Housatonic Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 17 minutes ago, TimeSpiral said: It baffles me that such a mega nerf is viewed as "not enough". It's not a nerf, it's a fix. That only fixes the problem for 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ep1cM0nk3y Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, TimeSpiral said: It would be an interesting and difficult argument to convince me that this game has more viable and refined strategies than a decades-long developed meta like Starcraft. It's not even a stab at Ark to suggest that they have a long-long-long way to go before a similarly rich, developed, and balanced meta emerges. I don't know how to tell you this then..SC has a handful of units compared to all the tools at your disposal in Ark. You're still clinging to this false notion of the linear path to power. If everyone thinks like that, then there is no innovation and no creativity to change the meta. There is no "meta" to someone who can constantly adapt.. that's what's great about ark.. you control so much more than an rts like SC.. Sure, that linear path will work against most because most simply can't think or be creative enough to make a change or difference, thus everyone plays by the same "lower standard" and the current "meta" wins out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeSpiral Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said: I don't know how to tell you this then..SC has a handful of units compared to all the tools at your disposal in Ark. You're still clinging to this false notion of the linear path to power. If everyone thinks like that, then there is no innovation and no creativity to change the meta. There is no "meta" to someone who can constantly adapt.. that's what's great about ark.. you control so much more than an rts like SC.. Sure, that linear path will work against most because most simply can't think or be creative enough to make a change or difference, thus everyone plays by the same "lower standard" and the current "meta" wins out.. *shrugs* Okay. 2 hours ago, Housatonic said: It's not a nerf, it's a fix. That only fixes the problem for 20%. *facepalm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulyouth Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 and rip it's not 20% it's really 50% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smash Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 14 hours ago, TimeSpiral said: 20% of 60,000 is 12,000, which is about 10x more than most people's Quetzals can carry right now. It baffles me that such a mega nerf is viewed as "not enough". What is it? Is it because the number 20 looks small compared to big numbers? Is it really that simple? Because it's still 5 times better than just mining it with a pick and putting the ore onto a rhino/bear/stego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRoss Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 player comes on the forum and makes a thread about a game mechanic thats not working as intended (confirmed by the devs) with solid proof and good arguments other alpha player responds with 'cry cry noob just quit your job and become a NEET like the real players or get off officials if you cant handle being blasted to the stoneage' because of said broken mechanic => devs (finally) fix broken game mechanic => alpha player makes thread crying and their only argument is 'but we spent so much time doing it this way, how are we supposed to make a million bullets daily to shoot noobs into the stoneage' please ARK communitu dont you ever change, you provide me with daily laughs! its exactly the same as it was with the platform turrets. i for one love this fix but it should be even more than 20%, maybe if its 100% or if its so that the anky cant harvest anymore when its weight has reached its limit, the game will finally balance out and officials will not be as toxic as they are now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichkater Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, BobRoss said: player comes on the forum and makes a thread about a game mechanic thats not working as intended (confirmed by the devs) with solid proof and good arguments other alpha player responds with 'cry cry noob just quit your job and become a NEET like the real players or get off officials if you cant handle being blasted to the stoneage' because of said broken mechanic => devs (finally) fix broken game mechanic => alpha player makes thread crying and their only argument is 'but we spent so much time doing it this way, how are we supposed to make a million bullets daily to shoot noobs into the stoneage' please ARK communitu dont you ever change, you provide me with daily laughs! its exactly the same as it was with the platform turrets. i for one love this fix but it should be even more than 20%, maybe if its 100% or if its so that the anky cant harvest anymore when its weight has reached its limit, the game will finally balance out and officials will not be as toxic as they are now How will it "balance out"? Now high lvl breeding, farmbase infrastructure and weight quetzals will be important wheras every jackass could make use of an anky + platform. How does a "new tribe" compete against an alpha with 5k weight quetzals, 650% melee ankys and farm bases at every major map location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRoss Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 minute ago, Eichkater said: How will it "balance out"? Now high lvl breeding, farmbase infrastructure and weight quetzals will be important wheras every jackass could make use of an anky + platform. How does a "new tribe" compete against an alpha with 5k weight quetzals, 650% melee ankys and farm bases at every major map location? by having the devs wipe their servers as many have said, they waited way to long to fix this issue. as it is now there is NO WAY for smaller tribes to catch up to the alphas. with or without the exploit being used. i think we can all agree on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedogowl Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Lots of people are saying that everyone is either salty coz they've not got to the stage where they can tame and use a Quetz like this. Well our tribe has, and we do use it. Yeah it's good for building huge bases out of metal etc, but honestly I'd rather not see them used in this way, I think it's weird, feels like an exploit and is a bit immersion breaking. Our server has enhanced rates, which is great for early to mid game, but when the high rates our combined with the Quetz glitch, multiple tribes are mining thousands of resources at once, building preposterous sprawling bases out of metal which I reckon, combined with all the bulk farming slows the server down; maybe if metal was more precious people this would be less of an issue, and the whole meta would change to smaller, better designed bases from metal that are hard to raid or force people that want huge sprawling bases to use cheaper materials like stone, meaning they get wiped/raided more regularly, leading to less cluttered servers running smoother/ on lower end hardware. Obviously that brings up the huge issue to do with existing tribes having used this to build these huge bases and stock pile resources, giving them an advantage over new players to the server. I suspect that's why WC have upped it to 20% initially rather than instantly removing it, as that would leave many people calling for server wipes across all the servers that are running the new patch. Potentially they are planning on creeping it up before a total wipe when the game goes live... Obviously these are just thoughts/opinions and everyone is welcome to their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichkater Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, BobRoss said: by having the devs wipe their servers as many have said, they waited way to long to fix this issue. as it is now there is NO WAY for smaller tribes to catch up to the alphas. with or without the exploit being used. i think we can all agree on that? Well WC said cleary that there will be no wipe b4 release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRoss Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Just now, Eichkater said: Well WC said cleary that there will be no wipe b4 release. whatever they said in the past isnt set in stone, everything can change. i believe they said they didnt expect their to be any more wipes. but if an issue arises, such as this, things may change. i'm not saying they WILL wipe, im saying they COULD and i believe its the right thing to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichkater Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 13 minutes ago, BobRoss said: whatever they said in the past isnt set in stone, everything can change. i believe they said they didnt expect their to be any more wipes. but if an issue arises, such as this, things may change. i'm not saying they WILL wipe, im saying they COULD and i believe its the right thing to do Quote PSA: Official Servers will NOT Wipe on game release! Alright then, I've thought a lot about this, read a lot of commentary on the subject, and understand the time players have been putting into the game. Here is the final word on the matter: we will **not** be wiping the Official Servers on ARK's release (and as mentioned, we will do everything in our power to ever avoid wiping -- we all felt the sting from the launch duping bug all too well). We will keep existing active Official Servers as they are post-ship -- no wipe -- though at ship we may at our discretion re-purpose certain empty or near-empty Official Servers with 1 month prior warning (we'll provide archives to data of such servers if anyone wishes to re-host).. New Servers will be ADDED to help accommodate new players at that time; we can afford it We take the time players put into the game seriously, and we want to reward them for that. The reward is having a *permanent* impact on your ARK, simple as that. Thanks everyone for your support, as we surely do need it. Please spread the word! Regards, Jeremy Stieglitz ARK Lead Designer, Lead Programmer, Development Director, Co-Creative Director, Co-Founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mronemanmob Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 14 minutes ago, Eichkater said: re-purpose certain empty or near-empty Official Servers I wish they would elaborate more on what is considered "near-empty", isn't that MOST servers. They keep splitting everyone up, is █ANY█ server safe from this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunknesmons Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 The repurposing of server will be the wipes. Alpha tribes blows out the server population, in return server is wiped and repurposed. End game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnePotatoChip Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 51 minutes ago, Eichkater said: How will it "balance out"? Now high lvl breeding, farmbase infrastructure and weight quetzals will be important wheras every jackass could make use of an anky + platform. How does a "new tribe" compete against an alpha with 5k weight quetzals, 650% melee ankys and farm bases at every major map location? To be honest? How would those smaller tribes catch up to the alpha anyhow? There are servers where abusive alphas will literally prevent other tribes from taming Quetzals. Once they've seen that you've tamed one or are in the process of taming one, they'll preemptively wipe you. This bottlenecks larger tribes more than it does smaller ones, as they're more likely to have Quetzals in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeSpiral Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 8 hours ago, Smash said: Because it's still 5 times better than just mining it with a pick and putting the ore onto a rhino/bear/stego. Are you suggesting that end-game gathering should be done with pick axes and land-based pack animals? So ... I leave my electrically-defended metal base, with metal armor, guns strapped to my back, and electronic navigation, to then, what--hit a rock with bronze-age tech (i.e., the pick)? Early game: pick. Mid-game: pick. Late game: pick? Really? Come on, Smash. I get it. You lobbied hard for this and probably feel vindicated that you were on the winning side of the argument. Because of WC's behavior, and language, I assumed they left this in intentionally because of how game-breaking it would be to take it out. They all but verified that this was unintended behavior and that's why they are changing it. I changed my position in light of new information, but I do believe the debate on late-game gathering, and how to balance existing mega-tribes is where this thread has now gone. A huge bird with gigantic wings would be able to take advantage of air draft and would be able to create incredible amounts of near-effortless lift. Not that physical logic or realism is needed in this game design question--but wouldn't that help you make sense of a 20% transfer (i.e., 50-97% nerf)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatcherCCG Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Just now, TimeSpiral said: So ... I leave my electrically-defended metal base, with metal armor, guns strapped to my back, and electronic navigation, to then, what--hit a rock with bronze-age tech (i.e., the pick)? Early game: pick. Mid-game: pick. Late game: pick? Really? Come on, Smash. Tek tier. If there isn't a mass-mining apparatus in the Tek tier, then you can use this argument. And I will absolutely agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeSpiral Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Just now, WatcherCCG said: Tek tier. If there isn't a mass-mining apparatus in the Tek tier, then you can use this argument. And I will absolutely agree with it. Well, I will hold you to that. So currently, you agree with me then, correct? Because there is no tek tier, atm. The tek tier we've seen does not include this device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ep1cM0nk3y Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, BobRoss said: player comes on the forum and makes a thread about a game mechanic thats not working as intended (confirmed by the devs) with solid proof and good arguments other alpha player responds with 'cry cry noob just quit your job and become a NEET like the real players or get off officials if you cant handle being blasted to the stoneage' because of said broken mechanic => devs (finally) fix broken game mechanic => alpha player makes thread crying and their only argument is 'but we spent so much time doing it this way, how are we supposed to make a million bullets daily to shoot noobs into the stoneage' please ARK communitu dont you ever change, you provide me with daily laughs! its exactly the same as it was with the platform turrets. i for one love this fix but it should be even more than 20%, maybe if its 100% or if its so that the anky cant harvest anymore when its weight has reached its limit, the game will finally balance out and officials will not be as toxic as they are now So much agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustrider Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, TimeSpiral said: A huge bird with gigantic wings would be able to take advantage of air draft and would be able to create incredible amounts of near-effortless lift. Not that physical logic or realism is needed in this game design question--but wouldn't that help you make sense of a 20% transfer (i.e., 50-97% nerf)? It doesnt really explain why the quetz cant lift the over encumbered anky using the grab function, but the same anky can ride on its back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatcherCCG Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, TimeSpiral said: Well, I will hold you to that. So currently, you agree with me then, correct? Because there is no tek tier, atm. The tek tier we've seen does not include this device. We definitely need a more endgame way of mining, yes, but the anky exploit isn't it. Packing the metal on the quetzal is one thing, but even the super-engineered specimens we have in ARK that can carry houses and turret nests on their backs should not be able to carry a fully-grown living tank that's overburdened to the gills with metal ore. We need something like a mining laser, or even actual air vehicles. Let's have a frickin' ZEPPELIN for Tek tier, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustrider Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 minute ago, WatcherCCG said: We definitely need a more endgame way of mining, yes, but the anky exploit isn't it. Packing the metal on the quetzal is one thing, but even the super-engineered specimens we have in ARK that can carry houses and turret nests on their backs should not be able to carry a fully-grown living tank that's overburdened to the gills with metal ore. We need something like a mining laser, or even actual air vehicles. Let's have a frickin' ZEPPELIN for Tek tier, really. *Dr. Evil voice* I have one simple request and that is to have argys with freakin laser beams attached to their heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ep1cM0nk3y Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 On Friday, November 04, 2016 at 1:17 PM, mronemanmob said: So you think the Alpha tribes complained about quetzal platforms, maybe the almost alpha tribes. There was nothing "broken". It was all just a bunch of cries about inequality, "people with quetzals can blah blah blah, cry cry cry". I completely agree with @AnimalMind that they were just jelly they didn't have a quetz. They still won't because anyone silly enough to complain about something that is available to ALL will still not "go for it" because of the lack of effort. You're right quetzal taming is not a skill, but requires tries not cries. Lol... tries not cries, I love it! Ty sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRoss Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Eichkater said: i stand corrected, they did say they wouldnt, but that doesnt make it set in stone either. things can always change, they have put things in the patchnotes before and changed/taken them away before. only time will telli guess. but i have to give you credit and admit I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichkater Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, Dustrider said: It doesnt really explain why the quetz cant lift the over encumbered anky using the grab function, but the same anky can ride on its back Try carrying a cement bag in your hands for a mile and then try carrying the same sack on top of your shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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