Downbreeding Dino Lvls

[Shmobi]

I was recently playing around with some of the breeding modifiers on my server to stress test the mutation mechanic since im new to the game. I read up on some stuff and ran some experiments and started to wonder.

Let's assume you bred a bunch of mutations and kept raising the level until you have lets say a lvl 200 Rex with 20/20 mutations on both sides. Would it actually be possible to breed this Rex with a clean Lvl 10 Rex to get a rather low level Rex with the same stats as the lvl 200 Rex including the mutations on only one side so you could keep going with them? That d let you breed a super dino on a very low level tho.

Couldn't find any similar questions to this, sorry if its a duplicate.

[Oalka]

The level of the dino is controlled by the stats. You CAN breed a lvl 200 dino with filled mutation slots with a clean lvl whatever dino and keep getting mutations, and you CAN get an offspring from that pairing that will have the max stats between the two. However, if you DO get the maximum stats, the offspring will be the exact same level as the high-lvl guy, just with 40+ mutations from that side and 0 from the other (meaning he can still get mutations from that side of the parentage).

Side note: you've almost stumbled upon a popular breeding strategy here, although it doesn't quite work as you put it. There's a hard cap of dino levels (I forget what it is exactly), and a good strategy is to crank your mutations as high as possible close to that hard cap, then cross breed with a lowbie dino until you get really crap stat values in stats that don't matter (i.e. move speed, food, etc) so that you can keep going with your good stats (since dino level is based on stat values).

[Shmobi]

45 minutes ago, Oalka said:

The level of the dino is controlled by the stats. You CAN breed a lvl 200 dino with filled mutation slots with a clean lvl whatever dino and keep getting mutations, and you CAN get an offspring from that pairing that will have the max stats between the two. However, if you DO get the maximum stats, the offspring will be the exact same level as the high-lvl guy, just with 40+ mutations from that side and 0 from the other (meaning he can still get mutations from that side of the parentage).

Side note: you've almost stumbled upon a popular breeding strategy here, although it doesn't quite work as you put it. There's a hard cap of dino levels (I forget what it is exactly), and a good strategy is to crank your mutations as high as possible close to that hard cap, then cross breed with a lowbie dino until you get really crap stat values in stats that don't matter (i.e. move speed, food, etc) so that you can keep going with your good stats (since dino level is based on stat values).

Does the game actually remember what points have been put where (by the dino or by me) and what mutations occured (what bonuses applied to which stat) and calculates the stat from those values or does the game just simply see a level 30 dinosaur with a 200% meelee stat? Judging from the bad ui of the game which doesn't tell you anything and since the stat-calc from dododex only works on wild dinos i assumed the game actually doesn't know how many points went into which stats and only saves the final value.

 

I have just bred a female Therizinosaurus lvl 202 with a male 45. Got a Male 128 with all the stats of the 202 mother except for the weight. The weight of the 202 mother was 500 and of the 45 father was 300 (which the baby does have now). Considering what you just said that should not be possible then, should it?

[DarthaNyan]

43 minutes ago, Shmobi said:

Does the game actually remember what points have been put where (by the dino or by me) and what mutations occured (what bonuses applied to which stat) and calculates the stat from those values or does the game just simply see a level 30 dinosaur with a 200% meelee stat? Judging from the bad ui of the game which doesn't tell you anything and since the stat-calc from dododex only works on wild dinos i assumed the game actually doesn't know how many points went into which stats and only saves the final value.

Stats (or rather statpoints put into stats) define overall level, not the other way around. When wild dino spawns game randomly assigns its predetermined amount of stat points into valid stats and you get a dino of certain level, that information is saved until dino is killed.

Mutations are not that complicated: they are just +2 points into affected stat (and there fore to max level) and game doesn't track which mutations and how many of them occurred. Nothing less, and a little bit more when you start to think about mutation marks (that are separate from mutations themselves and are not representative of now many mutations dino had), stat point and level caps.

Dododex stat-calc works for wild dinos only because of the way Tamed dinos' stats are calculated: they may receive some additive bonus or malus specific to that dino species and a multiplicative one based on TE (separate from bonus wild levels). The usual stat that is affected by multiplicative bonus is Melee. For more information on how stat calculation REALLY works look here: https://ark.gamepedia.com/Creature_Stats_Calculation

If you need a stat-calc that works for tamed dinos, then look up ARK Smart Breeding app.

43 minutes ago, Shmobi said:

I have just bred a female Therizinosaurus lvl 202 with a male 45. Got a Male 128 with all the stats of the 202 mother except for the weight. The weight of the 202 mother was 500 and of the 45 father was 300 (which the baby does have now). Considering what you just said that should not be possible then, should it?

You really should get away from the concept of "level" and learn how stat points work and inherited to be a successful breeder. In your case i'd assume baby also inherited lower amount of points put into speed stat (aka "wasted" points since they do nothing except bloating level number).

[Campi]

If you are on your own server you can activate creative mode with "cheat gcm". That will give you (among other perks) a special gun with 3 abilities. right click changes the mode of the gun:
- green mode: this is the one you want to use - it will show you the individual points in each stats of a dino you point the gun at ingame. they are also shown seperately between wild and player-added. for offspring only the wild ones count. the level of the dino is the sum of those points.

to complete the list - but not needed for breeding:
- blue mode: teleport to the position pointed at
- red mode: kill any dino, structure or player you point at (also works for structures not in your tribe so be careful as an admin if you have other players on the map)

after you are done with this you use the cheat again to deactivate it but you'll have to relog to reset your engrams since the cheat also unlocks all of them temporarily until a relog.

[Flashock]

As far as o know.

The max dino level is 450 on official. Anything over that gets deleted.

If you have a 20/20 mutation, breeding to a non mutated dino will allow you to keep mutating.

Breeding to a low level dino is used to get rid of wasted points (oxy, food, speed) 

A 450 could have say 80 points in each stat or it could have more points in main stats (health, melee) and no points in wasted stats (oxy, food, speed)

Also, the points you put in after leveling don't count in breeding. Only the base stats count.

[NauticalNinja]

On 11/28/2018 at 5:17 PM, Shmobi said:

Does the game actually remember what points have been put where (by the dino or by me) and what mutations occured (what bonuses applied to which stat) and calculates the stat from those values or does the game just simply see a level 30 dinosaur with a 200% meelee stat? Judging from the bad ui of the game which doesn't tell you anything and since the stat-calc from dododex only works on wild dinos i assumed the game actually doesn't know how many points went into which stats and only saves the final value.

 

I have just bred a female Therizinosaurus lvl 202 with a male 45. Got a Male 128 with all the stats of the 202 mother except for the weight. The weight of the 202 mother was 500 and of the 45 father was 300 (which the baby does have now). Considering what you just said that should not be possible then, should it?

A stat that most people also over look is torpidity often times the differences in level is caused by this stat. I know when I am making a base mother, and father I tend to breed until all stats are the same painful process, but worth it in my eyes. 

[DarthaNyan]

57 minutes ago, NauticalNinja said:

A stat that most people also over look is torpidity often times the differences in level is caused by this stat.

this is a pile of dodo crap. Max torpidity is automagically scaled to total base level of the dino. Dinos of same species with same base level (after tame/born level) will have same amount of max torpidity. Period.

[Shmobi]

2 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

this is a pile of dodo crap. Max torpidity is automagically scaled to total base level of the dino. Dinos of same species with same base level (after tame/born level) will have same amount of max torpidity. Period.

I agree. this was also my knowledge.

 

10 hours ago, Campi said:

If you are on your own server you can activate creative mode with "cheat gcm". That will give you (among other perks) a special gun with 3 abilities. right click changes the mode of the gun:
- green mode: this is the one you want to use - it will show you the individual points in each stats of a dino you point the gun at ingame. they are also shown seperately between wild and player-added. for offspring only the wild ones count. the level of the dino is the sum of those points.

to complete the list - but not needed for breeding:
- blue mode: teleport to the position pointed at
- red mode: kill any dino, structure or player you point at (also works for structures not in your tribe so be careful as an admin if you have other players on the map)

after you are done with this you use the cheat again to deactivate it but you'll have to relog to reset your engrams since the cheat also unlocks all of them temporarily until a relog.

Im playing without cheats of any sort or shape, sorry.

19 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

Stats (or rather statpoints put into stats) define overall level, not the other way around. When wild dino spawns game randomly assigns its predetermined amount of stat points into valid stats and you get a dino of certain level, that information is saved until dino is killed.

Mutations are not that complicated: they are just +2 points into affected stat (and there fore to max level) and game doesn't track which mutations and how many of them occurred. Nothing less, and a little bit more when you start to think about mutation marks (that are separate from mutations themselves and are not representative of now many mutations dino had), stat point and level caps.

Dododex stat-calc works for wild dinos only because of the way Tamed dinos' stats are calculated: they may receive some additive bonus or malus specific to that dino species and a multiplicative one based on TE (separate from bonus wild levels). The usual stat that is affected by multiplicative bonus is Melee. For more information on how stat calculation REALLY works look here: https://ark.gamepedia.com/Creature_Stats_Calculation

If you need a stat-calc that works for tamed dinos, then look up ARK Smart Breeding app.

You really should get away from the concept of "level" and learn how stat points work and inherited to be a successful breeder. In your case i'd assume baby also inherited lower amount of points put into speed stat (aka "wasted" points since they do nothing except bloating level number).

Seems to make sense. Probably got rid of the movement speed points then. Thanks

[Shmobi]

@DarthaNyan what exactly is the use of breeding mutations then in compare to leveling the dino if its just an increase of 2 stats points / 2 levels on a certain stat? I mean yes next time you breed with it the outcome will have those additional points and wont have to be lvld up again. But it seems like a lot more effort to breed mutations on a specific stat rather than just leveling up the dino and put the points in a specific stat.

[DinoKing001]

Can i also say that ark extinction for xbox one needs to be fixed, I don't want any more origami dinos, it scares me.

[ishootpaint]

1 hour ago, Shmobi said:

@DarthaNyan what exactly is the use of breeding mutations then in compare to leveling the dino if its just an increase of 2 stats points / 2 levels on a certain stat? I mean yes next time you breed with it the outcome will have those additional points and wont have to be lvld up again. But it seems like a lot more effort to breed mutations on a specific stat rather than just leveling up the dino and put the points in a specific stat.

 The stronger the starting stat the more you get per lvl once tamed/bred. Those two extra points in a stat can make a noticeable difference once you start leveling it. 

 If I had two rexs. One with 350 melee and the other with a muatation that put it at 360 melee(not accurate numbers but fine for the sake of an example). Every time you level up the melee it goes up by 5% of the starting base stat, so naturally 5% of 350 is less than 5% of 360. So you get more per lvl up giving you a much better end result.

[Cinnamongod]

1 hour ago, Shmobi said:

@DarthaNyan what exactly is the use of breeding mutations then in compare to leveling the dino if its just an increase of 2 stats points / 2 levels on a certain stat? I mean yes next time you breed with it the outcome will have those additional points and wont have to be lvld up again. But it seems like a lot more effort to breed mutations on a specific stat rather than just leveling up the dino and put the points in a specific stat.

2 points in a stat does not equal 2 levels in a stat only in the overall level. You would have to look at a chart on how the value of a given stat varies per point as each one is different. After your dino is either tamed or grows up you get to distribute 71 into it until it maxes. So the higher level your dino starts at the higher level you can level it to. Just do not level to 450 or above on Official or it will get deleted on restart. 

[DarthaNyan]

16 hours ago, Shmobi said:

@DarthaNyan what exactly is the use of breeding mutations then in compare to leveling the dino if its just an increase of 2 stats points / 2 levels on a certain stat? I mean yes next time you breed with it the outcome will have those additional points and wont have to be lvld up again. But it seems like a lot more effort to breed mutations on a specific stat rather than just leveling up the dino and put the points in a specific stat.

Domesticated levels (that dinos get with exp after being tamed/born) are separate from base/wild levels. There is limited fixed amount of domesticated levels that can be gained on any dino. Level 5 dino and level 200 freshly tamed/born dinos will require same amount of exp to level up.

Domesticated levels give a percentage of base stat per point.

Mutations increase base/wild stat thus magnify the bonus domesticated levels give.

[JackpotMonkey]

Level cap is 450. Any Dino 451 and above gets deleted on server restart