TimeSpiral Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, mronemanmob said: Do you feel like some of the player base should stop pushing for wipes for the sake of the people who pay attention to what Wildcard actually says about not "not wiping". Or do you feel like if they keep pushing/crying for it, that it is possible that they will give in like they did on the quetz platform weight "exploit" that a few were sad about? It's such a fascinating argument, and I believe there are really strong positions on both sides. Consider some of the following: "Hey, man. How'd you get such a huge metal base?" "Oh, Anky farming allowed for 60k metal in one run." "Cool! I want to try that." "Can't. They removed it." "Oh ..." "Hey, man. How'd you fill that room of vaults with metal ingots, rockets, poly, and electronics?" "Oh, I just duplicated the items for free." "Cool! I want to try that." "They removed it." "Oh ..." "How'd you guys become Alpha?" "We hit level 80 first, built a platform saddle, covered our War Quetzal in turrets and plants, and covered two others in a metal box so it was invulnerable." "Wow. Awesome strategy. I want to try that! Wait ... let me guess. I can't." "Nope." "Okay, so ... how am I supposed to compete?" "You can't. But you can try one of these special servers over here for the noobs (but we're using our legacy Alpha status to take those over too, hehehe)" I mean ... It's hard to argue against that. But then you have the other side of the argument: "I worked hard for my stuff. I don't want to lose it all!" But, ironically, these are often the same people that will say, "Hey, man. Can't complain about bugs, lags, and losing stuff. Game's in development, bro. You accepted that when you started." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGCookies Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, TimeSpiral said: It's such a fascinating argument, and I believe there are really strong positions on both sides. Consider some of the following: "Hey, man. How'd you get such a huge metal base?" "Oh, Anky farming allowed for 60k metal in one run." "Cool! I want to try that." "Can't. They removed it." "Oh ..." "Hey, man. How'd you fill that room of vaults with metal ingots, rockets, poly, and electronics?" "Oh, I just duplicated the items for free." "Cool! I want to try that." "They removed it." "Oh ..." "How'd you guys become Alpha?" "We hit level 80 first, built a platform saddle, covered our War Quetzal in turrets and plants, and covered two others in a metal box so it was invulnerable." "Wow. Awesome strategy. I want to try that! Wait ... let me guess. I can't." "Nope." "Okay, so ... how am I supposed to compete?" "You can't. But you can try one of these special servers over here for the noobs (but we're using our legacy Alpha status to take those over too, hehehe)" I mean ... It's hard to argue against that. But then you have the other side of the argument: "I worked hard for my stuff. I don't want to lose it all!" But, ironically, these are often the same people that will say, "Hey, man. Can't complain about bugs, lags, and losing stuff. Game's in development, bro. You accepted that when you started." Good points but being that they will be brand new servers im pretttty sure they will be on there own cluster at least for a while, could be wrong tho also as far as i am aware no recent proof of these vaults full of rockets that were only gained through dupeing just rumors and disgruntled people who got wiped me and my tribemates have made as many as 1000 rockets in a day no exploiting of quetzel's or dupeing items and were only a 5 member tribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeSpiral Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, OGCookies said: Good points but being that they will be brand new servers im pretttty sure they will be on there own cluster at least for a while, could be wrong tho also as far as i am aware no recent proof of these vaults full of rockets that were only gained through dupeing just rumors and disgruntled people who got wiped me and my tribemates have made as many as 1000 rockets in a day no exploiting of quetzel's or dupeing items and were only a 5 member tribe This also seems unlikely, and will be an even more confusing thing for newcomers. "Hey, how come I can only transfer to this handful of new servers? What about all those legacy servers?" Ugh. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGCookies Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, TimeSpiral said: This also seems unlikely, and will be an even more confusing thing for newcomers. "Hey, how come I can only transfer to this handful of new servers? What about all those legacy servers?" Ugh. What a mess. I agree it is a complete mess but i believe WC is trying to do the right thing and comprimise with both sides of wipe/no wipe debate and I cant really think of another way that wont completely leave one side of the argument stiffed, unfortunaltely like ranger has said many times, if it was said from the get-go there would be a wipe before the offical release then most people would have no problem, but they did say with the last complete wipe it would be the last one and people took their word on that and played accordingly.I for one would not have logged in 2700+ hours if i knew it would be gone lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger1 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yes, and that's kind of been my point all along. Taking the "No Wipe" policy at first had little or no downside and made people very happy, but my concern all along has been the problems that arise when you run into those inevitable situations like the one's TimeSpiral pointed out (among others). And yes, they are inevitable when a game is in development. @mronemanmob to be honest I feel like WC has painted themselves into a corner on this... there really isn't a good way out for them in these situations. If they don't wipe when something critical has gone amiss that would be extremely impractical to sort out manually, they are accused of playing favorites and allowing people to profit from exploiting bugs. On the other hand if they do wipe now, to fix serious issues in the game, they are accused of being huge liars and will face the outrage of the masses. There isn't a good solution at this point, which is unfortunate as it could have been easily avoided. Edit: Exactly OG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger1 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Quote I for one would not have logged in 2700+ hours if i knew it would be gone lol You know, I wonder about that though. Well, at least in part. As rapidly as new content has come out for this game, and knowing my own (and other players as well) intense curiosity about and desire to check out that new content, I'm not so sure that a lot of players would have put in "significantly" less time. I'm pretty sure that less time would have been spent on large bases, and possibly breeding projects... but as to the time spent on the day to day stuff... hmmm. Well, no way to know one way or another of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeSpiral Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, ranger1presents said: Yes, and that's kind of been my point all along. Taking the "No Wipe" policy at first had little or no downside and made people very happy, but my concern all along has been the problems that arise when you run into those inevitable situations like the one's TimeSpiral pointed out (among others). And yes, they are inevitable when a game is in development. @mronemanmob to be honest I feel like WC has painted themselves into a corner on this... there really isn't a good way out for them in these situations. If they don't wipe when something critical has gone amiss that would be extremely impractical to sort out manually, they are accused of playing favorites and allowing people to profit from exploiting bugs. On the other hand if they do wipe now, to fix serious issues in the game, they are accused of being huge liars and will face the outrage of the masses. There isn't a good solution at this point, which is unfortunate as it could have been easily avoided. Edit: Exactly OG. Yeah, but, this is where leadership and professionalism comes in. We're consumers. We're fans. We're members of a community. We're not professionals working at WildCard. We don't see demographics, financial projections, we don't see their short and long-term goals in the same way. If leadership determines a wipe would be more beneficial than not, then that's what they do. End of story. I think pandering to your fanbase can be a critical detriment to the quality of a project, because at the end of the day, not only do we all have competing ideas, varied competency levels, wildly different perceptions of what the game actually is, but a large number of us are just complete hacks. And I don't mean that to be pejorative, just being realistic. I'm simply not having the voice of a teen in the room while I'm making business decisions. I'm just not. You get the point ... Have to backtrack on something? Please. Send the message to your PR department and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cels Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 We know for sure they are changing some servers when full release so really, wipes are happening. Unless people forget they said some of the low activity servers are going to be "re-purposed" and your server data will be possible to transfer to singleplayer..Tbh, im sure the majority will be scouting the servers not being wiped to transfer over to. They also said they will have new servers on full release so theres that.. For those that want it, there you go. Those who dont want a wipe. Youll have your old servers. Those that do want it, will have new servers. So whats the complaining about again? If its because they arent wiping now. What would be the point? Youll most likely lose testers and alot of end game bugs will be difficult to find since its all started over. Better to keep the course they are going in imo. To add, they just released a bunch of fresh server clusters.. When the new servers come out. Those who dont want to deal with the overpowered bps that shouldnt be in the game and such will have new servers to go to. Those who spent alot of time and want to keep what they have will have it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGCookies Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 13 minutes ago, TimeSpiral said: Yeah, but, this is where leadership and professionalism comes in. We're consumers. We're fans. We're members of a community. We're not professionals working at WildCard. We don't see demographics, financial projections, we don't see their short and long-term goals in the same way. If leadership determines a wipe would be more beneficial than not, then that's what they do. End of story. I think pandering to your fanbase can be a critical detriment to the quality of a project, because at the end of the day, not only do we all have competing ideas, varied competency levels, wildly different perceptions of what the game actually is, but a large number of us are just complete hacks. And I don't mean that to be pejorative, just being realistic. I'm simply not having the voice of a teen in the room while I'm making business decisions. I'm just not. You get the point ... Have to backtrack on something? Please. Send the message to your PR department and move on. Exactly as you said we don't see those things they do, seeing those things they have made the best business decision possible by keeping the most people happy, before the no wipe announcement it was probally a 50/50 arguement on the no wipe/wipe it seems to be 80% or so are accepting(i would not say happy) the decision made from a business standpoint seems logical leadership has determined that new servers are a better solution and given the stance i would have to agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeSpiral Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, OGCookies said: Exactly as you said we don't see those things they do, seeing those things they have made the best business decision possible by keeping the most people happy, before the no wipe announcement it was probally a 50/50 arguement on the no wipe/wipe it seems to be 80% or so are accepting(i would not say happy) the decision made from a business standpoint seems logical leadership has determined that new servers are a better solution and given the stance i would have to agree I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but what I was saying is that their leadership might be making a mistake by allowing too much community involvement, and that sometimes leadership means making a call for the greater good that those impacted may not have the capacity to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottieboy1794 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 On 12/4/2016 at 6:15 PM, Volcano637 said: I am still amazed by the fact that wildcard will not be wiping all servers on the official release. It's going to end up being a very bad business decision. It shouldn't have anything to do with fair or not fair. This is a beta game. You simply shouldn't be able to keep stuff from a beta to an official release. People are going to pay 60 dollars (which we have not had to btw) to be told hey I know you paid full price but you need to go over to these other servers we made because we had to let these other guys keep their stuff so they don't whine about time they spent on a beta version of the game. think about that. The whiners post on here that people that pay full prices for the game should have to choose from a certain number of new servers so they don't get terrorized by alphas. Really? So the veteran players get full and easy access to all the new servers and the new people don't really unless they want to be at an extreme disadvantage. plus, now being able to transfer anything to anywhere which they newly added that arguement that the whiners use about them going to new servers doesn't work anymore. an official server wipe is just logical. It makes perfect sense. It really doesn't matter how much time you put in. It's time to start over. This game has infinite re-playability. What happened when you got insided? You started over or wiped? You started over, or even had your server wiped by wildcard? Yes you started over. That's what the concept of the game really is about. Starting over. Not getting to keep all your stuff just so you won't cry. as far as these new servers that are coming though, here is a scenario. A new guy buys the game and is a brand new player with no experience. He manages to luckily pick a brand new server that doesn't already have an alpha. He starts picking up rocks and realizes he is dying for some reason and from pure luck he picks some berries. He eats them and realizes that "hey I can eat berries to stay alive" then all of a sudden out of nowhere he looks in the sky and sees this gigantic giga or dragon coming his way. If that wasn't scary enough he notices somebody is riding on the thing. He thinks "wow, that's cool" but right after that he thinks "wow, that damn thing just ate me" and see the thing is that giga or dragon wasn't even from that server. It was someone that transferred it from one of their servers where they were alpha all because he wanted to troll and grieve people. The hard truth is that will happen. And believe me if they don't do a server wipe I will probably be one of those people doing it because that will just be one more server I want to control. i am not whining for either side. My tribe and I have control of multiple servers and believe me once new servers come out we will be transferring multiple drags, gigas, and golems because we like moving to new servers to dominate. Wildcard, hopefully you realize stuff like that is just going to happen. I had hope for the new players but now after you making the servers transfers the way they are, there is little to no hope for the little guy. p.s. Especially with a cloaking device? Tek tier is a hole new level of trolling Here the thing you look at it maybe cause your one of the few who can't stay alive or you don't invest your time to raise a Dino and actually play enough to care but that's ones opinion over another. When you look up to the sky and you see something cool and you want it that's motivation to work hard on getting it or making peace or deals with others to benefit you. I've been playing ark since pc release and Xbox release and I feel there shouldn't be a wipe only cause we didn't put all of our time just for people who wine about not being a wipe. If you don't like the official severs do to people affecting your game play there's alternative options like playing offline or non dedicated servers. The concept would be like what if the IRS came along and said you have to much money it's time to restart you back to 0, you wouldn't be so happy about that now cause you would have to start back to the beginning and work your way back to a good living. If new people join there is always other servers that can or will be friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFaithslayer Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/4/2016 at 6:15 PM, Volcano637 said: I am still amazed by the fact that wildcard will not be wiping all servers on the official release. It's going to end up being a very bad business decision. It shouldn't have anything to do with fair or not fair. This is a beta game. You simply shouldn't be able to keep stuff from a beta to an official release. People are going to pay 60 dollars (which we have not had to btw) to be told hey I know you paid full price but you need to go over to these other servers we made because we had to let these other guys keep their stuff so they don't whine about time they spent on a beta version of the game. think about that. The whiners post on here that people that pay full prices for the game should have to choose from a certain number of new servers so they don't get terrorized by alphas. Really? So the veteran players get full and easy access to all the new servers and the new people don't really unless they want to be at an extreme disadvantage. plus, now being able to transfer anything to anywhere which they newly added that arguement that the whiners use about them going to new servers doesn't work anymore. an official server wipe is just logical. It makes perfect sense. It really doesn't matter how much time you put in. It's time to start over. This game has infinite re-playability. What happened when you got insided? You started over or wiped? You started over, or even had your server wiped by wildcard? Yes you started over. That's what the concept of the game really is about. Starting over. Not getting to keep all your stuff just so you won't cry. as far as these new servers that are coming though, here is a scenario. A new guy buys the game and is a brand new player with no experience. He manages to luckily pick a brand new server that doesn't already have an alpha. He starts picking up rocks and realizes he is dying for some reason and from pure luck he picks some berries. He eats them and realizes that "hey I can eat berries to stay alive" then all of a sudden out of nowhere he looks in the sky and sees this gigantic giga or dragon coming his way. If that wasn't scary enough he notices somebody is riding on the thing. He thinks "wow, that's cool" but right after that he thinks "wow, that damn thing just ate me" and see the thing is that giga or dragon wasn't even from that server. It was someone that transferred it from one of their servers where they were alpha all because he wanted to troll and grieve people. The hard truth is that will happen. And believe me if they don't do a server wipe I will probably be one of those people doing it because that will just be one more server I want to control. i am not whining for either side. My tribe and I have control of multiple servers and believe me once new servers come out we will be transferring multiple drags, gigas, and golems because we like moving to new servers to dominate. Wildcard, hopefully you realize stuff like that is just going to happen. I had hope for the new players but now after you making the servers transfers the way they are, there is little to no hope for the little guy. p.s. Especially with a cloaking device? Tek tier is a hole new level of trolling The devs don't have to wipe the official servers because the super alphas are already in the process of doing it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/9/2016 at 9:51 AM, ranger1presents said: Respectfully no, madfretter, the reason for having at least one wipe during the development phase (the last one usually being right before either the start of open beta or full release) has absolutely nothing to do with leveling the playing field for everyone. Game companies stipulate there will be wipes during EA so that they have the freedom to develop their game quickly and efficiently. So that the inevitable errors hat allow exploits or bugs that grant an advantage to some can be dealt with quickly, instead of wasting time trying to find a work around that makes things "fair" again for everyone. How much development time to you think is lost when a new piece of equipment eats peoples resources instead of working correctly, or when the team finds out that a duplication exploit has been in play for an indeterminate amount of time before being discovered. Simply fixing the issue isn't enough, the damage has already been done... and because you've promised "no wipes" you either wipe anyway and look like a liar... or you waste a tremendous amount of time trying to manually set things right. WC chose to go the somewhat rare "no wipe" route, which does have the advantage of attracting a very large EA base of players... but it also has the disadvantage of being very risky and far less flexible. I fully respect that decision, but I recognize the inherent problems with it as well. As a final note, server wipes are common place at the end of the development phase... and I have yet to hear of a final wipe before open beta or release killing any game.... ever. See now what this guy said is well said! Not the other guy that was complaining and very one sided. This guy looked at both sides of the story and now I can look at both and see the big picture. Good job dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cullis Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/5/2016 at 0:31 AM, CyanicEmber said: Indeed. Officials must be wiped on launch. There is simply no way to gloss over the damage caused by bugs and exploits and no way to level the playing-field for newcomers if we don't. They could very easily make a new server cluster that is not connected to the old one. Or even reserved for a couple of months to people who have bought a copy of Ark post official launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/9/2016 at 10:05 AM, SoapyCreature45 said: If they wipe they lose a lot of respect from the alpha tribes that have been dedicated enough to the game through all the bugs. so keep crying. alphas will all ways come into power and fact is they get weak. so stop being babies about it. I'd be sad if they killed all my babies because you can't catch up. so sad people like this don't care about true ark players that alllwaysre dedicated. go tame some gigas and imprint. make yourself more powerful go to alllwaysre pve server and build up. or get tough and take charge. this gave is for survival. the strongest will always be on top. Businesses don't really care about dedication, they care about money, they already have your money. I feel bad for the people that talk about time spent and dedication. They aren't special and that doesn't make them any more important than anybody else, especially the people that they haven't gotten money from yet. Believe me they are way more important than the dedicated players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 41 minutes ago, Cullis said: They could very easily make a new server cluster that is not connected to the old one. Or even reserved for a couple of months to people who have bought a copy of Ark post official launch. Yes I would see that as the only reason at all to not do an official wipe. But it should be atleast 6 months, not a couple of months. A year would be better or actually permanent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/9/2016 at 10:51 AM, TimeSpiral said: It's such a fascinating argument, and I believe there are really strong positions on both sides. Consider some of the following: "Hey, man. How'd you get such a huge metal base?" "Oh, Anky farming allowed for 60k metal in one run." "Cool! I want to try that." "Can't. They removed it." "Oh ..." "Hey, man. How'd you fill that room of vaults with metal ingots, rockets, poly, and electronics?" "Oh, I just duplicated the items for free." "Cool! I want to try that." "They removed it." "Oh ..." "How'd you guys become Alpha?" "We hit level 80 first, built a platform saddle, covered our War Quetzal in turrets and plants, and covered two others in a metal box so it was invulnerable." "Wow. Awesome strategy. I want to try that! Wait ... let me guess. I can't." "Nope." "Okay, so ... how am I supposed to compete?" "You can't. But you can try one of these special servers over here for the noobs (but we're using our legacy Alpha status to take those over too, hehehe)" I mean ... It's hard to argue against that. But then you have the other side of the argument: "I worked hard for my stuff. I don't want to lose it all!" But, ironically, these are often the same people that will say, "Hey, man. Can't complain about bugs, lags, and losing stuff. Game's in development, bro. You accepted that when you started." So awesome lol I like it when people can look at both sides of the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/9/2016 at 10:54 AM, OGCookies said: Good points but being that they will be brand new servers im pretttty sure they will be on there own cluster at least for a while, could be wrong tho also as far as i am aware no recent proof of these vaults full of rockets that were only gained through dupeing just rumors and disgruntled people who got wiped me and my tribemates have made as many as 1000 rockets in a day no exploiting of quetzel's or dupeing items and were only a 5 member tribe Doubt it. You quetz weight glitched if you actually did make that much that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcano637 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/9/2016 at 11:18 AM, ranger1presents said: You know, I wonder about that though. Well, at least in part. As rapidly as new content has come out for this game, and knowing my own (and other players as well) intense curiosity about and desire to check out that new content, I'm not so sure that a lot of players would have put in "significantly" less time. I'm pretty sure that less time would have been spent on large bases, and possibly breeding projects... but as to the time spent on the day to day stuff... hmmm. Well, no way to know one way or another of course. Another awesome piece of insight ? Good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emiliano297 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Yea, complete wipe all servers and start fresh.. my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustrider Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Just now, Emiliano297 said: Yea, complete wipe all servers and start fresh.. my view. Do you realize what you have done?! *Tries to close Pandora's box* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekoby Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Here we go again..... Edit: On a serious note, please don't wipe servers. *braces for imminent thread war* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KishK0 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Maybe not wipe servers but host some new ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyA Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Just now, KishK0 said: Maybe not wipe servers but host some new ones? People will simply transfer over to the new one with their dinos and structures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacyKoi Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 This has been discussed at length in other threads. Not saying you shouldn't post it again but you'll get all the same opinions and inevitable catfighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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