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Weigh In: Public Beta.. What's Next?


Cedric

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Disable cave building, disable Titans for anything but to kill Alpha Titan. There's a reason cave META is a thing. You caused it, and you have to fix it - by removing stupidly OP stuff from the game. Titans have no place in this game. For next DLC release, I hope you have a test group of PVP players so we don't have OP stuff on release by accident because you want cool PVE features for this game, for PVE players.. That makes game features too strong for PVP players.

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17 minutes ago, nipe said:

Disable cave building, disable Titans for anything but to kill Alpha Titan. There's a reason cave META is a thing. You caused it, and you have to fix it - by removing stupidly OP stuff from the game. Titans have no place in this game. For next DLC release, I hope you have a test group of PVP players so we don't have OP stuff on release by accident because you want cool PVE features for this game, for PVE players.. That makes game features too strong for PVP players.

I feel like they just added a beta server for this purpose 

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The introduction of Extinction was when Cave building became so much part of the PVP meta that exists today but, many changes to the game across the development cycle have also pointed in this direction. This started with the turret limit introduced close to 2 years ago which made 95% of base spots redundant. Increasing the turret limit to 150/200 would definitely make outside bases more viable again and possibly reducing the turret limit slightly in caves? Titans should not be allowed to leave Extinction. Shouldn't even be a debate about this if you want outside bases to become a thing again.

However, Caves are so important to the current game. The need for 200-300 0/0's of each Meta line is one reason for that. No Land base spot can handle the amount of 0/0's needed. Eliminate caves and you will make a large majority of your player base quit. Breeding is one of the most popular parts of the game. 

I agree it is important to encourage land bases but be very careful with any potential nerf to caves or you could well kill the PVP side of the game.

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I feel like a massive boost to turret damage on titans at the very least would go a long way. As for the cave meta for breeding that has been around forever, there is no easy fix for this. Breeding should be embraced as it is the end game that keeps Ark alive for PvP and PvE players alike! The only fix that come to mind is implementing a breeding facility that can store dinos without them being rendered while allowing breeding. It would probably need to be balanced with a cap on storage of dinos and requiring element to run. I would say only females can be stored and all stored females will mate with the closest male.

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First off, people build in caves because it makes sense that if you put hundreds or thousands of hours in to a base and it's defenses, that it should last for AT LEAST as long as the time you spent building it up. Why spend all this time building up when it can be torn down in hours by some bullies slot capping your server with titans, meks, racers, tek tapes etc.

Caves are the logical place to see a return on your investment. 

I've read through the postings on this thread. It's like 90% of the people want to make it easier for people to be raided. HELLO?? There is absolutely NO satisfaction in slotcapping a server where you fight the enemy 60vs10 and wiping their bases. But the game allows it and it's just too easy this way, that's why it's being done by everyone. Where is the skill? where is the strategy? Nah, screw it, let's just zerg and destroy destroy destroy. 

You don't need to nerf caves that hard (it's already 6x in there..). Just take a look at the threats that are driving people in to caves as opposed to building out on the surface :

-Titans with meshable abilities(Groot grab through shields/mesh, Ice titan ice breath through mesh, desert titan lighting through mesh)
-150k Racers with 100 armor saddles (At this point, they're mini titanosaursuses already???)
-Tek tape Zerging.
-Meks.
-Being offline raided.
-Ridiculously small turret limit.

Why not reduce the racer saddle armor like you did with the brontos. How does a racer rider with a 1x1 box around his character, even see where he's going. He shouldn't be able to see. Give the turrets/players a fair chance to shoot/pick the guy off the mount. You can't have a 150k racer with 100 armor saddle tank your turrets and have no weakspot?

Limit tek saddle types per tribe. 2 or 3 of each tek saddle.

Why on earth does a mek shield slow it's enemies? How does that even make sense? Let the mek overcharge more when you shoot it's shield, just like a tek forcefield works. Let it even damage the dura for all I care. There's absolutely no thought pattern behind  atm behind mek shields. Mek see enemy, mek deploy shield without any consequences. 

Make the damn tek turret shoot railgun shots instead of this easily avoidable blue balls. How does it make sense that the tek turret is the most advanced turret you have, yet you can soak it with a naked character by tricking it to shoot the ground or just running back and forth from cover?????
If racers can be mutated to have more hp, why can't we do the same for tek turrets? Give tek turrets a base damage + % of dino CURRENT hp? Then base defenses will scale VERY well with the ever mutating tank race.
Give all turrets the option to choose which enemy to prioritize. E.g. Shoot tek tapes before you shoot racers. Give the defenders MORE options to defend their hard work.

People move to caves because it's difficult to get in a cave. If people are discouraged from raiding your cave base, you get to enjoy the game a lot longer and get more sleep XD. This is a bit off topic, if you don't mind, with regards to players slot capping a server, essentially locking out the players that need to defend their base. Not fair at all.

Give each server an artifact, the tribe that is in  possession of this artifact, has the right to reserve at least 20-30 slots on the server.
So when enemies try to cap the server, they can only occupy 40 slots or so. Whenever a defending tribe member tries to join the server, the server kicks any player that's no in the tribe that has possession of this artifact so that the defender, can defend. This continues till the defending tribe has occupied their 20-30 slots. FFA after that.

Increase the Turret limit by at least double it's now and exclude plant x from that limit (plant x can have 50 - 100 limit on it's own). Increase the explosive cost to destroy structures a little. Give us different ammo types to combat different enemies. Armor piercing for tank dinos, incendiary for flyers, emp shots for meks etc. Clamp player movement speed(140%?) Why did you cap weapon damage at 298% but armor durability is uncapped and is reaching 1.5k dura for flak atm. Try killing a player with a capped fabby, running at 190% movement speed with 1.5k dura flak or 2k dura tek?? maybe in 2 or 3 clips yeah, if you hit every shot. 

Meshbiting.... dinos can't do damage through structures, so why can they do damage through the mesh? Don't you want to look at that
in your quest to fix meshbiting? I don't know, give the mesh structural properties or something.

Caves eliminate the need for excessive turrets. It confines player movement to a combat able pace. You don't have to worry about titans jumping and destroying your structures (they can still use their specials to mesh you though). The real focus should be pvp and sieging. Not this silly slot cap a server and just offline an enemy base. If you can bring that to the surface, people will move out of caves. People want to fly, people want to live on the surface. People want to build beautiful, strong bases on the surface. But the current meta is not allowing that. 




 

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This is what i have been talking forever! I have 11K hours in game and i always said: All the artifacts caves should NOT be able to build by anyone, and Ext Titans should not be uploadable and downloaded to other maps. It is not fair for smaller tribes when alpha mega tribes take control of Ext. Titans and also take control of all the artifact caves, specially caves where you can't fit a trike or a stego. There is a problem with turrets blind points to where they will not target platform dinos like paracer, quetzal, moses, and rafts that can easily wipe a base without getting shot, anyone can build specific thatch structures and wipe you without getting shot.and of course use the hatchframe method which is also broken
 
 
 
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how to change the Meta away from Cave Raiding

The perspective of God: 1. Dont Let Titans be transfered to other Servers then Extinction:

2: Tek saddels doesnt do dmg to non Tek Struckters(including not doing dmg to Tek Turrets)

3: Lets Tek shoots do dmg to the MEk Shilds Dura/ Make real bps for Mek shilds prim 5k dura jorun 8k.

4. Reduce armor on Tank dino saddels

5. Give Racer a weakspot where it takes more Dmg

6. Let Turrets shoot through quetzal strukters and make the rider on the quetz protect from turrets

7. make the snow owl healing like big healing (Food consumtion and at 0 food you cant heal )

8. remove the slow on mek shild debuff

9. if mek shild is up meks do 50% less dmg to struckters

10. Mek Gun dmg to dinos decress

11. decress velo dmg / make turret mode on velo 100dmg but a health buff

12 Tek turrets do % dmg to bigger dinos.

13. give ice wyverns a real frezze and dont let them be frozen  and give wyvern armor saddels at least a bit

14. Make it harder to get muttations MUCH HARDER

15. higher Turret limit to 250 and exclute x plants counting as turrets on outside bases lower them in cave to 50

16. Velos cant be on turret mode in caves

17. Fix Meshbiting

18. outside caves when offiline turrets do 4x times the dmg

19. Dont let allys build to ally strukters

20. Overwork the targeting options from turrets

21. cap dura on flak to 1k dura Riot to 1k Tek 1.5k 

22. give enforcers Saddels

23. Why can you drain Tek turrets naked ? by just running around if they are the most advanst turrets ?

 

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Disable titan transfers. I dont feel that they are fair at all. At the very least, the 15 minute timer in which they are vulnerable needs to be doubled or tripled. Aberration especially needs to have them disa led. 

 

For the caves themselves, half the turret cap. There are so many people talking about changing cave entrances and stuff... I feel like that would ruin the feel of many caves. Reducing the number of turrets that you can put in a cave by half would make them much easier to soak. Another alternative would be to disabled heavies, but then they would just be replaced by tek.

 

The default turret cap on land should be doubled to 200.

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Its pretty simple regarding what to do. The cave meta took off right when you released titans. Theres very little counter play to titans other than basing where they cant go. My tribe are built in a cave specifically because the alphas of our crossark have full control of extinction and thus, the titans. you cant release incredibly broken things, make then stupid easy to acquire. then wonder why people hide in caves. But at the same time, disabling cave building cripples the smaller tribes as well. Here is a pretty simple solution. Remove turret cap (making a turret cap hasn't done squat for the lag anyways). instead make the turrets follow a "master" turret. So in short every 10 or 20 turrets actually only follow 1 target scan. Option #2. Fix your meshing problem. Pearl cave on center cant be meshed due to the killzone all around it. surface bases are incredibly easy to mesh. Solutions? One thing that will help a lot is removing titans. They honestly have no purpose in PvP other than making the bigger tribes even more untouchable. Remember tameable broodmother? Yeah, now broodmother can fly. and in the future, play test the pvp of new releases that will completely cripple the current metas. The idea isn't to nerf caves, because caves, like every other base, can be taken down with enough resources and time. Give people a reason to leave the caves. Turret cap inside caves, while using the method above, uncap surface bases. Maybe make one of the current dinos have c4 untargetable on them while they are in caves such as carbos.
Tldr: Remove tameable titans, remove turret cap but make nearby turrets follow a master turret for targeting. Test your additions to the game before adding them (did you not learn from broodmother). Give turtles the ability to carry c4 untargeted in caves.

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I think something that may be an interesting idea would be to have a new building tier of structures that are environment dependent. Maybe like a steel tier that erodes over time quickly because of, "dampness" inside caves and has no resistances, but holds fairly well outside of caves in open areas and maybe has an increased resistance to titans. Maybe that would help supplement some of the other ideas suggested in the responses here.

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My tribe lived on the Island with a 100 turret limit before we got to heavy turrets and tek we got wiped in 5 mins by a desert titan, then we built again with heavies and tek then we got wiped again by titans, now we live in a cave.

We are on a cluster where both extinctions are held by hostile tribes so we do not have access to meks and titans.

Caves are not unraidable, tribes have hundreds if not 1000's of throw away soaker tames in pods for raiding such caves.

If you force tribes out of caves which is the only defence they have against titans and big tribes then you may as well wipe all the servers as it will be an easy wipe for a titan/meks/big tribes while being rebuilt in an easy raid position.

There is no need to change the entrances to caves as they still get raided due to the introduction of cryopods.

Without bases caves serve no purpose as pretty much any capable tribe or player can get the artifacts from the caves easy or just go to Ragnarok and get the artifacts easily and bring them back to the Island or where ever.

You keep changing things to TRY and balance the game yet you destroy a working meta that all players are dealing with and is working.

CAVES ARE NOT UNRAIDABLE

 

We have spent the last 6 months building up our cave and defending it multiple times with several breaches, to throw us back on the surface where an offline raid will take a few hours is ridiculous.

Think the no cave meta would lead to all non Alpha/Beta tribes being wiped from servers as the alpha/betas would need to build huge bases on the surface with miles of spam. LET THE LAG COMMENCE

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On 7/25/2019 at 2:16 AM, Cedric said:

 

In the risk sounding to childish, just fix the game in general would be awesome start! About the caves now, just dont allow Titans upload to other servers and put more restrictions in its use! The turret limit to 100 doesnt help a bit with good soakers and healers but being in the cave on x6 damage its already "punishment" enough, if there was double turret limit everyone would reclaim original Alpha spots

FIX DUPING, FIX TITANS

 

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Also forgot to say if you are changing cave base meta then you need to change the skybase meta on Extinction.

 

Also People have always built in caves since the beginning of ark, it is only a problem now because the titans are wiping all above ground bases and so more and more people are building in the caves and fighting for control of the caves, there is no issue with cave building other than titans being able to be transferred.

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To be completely honest, the problem with the cave meta is that in order to build outside of a cave in this current generation of ARK pvp, you have to have at least 35 people online at any given time to stand a chance against "totally legit" tribes. Take a look through ARK at how many tribes actually have above ground bases anywhere that isn't really high up in the air. I can tell you all those bases are trees, ab ceiling, and extinction towers. Very few tribes currently live on the desert mountain plateau on ragnarok. It was very popular before hatch quetzal raiding became meta, and it was allowed because it didn't break the ToS or CoC.  If a tribe could not fill their server with 40 others trying to wait at the drop of a hat, that tribe was as good as dead. I'll admit, my tribe was one of those tribes that couldn't sustain an outdoor base due to our dwindling numbers, so we moved into a cave so we could actually go out and PvP without worrying about our server getting slot capped 68 to 2 and getting completely wiped off the face of ARK. The cave meta is stale I will admit, but not broken as some people suggest. I've raided plenty of caves with people online inside of them defending with a giga biting the mesh. You just have to pick your fights. I just don't think it's fair that one group of people can decide what happens with the game for thousands of people. I don't think once with any changes made to ARK has Wildcard even bothered consulting the largest player base in the game... and it shows. I have never seen anything encouraging Chinese players to voice their opinions, and the casual racism against them is appalling to say the least. Instead of going ahead and making all these crazy changes based off the opinion of a minority group of players, try and involve the majority group. I can tell you now, most of the Chinese players I've spoken to do not like the idea of cave building being removed, and it's pretty damn obvious why. The language barrier for not only Chinese players, but Russian, Korean, and several other nationalities isolates some groups into tribes that play in exclusively one timezone. They literally cannot defend their base when they are sleeping. Other people will push this as "well they should get over it and get better." However, I think removing the only thing really keeping them alive from getting absolutely blitzed while they are offline will reduce the player base. Even if titans were not in the game, the cave building would still be a thing. The cave meta existed before extinction. It's not new, it's just more prominent for tribes that can't slot cap their servers 24/7. I've seen so many small to medium sized tribes build up in caves, and I've wiped them. It's not impossible. Even if they are online. There are literally items and dinosaurs in the game that make cave raiding possible. The only thing that is making cave raiding slightly impossible is obviously giga mesh biting and infinite velonasaurs. It's extremely simple to wipe a cave with no velonasaurs in it. If there are people defending and not mesh biting, just sit there with a bunch of tek railguns. The other day my tribe wiped a carno cave while they had several people online, and it wasn't difficult. You could say they were bad, sure, but we still did it, and they had exactly the same things everyone else in ARK has. If you want to push 80% of your player base into quitting, remove cave building. At this point, it seems like the point of ARK is becoming "survival evolved, but only because evolution is happening through patches to a game that should be completed." How players choose to play the game should honestly not be your problem at all. You have servers for players who have issues with the general official PvP network. Classic PvP for example, eliminates the use of TEK and because of this, cave building is basically non existent. ARKpocalypse for those who keep complaining that ARK needs a wipe. Instead of changing the current game mode, you should consider fixing the issues with the game that hurt it. Meshing, duping, aimbotting, and general bug exploiting are what force us into the cave meta, and even then living in a cave isn't that safe. You still have to be online 24/7.

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Just like everyone else is saying the main reason I think people live in caves is cause of titans so my Idea isthat titans should just be removed are nerfed a lot so you can’t just fly up to a pillar base and wipe it in minutes, I also think that it just all around ruins the vibe of playing cause you know any second that all the hours spent grinding metal and bullets and turrets.... etc could be gone in minutes by one Dino

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Rather than changing caves why not question whats driven people to caves? Titans, platform Quetzal raiding, Turret limits, Meks being over-powered. If the original meta wasn't so broken by things like titan and mega tribes attacking with 20 meks which can shield themselves then you wouldn't have everyone cowering in caves. Fix titans, meks etc and youll see people living on the surface again.. Please don't change caves. They have remained more or less the same for years.. its other factors that have changed.

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To get people out of the caves i suggest you do the following:
-disable large hatchframes on platform saddles
-make it so people can download only 1 titan at a time and when it dies they can download another (but same titans would still have 6h cooldown beetwen each download)
-and to make other servers as interesting as extinction you should make normal titan uploadable and make it download with no food and starve in cca 30min like other titans
-very good would be some notifications on email if someone downloads titan on your server
-and you should make something for people with no tek to defend versus titans because right now the most viable defense are meks and tek turrets

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