that make us equal and nullify the views of the two camps? It is, agreed, perfectly reasonable to assume that there'll be similarly unhappy people, yes - just the same as it was on PC and therefore it's just as easy to assume those player counts will return to normal - which GP was pointing to, with his reference to the actual, viewable Steam figures.

I don't care about comparison's to No Man's Sky and to be honest any "reasonable human being" should be equally dismissive for one key reason - that game was shipped as final, retail, completed - done. People were lied to. ARK is absolutely not at that stage and cannot be compared against.

This is laughable all I originally did was give an honest insight into how this has effected my server. Your that intent on defending GP that your completely missing the point why I defended myself. I posted something, did GP process that information and give me a weighted response discussing the entirety of my thread? NO HE DID NOT! Instead he digested it and then picked the part of the thread he thought he could use to totally discredit me and dismiss my post by calling me a troll! I never said I had a single source and when he asked where I got figures from I gave him my honest answer. Did he say no I mean somewhere specific? No he didn't he just called me a troll!The internet may not be the answer he was looking for but its still an answer. When I wanted to see how the game was doing vs new releases in Feb guess what, I found many positive reviews that contained figures showing how strong Ark was vs Neoh and For Honour on PS4 and Xbox. 

 If this game bombs this week there will be plenty of information regarding it, we all know that is true. Will it bomb I don't know but honestly I believe WC will see a significant drop in logons, will they come back if they do go....NOBODY KNOWS? Am I right are you right only time will tell. Is it comparable to No Mans Sky? NO. But if it bombs after dominating all platforms for the best part of 6 months because of one stupid OTT nerf people will take notice! I hope that doesn't happen I really do, but if it does WC's reaction will have to be swift! Console can't mod and as I keep saying players are different to pc!

Lets get this straight I'm not upset and there has been no infantile rage! We all just quit! We are all roughly 35 years old and play this game as much as possible but time is precious! I'm not using that quetzal in its current state, which as I've said before is the end game flyer! This means I'm not playing the game, its that simple. Life goes on I'll play something else, eventually shut down the server give the PS4 to my son and tell the guys to play on another server if they still want to.

Like I said in my initial post I don't mind most of the update, my favorite bird is a Ptera which I think is perfect as it now is. I only think the Argy's speed needs a bit of work maybe somewhere in between the current speed and Tapy or a tad quicker. The Tapy needs the weight reducing slightly so it doesn't undermine the Argy, the Pela is fine. My only complaint is the Quetz that's it! Well maybe the fact that it sounds like i'm now sexually assaulting all my Dino's every time I mount them, but I can live with that! 

The Quetz is the end game flyer, I agree with everything they have done to it bar the speed. I had a Quetz that on Wednesday had the same movement speed as it did after the update 136% or there about. He was more than twice as slow Thursday than he was Wednesday, even though the figure was exactly the same!! I don't care what you say that is not on! A Quetz is massive it should at least be able to fly the speed the Argy is currently at. I had spent the last month building a base with four massive hangers for metal farming with the Quetz carrying the Anklo Straight to the forge or landing the quetz by it. All the metal on our map (The Center) is at the top of hills and cliffs so a flyer is perfect, especially when combining with an Anklo. It  makes the map three dimensional so you don't have to zig zag up and down gradients, that advantage has been nullified with this current speed nerf! This speed is coma inducing, an oil run round the entire map takes over 2 hrs that once took an hr and if its late there's every chance your falling asleep killing yourself! If you can have a Chem station, a cooker and an Industrial forge that pop resources out like toffee's why is it so unreasonable to believe that a flyer that takes so long to acquire should give you an edge when at least farming and improving the grind element so you have time to better use on other activities!

I understand that PVP is the main reason for the nerf but honestly it could of been handled differently, nerf the platform instead of the bird was my example in my initial post! That would also provide two sets of data to analyse for future buffs/nerfs! The Alpha's are now gonna be running through buildings, punching dinosaurs, flying through the air and shooting the crap out of everything with their tek gear anyway, while everyone else has no flyers and no tek gear to make a meaningful defence/escape lol 

That's it my opinion on the nerf in short agree or disagree that's your prerogative but please don't call me a troll and please don't try to change my opinion!

[Lewiatan]

1 hour ago, ranger1presents said:

Lewiatan, I think that Horizon is a great game... and I agree with you that traveling overland and following mechanics could stand some work before release... but you're missing the point of the conversation.  We were discussing travel time, but you've veered into comparing game play while traveling.  

While Horizon is open world in that you go and do things in the order you prefer, it's still a single player game with a storyline that you play through.  How events, encounters, and environmental threats are handled is going to be dramatically different (by necessity) than in a Massively Multiplayer survival game.  The threats are going to be of a more general nature, they have to be.  Think about how short you playing experience would be in that game if 70 people were all there doing the same things, perhaps working together.  It wouldn't be much of a game at that point.

Horizon excels in large part due to it's immersive and specific single player storyline, and I think that's great!  It can pack in specific situational encounters all over the map for a single person to deal with, but that's not the type of game that ARK is.  Horizon give you a clear focus and storyline to draw you from one area/situation to another until you reach it's conclusion, but ARK does not (can not) hold your hand in this fashion.  You must make your own decisions and plans about where you go and why, what your objectives are... and face the consequences of those decisions (in this case, the fact that it takes 1/2 hour to make a spur of the moment trip across the world and back to look for a specific creature).

Again we were simply comparing travel times, and I was pointing out that in the two games Ricky brought up as examples he would turn to because he felt travel time in ARK was too long now, the travel time is actually much longer.

I'm not missing the point of discussion at all. I am aware of it fully. I just explained why people hate using land dinosuars in casual gameplay and as a mean of transport and why they used to use flyers mostly.

 I'll tell you this it is not fun to hold shift+W buttons for 6-8 minutes doing nothing else. If you really wanted to nerf their speed, why do you not add toggle walk or run button with speed nerf patch? It is not rocket science to realise people would find lack of that option quite irritating in long run. It is irritating. If someone posts longer times to travel between point A and point B, keep in mind you have to go to point A, do what you need to do and then go back. Plus, sometimes a lonely Microraptor decides to ruin your day with a pack of Troodons... 

ARK does not have at least the half of polished state of world and map design as Horizon Zero Dawn. To put it bluntly and I apologise for the fallowing phrase, traveling on foot or land dinosaurs on The Island is a clusterf#ck, due to overagressive dinosaurs, terrible AI and their overcrawded population. Developer shouldn't be surprised why people skip mejority of gameplay mechanics or content, because we had been pointing that out for a long time. Too bad they hardly ever reply here on matter that the community brought up. (Yeah, Jat became more active here, because people pointed Wildcard does not use this forum to communicate with players directly almost never. I hope it won't be a fleeting thing.)

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

33 minutes ago, Lewiatan said:

I'm not missing the point of discussion at all. I am aware of it fully. I just explained why people hate using land dinosuars in casual gameplay and as a mean of transport and why they used to use flyers mostly.

 I'll tell you this it is not fun to hold shift+W buttons for 6-8 minutes doing nothing else. If you really wanted to nerf their speed, why do you not add toggle walk or run button with speed nerf patch? It is not rocket science to realise people would find lack of that option quite irritating in long run. It is irritating. If someone posts longer times to travel between point A and point B, keep in mind you have to go to point A, do what you need to do and then go back. Plus, sometimes a lonely Microraptor decides to ruin your day with a pack of Troodons... 

ARK does not have at least the half of polished state of world and map design as Horizon Zero Dawn. To put it bluntly and I apologise for the fallowing phrase, traveling on foot or land dinosaurs on The Island is a clusterf#ck, due to overagressive dinosaurs, terrible AI and their overcrawded population. Developer shouldn't be surprised why people skip mejority of gameplay mechanics or content, because we had been pointing that out for a long time. Too bad they hardly ever reply here on matter that the community brought up. (Yeah, Jat became more active here, because people pointed Wildcard does not use this forum to communicate with players directly almost never. I hope it won't be a fleeting thing.)

Well, horizon is a fully released title.. Can't really compare to an in development game.. and travel by ground isn't a cluster if you know what you are doing and using the tools/tames at your disposal.. island is meant to be an island, not some simple back yard where everything is a hop, skip, and jump away..

[Ranger1]

1 hour ago, Reefarolla said:

The Quetz is the end game flyer

Well no, actually the Wyvern is the end game flyer.  The Quetz is indeed intended as an aerial mount for more advanced players, a slow air bronto with good endurance designed to haul large amounts of cargo safely over rough terrain and ground hazards.

1 hour ago, Reefarolla said:

an oil run round the entire map takes over 2 hrs that once took an hr

I take your point, but consider that this statement highlights one of the main reasons why the nerf (including and especially Quetzals) was necessary (in PVP and in PVE).  

The fact that previously you could take a casual trip around the entire primordial game world gathering resources, in complete safety and without a care in the world, and still return before you finished watching that Firefly re-run was not exactly what the developers had in mind.