[PVE] Wildcard destroys the endgame content on purpose

[Pinchofginger]

I follow the forum pretty regularly although I try not to "spoil" too much as I own the Ark game and the DLC and want to enjoy both when they are finally finished.
I am however a bit worried about all this boss talk and tek tier - I play singleplayer because, well, I have never really liked multiplayer all that much (I am more of an RPG person, I tested the game and spent quite a while just getting to know my triceratops) 

Will I be able to beat such bosses on my own? Or are singleplayers not meant to battle big bosses on their own?

[Wazzamaniac]

1 hour ago, Pinchofginger said:

I follow the forum pretty regularly although I try not to "spoil" too much as I own the Ark game and the DLC and want to enjoy both when they are finally finished.
I am however a bit worried about all this boss talk and tek tier - I play singleplayer because, well, I have never really liked multiplayer all that much (I am more of an RPG person, I tested the game and spent quite a while just getting to know my triceratops) 

Will I be able to beat such bosses on my own? Or are singleplayers not meant to battle big bosses on their own?

Well luckily for you, bosses on singleplayer have 67% reduced stats. So it might be possible.

[Sky.NET]

1 hour ago, Pinchofginger said:

I play singleplayer

If it doesnt fit your needs: adjust it until it does.
We talk about the official servers provided by the devs with the settings that are "the game the way it is indended to be played".
On both SP and private servers you can do what you want, install TCs, Mods, tweak the values, so the topic doesnt really matter for you (lucky guy xD).

[BlackSoul]

9 hours ago, Sky.NET said:

The timer is imho the most stupid thing i have ever seen in any game.
What game of the genres ark is in has a TIMER on the final/semi-final bosses?

The timer is just another concession of WC that they failed to implement a rich-designed endgame.
But may i cite Jeremy Stieglitz or Jesse Rapczak (cant remember who actually said it) from the GDC 2017?

"We could release the Game without TEK Tier and it would make no difference"

I would remove that checkmark at "We can do a great job" and replace it by a cross.
Same with "Community wants it" because from the first iteration until today the community of the official servers really really NOT wants it the way it was implemented/balanced by WC.

And the TEK stuff in general? Well, lets recap:

If i look at the requirements to have/maintain a waterbase i just wanna vomit. A waterbase isnt giving you ANY advantage in this game, not on PVE, not on PVP, on PVE you can also use the underwater caves or just dont have one and play on like you did before, on PVP (tho this thread isnt about PVP at all) it will just get rekt in SECONDS by a couple of dudes with tek rifles. i tried it on my local game, it was actually really cool from the looks etc. and didnt seem to be bugged when i played arround with it. But with the current requirements? For a entirely cosmetic part of content? Really?

The TEK Gen needs 1 Element per hour at a radius that is good enough to build some epic style stuff (that is the whole point of playing PVE for many ppl).
Thats 3 Times broodmother on easy per DAY 0o
Da heck?

The TEK Shield would have been an AWESOME way for high level players to protect their bases from griefing on Scorched Earth, but no, it gets shut down at electrical storms, time to get some golems inside and grief em right? Even if it would not being shut down regulary or you play on center or island, it consumes 10 Element per hour on the largest radius and is still damagable by lured titanos.

All those costs for TEK Items are completely exaggerated compared to the CRAZY amount of work you have to do to get element in amounts you could maintain a full TEK base (or even build it up lol, did you see the costs for tek parts? it would take YEARS of combined effort of a big PVE tribe to replace their base with tek parts xD).

The TEK Suit is completely useless too, it has all those nice features, it should make you a human killer-machine, yes it SHOULD, but it doesnt, its is so crazy costly and the game so crazy loaded with bugs that no one will EVER risk it to go out with a full tek-suit and take 50-100 Element with them to reload empty parts.
And then you encounter a titanoboa, eels, jellys or some troodons and your day is ruined, because a alien.high-tek suit that costs you 10 bossfights per hour to use it isnt able to prevent electrical or poisonous effects of enemies.

There are only 6 TEK Items that are used regulary by the more advanced PVE players i know:

The TEK Transmitter
The Tek Boots (to counter fall dmg from flyers, nothing else)
The 3 different doors
The Tek Sloped Roof (No Element needed to craft, thats the only reason!)

The rest is non-existant for them.

From our experience, 20 rexes can kill medium brood or medium ape without issues. We could've farmed several times per day. The tributes especially for brood are not that heavy.

But I don't understand, how are we supposed to regenerate rexes with the new cooldown? I keep spamming E on cooked meat but after 15 minutes only one rex is half healed.

[Wazzamaniac]

5 hours ago, BlackSoul said:

From our experience, 20 rexes can kill medium brood or medium ape without issues. We could've farmed several times per day. The tributes especially for brood are not that heavy.

But I don't understand, how are we supposed to regenerate rexes with the new cooldown? I keep spamming E on cooked meat but after 15 minutes only one rex is half healed.

Let's hope they implement some sort of veggie cakes for carnivores.

[Sky.NET]

On 16.4.2017 at 7:34 AM, Wazzamaniac said:

Let's hope they implement some sort of veggie cakes for carnivores.

I hope the honey will work like that, maybe in a recipe combined with mutton and prime.

[Wazzamaniac]

6 minutes ago, Sky.NET said:

I hope the honey will work like that, maybe in a recipe combined with mutton and prime.

Oooh yeah, forgot about the giant bee.

In some games I've played, honey is some sort of healing item. Could be worked into something like that.

[Shrekasaurus]

"[PVE] Wildcard destroys the endgame content on purpose"

 

I don't know, this statement sounds pretty false to me... I feel like that would be very poor game design and there would be no PVE players anymore.

 

 

[Voidstar]

@Casanova  hey could you please consider adjusting the difficulty for single player games for arena bosses? ty keep up the good work

Cheers

[Sky.NET]

3 hours ago, Shrekasaurus said:

"[PVE] Wildcard destroys the endgame content on purpose"
I don't know, this statement sounds pretty false to me... I feel like that would be very poor game design and there would be no PVE players anymore.

Yep, please go to any official PVE server and ask how many ppl actually use TEK and get a constant flow of element.
Its barely 1 or 2 tribes per server. Hint: its not because the others lack skill, or the others dont have the prerequitsites to at least try on the bosses.
For more information, read more than just the headline of a 9 pages long thread, and then you will understand what stands behind that short statement that is, taken alone, good for nothing but a headline.

[TR-8R]

Yes , it is quite time consuming to gather the artifact since right now your dino can not carry artifact  .
You can choose to do multi task if you are in big tribe yes , except some caves are particularly dangerous and can't go solo .

And then the boss fighting itself , there are no cheap way out , either risk losing a few rex or spend ton of material making weapon .

You can however choose to fight brood mother easy over and over but the reward is so low that you can't even share the element to the tribe who join the fight .

[Shrekasaurus]

2 hours ago, Sky.NET said:

Yep, please go to any official PVE server and ask how many ppl actually use TEK and get a constant flow of element.
Its barely 1 or 2 tribes per server. Hint: its not because the others lack skill, or the others dont have the prerequitsites to at least try on the bosses.
For more information, read more than just the headline of a 9 pages long thread, and then you will understand what stands behind that short statement that is, taken alone, good for nothing but a headline.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to find the time to kill bosses when you're not worrying about other tribes attacking? 

[Shrekasaurus]

2 hours ago, Sky.NET said:

Yep, please go to any official PVE server and ask how many ppl actually use TEK and get a constant flow of element.
Its barely 1 or 2 tribes per server. Hint: its not because the others lack skill, or the others dont have the prerequitsites to at least try on the bosses.
For more information, read more than just the headline of a 9 pages long thread, and then you will understand what stands behind that short statement that is, taken alone, good for nothing but a headline.

 

Or is it because Tek is mostly PVP gear, like the armour and weapons?

[Shrekasaurus]

2 hours ago, Sky.NET said:

Yep, please go to any official PVE server and ask how many ppl actually use TEK and get a constant flow of element.
Its barely 1 or 2 tribes per server. Hint: its not because the others lack skill, or the others dont have the prerequitsites to at least try on the bosses.
For more information, read more than just the headline of a 9 pages long thread, and then you will understand what stands behind that short statement that is, taken alone, good for nothing but a headline.

 

This was initially a troll post btw But now I'm curious.

[Wazzamaniac]

20 minutes ago, Shrekasaurus said:

This was initially a troll post btw But now I'm curious.

Holy triple post batman!

 

I mean, is it really worth it in PVP either? Like I said earlier in the thread, any noob can bludgeon you with a club and take your armor. The dino saddles are less than half as effective as armor as ascendant regular saddles. The gun has a projectile speed. The buildings and shield I can see being useful. Underwater bases? Not so much. Can't really park your dinos in there. Not many valuable resources in the ocean, not any metal, obsidian etc if you don't consider sea caves. For the cost, might as well block off a pearl cave or something, infinitely cheaper and less angles to be attacked from. Transmitter is nice. You can already teleport with beds, transmitters, drops and obelisks, no fuel needed, no calculated cost for your weight, so teleporter usefulness is debateable unless you live in an aforementioned sea cave. 

It's all really cool but such a waste for the gain. I am also on PVE but it doesn't take much experience to know that people will gravitate towards practicality, which includes cost efficiency. We will see what tek has in store for us in the future.

[Tymokrathi]

None of the TEK content was ready, investing so much effort developing something that is not only fundamentally broken but also pointed at such a small fraction of your player base is stupid, especially considering i can bluescreen continuously simply standing in my base.  

[QuantumReaper]

if its not ready at least make the bosses reasonable, 90% of @Casanova responses seem trollish. maybe pay less artist and pay more programmers to get the game coding working better. the lag the last few days is unreal. and dev responses are pathetic. maybe the devs should try to play their own game without useing admin cheats to spawn everything in. i know on my server the devs didn't farm the shield generator or anything legit ( jen and panda ).

[Vrallox]

On 4/30/2017 at 6:44 PM, QuantumReaper said:

maybe the devs should try to play their own game without useing admin cheats to spawn everything in. i know on my server the devs didn't farm the shield generator or anything legit ( jen and panda ).

Herm. The devs can't play their own game? Sounds like we need a story contest to determine what made them decide to just cheat rather then survive like the rest of us.

 Off the top of my head I'd say they were constantly being massacred by dodos.

[TheMajorPain]

I play PVE simply because I feel it's harder, you have to grind more to maintain (we don't get chem benches etc that produce higher volumes faster with less effort).  This means that I'm constantly having to pay attention to resources to survive.

only thing I see harder is maybe hardcore.  Yes, PVP is difficult and I've played that as well. But the topic at hand is PVE.

so, that said, after 3,100 plus hours on official, mostly PVE, I reached a point where something new was needed (even after the SE DLC) and the only way to do boss battles was NOT on PVE.  A friend started hosting a server and have been playing that as well. 

I must say though, I have found renews fun on PVE recently since I decided to move to another server since the one I have been on since Dec 2015 is SO over populated, cluttered with crap, and has SERIOUS lag issues that make the game pretty much unplayable for me, building a new base has been quite fun!

what I haven't seen in this thread tho, is a direct answer to the question as to the effects these changes are to the positive to the PVE player base?

what are the numbers of PVE ver PVP on official servers during peak playing hours?

i also understand WC not wanting or able to comment on the "Final" end game content at this current time BUT, why can't someone FROM WC comment with direct and precise answers to the questions concerning PVE?

as it sits right now, it does appear that PVE has taken a back seat and in my mind, correct me if I'm wrong, is going down a dead end path as far as the game is concerned (or at least "end game access").  

Looks like ONLY Prim + and PVP are going to be the ones who are able to obtain this.

[Darkblood]

On 4/15/2017 at 1:01 PM, Pinchofginger said:

Will I be able to beat such bosses on my own?

Probably not.

------- skip to TLDR below if you want ----

Well, maybe the Easy versions, but even that is a huge time investment. Think breeding and "getting to know" a lot of Rexes, to the point you will give up on any RP and start to name your rexes with numbers... all suspension of disbelief flying out of the window.

The bright side of it is you can tweak your own "server" (the single player game) to make this a sane endeavor. It is really easy to make a few changes to your game.ini file.

My personal experience on running my own 3-server cluster (Island, Center and Shigo Islands) for a total of almost 30 players, average online simultaneously of 7 players (so most boss fights were done with 4 to 7 players):

The bosses are exactly what the OP described: nuts. No one in their sane minds would invest that much time to get so little, and the experience itself is just dumb, because all you do in boss arenas is find a spot where the boss can be glitched (either stuck in terrain or your dinos) and then click on ir for the next 10 to 20 minutes. Some people call this strategy, I don't. We tried a lot of options (mind you, we can save our server and try again, just as an exercise, I can't imagine going through the same process on an official server) and it always boils down to glitching the boss. Even after they get stuck, you still need to get above some minimum DPS or the time runs out... enter Rex breeding and the requirement for many players (if you are using guns). 

In the end we decided on nerfing the bosses a lot. The spider was nerfed to around 30% to 40% (similar to what you have in singleplayer, which is 33%) and the Easy spider can be done solo. The Medium and the Hard spiders need all 20 Rexes with big damage %, we bred those but I can't imagine doing all that work solo (it is theoretically doable though). The dragon was nerfed to about 10% in order for the Easy to be doable solo. The monkey lies in between. That way it became cost effective TO GET THE ENGRAMS, but we also have a Mod for crafting Element out of Artifacts and Black Pearls so we don't have to rely on boss fights to get fuel.

Important point: it doesn't matter how much you nerf the bosses, their special attacks (firebreath, acid, giant rock) will still do full damage and destroy you if you don't exploit the AI problems anyway.
 

------- TLDR ----

Bottom line: if you imagine getting on the saddle of your best dino, maybe with a few strong companion tames, and go bite some boss buttocks hero style, GIVE UP. The dragon and monkey will one shot kill you no matter what nerf, and the Medium and Hard spiders will kill you on the timer. With much nerfing on the bosses (I would say to the point of 10% - 20%) you will be able to do it by exploiting the flaws in the AI, but even that is a lot of work for almost no rewards.

 

[Currahee]

1 hour ago, TheMajorPain said:

(we don't get chem benches etc that produce higher volumes faster with less effort)

You don't use chem benches simply to make the game harder/grindier?

[SexyBeast]

25 minutes ago, Darkblood said:

Probably not.

------- skip to TLDR below if you want ----

Well, maybe the Easy versions, but even that is a huge time investment. Think breeding and "getting to know" a lot of Rexes, to the point you will give up on any RP and start to name your rexes with numbers... all suspension of disbelief flying out of the window.

The bright side of it is you can tweak your own "server" (the single player game) to make this a sane endeavor. It is really easy to make a few changes to your game.ini file.

My personal experience on running my own 3-server cluster (Island, Center and Shigo Islands) for a total of almost 30 players, average online simultaneously of 7 players (so most boss fights were done with 4 to 7 players):

The bosses are exactly what the OP described: nuts. No one in their sane minds would invest that much time to get so little, and the experience itself is just dumb, because all you do in boss arenas is find a spot where the boss can be glitched (either stuck in terrain or your dinos) and then click on ir for the next 10 to 20 minutes. Some people call this strategy, I don't. We tried a lot of options (mind you, we can save our server and try again, just as an exercise, I can't imagine going through the same process on an official server) and it always boils down to glitching the boss. Even after they get stuck, you still need to get above some minimum DPS or the time runs out... enter Rex breeding and the requirement for many players (if you are using guns). 

In the end we decided on nerfing the bosses a lot. The spider was nerfed to around 30% to 40% (similar to what you have in singleplayer, which is 33%) and the Easy spider can be done solo. The Medium and the Hard spiders need all 20 Rexes with big damage %, we bred those but I can't imagine doing all that work solo (it is theoretically doable though). The dragon was nerfed to about 10% in order for the Easy to be doable solo. The monkey lies in between. That way it became cost effective TO GET THE ENGRAMS, but we also have a Mod for crafting Element out of Artifacts and Black Pearls so we don't have to rely on boss fights to get fuel.

Important point: it doesn't matter how much you nerf the bosses, their special attacks (firebreath, acid, giant rock) will still do full damage and destroy you if you don't exploit the AI problems anyway.
 

------- TLDR ----

Bottom line: if you imagine getting on the saddle of your best dino, maybe with a few strong companion tames, and go bite some boss buttocks hero style, GIVE UP. The dragon and monkey will one shot kill you no matter what nerf, and the Medium and Hard spiders will kill you on the timer. With much nerfing on the bosses (I would say to the point of 10% - 20%) you will be able to do it by exploiting the flaws in the AI, but even that is a lot of work for almost no rewards.

 

I disagree beating bosses alone is going to be a great challenge but the challenge isn't in the arena the challenge is rather trying to obtain all the proper resources to win. So yeah its going to be really hard to obtain like 10 gigas or 50 or whatever but still possible but once you get that giga farm going you just wreck those bosses. I don't know if gigas are what you need or even how many.

[Darkblood]

1 hour ago, SexyBeast said:

I disagree beating bosses alone is going to be a great challenge but the challenge isn't in the arena the challenge is rather trying to obtain all the proper resources to win. So yeah its going to be really hard to obtain like 10 gigas or 50 or whatever but still possible but once you get that giga farm going you just wreck those bosses. I don't know if gigas are what you need or even how many.

You disagree, and yet it is clear that you didn't try to do it yourself or know what you are talking about because:

(1) Gigas cannot be taken into the boss fights, WC put a limitation there (nor can flyers or any dino that has a platform on it, so no brontos, paracers or diplos either). The biggest thing you can take there is a rex.

(2) "10 or 50 or whatever...", the maximum number of dinos that can be taken in is 20, it doesn't matter how many you have. So your best bet is 20 rexes (although some people will prefer Therizinos, or a mix with Turtles)

So, while what you said about the "challenge" (I prefer to call it grind) being before the fight can be true for the EASY level bosses (and maybe all the Spider levels) it is not true for the Hard Dragon and Monkey. You go ahead and take your 20 level 300 rexes against those and tell me what happens.

For those that are curious: those bosses will make ground meat of those 20 rexes, or straight out kill the player in the first attack if he is not very careful. That is why the only way to fight them is to get them stuck somewhere and kill it from a safe distance with an Assault Rifle or Fabricated Pistol. Now, if you are alone (and please notice that my post was answering someone who asked "can it be done solo?")  Assault Rifles won't be able to do enough damage in 20 minutes (unless you have a 500% rifle  ) and when the time runs out you die (all your rexes die too). So, without some tweaking into your game.ini files it is IMPOSSIBLE to kill the bosses at all levels, even if you go through the grind.

[Wazzamaniac]

4 hours ago, TheMajorPain said:

 Looks like ONLY Prim + and PVP are going to be the ones who are able to obtain this.

I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but PVE is easier than PVP because you don't get raided.

Also how would Prim+ players without guns and stuff be able to beat the bosses to get endgame content any easier than PVE?

[TheMajorPain]

6 hours ago, Wazzamaniac said:

I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but PVE is easier than PVP because you don't get raided.

Also how would Prim+ players without guns and stuff be able to beat the bosses to get endgame content any easier than PVE?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when was the last time we saw WC put something in mainly for PVE?  Normally it's for the Prim + and PVP folks, or so it seems.  

Sure, one could say "you get new Dino's" but what good does a pego, yet another berry gather, tek gear/cave, underwater base?  Where does that fit in to PVE?  Horse and unicorn?  May as well be cotton candy as that's all it's really good for truth be told, eye candy and driving up tribe Dino count or I really like this on.....  "Nice Yard Onimant" ;-). Sorry Jat, couldn't resist!

no, PVE doesn't have to worry bout being raided, just some troll kiting a rock gollum, giga, or titan and what ever else they can get to agro on another persons tames.  At least you get turrets and shields to help prevent it ;-)