"Survival Evolved" Revisited ... Open Letter to Devs and Players

[theronin]

I have been particularly vocal about server transfers since the start.  I always felt I was a hardened Ark player having logged 2k+ hours and surviving just fine by myself or in a small tribe outlasting generation upon generation of alphas on the same server.  I owed much of this to my own survivalist evolution.  Many of you can relate.  We started out with our wooden houses, likely got griefed or wiped and upgraded to smarter stone shelters.  We would get griefed or wiped, and learned to use terrain to our advantage.  That evolution may have found you in a formidable metal base defended by turrets and xplants.  Add to this cross-tribe diplomacy, politics, subterfuge, misdirection.  For my own experience, I relied heavily on all of these to last as long as I did.  Things seemed to approach a steady state where I was always good with the reining alpha.  It became almost a chore this day to day life in the Ark.  There was no more "evolving" if you will.

Then server transfers happened.  Everything and the kitchen sink went out the door.

This change was such a shocker to myself and clearly to everyone else because their status quo was shattered like a dodo under the steps of a giga.  I know it effed my Ark world up pretty bad.  But whether you liked it or not, if you wanted to survive on official PVP, you now REALLY had to evolve.

Let me digress ... look outside in your Ark world.  You see rexes dominating the landscape practically ignoring the little dinos scurrying about.  Look at this food chain that you see happening in the Ark wild.  Before server transfers, this food chain went stagnant.  The constant evolution, the survival evolved, went stagnant.

What these server transfers allowed was to include ALL servers into this Ark ecosystem.  Now the indomitable rex is no more because there are other much stronger rexes introduced into the fog of war.  Who was once predator is now prey and this chain continues so long as the transfers exist.

Well how can new players even compete, you ask?  I asked the same thing.  But could it be reasonable to think that new players were never meant to compete.  That Ark was always meant to be this open ecosystem sandbox where there would never be a permanent king but rather a constant dethroning by an always present better alpha tribe.  Put another way, *survival evolved*.

Some of you know that I've taken this to heart and started my own insurgency effort to displace (or at least highly annoy) whoever this current king is.  It's not easy.  It's ALWAYS tense.  But unlike the 'days of yore' where I spent much of my time admiring my many turrets and cooking up nice meals in my metal palace, we are spending every second weighing the cost benefit of our efforts.  Spending every second looking around to make sure we weren't compromised.  Every second wondering how we will survive another day.  Our evolution is in a high gear that we have never seen before.

I am not justifying server transfer - frankly, I doubt the devs ever had this in mind as the consequence.  I know from a dev's writing that the initial intent was to allow players to move off server.  So I'm not sure this is what they intended.  But from my own personal player perspective, this is what I am seeing now that I have embraced what Ark is today.

[Lockjaw]

2 hours ago, theronin said:

That Ark was always meant to be this open ecosystem sandbox where there would never be a permanent king but rather a constant dethroning by an always present better alpha tribe.

Yeah I've noticed that 99% of ARK players either don't understand this or are just unwilling to accept it. You're not meant to be untouchable, no matter how hard you worked to get where you are.

[Melcreif]

On 2/9/2017 at 0:31 PM, theronin said:

I have been particularly vocal about server transfers since the start.  I always felt I was a hardened Ark player having logged 2k+ hours and surviving just fine by myself or in a small tribe outlasting generation upon generation of alphas on the same server.  I owed much of this to my own survivalist evolution.  Many of you can relate.  We started out with our wooden houses, likely got griefed or wiped and upgraded to smarter stone shelters.  We would get griefed or wiped, and learned to use terrain to our advantage.  That evolution may have found you in a formidable metal base defended by turrets and xplants.  Add to this cross-tribe diplomacy, politics, subterfuge, misdirection.  For my own experience, I relied heavily on all of these to last as long as I did.  Things seemed to approach a steady state where I was always good with the reining alpha.  It became almost a chore this day to day life in the Ark.  There was no more "evolving" if you will.

Then server transfers happened.  Everything and the kitchen sink went out the door.

This change was such a shocker to myself and clearly to everyone else because their status quo was shattered like a dodo under the steps of a giga.  I know it effed my Ark world up pretty bad.  But whether you liked it or not, if you wanted to survive on official PVP, you now REALLY had to evolve.

Let me digress ... look outside in your Ark world.  You see rexes dominating the landscape practically ignoring the little dinos scurrying about.  Look at this food chain that you see happening in the Ark wild.  Before server transfers, this food chain went stagnant.  The constant evolution, the survival evolved, went stagnant.

What these server transfers allowed was to include ALL servers into this Ark ecosystem.  Now the indomitable rex is no more because there are other much stronger rexes introduced into the fog of war.  Who was once predator is now prey and this chain continues so long as the transfers exist.

Well how can new players even compete, you ask?  I asked the same thing.  But could it be reasonable to think that new players were never meant to compete.  That Ark was always meant to be this open ecosystem sandbox where there would never be a permanent king but rather a constant dethroning by an always present better alpha tribe.  Put another way, *survival evolved*.

Some of you know that I've taken this to heart and started my own insurgency effort to displace (or at least highly annoy) whoever this current king is.  It's not easy.  It's ALWAYS tense.  But unlike the 'days of yore' where I spent much of my time admiring my many turrets and cooking up nice meals in my metal palace, we are spending every second weighing the cost benefit of our efforts.  Spending every second looking around to make sure we weren't compromised.  Every second wondering how we will survive another day.  Our evolution is in a high gear that we have never seen before.

I am not justifying server transfer - frankly, I doubt the devs ever had this in mind as the consequence.  I know from a dev's writing that the initial intent was to allow players to move off server.  So I'm not sure this is what they intended.  But from my own personal player perspective, this is what I am seeing now that I have embraced what Ark is today.

First off I wanted to let you know I love the way you write, I can really feel what you are saying.  Personally my server has never experienced the Chinese hoard, who my 14 year old son btw believes are actually Koreans :-).  Either way even though I haven't experienced this same server wipe, our server sees similar issues that we've been forced to deal with.  We've actually banned together into a coalition of about 14 tribes where we are very serious about eliminating trolls and potential trolls.  I've been in this server longer than most of them, but since I'm mostly a solo tribe I have come late to this party.  I'd talk to a few folks here and there and hear about this list that supposedly I'm on!  I ask them what list? I've never seen a list!  So the tribe leaders all use KIK chat and guess what? I'm on he list LOL.  So finally one of the other tribe leaders invites me to the KIK chat and now I see what it's like from that side of the fence!  It's pretty cool and just shows how by opening up all servers it provides an endless but very real threat from the outside that with proper planning we can all be ready for!  It requires diligence and a truly unique chance at allowing us to create a bond with other tribes. Pretty cool!

[CCRogerWilco]

15 hours ago, Lockjaw said:

Yeah I've noticed that 99% of ARK players either don't understand this or are just unwilling to accept it. You're not meant to be untouchable, no matter how hard you worked to get where you are.

I don't play PvP because I don't like the concept (and I'm not any good at combat, I also suck at FPS games).

My problem with the general design of the PvP system in ARK is that you can lose many hours of work very quickly, without being able to do anything about it.

Most (all?) PvP games have a system where you mostly fight against players of similar skill, or there is no persistent world. Usually the gains/losses for each individual battle are also small. In ARK the gains/losses are not in any balance.

 

I don't like games that allow for "offline raids". I played OGame for a while, it had the same problem.

I don't like how this game forces you to be selfish, paranoid and a bully.

I don't like how this game makes it hard to try and retaliate by not giving you much information of who did what. (And that you have to rely on the logs to begin with - see my comment on offline raiding). If I got killed in World of Warcraft I knew who it was and could hunt them and try to kill them in return.

[Poltron]

There's still should be servers where transfer is not allowed, you start from scratch and when you're done, you're done. Cluster is fine for those who wish to play Ark vs Ark, but the politics, the scouting, the alliance, the backstabbing, is all part of the original game.

 

At that point, why even bother fighting with the server, when you know there's something bigger coming, while you're offline at that. It's cheap and anticlimatic.

[theronin]

2 hours ago, CCRogerWilco said:

My problem with the general design of the PvP system in ARK is that you can lose many hours of work very quickly, without being able to do anything about it.

Consider this - where does it say that the purpose of the game is to accumulate stuff?  Where does it say that the goal is to build the biggest bases and have the most tames?  if anything, the only thing the game suggests is *survival* ... there is no logic behind the assertion that having the biggest base is survival or having ascendant gear is survival.  More over, it's survival *evolved* ... implying that over time, what once worked will no longer work.  This is exactly what I was referring to in my original post.

Now I don't want to give the devs too much credit (heaven forbid!  LOL), but maybe, just maybe, what have today is what they initially had in mind - a constant churn of alpha tribe dethronement.  Before the game could get there though, it needed established ecosystems - or more to the point, players that have bought into these ecosystems and invested thousands upon thousands of hours.  Once these mutually exclusive ecosystems were established (i.e., each individual island map), the flood gates were opened via server transfers and now the once isolated ecosystems are interdependent.  One massive island.

Hey, I was probably one of the more vocal opponents of the server transfers.  Just search google lol.  But I was "guilty" (is that the right word?) of thinking the same - that this game was not a survival game but a ... sim building game with dinos, I guess?  I had the huge metal palaces, the rex armies, you name it.  Then reality in the form server transfers slapped me in the face like a cold bucket of water and try as I might, I could never again relive those metal base glory days - not the way I played as a sim builder, not as a *survivor*.

Did I just pretty much do WC's PR work??  Damnit WC, message me for my paypal lol.

[Sh4rk]

4 hours ago, CCRogerWilco said:

I don't play PvP because I don't like the concept (and I'm not any good at combat, I also suck at FPS games).

My problem with the general design of the PvP system in ARK is that you can lose many hours of work very quickly, without being able to do anything about it.

Most (all?) PvP games have a system where you mostly fight against players of similar skill, or there is no persistent world. Usually the gains/losses for each individual battle are also small. In ARK the gains/losses are not in any balance.

 

I don't like games that allow for "offline raids". I played OGame for a while, it had the same problem.

I don't like how this game forces you to be selfish, paranoid and a bully.

I don't like how this game makes it hard to try and retaliate by not giving you much information of who did what. (And that you have to rely on the logs to begin with - see my comment on offline raiding). If I got killed in World of Warcraft I knew who it was and could hunt them and try to kill them in return.

Then dont play PvP if it isn't for you. At least you know it it isn't your thing, and didn't fall into the pit of unworthy noobs that cry all over the forums blaming WC for their losses in a game where everything is at risk. Some people enjoy the brutal environment of PvP for its suspense and sense of urgency. I am mostly a PvE player because I too just like to chill out and have some cool dinos But I do PvP sometimes because living under the radar and trying to remain hiddem is quite enjoyable. Ark PvP is what you make of it. If you go in thinking you will tame lots of dinos and build a huge base, expecting to keep it forever or not become a target, you chose the wrong game mode, plain and simple. I used go hate pvp too until I took on a new purpose and perspective of it.

[skeeta]

1 hour ago, theronin said:

.....where does it say that the purpose of the game is to accumulate stuff?  Where does it say that the goal is to build the biggest bases and have the most tames....

It doesn't and I'm certainly not interested in any of that. I want a nice base. Somewhere I and a few pets can call home and be safe from the elements. Somewhere that's aesthetically pleasing rather than a fortress and built in a neighbourhood where I can wave to fellow players as they pass. 

I want pets that I tamed, not for war, but for the pleasure of owning them. Who wouldn't want to ride a Rex given the chance? Who doesn't want to soar through the skys on a Pteranodon or a huge eagle? I've tamed a Ptera purely for that reason and I will tame a Rex along with all the other pets I think it would be fun to own just for the joy of it. Not 20 of each. Not a whole army of animals set to deploy at a moments notice. No, just two. Two of each. One for everyday use and one for redundancy purposes.  

That's why I play PvE at the moment. It's the closest thing we have to my ideal gaming experience.

That said, I would love to move over to PvP if it were at all possible to continue playing in my own style. I like the thought of chatting to the others on the server, making friends and offering my limited services should the need arise (Game of Thrones fans......think House Mormont. Small but willing to help when needed). Yes, you can do this on PvE but, lets face it, they're never going to be in a position to require aid.

IRL, people CAN walk up to you in the street and knock you out without warning. They can rob you and burn your house to the ground without provocation but generally speaking they don't. The tiny minority that do tend to be dealt with either by the law or by the community they reside in. 

The real world is PvP and I'd rather like the in game world to be like that but with added joy of riding dinosaurs 

 

[banggugyangu]

Here's a thought,  what if a rule were implemented that, should someone initiate PVP, then for a certain time frame they are put under the Hardcore server rule where dying would render them back at level 1.  This would still allow for people to make the decision to do bad things with the risk factor of a heavy punishment for doing them, should they not actually get away with it.

[skeeta]

7 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

Here's a thought,  what if a rule were implemented that, should someone initiate PVP, then for a certain time frame they are put under the Hardcore server rule where dying would render them back at level 1.  This would still allow for people to make the decision to do bad things with the risk factor of a heavy punishment for doing them, should they not actually get away with it.

Not a bad idea but you know some clown would just start running up behind people on a Rex and try and get them to lash out in a blind panic thereby handing the honour of starting the fight to the poor guy on the ground who was just out collecting wood.

[Melcreif]

3 hours ago, theronin said:

Consider this - where does it say that the purpose of the game is to accumulate stuff?  Where does it say that the goal is to build the biggest bases and have the most tames?  if anything, the only thing the game suggests is *survival* ... there is no logic behind the assertion that having the biggest base is survival or having ascendant gear is survival.  More over, it's survival *evolved* ... implying that over time, what once worked will no longer work.  This is exactly what I was referring to in my original post.

Now I don't want to give the devs too much credit (heaven forbid!  LOL), but maybe, just maybe, what have today is what they initially had in mind - a constant churn of alpha tribe dethronement.  Before the game could get there though, it needed established ecosystems - or more to the point, players that have bought into these ecosystems and invested thousands upon thousands of hours.  Once these mutually exclusive ecosystems were established (i.e., each individual island map), the flood gates were opened via server transfers and now the once isolated ecosystems are interdependent.  One massive island.

Hey, I was probably one of the more vocal opponents of the server transfers.  Just search google lol.  But I was "guilty" (is that the right word?) of thinking the same - that this game was not a survival game but a ... sim building game with dinos, I guess?  I had the huge metal palaces, the rex armies, you name it.  Then reality in the form server transfers slapped me in the face like a cold bucket of water and try as I might, I could never again relive those metal base glory days - not the way I played as a sim builder, not as a *survivor*.

Did I just pretty much do WC's PR work??  Damnit WC, message me for my paypal lol.

This reminds me again of the current server I play on.  I started an alliance with another tribe on my server and these guys even helped me tame my first Quetzal.  2 days later they were completely wiped and accused of supposedly cheating by the Alpha's.  They of course denied it but instead of coming back and getting revenge right away they have setup their own little spot on a totally different server wrecking a little havoc along the way.  Just goes to show that this whole transfer thing opens up endless possibilities :-)

[banggugyangu]

On 2/10/2017 at 1:47 PM, skeeta said:

Not a bad idea but you know some clown would just start running up behind people on a Rex and try and get them to lash out in a blind panic thereby handing the honour of starting the fight to the poor guy on the ground who was just out collecting wood.

In that regard, I'd let him kill me, return with my own stuff and wipe him.  It's simple to have a cooldown on the status that would put him in hardcore mode.  I would also extend that to dinos tamed by that person (not by other tribe members, though).  If you want to risk turning your 260+ rex into a level 1, feel free to grief people.  

[Currahee]

What about a visual indication from the Obelisk when someone is transferring in from another server? Like a massive lightining storm above it or something. Then when you see the indication several times in a row you know another tribe is transferring over. Just an idea.

[MaHaBe]

I recently went to a PVP server, having played on private PVE server for over a year. I see what I have been missing, and am enjoying it. Except for the trolls who come over from another server. Also, I don't agree with the ability to bring Wyverns over to the Island. I didn't pay to play Scorched Earth, so why should I have to battle something I don't have access to? 

The Cross Server trading system is great as is if you want to move to another server, but to continuously have Trolls come over and wipe you out, there should be something to stop the easiness of it. Like a cool down, say cant transfer back for a 24 hours or some such. Allows the Tribes on the Home server to retaliate or defend themselves.