Wildcard Buries Head In Sand !!!!!!!

[Naerah(Qc)]

13 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Just another prime example that PvE players want everything done for them and expect the rules to be different for them.  Is PvE the new "Safe Space"?

Your'e playing "Player vs Environment", the Rock Golem is part of said Environment, yet you wish for your base to be defended against it without you having to do any of the hard work? Yeah that makes sense.  Regardless of if the Golem was kited or agrro'd onto your base by accident doesn't matter, it is still a part of the environment that you should have kept in mind when working on your base.

I understand that PvE doesn't require many defenses, but if you have to set up some defense for Argies or other dino's that could wander towards your base then the same applies for a Golem.  If it can break into your base and kill your dinos or wipe the buildings then thats just down to bad base design, even if it was kited.

Asking for it to be fixed is just pathetic, are you saying that even if a random player gets the attention of the Golem and runs towards your base unknowingly, forcing it to attack your base it should just do no damage at all without proper defenses?  How about go one step further and remove the teeth and claws from every other dino, wrap them in diapers and give them dummies, so they just roll around pooping their nappies and looking cute, never doing damage to another player again?

That's the way its heading.

Exactly, the rock thrown by a wild golem should do damage to the kiting player(and his structures) and him alone

[BobRoss]

4 minutes ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

By your logic if you run over someone with your car on a sidewalk, you're not a killer, your car is, and it's the guys fault for being there and not moving away fast enough... That's about as intellingent as you sound right now. When the guys who make the rules tell you your definition of a rule is wrong, you're wrong, that's it.

what a stupid analogy to make, let me fix that for you,

in that specific universe it would be impossible for you to hurt that person on the sidewalk because you know its PVE, so cars (tamed dinos) driven (ridden) by players (humans) would be impossible to hurt that guy on the sidewalk. is this clear to you? 

[GP]

2 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

what a stupid analogy to make, let me fix that for you,

in that specific universe it would be impossible for you to hurt that person on the sidewalk because you know its PVE, so cars (tamed dinos) driven (ridden) by players (humans) would be impossible to hurt that guy on the sidewalk. is this clear to you? 

Although it was a very poor analogy that doesn't really represent the current discussion very well, your labels aren't quite accurate. The car would be a (tamed dino) if they owned the car. Put a person at the top of a hill, they smash a car window (not their car, therefore (wild dino)), they hot wire it, then push it down the hill. The player at the bottom of the hill gets hit by the car. As I say yes it's a very poor analogy to begin with, but it can still represent the situation in some form.

[Naerah(Qc)]

Just now, BobRoss said:

what a stupid analogy to make, let me fix that for you,

in that specific universe it would be impossible for you to hurt that person on the sidewalk because you know its PVE, so cars (tamed dinos) driven (ridden) by players (humans) would be impossible to hurt that guy on the sidewalk. is this clear to you? 

For me the car was the wild golem, you drive it into the guy, your fault, pvp. You talk about tamed dinos, but we're talking about wild ones.

[Naerah(Qc)]

4 minutes ago, GP said:

Although it was a very poor analogy that doesn't really represent the current discussion very well, your labels aren't quite accurate. The car would be a (tamed dino) if they owned the car. Put a person at the top of a hill, they smash a car window (not their car, therefore (wild dino)), they hot wire it, then push it down the hill. The player at the bottom of the hill gets hit by the car. As I say yes it's a very poor analogy to begin with, but it can still represent the situation in some form.

Not that poor if you think of the car as a tool to intentionnaly run over someone, You start the car and run it over someone, you attack the golem and kite it to a base.

[YUSHOETMI]

12 minutes ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

Exactly, the rock thrown by a wild golem should do damage to the kiting player(and his structures) and him alone

So by that logic, any wild dino should only hurt the first person it aggro's against and nobody else in the area? Come on, that's some seriously flawed logic.  I don't play SC so can't really speak for golums, but i've seen a wild Giga aggro on a stone base and leave nothing in its wake, the tribe in question rebuilt and made it out of metal, then the Titan was introduced, unfortunately for them one spawned in their area and leveled the entire base, so they rebuilt, made it impossible for one to simply walk over the walls and kept all dinos out of aggro range. another tribe tried to kite one towards their base and it just walked around the perimeter and ended up walking away because it had nothing to aggro against.

Lesson to be learnt, if your base can defend against a situation it doesn't matter if its kited or not.

[BobRoss]

35 minutes ago, GP said:

They basically can't understand that the player is using a wild dino as a tool just like they can use a hatchet as a tool.

They ignore the fact that the player is inciting the wild dino, they ignore that they are using the wild dino as a tool.

i am not ignoring anything, what alot of people seem to not get is my (and others way of thinking) and thats fine, you dont have to understand it or agree with it.

i will explain my reasoning one more time and then im done as this is getting stupid.

A tool, like a gun/hatchet/pick is player owned, a tamed dino is playerowned. all these things are directly related to the player and when damage is caused by them in my eyes thats PVP.

a wild dino, the water, lava, the ground are in my book part of the environment. if any of these things ends up killing/destroying structures or dinos its PVE for me. right now only wild dinos can do this. HOW they do it is irrelevant to me. wether they aggro onto a spike wall and defeat my base, wether they aggro onto me and defeat my base wether they aggro onto a wild dino and defeat my base wether they aggro onto one of my dinos and defeat my base or in the last case wether they aggro onto another player and defeat my base is in MY eyes irrelevant. 

i have had my base or parts of it destroyed by wild dinos that aggrod onto it when i was offline, im talking about a raptor destroying my wooden base and thatch roofs on stone pillars. there were no dinos nearby  to draw aggro. according to some guys this should be impossible, im here telling you it happened. i have had rock golems aggro onto my base for no reason other then they felt like it (maybe they got stuck on the wall and started attacking, but these walls took damage, even if i wasnt there. 

so there are cases where a wild rock elemental will aggro onto your structure and destroy it, griefing or not.

WC has implemented ways to deal with this on most of the servers (prim hasnt got his option apparantly), that option is having your base or outer part of your base made out of metal. its a low level building material that is not extremely expensive. 

again, this is my opinion, i am free to share it and i dont expect you to or anyone else to agree with it, i completely understand your opinion as to why you DO consider it PVP. but i will not sit here while other humiliate me or look down upon me for sharing and expressing my opinion.

[Naerah(Qc)]

5 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

So by that logic, any wild dino should only hurt the first person it aggro's against and nobody else in the area? Come on, that's some seriously flawed logic.  I don't play SC so can't really speak for golums, but i've seen a wild Giga aggro on a stone base and leave nothing in its wake, the tribe in question rebuilt and made it out of metal, then the Titan was introduced, unfortunately for them one spawned in their area and leveled the entire base, so they rebuilt, made it impossible for one to simply walk over the walls and kept all dinos out of aggro range. another tribe tried to kite one towards their base and it just walked around the perimeter and ended up walking away because it had nothing to aggro against.

Lesson to be learnt, if your base can defend against a situation it doesn't matter if its kited or not.

Except yourself, nobody talked about anything else than the wild golems and rock throw

[BobRoss]

15 minutes ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

For me the car was the wild golem, you drive it into the guy, your fault, pvp. You talk about tamed dinos, but we're talking about wild ones.

no, it would be you screaming to a car thats parked next to the road and expecting it drive off killing someone on its own, id like to see you try this

[GP]

1 minute ago, BobRoss said:

i am not ignoring anything, what alot of people seem to not get is my (and others way of thinking) and thats fine, you dont have to understand it or agree with it.

i will explain my reasoning one more time and then im done as this is getting stupid.

A tool, like a gun/hatchet/pick is player owned, a tamed dino is playerowned. all these things are directly related to the player and when damage is caused by them in my eyes thats PVP.

a wild dino, the water, lava, the ground are in my book part of the environment. if any of these things ends up killing/destroying structures or dinos its PVE for me. right now only wild dinos can do this. HOW they do it is irrelevant to me. wether they aggro onto a spike wall and defeat my base, wether they aggro onto me and defeat my base wether they aggro onto a wild dino and defeat my base wether they aggro onto one of my dinos and defeat my base or in the last case wether they aggro onto another player and defeat my base is in MY eyes irrelevant. 

i have had my base or parts of it destroyed by wild dinos that aggrod onto it when i was offline, im talking about a raptor destroying my wooden base and thatch roofs on stone pillars. there were no dinos nearby  to draw aggro. according to some guys this should be impossible, im here telling you it happened. i have had rock golems aggro onto my base for no reason other then they felt like it (maybe they got stuck on the wall and started attacking, but these walls took damage, even if i wasnt there. 

so there are cases where a wild rock elemental will aggro onto your structure and destroy it, griefing or not.

WC has implemented ways to deal with this on most of the servers (prim hasnt got his option apparantly), that option is having your base or outer part of your base made out of metal. its a low level building material that is not extremely expensive. 

again, this is my opinion, i am free to share it and i dont expect you to or anyone else to agree with it, i completely understand your opinion as to why you DO consider it PVP. but i will not sit here while other humiliate me or look down upon me for sharing and expressing my opinion.

No-one is humiliating you here, and I do understand your point of view. I also accept and semi-agree with your point of view, the only thing I do not agree with is the initial action carried out by another player that has the intention to cause harm to another player. If they want to do that just go to a PVP server and carry it out directly.

[BobRoss]

3 minutes ago, GP said:

No-one is humiliating you here, and I do understand your point of view. I also accept and semi-agree with your point of view, the only thing I do not agree with is the initial action carried out by another player that has the intention to cause harm to another player. If they want to do that just go to a PVP server and carry it out directly.

and i agree with you there, its a scummy move and its for the lowest of the lowest of players, but as far as ive read under the PVE specific rules it isnt against anything in it. 

and im only argueing wether i see it as PVE or PVP, im not agrueing wether i agree with another player doing it or not. 

EDIT: no one is humiliating me? i find this to be pretty humiliating and downright disrespectful, 'I can understand how people can perceive the earth to be flat too...and should be treated with about as much respect.'

[YUSHOETMI]

2 minutes ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

Except yourself, nobody talked about anything else than the wild golems and rock throw

The Rock Golem isn't the only dino that can be kited and tricked into destroying an entire base tho, a Giga can be done just as easily and will destroy anything stone and below, a Titan on the other hand will destroy anything below Tek.

So stating that only a Golum should be addressed is as narrow minded as the actual premise of this whole thread.

[Naerah(Qc)]

1 minute ago, YUSHOETMI said:

The Rock Golem isn't the only dino that can be kited and tricked into destroying an entire base tho, a Giga can be done just as easily and will destroy anything stone and below, a Titan on the other hand will destroy anything below Tek.

So stating that only a Golum should be addressed is as narrow minded as the actual premise of this whole thread.

You're right, golems are not the only ones, but fixing one problem is still one problem less. As far as we're still talking solely PVE, i think the same should apply to both gigas and titans. Almost completly remove the effectiveness of grief intended kiting.

[YUSHOETMI]

7 minutes ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

You're right, golems are not the only ones, but fixing one problem is still one problem less. As far as we're still talking solely PVE, i think the same should apply to both gigas and titans. Almost completly remove the effectiveness of grief intended kiting.

But intended kiting and accidental can't be differentiated in anyway. Plus that still doesn't detract from the point that people who play PvE expect elements of the environment, which is the sole threat to their style of game, to be rendered useless without any hard work put into place on their behalf.  It's almost like you want the cake and to eat it.

[Griffin1984]

one option to dismiss the problem completely is make dino's stay near their territory, making it impossible to kite them for a long distance.

as it is now, i can literally get a Giga follow me all the way south, this shouldn't be possible because most (if not all) predators are territorial. This way, when you build on a "safer" place, you can build out of stone, however if you build near golems and the like, you shouldn't be surprised that your base gets destroyed.

[Kallor]

55 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

So by that logic, any wild dino should only hurt the first person it aggro's against and nobody else in the area? Come on, that's some seriously flawed logic.  

It's how it roughly works currently.  I can aggro a bronto and stand on top of some other tribes thatch hut and the bronto tail-swipe aoe will do ZERO damage to the thatch hut.  Unless someone from that tribe or their dino attacks the bronto, the thatch hut is perfectly safe.

[BulletForce]

2 hours ago, GP said:

No-one has said PVE is meant to be risk free. The Environment is what is meant to be the risk.

If a player decides to target another player to destroy them by inciting the environment to do the damage (because they physically can't) then that is PVP because it involves a Player carrying out actions to destroy another Player, what part of that is NOT PVP?

You trying to claim people are claiming PVE is meant to be risk free is just you trying to twist what everyone is saying.

If a player in PVP goes up to a thatch structure and hacks it to death himself with a hatchet then that is PVP as a Player is using a tool (hatchet) to destroy another Player.
If a player in PVE agros a dino to a thatch structure and eats it then that is PVP as a Player is using a tool (wild dino) to destroy another Player.

But I can see how easy it is for people to ignore the fact that another player is clearly attacking another player because that would otherwise prove that it is PVP activity.

I fail to see how kiting a wild dino to someone's base is any different from a wild dino wandering to said base. Its still a wild dino, it still has the same mechanics and it will still do the same things. At the end of the day it is still not a player attacking their base its the environment and therefore its fine. Some people need to realize that this is a survival game, you are meant to be die and lose stuff from time to time even if you live under a rock on a PVE server.

I'm a dedicated PVP player with 0 hours of PVE 'experience' so make what you will of my opinion but I'm certain my logic is sound.

[BulletForce]

53 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

and i agree with you there, its a scummy move and its for the lowest of the lowest of players, but as far as ive read under the PVE specific rules it isnt against anything in it. 

and im only argueing wether i see it as PVE or PVP, im not agrueing wether i agree with another player doing it or not. 

EDIT: no one is humiliating me? i find this to be pretty humiliating and downright disrespectful, 'I can understand how people can perceive the earth to be flat too...and should be treated with about as much respect.'

Its a legitimate tactic. Considering how limited your strategic options are on a PVE server this is a sound tactic. PVE is all about being passive aggressive, you can't fire a rocket at your neighbors base whose land you seek but you can wall him in and spam pillars around his base and generally be annoying. Eventually he'll quit and his land will be yours. 

That's how you win in PVE.

[BobRoss]

4 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

Its a legitimate tactic. Considering how limited your strategic options are on a PVE server this is a sound tactic. PVE is all about being passive aggressive, you can't fire a rocket at your neighbors base whose land you seek but you can wall him in and spam pillars around his base and generally be annoying. Eventually he'll quit and his land will be yours. 

That's how you win in PVE.

i still view PVE as being a peaceful community that helps eachother. not the everyone keeps to themselves mentality. i know its probably a dream and not reality, but a man can dream right?  

[YUSHOETMI]

10 minutes ago, Kallor said:

It's how it roughly works currently.  I can aggro a bronto and stand on top of some other tribes thatch hut and the bronto tail-swipe aoe will do ZERO damage to the thatch hut.  Unless someone from that tribe or their dino attacks the bronto, the thatch hut is perfectly safe.

not quite sure that's how it works, would render this discussion pointless, a bronto will only aggro if you attack it, it isn't naturally aggressive, take a rex or other aggressive animal into somebody elses base and see how long it takes before it ignores you and goes to work on their stuff

[Griffin1984]

5 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

i still view PVE as being a peaceful community that helps eachother. not the everyone keeps to themselves mentality. i know its probably a dream and not reality, but a man can dream right?  

This is exactly how PVE should work, players vs environment.

Sadly this thing is only possible on unofficial ...

[Kallor]

7 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

not quite sure that's how it works, would render this discussion pointless, a bronto will only aggro if you attack it, it isn't naturally aggressive, take a rex or other aggressive animal into somebody elses base and see how long it takes before it ignores you and goes to work on their stuff

I'm pointing out how a large AoE attack from a dino will not damage structures belonging to a tribe that hasn't aggroed it (from either dinos or people attacking it).  I can aggro the bronto, stand on someones thatch and get smashed to pieces by the bronto and the thatch will take zero damage.  I can do the same with a titan, again, the structures belonging to another tribe will not take any damage.  The other tribes dinos would take damage if they were present but that's a different scenario.

Why are you commenting about PvE if you don't understand how it even currently works?

[YUSHOETMI]

3 minutes ago, Kallor said:

I'm pointing out how a large AoE attack from a dino will not damage structures belonging to a tribe that hasn't aggroed it (from either dinos or people attacking it).  I can aggro the bronto, stand on someones thatch and get smashed to pieces by the bronto and the thatch will take zero damage.  I can do the same with a titan, again, the structures belonging to another tribe will not take any damage.  The other tribes dinos would take damage if they were present but that's a different scenario.

Why are you commenting about PvE if you don't understand how it even currently works?

How is it a different scenario when the tribe in question had all dinos and buildings destroyed by the golum? Clearly if it was kited to the base it had the ability to damage the dinos and structures.

Because I can, and because the constant outcry from PvE players to have something changed in favor of their way of playing is quite annoying. It's almost like they want the game to be so easy they may aswell be playing minecraft.

[myksta0121]

1 hour ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

By your logic if you run over someone with your car on a sidewalk, you're not a killer, your car is, and it's the guys fault for being there and not moving away fast enough... That's about as intellingent as you sound right now. When the guys who make the rules tell you your definition of a rule is wrong, you're wrong, that's it.

This is the best example i have seen so far fair play dude

[GP]

34 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

I fail to see how kiting a wild dino to someone's base is any different from a wild dino wandering to said base. Its still a wild dino, it still has the same mechanics and it will still do the same things.

You are ignoring the initial factor. Yes if a dino wanders past your base and agros it will carry out the same mechanics and do the same things. But if I live on the far east of the island, and there is a Giga spawned on the far west, would the same mechanic make the wild Giga naturally wander to my base on the opposite side of the map? No.

So yes, the attack and agro me be the same mechanic, but the player is controlling the Giga to go somewhere that its natural mechanic would not take it.