Why flying making content trivial isn't a bad thing.

[BobRoss]

4 minutes ago, [EG] Comdriver W31 said:

lol. the only part of the basic game where I wasn't on my feet is the dragon arena and two new underwater caves. with enough run speed I can run from one part of the island to another without any dino/gps/compass. naked. me and my friend do that for fun time to time. try to use mind wipe and put all your points on speed and a bit for health (you'll fall off cliffs alot). also we take health drinks/food and sometimes wear red cloth armor. that's the fun. really, try it

and this is good. there shouldn't be only ONE play style.

oh ive tried that allright ^^ ive played on a no tame server before (not the experimental ones) and it was a blast. and indeed their isnt one play style and thats what ive been saying the entire time. right now we're kinda forced into this one flier heavy style and i dont like it, i'd like for other ground/sea styles to be equally viable as the flier style. 

im ok with WC nerfing fliers but i would be equally ok with WC buffing ground and sea tames to get on the same lvl but that would take alot longer i guess seeing as there are way more creatures to adjust that way.

[Teddansen]

It's not like they're going to clip all the wings of the birds. I'm sure you'll still be able to fly 

[JoeBob1024]

22 hours ago, Poltron said:

Flyers trivialize content. You want to travel to meet your friend, fast travel is there for you. The game is about survival, with every new additions, it is harder to survive, on your feet that is. Bring a low level ptera and you can bypass all those hot spots and even glitch most dinos and kill them effortlessly.

Ptera barrel roll and speed needs a nerf. A whole month of defense can be negated with 2 ptera with over 200% movement speed, even worse on Prim +, with bolas not working and only plant x available.

Those guys should be player killers, but not the dino killer they are now. We kill all of Carno island in minutes with ptera, and farm more meat faster than with land dino.

I want to see more paracer/bronto/rex sieging other, and having to move there slowly, not bringing a gigano on a quetz in minutes and destroying everything. It would be better for the game as a whole. 

Flyers wont be removed from the game either, I just hope they tone down the dps and speed some of them provide. Argy is in a good spot, it shouldnt be affected that much. Let's wait and see.

Gigas aren't supposed to go on quetz saddles... I think they could just fix this by making them enrage when they're taken over a certain distance from the ground lol

[Currahee]

It's not like there's loot in the sky to grab, you've got to land to do anything in the game. It's just a way to get from  A->B without a grind involved.

 

From everything I've read evolution took to the air to escape predators.

Flying is survival evolved.

[akamurk]

4 hours ago, Renard said:

The problem in that case is that even on PvP servers, flying tames trivialize the PvE aspect of the game the most. That's why the nerf (hopefully) is going to affect the PvE aspect of the game greatly and no it's not mainly a PvP fix. PvE is too easy with flyers, period. This does have an effect on PvP but it's marginal.

Why adding metal spawns with interesting content in between when players just ignore it and fly back and forth to the mountains?

Because we earned it, we got to this point by grinding. We didn't just spawn with birds. 

PVE should be easy if you made it that point. 

Mining metal should be easy its already a huge grind, mix that with the chance of dying, losing a beast quetz and anky is stupid asf. 

If I'm breeding and need to do a meat run that ALL I need to do, I don't need or want to be CHALLENGED during my meat run. I have earned that. New layers will still have a hard time doing meat runs and what not but at some point of grinding and advancing we deserve to be op, if we want a challenge that's what boss fights and solo taming giga's is for.;

 

I die enough to being fkn dc'd in the middle of flight or a fight to NEED anymore challenge, fix your shizz game and then you can add some "challenge"...

[JoeBob1024]

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this....but why not add like an aerial equivalent of jellyfish/titanboas/troodons?  I don't mean that they'd have torpor/shock. I just mean, why not add an un-tameable strong predator that spanwns/stays in the skies and makes them more dangerous?

[Gilgamesh908]

36 minutes ago, JoeBob1024 said:

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this....but why not add like an aerial equivalent of jellyfish/titanboas/troodons?  I don't mean that they'd have torpor/shock. I just mean, why not add an un-tameable strong predator that spanwns/stays in the skies and makes them more dangerous?

Because whatever it is will likely still attack ground mounts as well (much like flying ants).  Also doesn't really solve the core issues of why flyers need to be looked at

[Myst]

The bola..,the grappling hook. Should be taken out Yes, or No???

i play in a 3-4 man tribe-PVE official. P+

This is just one example of a server we are playing on.

We have to compete for mats, and Dino's constantly. To the point of no Dino's to tame...because one of the many, big tribe rides up, and eats everything in site, to feed the huge army of Dino's they have built up.

Then you have the tribe, that pulls out the ankys, and doeds, and clean out all the area around us.

If we want stuff, we get on the raft, and travel further, and further away.

Herbi Island is packed full, and never anything in site for us to gather. So metal and crystal is up on the mountain, and if we are lucky, we might hit the obsidian.

Every server is different, you get the good, and bad.

We built a small base in the snow biome, and a small base in the red OB area, near the swamp, and redwoods...because that was the only spots available that wasn't pillared, of owned by the bigger tribes.

We get rekt a lot in the snow biome, and loose lots of battles because of nasty players that kite stuff to your base, or aggro Dino's to your tames...all part of the game???  The area is hard enough, without all the griefing.

Then the clipping, and the spawning issues, or the servers just kicking you....

The environment is broken, and right now, the flyers, help.

Take out the bola when it comes to the Pteras, take out the barrel roll..

Something that I have found somewhat bothersome, and I think should be looked at is...

your bird, your tame, your saddle...new people come on, or in to a tribe and have all the luxuries. They never did any work to get it tho, just handed to them on a silver platter.

I think you should have to unlock the engrams, and have the levels to get the prize. Not on this game...join the tribe...here is alol the high level gear, go play.

That is just my thought tho.

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeBob1024]

13 minutes ago, Myst said:

The bola..,the grappling hook. Should be taken out Yes, or No???

i play in a 3-4 man tribe-PVE official. P+

This is just one example of a server we are playing on.

We have to compete for mats, and Dino's constantly. To the point of no Dino's to tame...because one of the many, big tribe rides up, and eats everything in site, to feed the huge army of Dino's they have built up.

Then you have the tribe, that pulls out the ankys, and doeds, and clean out all the area around us.

If we want stuff, we get on the raft, and travel further, and further away.

Herbi Island is packed full, and never anything in site for us to gather. So metal and crystal is up on the mountain, and if we are lucky, we might hit the obsidian.

Every server is different, you get the good, and bad.

We built a small base in the snow biome, and a small base in the red OB area, near the swamp, and redwoods...because that was the only spots available that wasn't pillared, of owned by the bigger tribes.

We get rekt a lot in the snow biome, and loose lots of battles because of nasty players that kite stuff to your base, or aggro Dino's to your tames...all part of the game???  The area is hard enough, without all the griefing.

Then the clipping, and the spawning issues, or the servers just kicking you....

The environment is broken, and right now, the flyers, help.

Take out the bola when it comes to the Pteras, take out the barrel roll..

Something that I have found somewhat bothersome, and I think should be looked at is...

your bird, your tame, your saddle...new people come on, or in to a tribe and have all the luxuries. They never did any work to get it tho, just handed to them on a silver platter.

I think you should have to unlock the engrams, and have the levels to get the prize. Not on this game...join the tribe...here is alol the high level gear, go play.

That is just my thought tho.

 

 

 

 

 

I feel like this should have been it's own post... Seems a little off topic.

[JoeBob1024]

17 minutes ago, Gilgamesh908 said:

Because whatever it is will likely still attack ground mounts as well (much like flying ants).  Also doesn't really solve the core issues of why flyers need to be looked at

If the core issue is that they remove the dangers inherent to a survival game wouldn't that fix it somewhat? As for attacking ground dinos, could you make them like a reverse bassilosaur? They take dmg at low elevations or when too close to the ground?

[warcryr]

I took a 6 month break from ARK, and picked it back up a couple weeks ago.

So many new dinos! And so many new threats.  The Island was finally exciting and dangerous again!  I discovered the Purlovia and Thycleo the hard way, by getting AMBUSHED from out of no where!  This was going to be a great adventure trying to figure out how to hunt those creatures down and get them tamed.

 

Then I got a Quetzal, and the game turned back into drop-in taming pens and Farmville easy street...   not cool

But some of you are correct, that a lot of players are going brain dead and don't like a challenge.  I can accept that.

[OnePotatoChip]

36 minutes ago, warcryr said:

I took a 6 month break from ARK, and picked it back up a couple weeks ago.

So many new dinos! And so many new threats.  The Island was finally exciting and dangerous again!  I discovered the Purlovia and Thycleo the hard way, by getting AMBUSHED from out of no where!  This was going to be a great adventure trying to figure out how to hunt those creatures down and get them tamed.

 

Then I got a Quetzal, and the game turned back into drop-in taming pens and Farmville easy street...   not cool

But some of you are correct, that a lot of players are going brain dead and don't like a challenge.  I can accept that.

Thank you. I suppose some are gonna say that you didn't have to tame that Quetzal, but, when you have to set so many restrictions on yourself just to feel challenged again, you know something's up. 

I've never liked things to be easy for me in games. Being at the top, untouchable, is the worst feeling in the world. 'What now?' I remember browsing on tvtropes a while ago and came across this trope called 'It's Easy, so it Sucks'. Man, do I get it now more than ever. 

[skeeta]

7 hours ago, BobRoss said:

i love hearing PVE players discuss this matter, they deliberately choose a mode that literally sais VERSUS ENVIRONMENT and when a change is to be implemented that could POTENTIALLY up the difficulty of the environment aspect of the game they all lose their minds. 

look at it this way people you will get to play against the environment even MORE, isnt that great? you get an even better PVE experience

To be honest, the reason I chose PvE is so that I don't have to build a huge, fully enclosed monster of a base with all my dino's inside. My new place has a 12 story (3 floor) stone built octagonal main building with an aviary in the top level and a 50 plot 300% greenhouse on the top. There's an external crafting area in the paddock and I'm building a cooking area at the moment that's going to be pretty to look at with decking and a thatched roof. All the dino's are kept out in the paddock and I just leave a couple on neutral to deal with any Argies that drop in for a snack. I have big plans for the place. Plans that would be ridiculous in a PvP environment. I've already had a couple of players drop in and comment on how nice the place looks. I like that.

To me the birds are just tools I can use to make this aspect of the game easier. If I need to farm meat I use a Rex. If I need pelt I use a Sabertooth or a Wolf. The birds aren't a one stop shop to me. They serve very specific purposes. Yes, they take the danger out of long distance travel but so what? I've earned that right by the toll of a hundred deaths and by the fact that my main advantages (as a human) are intelligence and adaptability. 

It's no different to going hunting on a 250 Rex (I'd say Giga but I accept they're a pain to tame). You go out on one of those and you're pretty much untouchable. Should I use a Carno or some other lesser creature just to increase the challenge or even not bother and do it on foot?

[Argleksander]

20 hours ago, iAmE said:

You are being partial, because you aren't being objective.

The objective reason Flyers are the most popular mode of transportation, is because they are the fastest. Not the safest. That is what Wildcard has deemed an issue. Not "Safety". They said it invalidates most of the Ark "Experience", Ark's experience isn't about danger. Once you have a decently fast Raptor, or a 60+ Rex, there is almost 0 danger in the hands of someone with eyes. 

Not the safest? Are you kidding me? During my entire time in ARK i have lost three (3!) birds to wildlife, two because of stupidity on my part and one sacrificed himself to save me from wolves (RIP Frank). There are literally no threats in the air, which makes air travel infinitely more safe than ground travel. You could argue that stomping around on a 250 rex is just as safe, but even then you can risk running into an alpha or a wild giga (i've had a 215 Theri killed by a giga)

If it isn't about danger, what is it then? Once a game becomes too easy it also quickly becomes stale and boring. 

[JoeBob1024]

1 hour ago, skeeta said:

To be honest, the reason I chose PvE is so that I don't have to build a huge, fully enclosed monster of a base with all my dino's inside. My new place has a 12 story (3 floor) stone built octagonal main building with an aviary in the top level and a 50 plot 300% greenhouse on the top. There's an external crafting area in the paddock and I'm building a cooking area at the moment that's going to be pretty to look at with decking and a thatched roof. All the dino's are kept out in the paddock and I just leave a couple on neutral to deal with any Argies that drop in for a snack. I have big plans for the place. Plans that would be ridiculous in a PvP environment. I've already had a couple of players drop in and comment on how nice the place looks. I like that.

To me the birds are just tools I can use to make this aspect of the game easier. If I need to farm meat I use a Rex. If I need pelt I use a Sabertooth or a Wolf. The birds aren't a one stop shop to me. They serve very specific purposes. Yes, they take the danger out of long distance travel but so what? I've earned that right by the toll of a hundred deaths and by the fact that my main advantages (as a human) are intelligence and adaptability. 

It's no different to going hunting on a 250 Rex (I'd say Giga but I accept they're a pain to tame). You go out on one of those and you're pretty much untouchable. Should I use a Carno or some other lesser creature just to increase the challenge or even not bother and do it on foot?

I think, based on people's responses that the opinions on this issue are strongly affected by where people live on the map.  I'm not sure which map you're on, but if it's the island I'm going to assume that you live inland somewhere or on a mountain.  When we had a base on obsidian mountain I used a rex for meat farming on a regular basis.  Now that we live out on the 'bergs we have to rely heavily on flyers to do everything but raiding and bosses.  I'm sure that the same applies to people who live on the southern beaches really far from the valuable resources.  I understand that distance from resources is a major component of the game, and that it shouldn't be easy for people to get to every resource easily.  But I also think that this applies more to people who live on the mainland in resource-poor areas.  However, until they add a faster/less buggy form of water transport, nerfing the quetzals non-combat abilities will have a disproportionatly negative effect on people who live on the small surrounding islands.

[iAmE]

1 hour ago, Argleksander said:

Not the safest? Are you kidding me? During my entire time in ARK i have lost three (3!) birds to wildlife, two because of stupidity on my part and one sacrificed himself to save me from wolves (RIP Frank). There are literally no threats in the air, which makes air travel infinitely more safe than ground travel. You could argue that stomping around on a 250 rex is just as safe, but even then you can risk running into an alpha or a wild giga (i've had a 215 Theri killed by a giga)

If it isn't about danger, what is it then? Once a game becomes too easy it also quickly becomes stale and boring. 

There is no "Safest" option. At all. You add the human factor and literally any mount in the game, and you can get from point A to point B. You aren't going to die either way in either scenario assuming you have eyeballs and something between your ears. The only difference is time spent travelling. 

I'm *all for adding challenge* but arbitrarily increasing the time it takes to farm and travel does nothing to add difficulty. At all. The only difference pre and post patch, assuming they attack how easy it is to travel, is that it takes 10 minutes to run somewhere, when it would have taken 5 minutes to fly there. No. Other. Difference.

People seem to be under the illusion that "Safest" matters. It doesn't. The reality is, past a certain threshold (You know, where you don't die, which is basically a mounted creature), safety becomes irrelevant. It's like saying "I do more damage then you!", but both of you do enough damage to kill the target. Sure. You do more damage, but the end result is the same. Every. Time. 

The Ark Experience isn't about danger. The Ark Experience is what you *make* it. This is a *sandbox* survival sim. Not an MMO. Not an RTS. This is a game about providing players with endless choices, and allowing them to make those choices.

 

11 hours ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

Mine easily exists..

Ah. No it doesn't, and until you actually present Logic that makes the point exist, it won't. You claiming it does, doesn't make it so. 

11 hours ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

you're evading spawns, other players,  bases, etc etc.. flying is super easy thoughtless mode

 

So is travelling with literally any ground mount faster then a Phiomia. What's the point? Sure, Flying is safer, but in both scenarios the outcome is almost always exactly the same assuming you have eyeballs and a brain.

11 hours ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

You gain so much more imersion through the ground aspect.

That is *your* opinion. Not mine. My immersion in the game doesn't come from running a carno around the island killing mid level irrelevant dinos for no reason. Personally, my immersion comes from building, and raiding, buildings. Welcome to a survival sandbox game. Where your experience and immersion is different then mine, and that is the entire purpose of the game.

 

11 hours ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

I hear ppl being like they won't log in at times because things would take too long,  congratulations ppl, ark is a time consuming game, the more they add the more it will be so, get used to it..

You don't understand game design then. At all. I'll break it down for you;

There is "Fun" content. Content that is difficult. This content, even if it is time consuming, is good content.

There is "Artificial" content. Content that is not difficult. This content, whether time consuming, or not, is bad content.

Arbitrarily increasing travel (And farming) time in the game, which is what many people are suggesting by wanting to eliminate Flyers, is artificial. It is content that is not challenging, engaging, difficult or fun. It is just an arbitrary tedium intended to do nothing but sink time. 
 

People will play and enjoy time consuming games, but those games have to have a dopamine inducer. Something "Fun" about them and the "Fun" has to outweigh the "Tedious time consuming activities" for "More" players then not. All games are time sinks, they also should be fun to their respective audience.  

[skeeta]

43 minutes ago, JoeBob1024 said:

I think, based on people's responses that the opinions on this issue are strongly affected by where people live on the map.  I'm not sure which map you're on, but if it's the island I'm going to assume that you live inland somewhere or on a mountain.  When we had a base on obsidian mountain I used a rex for meat farming on a regular basis.  Now that we live out on the 'bergs we have to rely heavily on flyers to do everything but raiding and bosses.  I'm sure that the same applies to people who live on the southern beaches really far from the valuable resources.  I understand that distance from resources is a major component of the game, and that it shouldn't be easy for people to get to every resource easily.  But I also think that this applies more to people who live on the mainland in resource-poor areas.  However, until they add a faster/less buggy form of water transport, nerfing the quetzals non-combat abilities will have a disproportionatly negative effect on people who live on the small surrounding islands.

I've just moved up near the snow biome but my first base was at the red obs (Island map). I have always used my Rex for meat though. Even down there. Just going from my base up the river beach a few hundred yards and back down the other bank used to give me enough and on a good trip would encumber the poor girl lol.

My point though was that I don't see the need to nerf the fliers too much. The Ptera could do with it's spin attack calming down yeah but that wouldn't bother me in the slightest because I have better critters for doing what that does. It's speed is irrelevant and altering that will only have the effect of making journeys take longer. I won't stop travelling long distances on it just because it takes 10 minutes now instead of 5.

I can't think of a reason to use the birds for anything but taxis and carrying things a long way. I can't comment on Quetz's as I've never had one but doing mining runs with a Ptera or Argent is safer sure but you pay for that with the shear amount of runs you have to do vs a single ground based mining train. It's a trade off in the end. I could escort an Ank and a Doed into the mountains with 2 Paras and 2 Trikes and bring back a weeks worth of stuff but it would be dangerous. Or I can do a couple of trips per day with a bird. The choice is mine now but that choice would go if they nerf the birds too heavily.

[PuffyPony]

Quote

So is travelling with literally any ground mount faster then a Phiomia. What's the point? Sure, Flying is safer, but in both scenarios the outcome is almost always exactly the same assuming you have eyeballs and a brain.

I would not say that the Swamps are safe for most medium-sized land mounts, and the Redwoods are dangerous even for players on anything short of a Giga. The addition of creatures like the Kapro, Thylacoleo, Purlovia, and Microraptor make land-riding dangerous. Even stuff like the Theri can bypass your mount, now, though I wouldn't consider them a major threat unless you're on foot or on something thoroughly-mid-tier.

Flying is far safer on a much more consistent basis. Flyers are also generally faster (the slowest rideable ones have a speed around 1100 while Sprint flying, and the Ptera hits nearly 1900, which ONLY the Galli exceeds), and for creatures like the Quetz and Tape, you never need to actually land on the ground except to hop on and hop off. Not to mention that the Ptera can be so ridiculously fast that Stamina is never an issue, and even when it is, a few points here and there greatly improve your travelling distance. Have I even mentioned that the Argy and Quetz mean you can avoid mountain threats like Rex, Allo, Alphas, and Gigas when going on a metal run? Flying means you bypass all the stuff on the ground, and even a fast land-mount won't do it nearly as well (you still have to face fall damage, enemy bases, etc).

I think a flyer nerf is a good thing. A ground creature buff might not be such a terrible idea either, but we'll wait to see on that.

[iAmE]

2 minutes ago, PuffyPony said:

I think a flyer nerf is a good thing. A ground creature buff might not be such a terrible idea either, but we'll wait to see on that.

I don't disagree that a flyer nerf is a good thing. I simply have serious issues with people crying about everything and throwing this "Challenge" thing around. It's not challenging. The only thing Flyers trivialize is the tedious nature of ground transportation. As I said before, it takes me 10 minutes to run somewhere, or five minutes to fly there. The end result is always, 100%, going to be the same. The only difference is with the flyers I have done so faster. I see no reason to make the game, arbitrarily, for no real reason, grindier. It's already one of the grindiest and most time consuming games on the market by a long shot. Particularly in survival sims. 

[PuffyPony]

4 minutes ago, iAmE said:

I don't disagree that a flyer nerf is a good thing. I simply have serious issues with people crying about everything and throwing this "Challenge" thing around. It's not challenging. The only thing Flyers trivialize is the tedious nature of ground transportation. As I said before, it takes me 10 minutes to run somewhere, or five minutes to fly there. The end result is always, 100%, going to be the same. The only difference is with the flyers I have done so faster. I see no reason to make the game, arbitrarily, for no real reason, grindier. It's already one of the grindiest and most time consuming games on the market by a long shot. Particularly in survival sims. 

See, I don't think the result is 100% going to be the same. ARK happens, but it happens a lot less when you fly. That's what I, and I think a lot of the others, are saying. Land transport is yes, slower, and because of the way ARK currently is you'll generally be safe. But not always, and it's those critical moments that really cut the difference between land and air travel (we're not even going to talk about the bear that is water travel). If your concern is grind, then I think the appropriate response is to address crafting and costs in the game, as well as the corresponding buff to land dinos (particularly weight bearers). The biggest problem with grind in ARK in my opinion is that it is so easily undone. You can put in hours making a nice stone base, only for some dingbat with a tiny wooden hut and a rocket launcher to come along and obliterate it with only a couple hours of work. Grind is okay, but it needs to be matched by a sense of permanency that ARK lacks.

[iAmE]

1 minute ago, PuffyPony said:

See, I don't think the result is 100% going to be the same. ARK happens, but it happens a lot less when you fly. That's what I, and I think a lot of the others, are saying. Land transport is yes, slower, and because of the way ARK currently is you'll generally be safe. But not always, and it's those critical moments that really cut the difference between land and air travel (we're not even going to talk about the bear that is water travel). If your concern is grind, then I think the appropriate response is to address crafting and costs in the game, as well as the corresponding buff to land dinos (particularly weight bearers). The biggest problem with grind in ARK in my opinion is that it is so easily undone. You can put in hours making a nice stone base, only for some dingbat with a tiny wooden hut and a rocket launcher to come along and obliterate it with only a couple hours of work. Grind is okay, but it needs to be matched by a sense of permanency that ARK lacks.

I've never had anything "ARK" Happen to me on the ground going from place to place. As a PvP player, I travel, probably, a lot more by ground then most PvE players. The only thing that has ever bothered me moving on the ground is a Wild Giga, and three of our brontos killed the last level 45 one that attacked me while moving them across the island without any of them getting bloody. Even then, I could have avoided getting near the Giga (I saw it from quite a ways off, because you know, it's kind of huge), I knew it was there, I knew I was in an area where they spawn. 

It was never a challenge. It was never anything. The only time "ARK" has ever happened had nothing to do with air or land. I just dced and my mount died because of Ark afterwards. Which is still liable to happen (Actually less liable to happen to ground mounts then air mounts, because air mounts fly a football field away when they land and sometimes can never be found). 

 

The grind in ark is bad, the lack of permanency is bad, both combined for the horrible experience that is official PvP, I will admit that, but the grind, alone, is absolutely atrocious. In any respect. By any comparison. I can spend two to three weeks grinding to PvP for six hours on official. I really can, and have, and will do so again. That is by far and away the largest pvp turn around of any survival sim I have ever played. 

 

My only point being, I think nerfing Flyers at this junction, is a bad call. It's nothing more then an arbitrary increase in time spent travelling(Which most people do with Macros anyways) for no real gain. 

[vanyelxp5]

Most of the game is trivial once you get top tier dinos. Flyers just make it trivial and faster.

 

While you do have land tames that are faster, they still have to travel around stuff, while flyers can... well, fly.

 

I run with brontos a lot. I've got one that hits as hard as a Giga right now, so I'm not really sweating most wild dinos. It's not quick, but since I don't really leave my island much, there's really nothing that spawns near me that's a threat. MAYBE an Alpha rex would be dangerous, but that's about it. Normal rexes would be the next worst threat... and honestly? Maybe if there were 20 max level wilds that put all of their points in health and melee I'd be in trouble... but even that, I think Kane could take them because bronto AOE is amazing.

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

3 hours ago, iAmE said:

I've never had anything "ARK" Happen to me on the ground going from place to place. As a PvP player, I travel, probably, a lot more by ground then most PvE players. The only thing that has ever bothered me moving on the ground is a Wild Giga, and three of our brontos killed the last level 45 one that attacked me while moving them across the island without any of them getting bloody. Even then, I could have avoided getting near the Giga (I saw it from quite a ways off, because you know, it's kind of huge), I knew it was there, I knew I was in an area where they spawn. 

It was never a challenge. It was never anything. The only time "ARK" has ever happened had nothing to do with air or land. I just dced and my mount died because of Ark afterwards. Which is still liable to happen (Actually less liable to happen to ground mounts then air mounts, because air mounts fly a football field away when they land and sometimes can never be found). 

 

The grind in ark is bad, the lack of permanency is bad, both combined for the horrible experience that is official PvP, I will admit that, but the grind, alone, is absolutely atrocious. In any respect. By any comparison. I can spend two to three weeks grinding to PvP for six hours on official. I really can, and have, and will do so again. That is by far and away the largest pvp turn around of any survival sim I have ever played. 

 

My only point being, I think nerfing Flyers at this junction, is a bad call. It's nothing more then an arbitrary increase in time spent travelling(Which most people do with Macros anyways) for no real gain. 

I get it now,  you're one of those strictly pvp players that doesn't like the pvpve aspect, hence you really don't immerse yourself in ark, just fighting against others. Immersion is the whole experience, not just one plucked aspect that you enjoy. And the flyer nerf isn't arbitrary.. flyers negate, pretty much if not all other tames, especially in pvp scenarios. That's horrible design and horrible balance. Ive said before, ark is kinda like a glorified, first person rts, you can't just have one type of unit that does everything.. 

[iAmE]

9 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

I get it now,  you're one of those strictly pvp players that doesn't like the pvpve aspect, hence you really don't immerse yourself in ark

Wrong again. I immerse myself in Ark. Just differently then you do. Hard to imagine how that works, but it's a key part of any sandbox game. I welcome you to google "Sandbox", but I play PvE servers, and PvP. Official, and unofficial. I enjoy the entirety ark has to offer, as opposed to people who enjoy one specific thing. I told you what my, specific, poison is. 

 

3y said:

 Immersion is the whole experience, not just one plucked aspect that you enjoy. 

Indeed, Immersion is the entire experience. However as I explained, your experience, differs from mine, because our goals are patently different. Your goal is to kill irrelevant things from the back of your favorite tame while running around the island. Mine is building and raiding buildings. Hence our immersion, and experiences, will naturally differ. You consider killing random dinos for no reason but "Fun" to be fun. I don't. I consider building buildings fun. You don't. 

3y said:

And the flyer nerf isn't arbitrary.. flyers negate, pretty much if not all other tames, 

No. They don't. They get you from point A to point B fastest. That is the only thing they are best at. The reason people use them to get meat, farm, etc, is because the map IS SO BIG, and so hard to transverse via the ground that it's faster to kill an alpha rex with a Ptera over the course of an hour, then it is to walk your level 300 giga to that rex. Not to mention how much faster it is to find said Alpha Rex with a bird as compared to a land dino. 

3y said:

especially in pvp scenarios. 

Except, you know, Rexes, Gigas, Turtles, Brontos, Paracers, Diplos, Water Dinos at large. That being said, Flying Dinos don't need a stat nerf in PvP. All they needed to do was address the picking mechanic. Which they can do by nerfing weight I guess, but since the devs went out of their way to say that the nerf was because of PvE, I'm pretty sure the intent is a PvE nerf to flyers. Not PvP.

3y said:

That's horrible design and horrible balance. 

Yep. It is, and you know what got us here?

That's right, the devs nerfing every other dino in the game into the ground. So yes. Nerfing the best thing, whatever it is at the moment, is always bad design. This is another example of it.

3y said:

 Ive said before, ark is kinda like a glorified, first person rts, you can't just have one type of unit that does everything.. 

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Despite everyone saying that birds are the best at everything, they aren't. They really aren't. Ptera's aren't the best at meat farming. They aren't the best at farming Hide. They aren't the best at killing Alphas. They aren't the best at farming anything alone. Period. 

The issue here is that ground dinos take so long travelling, are so slow that using them isn't efficient. That isn't the birds problem at all. That's the problem of the developers cutting most land Dino's damage/stamina/speed scaling by 60-80%. 

[chrisnt64]

On ‎29‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:42 AM, Lumitesi said:

So it is finally upon us. The flying nerf will come. No numbers have been announced yet but I fear for it. Supposedly in the dev's eyes, flyers make content trivial because you can avoid everything on the ground. I agree. What I don't agree is that it is a bad thing. Let me tell you why: 

First of all:

Most Land mounts already trivialize most content. I mean, hop on a parasaur (considered by most the most useless Mount in the game) and with a few points in speed you can outrun a Rex. Let alone something fast like a saber or a carno. By making us use ground mounts the only content you're really making us face is bad terrain geometry/design together with a really bad following mechanic that males ground caravans not viable.

Second: 

Sometimes players WANT to trivialize some of the content. Sometimes I just wanna visit a friend's base on the other side of the Island. And I really don't wanna spend 30m just in the travels. It makes no sense. Everything is very time consuming in this game, you don't need to add travelling to that list.

Third:

Forcing players to do content is NOT a good idea. I mean, currently we have the option to use land or flying mounts. We choose flying most of the time we have to do long travels. It's much more convenient. If you force me to use land mounts, my decision may just end up being "nah that will take too much time by land, I'll just log and go do something else." Why is that? When I have lots of time to play, sometimes I hop on my Giga and go to snow biome, kill stuff and look for high lvl wolves, rexes, rhinos. It takes me about 1h just travelling back and forth but I got the time and it's fun so I do it. Other times I only have about 2h so I hop on my Tape and go look for said animais. Given that the Tape is much faster I have a much higher probability to find one on time and tame it. If this option is taken away from me, most of the times this happens I will probably log out and go do something else because I just wont have time. So in order to untrivialize 80% of the content, you actually made 100% of it useless. 

Forth:

You already make me face your ground content way too much. This one is router in another flawed system, which is breeding. Anyone breeding carnivores knows that if you breed more than 3 at a time, most of your ingame time is spent out and about gathering meat for the babies. After spinning at least 2h a Day running around killing things and gathering meat, is it really a bad thing that I'm allowed to ignore these ground dinos when visiting friends? 

Fifth and to me, the most important of all:

You can fix this by adding sky threats, instead of nerfing things to the ground (heh). Add,  for example, a giant eagle that is all around the Island and hunts flying dinos. Or maybe alpha Argies. Or maybe weather effects that affect flying mounts. Adding depth to sky gameplay (as long as it isn't overly complicated) is a much better solution than straight up nerfing dinos.

I know that it is probably too late, and I'm speaking before I even know what the nerfs are, but I still wanted to leave my opinion here on why the flyer nerfs will probably be negative for the game and how there are better solutions.

TL,DR:

Some flyers do need nerfs. Ptera is too fast and barrel roll does too much damage for example, but overall I think a huge flying nerf would be negative for the game and it isn't a bad thing that flyers currently allow content to be trivial. 

Nerfing flying dinos isn'lt necessarily a bad, it will give players more incentive to use their ground dinos more.

Eg: rather than taking out your ptera to collect meat you could take a rex or a pack of allos.

But as you say Ark is one of the most time consuming games out there, if not the most time consuming. And making us have to spend lots of time traveling will just impair the game rather than advancing it. Sky threats are a great idea, imagine having thunder storms and maybe being able to be struck by lightning. Alpha air dinos would be epic to have in the game, right now the only hostile air dino in the game is the argie and they can be outran by any other flying dino in the game. some hostile air bosses that fly around and are super powerful would be awesome in the game, maybe like a giga's strength.

making land dinos more useful is a better solution; boost speed, make them stronger and put in some dinos that are super fast but are also really strong. A ptera is both the fastest in the game and is also one of the strongest as you can barrel roll dinos and almost take no damage. so why not have a land dino thats comparable?

All up i think the devs time would be better suited advancing the game and adding more air content rather than spending their time nerfing dinos all ready in the game.