How can people be so unsympathetic

[TheSnives]

 I play single player, so it's such a foreign concept to me that people will bully other players out of the server. I always see these stories about how a new player joins an official, they say something on the chat, then the alphas come and literally target the new player just to bully them into quitting. Why are alpha tribes so scared of letting a single player progress on "their" server? If alphas are so scared to lose their stuff then why don't they play on PvE servers? All these posts about alphas being jerks and wiping players who pose no threat make the alphas sound like complete d-bags who play ark non-stop. I don't mean to insult the alphas I'm just genuinely confused as to why people are this mean and petty. So please, if you're on an "alpha" tribe then please tell me why you do these things. Are you doing it so you don't have to worry about losing your stuff or are you just doing it because you like to hurt others. If I sound really mean or arrogant I'm sorry, I don't mean it, but I want to have a nice, intelligent conversation on why and how people can be so mean. 

P.S. I didn't mean to post this in the SE General forms I wanted post it in the regular General forms so if a moderator sees this could you move the post to the General forms cuz I don't know how to (or if I even can).

[SirRynomyte]

I second that question. I have recently witnessed a large tribe on my PVE scorched earth server kiting Elementals to various bases. I called them out on it and made myself a target. I seriously don't understand the mindset someone would have to be in to just decide to ruin someone's gameplay. I understand PVP is PVP, but if someone poses no threat what is the point. 

[RYN371]

I believe that games, in general but online especially, often bring out in people the desire for freedom, and consequently, domination, for lack of a better word.

 

All animals possess a degree of competitive spirit.  Humans, as animals, are not exempt from this, and as anyone else who has worked with nonhuman primates can tell you, primates can be mean as &#$%^@.  Many animals can behave this way.  It's an important part of the success of primate evolution especially to want to be the top dog, and beating down your competitors is a great way to strut your stuff and maintain your power.  Having a strong leader can help insure the success of your troop, and therefore your species, and being in the top of the troop also has the advantage in a great many species of guaranteeing that you get to spread your genes to as many females as will present their rump to you.  It is quite literally basic.

 

Perhaps to help understand, think for a moment of a time when you felt helpless in a situation.  Wouldn't it have been so wonderful if you could have (literally or figuratively) thumped your chest, roared, and risen above whatever it may be by whatever means you please?  Whether it may have been beating into the ground a bully in school, cussing out a dufus until they're brought to tears for almost running you off the road while texting, or laying waste to digital humans and dinosaurs for daring to set foot in "your territory"...  Certainly, in a digital world, where there is most likely no actual risk to your physical person, it can be very easy to go into Darth Vader mode and destroy whoever or whatever stands in your way.

 

We may not choose to admit it, but it is nonetheless true.

[Pewpreme]

Because we're all assholes inside.

[TheSnives]

I was reading a few more posts about alpha tribes and the things they do. It's really interesting to me how seriously the alphas are about the game. I was reading about alphas monitoring other servers through websites and computer scripts, how they look for low population servers to raid and things like that. But then a post said something like "some alphas are duping just to keep up with other alpha tribes", and this gave me an interesting idea. Most people look at ark like a normal game, they don't take the game too seriously and they stick to their own server. However, it seems like the alphas are playing a different game. Their game is not about being nice and playing with dinos, their game is about competing with other alpha tribes across multiple servers. I guess you can look at it like countries. The server is the country and the alphas are the most powerful force, therefore they take over the country. They enforce their rules and take out anyone they see as a threat (which is almost everybody). However, the alphas want to expand their territory and "conquer" other countries, aka servers. So, in a way, the alphas are just acting as a country, and since there are no police or any rules for war (Like there are in the real world), then there's nothing stopping them from committing the real life equivalent of war crimes. So perhaps the alphas are jerks because they aren't worrying about playing the game fairly or being nice, they're worrying about competing with the other "countries" and want to be strong enough to wage war against other alpha tribes, and if that means exploiting glitches or being total jerks then so be it.

Now some of my thoughts may be a bit extreme (alphas are not actually committing genocide and war crimes, nor are they evil dictators), but I just thought this was an interesting analogy we could make in order to better understand the terrible behavior of the alphas. It's also kinda funny that we're treating the alphas like they're an alien race or something and are trying to study their behavior. So if you're an alpha and want to tell us why you guys do that stuff please tell us cuz I doubt your motives are purely evil and I bet you guys are really nice irl.

[RYN371]

I have heard, on the contrary, that many alphas "commit genocide" (i.e., wipe the server constantly) and are "evil dictators" (i.e., self explanatory).

 

I can identify with the primitive or Mandalorian concept of waging war to demonstrate one's power, and the thrill of doing so.  But, if I were an alpha, I don't think I would be a meatbag about it.

[johnm]

Unless one has a highly developed consciousness, one's behavior is mainly motivated by immediate incentives,
namely rewards and punishments. The structure of the game is such that being nice bears considerable risks
with little in game reward. On the other hand deceit, theft, degenerate warmongering, hurting innocents and
destroying their achievements is rewarded with little to non existent payback.
In real life raiding parties took the serious risk of a one way ticket to Valhalla.
There is no such thing in Ark raiding. Do you think a mega tribe cares if they lose a giga or a bronto?
The things I see in Ark make me suspect that a touch of sadism runs in the background at the top
levels of the development team.

[kitvor]

Official PvP servers suck because the bigger piece of dino dung you are, the bigger the rewards you get. WC will never do anything about this because that's how PvP works in a persistent world. They'd patched to take away obscenely unfair advantages, but at the end of the day... Welcome to ARK PvP. That's the game. 

[Serious]

It's all down to control lust for power and elitism. "We're bigger than anyone else, we can do whatever we want, we will do whatever we want."

There are no penalties for bad behaviour, so the result is what you see.

They are really little boys playing 'Lord of the Flies.'

[Ulta]

Why are alpha's A-holes? Cause the game is catered to such a playstyle...

And to think THAT is the actual game WC made...a game that reward's being an arsehole more than being a civilized person who can enjoy a virtual spat on even terms...HA!

A real shame because Ark can be so much more...just look at PVE and even unofficials with mods...this game's promise lies in the PVE side of it...not with the heavily unbalanced PVP officials that they coddle to. I like Ark for what it can provide OUTSIDE of their vision, and will never recommend a new player to an official server in it's current state.

Sad truth too is...WC ain't gonna change it either...they've locked themselves into it by making the PVP official basically their flagship game mode on their game cover and Steam description. Their officials doomed to die if they keep it up, and will only be held afloat by the unofficials. Just watch.

[RazerX]

Threads like this make me glad I've only played Single Player.  Caveman style, me against the Dino's.  

[Guest BubbaCrawfish]

On 7/7/2017 at 5:32 AM, TheSnives said:

It's really interesting to me how seriously the alphas are about the game. I was reading about alphas monitoring other servers through websites and computer scripts, how they look for low population servers to raid and things like that. But then a post said something like "some alphas are duping just to keep up with other alpha tribes", and this gave me an interesting idea.

First off, it's not the alphas stating how serious they are about the game... That's from those who have been wiped.

Second, Maybe they do monitor servers and track people, but again, that's all from those who have been wiped.

And same with the duping.

 

You've really got to watch who you're listening to about this situation... It's rather complex.


If though, that you were playing online and everything you had was vulnerable, and you noticed people starting to really come in and play, you'd be highly likely to spend more time on, check those who are coming out, and assess what their intentions are.

Many don't check intentions, but rather proactively remove the potential threat in the beginning... Literally a 'nip it in the bud' situation. It's better to deal with it early, rather than letting them get established.

[Jognt]

On 7/7/2017 at 4:47 AM, RYN371 said:

I can identify with the primitive or Mandalorian concept of waging war to demonstrate one's power, and the thrill of doing so.  But, if I were an alpha, I don't think I would be a meatbag about it.

It is exactly for this reason that you are not an alpha. And it's the same reason why I never was interested in being alpha.

Those who seek power, seek it for a reason. Those of us that see no reason to be in power and just want to get along, don't feel motivated to get/stay in power.

In short, those in power will (almost) always be those that seek to do harm with that power, otherwise they wouldn't have had the motivation to get/stay in power.

[Mikatwix]

There are many Alphas Not Bad . Many Alphas that hunt Bad Alphas .. only the People that are Happy with There Alphas are Not writing in Forums so much. Search for good Alphas . There are many

[RYN371]

13 hours ago, Jognt said:

It is exactly for this reason that you are not an alpha. And it's the same reason why I never was interested in being alpha.

I must interject that this is not the reason I am not an alpha.

 

There are at least a couple of factors that come into play.  Perhaps most relevant is that I'm alone.  I will never be an alpha without a tribe.  I'm not optimistic about joining one, for the dream team that was my old clan has left my standards much too high, and for much the same reason, I'm not optimistic about attempting to start one of my own, especially when it is difficult to trust that someone won't eventually just steal everything they can and jump ship.  Of course, after some 15 years of the same clan, you might imagine it hard to join up with anyone else.  I've been trying to get the old crew to play the game, but no one seems interested.

 

Second, I don't have much time to play.  When I was in high school, I had lots of time - relatively few obligations.  No doubt, that played a large part in my success as a young gamer, beside the fact that I found myself among others of exceptional ability and mind.  Now, I have a wife, a daughter, and a business to run with unpredictable hours and no days off, and which includes about 150 actual, living animals to care for, including designing, constructing, and maintenance of enclosures, and in between, driving for hours daily to get from one job to another.  Funny, though, that I often spend what free time I have on some evenings doing animal care in Ark's digital world.  I digress.  But, I surmise that even if I had more time, and I got some of the old clan together, I know their struggle with time is similar to my own, and our success would therefore likely be limited, given the typical demands of this game, on an official server especially.

 

But, more on topic, I must say furthermore that I don't believe not being a meatbag would necessarily result in being dethroned.  It is true that the best way to win, and I mean this generally, is to utterly destroy your opponent as soon and as quickly as possible.  Being merciful can certainly get you into trouble, and when it comes to an individual battle, it is certain that mercy has no place there.  But, cutting some slack doesn't guarantee that you'll lose, in the end.  Again, this is for the most part universal.

[powertrip9000]

First off there are no Alpha's on PVE, I prefer to call em beta's lol. Some of em on pve keep the server cleaned out of jerk players to keep the server from becoming a ***tshow. There are the jerks though. but there are ways to keep yourself from becoming a victim. 

[Jognt]

10 hours ago, RYN371 said:

I must interject that this is not the reason I am not an alpha.

 

There are at least a couple of factors that come into play.  Perhaps most relevant is that I'm alone.  I will never be an alpha without a tribe.  I'm not optimistic about joining one, for the dream team that was my old clan has left my standards much too high, and for much the same reason, I'm not optimistic about attempting to start one of my own, especially when it is difficult to trust that someone won't eventually just steal everything they can and jump ship.  Of course, after some 15 years of the same clan, you might imagine it hard to join up with anyone else.  I've been trying to get the old crew to play the game, but no one seems interested.

 

Second, I don't have much time to play.  When I was in high school, I had lots of time - relatively few obligations.  No doubt, that played a large part in my success as a young gamer, beside the fact that I found myself among others of exceptional ability and mind.  Now, I have a wife, a daughter, and a business to run with unpredictable hours and no days off, and which includes about 150 actual, living animals to care for, including designing, constructing, and maintenance of enclosures, and in between, driving for hours daily to get from one job to another.  Funny, though, that I often spend what free time I have on some evenings doing animal care in Ark's digital world.  I digress.  But, I surmise that even if I had more time, and I got some of the old clan together, I know their struggle with time is similar to my own, and our success would therefore likely be limited, given the typical demands of this game, on an official server especially.

 

But, more on topic, I must say furthermore that I don't believe not being a meatbag would necessarily result in being dethroned.  It is true that the best way to win, and I mean this generally, is to utterly destroy your opponent as soon and as quickly as possible.  Being merciful can certainly get you into trouble, and when it comes to an individual battle, it is certain that mercy has no place there.  But, cutting some slack doesn't guarantee that you'll lose, in the end.  Again, this is for the most part universal.

Oh, but it is why you're not an alpha. I understand that you have your reasons as to why you're not in a huge tribe, can't play much, etc. Those reasons are probably the same as mine.
But the simple fact is that those that crave power have a reason to join a huge tribe, play much, basically do as much as they can to gain power.

So yeah, it is in fact the reason why we're not alpha.

There *are* friendly alpha tribes out there, more often than not those tribes started to seek power so that nobody would have the power to harass them again. This sort of defensive motivation will never last as long as an offensive motivation though, so it is a lot more likely for an alpha tribe to have bad intentions.

It's just simple psychology

[ShawnWolf]

Dude. That's how PVP is. Do you play other shooter games? Same kind of poop happens on there.

Can't even play a match of Call of Duty without someone calling you the N word for killing them. Lol

[Insomniak]

They developed ark pvp to mimic real life when a group of strangers were meshed together on a daily basis. The 'asshole' effect is working as intended. Btw they did a marvelous job in my humble opinion. look at the way native isolated tribes reacted to outsiders in the recent melennium. Greet you? Sure maybe. Lucky ones were just beheaded and not chopped up for dinner. 

[TheUglyPrince]

I was part of an alpha tribe a long ass time ago.

The only time they showed kindness to some noobs it almost got them wiped. Despite their ruthlessness nature they were good people/friends and not a-holes as you would think... they just didn't take risks anymore.  I found it difficult to be so ruthless myself but I was just a farmer/gatherer so I rarely ever got my hands dirty.

 [I ended up going to pve because pvp was just not for me, it really does take a certain mindset to stay on top and I don't have that mindset]

[Guest BubbaCrawfish]

This guy knows... It happens... You show kindness, and you show weakness.

[InfectionPromoter]

Just for a heads up, I'm not in an alpha, nor have I ever been in an alpha.

The problem with letting people join and build up, is the could eventually challenge the alpha.  Even if it "looks like" 20 individual lone wolf players.........who's to say that's not a 20 person clan all in Discord together.  Build a little, act friendly, build a little more, help the alpha, build a little more..............then massive offline raid the alpha.  The risk outweighs any possible reward.

I wish it was different, but that's how the game's mechanics work.  To be an alpha, you have to keep players off your server.  Or you risk losing your alpha status.