johnm81 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I have a concern about the Reaper King. And that is of the lack of apparent counter play vs flying dinos. While the Kings stats and kibble needs for imprinting are lack luster, its pvp utility right click move is just insanely OP. 1-2 of these guys can literally shut down a massive airspace around them with little to no counter play. A single hit of its fast moving projectile (which has no drop thus easy to aim) drops a flier. There is no counter pay that I know of. Once hit they can chain snare you so you can never take off again. So its one and done. You are dead. Now I agree fliers are over the top in pvp right now, but solutions should be added that have some degree of counter play. Wouldn't it have been better if it was a stacking debuff? Each hit give a 15 second debuff. After three stacks, then you are dropped? Am I wrong here? What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexManRex Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Yeah I agree it is overpowered at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banggugyangu Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, johnm81 said: I have a concern about the Reaper King. And that is of the lack of apparent counter play vs flying dinos. While the Kings stats and kibble needs for imprinting are lack luster, its pvp utility right click move is just insanely OP. 1-2 of these guys can literally shut down a massive airspace around them with little to no counter play. A single hit of its fast moving projectile (which has no drop thus easy to aim) drops a flier. There is no counter pay that I know of. Once hit they can chain snare you so you can never take off again. So its one and done. You are dead. Now I agree fliers are over the top in pvp right now, but solutions should be added that have some degree of counter play. Wouldn't it have been better if it was a stacking debuff? Each hit give a 15 second debuff. After three stacks, then you are dropped? Am I wrong here? What am I missing? 1: Reaper stats aren't lackluster and imprint kibble isn't difficult. It's a smaller list than the island. 2: reapers aren't without counter. Don't try using fliers and bring a charge light pet. 3: Yutyrannus also completely negate the armor bonus as well as causing increased damage taken. 4: use irregular flight patterns to close the gap if you're using a flier. The project travels very slowly, and it's fairly easy to evade. 5: A small pack of allos will deal a significant amount of damage due to the bleed effect. 6: Charge light pets. Reapers are strong, but they have their counters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanus8 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 It's not exactly "easy" to hit a flyer with the cocoon attack, it has a shorter range then it looks and the projectile is similar in speed to poison wyverns if not slower plus you have a one or two second delay before firing as it does the animation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzamaniac Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 hours ago, johnm81 said: I have a concern about the Reaper King. And that is of the lack of apparent counter play vs flying dinos. While the Kings stats and kibble needs for imprinting are lack luster, its pvp utility right click move is just insanely OP. 1-2 of these guys can literally shut down a massive airspace around them with little to no counter play. A single hit of its fast moving projectile (which has no drop thus easy to aim) drops a flier. There is no counter pay that I know of. Once hit they can chain snare you so you can never take off again. So its one and done. You are dead. Now I agree fliers are over the top in pvp right now, but solutions should be added that have some degree of counter play. Wouldn't it have been better if it was a stacking debuff? Each hit give a 15 second debuff. After three stacks, then you are dropped? Am I wrong here? What am I missing? Reapers? Lackluster stats? Huh? I like it, it gives a solid counter to that flying deathbeam that is a lightning wyvern. Just dont hover in one spot for too long and dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Varanus8 said: It's not exactly "easy" to hit a flyer with the cocoon attack, it has a shorter range then it looks and the projectile is similar in speed to poison wyverns if not slower plus you have a one or two second delay before firing as it does the animation. Its actually not hard at all for those without potato aim. The shot is actually a shotgun type blast. The animation doesn't affect the aim as the actual 'aim' is taken at the point of projectile release. So as the animation is winding up just continue to track and lead your target and your shot will be true. The projectile range is much longer than wyvern fire breath, lightening breath, or turret range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Wazzamaniac said: Reapers? Lackluster stats? Huh? I like it, it gives a solid counter to that flying deathbeam that is a lightning wyvern. Just dont hover in one spot for too long and dodge. One strafe and you are done. No hovering required and you will be downed. Are you suggesting the counter play to this easy to aim long range shotgun type projectile(s) is for the least maneuverable flier to maneuver out of the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzamaniac Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, johnm81 said: One strafe and you are done. No hovering required and you will be downed. Are you suggesting the counter play to this easy to aim long range shotgun type projectile(s) is for the least maneuverable flier to maneuver out of the way? I mean, the shots arent that fast... Sure, it's punishing. Then again you should probably consider backup plans than just a flyer if you see the others have a reaper. A giga would cream it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said: I mean, the shots arent that fast... Sure, it's punishing. Then again you should probably consider backup plans than just a flyer if you see the others have a reaper. A giga would cream it. I think you and I would both agree that fliers will be over the top and need more counter play. My point is adding elements with no counter play isn't the answer to the current flier domination that many would fairly say had no counter play in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banggugyangu Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 hours ago, johnm81 said: One strafe and you are done. No hovering required and you will be downed. Are you suggesting the counter play to this easy to aim long range shotgun type projectile(s) is for the least maneuverable flier to maneuver out of the way? 3/4 projectiles are guaranteed to not go in the direction you're aiming. the last is a toss up. It's not even remotely OP.. Anyone who actually thinks it is just doesn't understand how to counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, banggugyangu said: 3/4 projectiles are guaranteed to not go in the direction you're aiming. the last is a toss up. No judgement on your on your aim here friend but that is a problem I have never had. sorry lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerbilRex Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, johnm81 said: No judgement on your on your aim here friend but that is a problem I have never had. sorry lol. yeah aim? If you're not pointing at the sky they'l probably hit something. Not recommended when everyone's in close quarters. (I speak from experience) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzamaniac Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 43 minutes ago, johnm81 said: No judgement on your on your aim here friend but that is a problem I have never had. sorry lol. It depends on server lag, I think, or some external factor. Until VERY recently, the king tail shot was bugged, and aal of the shots except SOMETIMES one would fly behind you in a 120° arc. It was impossible to aim. Now its more of a tight grouped cluster that actually works. Also, your argument is that adding a counter to something uncounterable is a bad thing. What? Reapers have loads of counters. Rexes can overpower them, gigas definitely will, you can shoot them etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said: It depends on server lag, I think, or some external factor. Until VERY recently, the king tail shot was bugged, and aal of the shots except SOMETIMES one would fly behind you in a 120° arc. It was impossible to aim. Now its more of a tight grouped cluster that actually works. Also, your argument is that adding a counter to something uncounterable is a bad thing. What? Reapers have loads of counters. Rexes can overpower them, gigas definitely will, you can shoot them etc. I am not saying Reaper kings have no counters. I am saying that if you are on a flyer, you have no counter play to some guy shooting reaper snot at you. Its too easy of a thing to do with far too much effect. Ideally counters should be reliant on the skill of player A vs player B. And less on which dino they are on and if that dino has an IWin button vs another dino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzamaniac Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 2 hours ago, johnm81 said: I am not saying Reaper kings have no counters. I am saying that if you are on a flyer, you have no counter play to some guy shooting reaper snot at you. Its too easy of a thing to do with far too much effect. Ideally counters should be reliant on the skill of player A vs player B. And less on which dino they are on and if that dino has an IWin button vs another dino. You could argue flyers picking you off was initially that "i win" button before reapers were added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banggugyangu Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 5 hours ago, johnm81 said: I am not saying Reaper kings have no counters. I am saying that if you are on a flyer, you have no counter play to some guy shooting reaper snot at you. Its too easy of a thing to do with far too much effect. Ideally counters should be reliant on the skill of player A vs player B. And less on which dino they are on and if that dino has an IWin button vs another dino. Wait... You're saying that fliers should have a counter to the Dino that is almost specifically a ground to air Dino? It's intentionally supposed to be a counter to fliers. "Why do I keep losing air cover to anti-air artillery?!" you, sir, would make a terrible general.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banggugyangu Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I'm just gonna go ahead and call this one. This dude tried using his favorite flier in a PvP war, saw a reaper, thought, "I'm invincible on my wyvern!" and lost it so now he's salty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/25/2018 at 11:44 PM, banggugyangu said: Wait... You're saying that fliers should have a counter to the Dino that is almost specifically a ground to air Dino? It's intentionally supposed to be a counter to fliers. "Why do I keep losing air cover to anti-air artillery?!" you, sir, would make a terrible general.... Good analogy. Aircraft do have "counter play" to anti-aircraft artillery in real life. Stealth tech, air to ground ordnance, flares, high alt maneuvering. "you, sir, would make a terrible general....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/25/2018 at 11:49 PM, banggugyangu said: I'm just gonna go ahead and call this one. This dude tried using his favorite flier in a PvP war, saw a reaper, thought, "I'm invincible on my wyvern!" and lost it so now he's salty. Nope. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/25/2018 at 8:38 PM, Wazzamaniac said: You could argue flyers picking you off was initially that "i win" button before reapers were added. I agree picking was making flyers OP and lacked enough counter play. Balance isn't made by just adding more features without counter play. That just makes new problems instead of fixing old ones. They should have added special saddles that had a resistance to picking but had some other negatives associated with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banggugyangu Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 9 hours ago, johnm81 said: Good analogy. Aircraft do have "counter play" to anti-aircraft artillery in real life. Stealth tech, air to ground ordnance, flares, high alt maneuvering. "you, sir, would make a terrible general....." High altitude maneuvering trumps a reaper. It will not hit you if you're at a high altitude. Flares aren't applicable and the projectile isn't homing anyway, so moot point. Air to ground ordinance.... Lightning and poison wyvern? Both allow for air to ground damage at a range that will provide easy evasion of the projectiles. Stealth tech.... Rock drakes. You also keep trying to claim that reapers have no counter play... They do. I listed them above. The counter, however, is not throwing the Dinos they directly counter at them. Also, you haven't posted anything that suggests you aren't just salty about underestimating someone on a reaper. Reapers are strong, but they're easy to counter. Learn how before you complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm81 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 6 hours ago, banggugyangu said: High altitude maneuvering trumps a reaper. It will not hit you if you're at a high altitude. Flares aren't applicable and the projectile isn't homing anyway, so moot point. Air to ground ordinance.... Lightning and poison wyvern? Both allow for air to ground damage at a range that will provide easy evasion of the projectiles. Stealth tech.... Rock drakes. You also keep trying to claim that reapers have no counter play... They do. I listed them above. The counter, however, is not throwing the Dinos they directly counter at them. Also, you haven't posted anything that suggests you aren't just salty about underestimating someone on a reaper. Reapers are strong, but they're easy to counter. Learn how before you complain. Do you usually struggle at understanding context of replies this much? You brought up modern day aircraft and anticraft as a poor example that didnt convey what you wanted it to . But now in an infantile manner with nothing else to say you resort to dismissing the post as someone who had a bad outcome with a pvp reaper. Which is false by the way. I was on the reaper enjoying how broken the mechanic is bit also realizing game health and balance ismore important than my pvp outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banggugyangu Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 8 hours ago, johnm81 said: Do you usually struggle at understanding context of replies this much? You brought up modern day aircraft and anticraft as a poor example that didnt convey what you wanted it to . But now in an infantile manner with nothing else to say you resort to dismissing the post as someone who had a bad outcome with a pvp reaper. Which is false by the way. I was on the reaper enjoying how broken the mechanic is bit also realizing game health and balance ismore important than my pvp outcome. I dismissed your post as such because you completely ignored my post that clearly states the reaper's counter play. You even made the claim in your OP that reapers have no counters. My list was not far below that. I'll sum it up in 2 sentences for you: Bring a charge pet. Don't Fly. It's a direct counter to flying dinos. If you're going to bring a flying dino, use a lightning or poison wyvern, as those have the best chance of actually doing anything. The poison is obviously your best bet, though, as it can easily kill the rider if he's not wearing a gas mask or hazard helmet. The lightning, admittedly, is just going to be a little mosquito until someone gets charge in range. Other than that, any capable carnivore + charge light will shred a reaper. They have high health and high base damage, but a single boss rex will outdo a reaper that didn't win the lottery of stat rolls. Allos and gigas will demolish them (allos in a pack offer bleed damage that isn't affected by the natural armor). My point still stands, learn how to counter them before you complain. Reapers are strong, but they're far from OP. You just went up against one on the dino they are specifically meant to counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkin Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 On 2/25/2018 at 10:33 AM, johnm81 said: I have a concern about the Reaper King. And that is of the lack of apparent counter play vs flying dinos. While the Kings stats and kibble needs for imprinting are lack luster, its pvp utility right click move is just insanely OP. 1-2 of these guys can literally shut down a massive airspace around them with little to no counter play. A single hit of its fast moving projectile (which has no drop thus easy to aim) drops a flier. There is no counter pay that I know of. Once hit they can chain snare you so you can never take off again. So its one and done. You are dead. Now I agree fliers are over the top in pvp right now, but solutions should be added that have some degree of counter play. Wouldn't it have been better if it was a stacking debuff? Each hit give a 15 second debuff. After three stacks, then you are dropped? Am I wrong here? What am I missing? What? The reaper is hard as F%^& to hit anything not close to you. Flyers need something on the ground that can ruin their day. They have ruled the game for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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