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60 First Tame

About Lockjaw

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  1. I'm surprised that a master of the English language such as yourself could possibly misread what I said. I didn't say that the claim was made that a bred Rex would beat a wild Giga. I said to keep the comparisons apples-to-apples. The implication that the lowest Giga should curbstomp or even be on par with the highest bred Rex is absurd, and goes directly against the effort/reward excuse. But if you would rather breed Rexes than Gigas then go for it. Nobody is stopping you. You could do better than that though and breed up an army of super Dilos for an even better value. Nobody would be able to keep up with your ultra fast breeding program. Let's say that you're not lying, not playing on a boosted server, nothing. You've just had incredibly good (like lottery-level good) luck with your Rexes and incredibly bad luck with your Gigas. Not trying to be rude, but the luck that you've had up until now is irrelevant. If you want to talk about what's possible then we might as well bring Gigas who have 223 points in melee into the discussion. Nobody has ever gotten that before, but it's possible, so there you go. You didn't get those 85 points because it's a Rex, it just happened to be a Rex that you were taming when it happened. Assuming, again, that you're being completely honest with us. ----- Anyway, all that aside, I have some suggestions on how it might be reworked to clean up this mess and hopefully make everyone somewhat happy. Now I'm going to stress something before I even start: A give-and-take solution like the one I'm about to offer is a courtesy to all the happy Giga riders out there. Wildcard would be perfectly justified if they continued to just nerf the Giga and walk away, or even remove it all together. And I'm about done trying to extend that courtesy to people who are unwilling to compromise on anything and insist that their dino has to be the most OP thing ever and that the Rex should be left in the mud as a trash dino for the egg farm. I'm sure that there are plenty of reasonable Giga riders out there though who would be willing to have a real discussion and find a mutually acceptable solution. So... - Scale down the Giga's size to be closer to that of the Rex and Spino. I suppose that this one isn't completely necessary, but it would sure take some of the obnoxiousness out of it. - Massively nerf the damage and health of wild gigas. If the Giga's size remains the same then I'm thinking that a base health slightly lower than the Bronto would be appropriate. - Depending how hard the base stats get nerfed, reduce or even remove the negative taming bonuses. Let the Giga's health scale better than it currently does. Again maybe make it comparable to the Bronto. This would give the Giga rider more freedom to customize rather than making it mandatory to just pump melee and nothing else. It would also remove the pain of being unable to defeat your wild counterparts. - Bring the time that it takes to breed a Giga in line with the time that it takes to breed a Rex or Spino. - Drastically reduce the damage that Gigas do against creatures, but maintain or even increase the damage that they do against structures. Maybe even give it a charging attack that breaks metal walls while hurting/stunning the Giga. This would solidify the Giga's role as a siege weapon while leaving a clear reason to use other melee mounts. - Allow tamed Gigas to keep Gnashed, but drastically reduce the damage that Gnashed does against all creatures except the Bronto. This would stay true to the dossier's description of the Bronto as the Giga's main prey, while not stepping on the Allo's toes as the bleeder theropod. - Increase the Rex's melee damage, but make it drain stamina faster while running and lower it's oxygen. Rex is a power dino, not a speed dino. And anyone who has seen the Land Before Time knows that it can't swim with those puny arms. - Lower the spawn count of wild Rexes so they aren't all over the place. Their spawns can be replaced with Carnos and Allos.
  2. Yes Gigas are more time consuming to raise. That was never debated. But if the argument is that the investment/reward isn't good enough then the answer is that Gigas should just take less time breed. Making it stronger would be redundant when it already dominates, and that wouldn't make it any more accessible to those who can't currently breed one And if that's the measuring stick that you're going by then by that logic a bred Rex should easily shred any non-bred Giga. Not just win by a small margin, completely annihilate it because of the time involved in breeding the Rex.
  3. Bottom line is: nothing other than an apples-to-apples comparison is even relevant to the discussion. A 'white whale' shouldn't be used for comparison at all because it's so unlikely that anyone will even get one, but if you do bring up a white whale of a Rex then you need to put it up against a white whale of a Giga. Want to use a top-of-the-line bred Rex with full imprinting and all mutations in either health or damage? Then you gotta put it up against a top-of-the-line Giga with full imprinting and mutations. And Darinth is correct about speed. Any wild levels that go into speed are wasted because they have no effect. A lot of creatures have a flat taming bonus on speed, but it doesn't come from extra levels. It's just an additive bonus like the Giga's -80% bonus on melee. And of course speed can be increased through imprinting and domestic levels.
  4. Haha I must not have expressed myself very well, but yes I completely agree with you. It was the person I was talking to who was trying to compare the best bred Rexes to the worst Gigas. I was simply going along with the numbers that he put out there for comparison.
  5. Yeah sorry but spending days setting an alarm and getting a perfect imprint on a Rex, after spending who knows how long finding and taming those two perfect parents, is not easier than just taming a Giga. If that's the basis of your argument then we'll need to just stop here because we're not going to agree. And finding a dinosaur with over 200% melee in the wild might be rare, but that doesn't include the bonus levels that come from taming. A perfect tamed 150 will wake up at lvl 224, which means that on average it will have around 32 levels in melee. If your Giga wakes up at 70% melee it means that it only has 10 levels in melee, which clearly on the low side. If, though, you are that type of person who has no trouble getting a perfect imprint then you should probably be breeding those low level Gigas of yours. The benefit that Gigas get from imprinting is massive.
  6. No it won't, not by a long shot. Man I want to play on your server if that's the norm there. Rexes are easy to find, but for me a good melee Rex is incredibly hard to find. And it's generally a bad idea to just pump nothing but melee because the Rex just gets so much more when you invest in health, and because you just end up with a very squishy Rex. Not easy? Even without any training that's 20 wild levels in melee. A mediocre Giga could easily wake up with that. I'd be ok with that, as long as the base Giga is brought down with everything else. That would make a lot more sense then where the Giga currently stands.
  7. A fat, obnoxious Giga that's like 1000x stronger than the Rex. Crap, too late... Well then, no equipment that basically makes a human more powerful than a dinosaur. Crap... Ok then, no magic. And yeah no more vehicles, other than an air boat. Air boats would be cool.
  8. Haha this made me laugh. Anyway, I agree with all the points that you made here. It seems weird that it would require all that time and effort to breed a low-level baby when you could just get a better one out of the wild without the huge time investment.
  9. The taming mechanic does feel downright evil, which is why I haven't tried to tame any Troodons yet myself. Really though I suppose it's no different than slaughtering your tamed sheep for mutton. I might just suck it up and use Gigas as taming food for these guys. Not because it's a good trade, obviously. I just hate Gigas as much as the OP hates Troodons. These guys do intrigue me though. It seems like there's more to them than meets the eye. As much as people fear the ones in the wild, I imagine that a pack of high-level breeds would be able to wipe out a whole tribe armed to the teeth with ascendant gear in a fashion similar to what the raptors did against the soldiers in the grass scene of The Lost World.
  10. Agreed
  11. Aaaand that's one of the specific reasons that someone on this forum gave as to why he wants a complete wipe of official servers. So that people could look beyond their own time investment and be in a better position to give objective feedback. Experimenting and rebalancing are an inevitable part of early access, even if people who have the overpowered stuff view it as a slap in their face. If that's how you look at it then you should probably have waited until the game is completed and polished before buying it. We're here to test and to give Wildcard our feedback and suggestions, which is exactly what everyone in this thread is doing. If the imbalance bothers us then you can be sure that it will likewise bother a lot of future customers who haven't yet bought the game. It's our job to bring these things to the Wildcard's attention so that they know what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong. And yes, things like difficulty in taming and the time that it takes to breed are subject to change just like everything else in the game. Actually, these things are already changing. With rates being boosted and new tools being brought into play it's a lot easier to tame a Giga now than it was in the beginning. One of the major differences between taming a Rex and taming a Giga used to be their preferred kibble, but now you can tame either one using raw mutton. And there's a very good chance that breeding will likewise become easier with Tek Tier.
  12. If that were the intended design it would be a poopy design to say the least, and Wildcard would have some very poopy devs if they stubbornly insisted on sticking to it. But that's not the intended design. You're referring to unfinished placeholders in an unfinished game. Wildcard has already been taking steps to balance the game, such as giving you the ability to use weapons while riding creatures who were bottom-of-the-barrel before. That wouldn't have happened if those low tier dinos were meant to be replaced and just rot in the egg farm. No it shouldn't. Having more than one apex predator wouldn't take anything away from progression. They would simply fill different roles, much like the Rex and Spino already do when compared to each other. Want something that's an upgrade over your Rex? Get busy breeding and training yourself a better Rex. Want a replacement for your Spino? Get a better Spino. An upgrade over your Giga? Get a better Giga. And I think the main form of progression is meant to be achieved through technology tiers anyway. The guy sitting in his underwater Tek base will have a lot more progression under his belt that the guy throwing up a thatch hut on the beach.
  13. Here's my interpretation of where they all stand right now: Spino Pros: All-terrain versatility Cons: Less power than the other apex predators Summary: Spino is more-or-less where he should be. He won't out-muscle the Rex or Giga, but he easily makes up for it with his versatility. Rex Pros: Supposedly the best pick for boss arenas. I'd be interested to see how Megalosaurus and Therizinosaurus fare against the bosses, but for the sake of argument we can say that Rex is the king of the arenas. Cons: While it's not exactly bottom-of-the-barrel in terms of power, it's still far from the powerhouse described in the dossier. Gigas, Titans, Mosas, Plesios, Megalosaurus, Squids, Golems, Wyverns, humans with weapons, and even Yogi Bear all laugh at the Rex's puny damage output. Summary: King of the boss killers is an awesome role and one that is fitting for the Rex. The problem is the way that it's implemented. It isn't that the Rex is actually the best choice for fighting the bosses; it just gets the title by default because anything that would have been better for the job is either not allowed in the arena (Gigas), or the abilities that would have made the creature effective are disabled against the bosses (the Allo's bleed). It's a hollow title at best, and just feels like a band aid fix that they put in so that they could technically say that Rex is an endgame tame. Giga Pros: Absurdly high base stats; ability to damage stone structures. Indisputably the best choice for all ground-based melee fighting. Cons: Doesn't scale as well as the others; longer breeding times; can't enter the boss arenas; can get mad and kill you if you make him stumble off a cliff and stub his toe. Summary: If implemented correctly, the idea that it starts higher but doesn't scale as well as the others could have added depth to the game and created a distinct niche to separate it from other carnivores such as the Rex. Unfortunately that's not what happened because it's just stupidly overpowered no matter how you look at it. It could have been set up so that the Giga starts out the strongest at low levels, but as you train the Rex and unlock it's potential it gradually surpasses even a trained high-level Giga. This would make the Giga the dinosaur of choice for those who just want to tame it and immediately have a powerful mount, but the Rex would be the dinosaur of choice for more patient players who want to earn maximum power through training. Now, I know that there are Giga riders out there who would object to this because they think that there would be nothing in it for them, but that's not the case. If the game were more balanced it could open up a lot of things for the Giga rider. More reasonable breeding times; the ability to take their beloved pet into boss arenas; the ability to have imprinted Gigas who love you too much to kill you even if they enrage. There could be more benefits, but those are just a few that I can think of off the top of my head.
  14. Maybe it's a place holder setting up for the TLC pass? I hope so. I'm starting to think that that thing is a myth.
  15. I suspect that it was done to balance even the currently obtainable blueprints which frankly were OP and in need of a nerf, but I also suspect that the clamping is just a temporary band aid to give them time to legitimately rework the numbers. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense that the crafting costs remained the same.