scorched earth Wildcard, you have one chance to salvage the community.

[Kaedan]

1 minute ago, Purrmaster said:

I believe the difference was that it was assumed the desert biome would be tacked onto the existing maps and would come as free.  Every other single piece of content has been free.  The Center is a huge, beautifully made map.  They didn't charge for it (though perhaps they should have).  

Basically, releasing a $20 expansion for a $40 game breaks precedent.  For full disclosure, I bought Scorched Earth.

The problem I see that Wildcard has had lately is communication.  They didn't explicitly tell anyone primitive plus wouldn't come out for Xbox when it was set to.  Yes, PC had always gotten patches first but their E3 communication implied PC and Xbox were getting it at the same time.  It took them days to finally make a statement explaining things.  They could have saved themselves a lot of hassle by just mentioning this a week before the PC release.

They could have announced Scorched Earth today or last week.  And said up front it would be paid DLC when it released.  That would have prepared people.  I'm sure they did it this way for the surprise factor but I think it's probable that bit them in the ass.

At the core of anger, I think, is worry.  Worry that they won't finish the main game.  Worry that they've basically given up on a dinosaur survival game.  Worry that they are never going to get around to the bug fixes and optimizations that do need to be done at some point.

And I share that worry, even though I bought the DLC.

And where does the worry actually come from on logic? You have been getting updates, constantly despite all this going on. A patch coming sometime next week with all the dinos. The dev's can't win. You'd have people saying they don't listen if they never added in content people wanted. The game started out wiuth 50 planned dinos and they are giving you over 100+ without the expansion. They are giving continued support, community content and digests and people think they wont finish the game. It's laughable and a slap in their face. You know if they were like Dayz team that release content every blue moon, then thinking the game will never get finished would be valid. It's not a valid point when they are giving you patches every week. People are being hysterical.

 

 

[Novarae]

36 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

While not an announcement, The desert has been a long known thing ever since the behind the scenes video. Following that they've confirmed the desert. Given that it's been known to be in the works doesn't really lend itself towards a lack of communication on the developers part and more casts a fairly negative light at players being upset that it's an expansion pack.

I think its very disingenuous to attempt to shift/misdirect the whole thing towards players on this. 

[ciabattaroll]

6 minutes ago, Purrmaster said:

I believe the difference was that it was assumed the desert biome would be tacked onto the existing maps and would come as free.  Every other single piece of content has been free.  The Center is a huge, beautifully made map.  They didn't charge for it (though perhaps they should have).  

Basically, releasing a $20 expansion for a $40 game breaks precedent.  For full disclosure, I bought Scorched Earth.

The problem I see that Wildcard has had lately is communication.  They didn't explicitly tell anyone primitive plus wouldn't come out for Xbox when it was set to.  Yes, PC had always gotten patches first but their E3 communication implied PC and Xbox were getting it at the same time.  It took them days to finally make a statement explaining things.  They could have saved themselves a lot of hassle by just mentioning this a week before the PC release.

They could have announced Scorched Earth today or last week.  And said up front it would be paid DLC when it released.  That would have prepared people.  I'm sure they did it this way for the surprise factor but I think it's probable that bit them in the ass.

At the core of anger, I think, is worry.  Worry that they won't finish the main game.  Worry that they've basically given up on a dinosaur survival game.  Worry that they are never going to get around to the bug fixes and optimizations that do need to be done at some point.

And I share that worry, even though I bought the DLC.

Your post speaks towards the core source of anger as being the price tag though. You said it yourself, you believe everyone thought it would be free, and are using this as justification for why there was no uproar at the fact that the desert was being worked on. Prior to the reveal all everyone did was speculate on how they'd implement it or what creatures  would habitate it. Pretty much no one went "finish the game instead of giving us new biomes". And now that it's released and revealed to be a paid expansion only now do you have people crying out misappropriation of resources or complaining that Wildcard  isn't working on finishing the game or fixing bugs.

[Sanciolo]

The thing that upset me a little is the fact that in the patchnotes and with the mysterious mistery thing, they would have to say that it was going to be something you need to buy, you can't just tell me there are going to be new super dooper stuff, and at the end throw me a nice "buy now 19,99€" button. 
You can, but it's not nice and fair letting people jump on the hype train in that way.

But there is literally nothing to do about this, they don't care what we think or say, read this http://www.polygon.com/features/2016/9/1/12719278/ark-survival-evolved-scorched-earth-dlc
One of the last  paragraphs

"We don't want to charge players more than we have to," he said. "That's why we give away a lot of free DLC. Some people might see that this is an Early Access title and we're selling an expansion pack and they might have an ideological issue with that. I don't think we're ever going to please those people."

[Askadiel]

The SE broke more on the other DLC P+ as Example. We cant even go fishing since the Update. I really cant understand, how WC can think i would buy a new DLC, if i see, how they tread the other DLCs and the CoreGame. Nothing happends there, things get later, vanishes from Patchnotes. We was promised P+ will be worked on and i was just lieing, first they worked on the XBox Version, then a small Patch only for PC Users, Mac and Linux on different Versions and since then, even if we was promised again in ~ 1 Week Ced will resolve all Game breaking Bugs.... nothings happends, not even an Information, Statement..... since 11.08. WC cant think, the Players wont feel betrayed.

[Purrmaster]

13 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Your post speaks towards the core source of anger as being the price tag though. You said it yourself, you believe everyone thought it would be free, and are using this as justification for why there was no uproar at the fact that the desert was being worked on. Prior to the reveal all everyone did was speculate on how they'd implement it or what creatures  would habitate it. Pretty much no one went "finish the game instead of giving us new biomes". And now that it's released and revealed to be a paid expansion only now do you have people crying out misappropriation of resources or complaining that Wildcard  isn't working on finishing the game or fixing bugs.

That's a fair point and well put. I suppose I am trying to make two arguments (and quite possibly not making them well).

The fact that this is the first time Wildcard has asked for money an expansion does break previous precedent and therefore is going to come as something of a shock to the system.  I think it would been better for all if they had said something about this earlier.  And not just in interviews that need to be hunted down but on the site/forums/twitter feeds.  

In addition, there doesn't seem to be a trajectory that the community can see for finishing the game.  It's like building a house that you keep putting additions on but you never get around to painting it.  The game does need bug fixes and speed improvements on both PC and Xbox.  I get that they can't do all of that until they finish adding content.  But at some point they have to stop adding content and finish up the game.

I, personally, am not mortally offended by them asking money for this expansion.  I bought it after all.  But at the same time I can see why some people are offended.

[MrDynamicMan]

45 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Which doesn't really make matters better as you're basically giving off the air that people wouldn't have been huffy about Wildcard "taking away time and manpower that could have been used on finishing the main game" if only it were free.

Yes. It would've been part of the main game if it wasn't behind A pay wall. 

[Thul]

This ship is going to sink if people on Xbox get refunds for False adverting like No Mans sky.

[MrDynamicMan]

36 minutes ago, Sanciolo said:

The thing that upset me a little is the fact that in the patchnotes and with the mysterious mistery thing, they would have to say that it was going to be something you need to buy, you can't just tell me there are going to be new super dooper stuff, and at the end throw me a nice "buy now 19,99€" button. 
You can, but it's not nice and fair letting people jump on the hype train in that way.

But there is literally nothing to do about this, they don't care what we think or say, read this http://www.polygon.com/features/2016/9/1/12719278/ark-survival-evolved-scorched-earth-dlc
One of the last  paragraphs

"We don't want to charge players more than we have to," he said. "That's why we give away a lot of free DLC. Some people might see that this is an Early Access title and we're selling an expansion pack and they might have an ideological issue with that. I don't think we're ever going to please those people."

Except two of the three DLC are just mods that were community made and already available, and the last is far from a massive effort. Congratulations, you gave us something someone else made and we could already get!  Whoop-di-bloody-doo. 

[MrDynamicMan]

57 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Your post speaks towards the core source of anger as being the price tag though. You said it yourself, you believe everyone thought it would be free, and are using this as justification for why there was no uproar at the fact that the desert was being worked on. Prior to the reveal all everyone did was speculate on how they'd implement it or what creatures  would habitate it. Pretty much no one went "finish the game instead of giving us new biomes". And now that it's released and revealed to be a paid expansion only now do you have people crying out misappropriation of resources or complaining that Wildcard  isn't working on finishing the game or fixing bugs.

The desert biome was a part of finishing the game. What don't you get about that? Imagine if they hyped up prim+ or the center or swamp or snow so much then said "that'll be 20 dollars." it's because we understood that they were working hard on a new feature, not a locked away DLC  separate from the game. 

 

It's like if you were doing a tech project at school and you can see your mate working really hard but when you need to hand it in he tells you he was working on his English oral. 

[ciabattaroll]

23 minutes ago, Purrmaster said:

  But at the same time I can see why some people are offended.

That's the thing, people are saying they're offended that time and manpower put into making the expansion pack could have been put into finishing  the game, but you have folks here that flat out say that if everything happened as it happened save for the pricetag, then it somehow magically wouldn't be a drain on time and manpower simply because they didn't have to pay for it.

I can understand and even sympathize with people that take offense at things they see as steering into a wrong direction, but not  with this disingenuity behind it. If people get upset, be honest about what you're upset about. Don't give this false bravado of "you divertred resources to make an expansion pack" farce and own up to what really grinds your gears: that this shiny mcguffin they've been working on is something you can't have for free.

[Purrmaster]

2 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

That's the thing, people are saying they're offended that time and manpower put into making the expansion pack could have been put into finishing  the game, but you have folks here that flat out say that if everything happened as it happened save for the pricetag, then it somehow magically wouldn't be a drain on time and manpower simply because they didn't have to pay for it.

I can understand and even sympathize with people that take offense at things they see as steering into a wrong direction, but not  with this disingenuity behind it. If people get upset, be honest about what you're upset about. Don't give this false bravado of "you divertred resources to make an expansion pack" farce and own up to what really grinds your gears: that this shiny mcguffin they've been working on is something you can't have for free.

I think I get where you're coming from:  Complaining about the main game not getting enough resources being a cover for having to pay for DLC?

I suspect people are upset about both things.  The (unprecedented) paid DLC and resources being siphoned off to that DLC instead of the core game.

And to be fair I have seen many people post on the forums before asking Wildcard to stop adding stuff and focus on fixing and releasing the main game.  I'm not sure I agree with that but I think it's a defendable position.

[MrDynamicMan]

9 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

That's the thing, people are saying they're offended that time and manpower put into making the expansion pack could have been put into finishing  the game, but you have folks here that flat out say that if everything happened as it happened save for the pricetag, then it somehow magically wouldn't be a drain on time and manpower simply because they didn't have to pay for it.

I can understand and even sympathize with people that take offense at things they see as steering into a wrong direction, but not  with this disingenuity behind it. If people get upset, be honest about what you're upset about. Don't give this false bravado of "you divertred resources to make an expansion pack" farce and own up to what really grinds your gears: that this shiny mcguffin they've been working on is something you can't have for free.

It's not the fact that we have to buy it, it's the fact that they siphoned off development resources and delayed the game for a separate project. 

Look at it this way: we 'paid' the devs to finish the game by buying it early but use the money for a separate project. 

[ciabattaroll]

5 minutes ago, Purrmaster said:

And to be fair I have seen many people post on the forums before asking Wildcard to stop adding stuff and focus on fixing and releasing the main game.  I'm not sure I agree with that but I think it's a defendable position.

Yes, there's plenty of that, but the rhetoric has always been "fix the bugs, release what you've teased, stop adding more things". the  order of which you can shift however you want. The desert had already been teased long before this particular mantra, so it's something that falls in line with the second talking point there.

[MrDynamicMan]

7 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Yes, there's plenty of that, but the rhetoric has always been "fix the bugs, release what you've teased, stop adding more things". the  order of which you can shift however you want. The desert had already been teased long before this particular mantra, so it's something that falls in line with the second talking point there.

Please could you reply to my posts? You've known me long enough that I'm not some childish rager. At least give me the time of day and address my points. 

[Purrmaster]

9 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Yes, there's plenty of that, but the rhetoric has always been "fix the bugs, release what you've teased, stop adding more things". the  order of which you can shift however you want. The desert had already been teased long before this particular mantra, so it's something that falls in line with the second talking point there.

Yeah, the demands could be a little more consistent.

The desert had been teased but it was never confirmed.  And I think it was assumed the desert biome would be like the redwoods.  Tacked onto the main map somewhere with a few new critters added.  Something melded into the main game.  Instead we got a whole new expansion that isn't melded into the main game.  That raises concerns about whether they are fully committed to the main game.

At this point they should probably stop adding stuff other than the dinos they have confirmed they will add (and they might even want to shelve a few of those) and prep the game for release in the first quarter of 2017.

It's funny because Ark has almost the opposite problem of No Man's Sky (which I just got the other day).  No Man's Sky had and official release but it probably shouldn't have because of lack of content.  Ark has plenty of content but no release.

[Soulyouth]

Should have a read of that b4 you start claiming it's the whole community.

http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/149466049419/80-20-5

[ciabattaroll]

4 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

It's not the fact that we have to buy it, it's the fact that they siphoned off development resources and delayed the game for a separate project. 

Look at it this way: we 'paid' the devs to finish the game by buying it early but use the money for a separate project. 

The announcement for the delay came long after the Desert biome was announced, and even with that no one ever said "then just stop producing the desert biome".

As for the latter sentence, that is patently false. The bylines of the early access program flat out states that what you pay for  isn't for a team to finish it's product, but rather to have the ability to play the game as it is being developed. It even goes as far as  to say that you paying doesn't guarantee a product will be delivered, as not all teams manage to finish their  project.

http://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

Is this the same as pre-purchasing a game?

No. Early Access is a full purchase of a playable game. By purchasing, you gain immediate access to download and play the game in its current form and as it evolves. You keep access to the game, even if the game later moves from Early Access into fully released.

 

When will these games release?

Its up to the developer to determine when they are ready to 'release'. Some developers have a concrete deadline in mind, while others will get a better sense as the development of the game progresses. You should be aware that some teams will be unable to 'finish' their game. So you should only buy an Early Access game if you are excited about playing it in its current state.

[GiggleSnarf]

It seems most people are throwing tantrums cus they don't wanna pay more money for a well worth it expansion. 

 

[LokiTDD]

4 minutes ago, GiggleSnarf said:

It seems most people are throwing tantrums cus they don't wanna pay more money for a well worth it expansion. 

 

No, most people are throwing tantrums because they have released a paid for dlc for an unfinished game that is still full of game breaking bugs and furthermore it reeks of pay to win  

[waterKeeper]

3 hours ago, MrDynamicMan said:

What irks me the most is that with all the resources they put towards this they could've Easily finished the game by now. 

 

But none of you actually know what the game is supposed to be. Most of you are still stuck on dino island survival game, but you're forgetting about the entire sci-fi component of the game. I've always felt that the core of it is multiverses (arks); we've had this since the beginning, they were just clone ark's at first. 

[Purrmaster]

12 minutes ago, waterKeeper said:

But none of you actually know what the game is supposed to be. Most of you are still stuck on dino island survival game, but you're forgetting about the entire sci-fi component of the game. I've always felt that the core of it is multiverses (arks); we've had this since the beginning, they were just clone ark's at first. 

I don't want to de-rail the topic but I'm glad you mentioned the sci-fi aspect.  I've always thought weird, high tech science fiction was going to be at the core of the game.  This is why I hope Tek Tier is still on the menu.

[GiggleSnarf]

8 minutes ago, LokiTDD said:

No, most people are throwing tantrums because they have released a paid for dlc for an unfinished game that is still full of game breaking bugs and furthermore it reeks of pay to win  

Unfinished only by the devs standards. If the announced it as finished and charged full price today. You'd still get more content than almost any game on the market. You complaint of game breaking bugs is understandable, but you lack an understanding of allocated resources. This has nothing to do with them setting aside a specific team to do work that could have been done on the main game. This project was likely more taxing on the art teams. This was about them learning and giving you something extra. If the d3vs felt it would be detrimental to the process of getting the game out, they wouldn't have done it. Your mad that they made a huge expansion and you don't wanna pay.

[Irk]

1 hour ago, ciabattaroll said:

That's the thing, people are saying they're offended that time and manpower put into making the expansion pack could have been put into finishing  the game, but you have folks here that flat out say that if everything happened as it happened save for the pricetag, then it somehow magically wouldn't be a drain on time and manpower simply because they didn't have to pay for it.

I'm of the camp that isn't offended by the price tag. I've said before and I'll say again, I really wouldn't mind spending more money on this game as I enjoy it. Even after saying that I refuse to buy this expansion, I still bought it since I saw this as a "hey, we kinda need a few bucks to reach our end goal". Assumption, of course, though I bit regardless.

The one's simply seeing the price tag as the issue don't have a leg to stand on. Like you said, had the expansion been free they'd be fine with it. I believe the majority of the moans-n-groans on here are due to the core game being horribly glitchy while this new expansion is a "finished product". Is this how it's going to be? Keep the core of the game riddled with bugs and release finished expansions just to maintain an "early access" title so they can fall back on that if the poop ever hits the fan?

Expansions are fine in my book. I'll pay $20 for each one; I don't care. Hell, if they made some multi-verse where expansion Arks made up some kind of web-like system of worlds that you can use obelisks to transfer to/from, I think that'll be bad ass.

But please stop our dino's from vanishing in the core game. Do something about bodies falling through floors/maps. Fix dedicated servers. I could list many of the other bugs but I'm sure you get the picture.

And I get it. They teased the desert biome for a couple of months. Cool, thanks WC; you clued us in. But I'm sure many players assumed that the desert biome would be part of the Island in order to get the desert creatures in to the map. It was assumed that the biome would be added to the core game as an additional step to completion.

I know what you're going to say. You're going to harp on how this is an EA title, we shouldn't assume what the dev's are doing/thinking, yadda-yadda. You're right on all points, absolutely. Who knows? Maybe they'll still hit their winter release date now that they can focus on the core game and these complaints would be all for naught.

Or maybe we'll get an additional snow biome expansion for the low-low price of $19.99! Right on time for Christmas; tame Santa Claus and his reindeer's! Use the obelisks to transfer them to the core game! Here's a Santa Hat skin and a Santa Sleigh skin! Here's something ^big _BIG BIGGER!

[LokiTDD]

32 minutes ago, GiggleSnarf said:

Unfinished only by the devs standards. If the announced it as finished and charged full price today. You'd still get more content than almost any game on the market. You complaint of game breaking bugs is understandable, but you lack an understanding of allocated resources. This has nothing to do with them setting aside a specific team to do work that could have been done on the main game. This project was likely more taxing on the art teams. This was about them learning and giving you something extra. If the d3vs felt it would be detrimental to the process of getting the game out, they wouldn't have done it. Your mad that they made a huge expansion and you don't wanna pay.

Not mad in the slightest, just wont buy it. I was on a break waiting for the centre redwood biome but since  we're not getting that any time soon I'll just continue playing the other game i bought from gpp. It is quite different from ark, especially when you consider its now in full release and waited a year after release to put out paid dlc