Credit where it's due 👏

[Feynt]

There was a lot of doom and gloom around the impending cryopods/fridges.  Lots of negative feedback from people who didn't even play on the PTR, and of course those who did.  On release, not only where they made slightly more reasonable, there are ini settings to disable the changes and allow us to keep the old functionality.  Read the new patch notes for 33.15 as well just now and saw the soft cap.  So, credit where it's due, this is a positive step forward.

For those who somehow don't know because patch notes are for rubes or something:

Cryofridges/pods

Yes, you're (by default) limited to releasing pods within range of a fridge.  Yes there's a 5 minute start up time on each fridge.  Yes each fridge has to be powered to function.  Yes on PvP servers there's a deployment limit preventing you from throwing out dinos if hostiles are nearby.  No, you can't have a portable cryofridge.  For the intended functionality of crypods, this doesn't seem bad.  They were never meant to be a way to be a pokemon trainer, they were meant to be a way to reduce dino populations and keep food consumption down.

But Wildcard added ini settings to throw all those changes out.  No restrictions on enemies in range, active fridges, or even placing fridges on platform saddles.  Now, all the complaints are moot.  Everyone playing on private servers doesn't have to care.  Everyone playing on official has to deal with cryopods as intended which aren't so bad.

 

Dino Soft Caps

I honestly can't conceive of reaching a 5k dino cap on a server, but I also don't play on a server with more than 8 people, so...

But I do acknowledge that with a 40+ person server, each person having hundreds of potential dinos, the number of tamed dinos would prevent anyone new from coming in.  Having the soft cap that now says "this dino is old, new people are coming in and taming their own stuff, you're going to have to put it away" sounds like a good idea.  I know there are tribes equally dedicated to preventing newcomers from taming anything or building by consuming as much of the resources on the server as possible (random foundations everywhere and taming hordes of dodos).  So, this sounds like a great idea in theory for such servers.  Newcomer comes in, tries to tame a dilo, someone across the map gets a soft cap warning that one of their dodos is going to disappear.  A+.

My only worry is that this will allow soft cap trolling in reverse.  More people taming more dodos to force people with defensive dinos like chalicotherium or purlovia to pod up those defences, leaving them exposed for raiding.  I feel like this is a thing that will need to be investigated before it becomes a thing on official servers.  Maybe a tracker per dino about how recently they've been active in combat, or been interacted with in general, which changes their likelihood of being marked for podding/destruction.  This means active, aggressive defenders like a swarm of dimos acting as a flying sentry solution around a base will be able to remain active indefinitely since they would be dealing with approaching dinos.  As well, purlovia with stuff buried nearby a base will be lower on the list since they're interacted with as a hidden chest, as it were.  Dodos and other trash tames though, unless someone is really dedicated to the bit, will be constantly marked for removal.  This would also prevent active service dinos like that argentavis you fly around daily or the rexes that were just used to fight the monkey a couple hours ago won't be flagged for removal.

[sk1ff]

Maybe it’s enough to constantly evaluate the game from the perspective of PVP-players?

For PVE, all these innovations make no sense and only harm the game. Now, in addition to pillars, we also have spam of cryo-refrigerators.

Just separate these game modes, it is impossible to please both!

[Feynt]

8 hours ago, sk1ff said:

Maybe it’s enough to constantly evaluate the game from the perspective of PVP-players?

For PVE, all these innovations make no sense and only harm the game. Now, in addition to pillars, we also have spam of cryo-refrigerators.

Just separate these game modes, it is impossible to please both!

Well that's the thing, Wildcard listened (partially) and made part of the cryofridge change PvP exclusive, a change based on the PvE flag being set in the server settings.  This is good, because it means they'll be more inclined to do that in the future.  But for I feel the majority of people, PvE is a private server affair, and the ini settings allow a server owner to turn off as much of the changes as they want, another good change by Wildcard.  Changes are always fine, especially to bring the game in line with their vision.  But options to leave things "legacy" (i.e. ASE style cryofridges/pods) make sure everyone is happy.

So for a large portion of the PvE crowd, cryofridge spam is not going to be an issue unless the server owner (and thus their limited playerbase) agree the cryofridge restrictions are healthy (in which case they'll probably also have a gentlemen's agreement not to spam cryofridges everywhere).  For the people playing on official servers, most of them are playing PvPvE anyway, and have to deal with foundation spam regardless, so cryofridge spam is hardly the least of their worries.  Problem solved, honestly.

[sk1ff]

You are trying to justify these changes at any cost.
But there is not a single fact showing how these new cryopod changes are useful for PVE. NOT A SINGLE FACT!

I, like many of my friends, don't want anything to do with PVP. Why should we suffer and go to unofficial servers because of these stupid changes? I want and will play on the official server. But such innovations were made literally in order to evict me from here.

Why make cryopods worse than it was for official players, given that they cannot cancel anything?..

Edited December 23, 2023 by sk1ff

[Pipinghot]

21 hours ago, Feynt said:

I honestly can't conceive of reaching a 5k dino cap on a server, but I also don't play on a server with more than 8 people, so...

So you have no idea what you're talking about, you have no idea what it's like to play on an official PvE server, and yet you're trying to tell other people that everything's fine. Arguing from a position of ignorance is not only silly, it makes your arguments moot.

Playing on a server with no more than 8 people is radically different from paying on an official server, or even a public unofficial server with a large population. A problem may not affect you, because of your specific circumstances but it's still a problem that affects a lot of other people. Don't tell other people that their problem is fine when you don't know what the experience is like for them.

21 hours ago, Feynt said:

There was a lot of doom and gloom around the impending cryopods/fridges.

No, it wasn't "doom and gloom", it was honest, legitimate feedback and valid criticisms of changes that caused more problems than they fixed.

21 hours ago, Feynt said:

On release, not only where they made slightly more reasonable, there are ini settings to disable the changes and allow us to keep the old functionality.

"Slightly more reasonable" can still be unreasonable, just less so. If it's not reasonable then it's still no reasonable, even if it's "more reasonable" than it was before.

Including .ini options only affects private servers, it does nothing for people on Official PvE servers. If you don't play Official PvE servers then you shouldn't be telling people on those servers that the changes are fine for them, that's for them to decide.

21 hours ago, Feynt said:

So, credit where it's due, this is a positive step forward.

A positive step that only occurred because of all that "doom and gloom" you talked about. It doesn't change the fact that WC was planning to make cryopods worse and only did a course correction after lots of people pointed out why it was going to be a bad change. And remember, WC had years of experience with cryopods in ARK-SE, this wasn't some new concept that had never been tried. It should have been obvious to WC that they were on the wrong path without tons of people explaining it to them.

21 hours ago, Feynt said:

But Wildcard added ini settings to throw all those changes out.  No restrictions on enemies in range, active fridges, or even placing fridges on platform saddles.  Now, all the complaints are moot.  Everyone playing on private servers doesn't have to care.  Everyone playing on official has to deal with cryopods as intended which aren't so bad.

Again, that only helps for private servers. These changes might mean it's not a problem for you or your server, but that doesn't mean it's ok for others.

[Feynt]

3 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

So you have no idea what you're talking about, you have no idea what it's like to play on an official PvE server, and yet you're trying to tell other people that everything's fine. Arguing from a position of ignorance is not only silly, it makes your arguments moot.

I know stories and hearsay, as well as the nature of trolls, and the mechanics as presented.  So yes, I'm aware of what's happening on official PvE servers.  I'm aware of people putting fence foundations in awkward terrain so they're nigh invisible which prevents other tribes from building.  I'm aware of people putting single foundations outside of caves in slightly out of the way (visibly) places with a single bed on it.  I'm aware of people setting up their bases in the mouth of some caves, forever locking that cave from others on a PvE server because you can't blow up someone else's stuff.

The point is that the cryofridge situation has improved, significantly so for unofficial server residents (which if I'm not mistaken is a majority), and we should be applauding Wildcard for:

1. Listening to our constructive feedback, because lord knows there have been a lot of whiners just purporting the doom of the game and how everything is bad without any suggestions on how to fix it beyond "just make it like it was".
2. Making use of their PvE flag in the server settings to separate part of the changes (i.e. the enemies in range restriction, for now)
3. Adding options in general so that while some may like these new changes, those who own a server can turn them off and revert to the old system.

By encouraging them on this, and realising ourselves that constructive feedback (i.e. telling them how you might fix a thing, beyond "just make it like it was") works, we develop an actual rapport with the devs.  Most of the community raging because Wildcard did something to make cryopods act the way they originally intended only makes them want to ignore us.

3 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

Playing on a server with no more than 8 people is radically different from paying on an official server, or even a public unofficial server with a large population. A problem may not affect you, because of your specific circumstances but it's still a problem that affects a lot of other people. Don't tell other people that their problem is fine when you don't know what the experience is like for them.

Again, yes, I do not know what a server with 50+ people is like.  I've dealt with enough drama between randumbs in tribes in the past on a 20 man server to know I want no part of that mess (tearing down each others builds, spite killing dinos, one sided socialism (what's mine is mine, but what's yours is also mine), endless debates about the proper way to build a square building...).  However based on numbers, I can guess.  50 people, everyone has a typical set of dinos (argy, their combat mount of choice, spares, plus breeding for bossing) can easily hit a 100 dino per person limit.

When someone else comes in, they're prevented from participating at all because of this.  Except, not anymore with this soft cap idea.  It hasn't been turned on yet, so it's still subject to review, and thus we can influence how it might work.  Again, I feel this is a good plan but it can be subject to abuse as well.  I gave my feedback on it.  How about you give some as well rather than dismissing someones opinion because you don't like what they're saying?

3 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

No, it wasn't "doom and gloom", it was honest, legitimate feedback and valid criticisms of changes that caused more problems than they fixed.

Correction:  There was some honest and legitimate feedback.  On here, the Steam forums, and reddit, there were so many people complaining about things changing from how they used to be.  The signal to noise ration was absurd.  Still is, technically.

3 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

"Slightly more reasonable" can still be unreasonable, just less so. If it's not reasonable then it's still no reasonable, even if it's "more reasonable" than it was before.

Including .ini options only affects private servers, it does nothing for people on Official PvE servers. If you don't play Official PvE servers then you shouldn't be telling people on those servers that the changes are fine for them, that's for them to decide.

Look, I get that you didn't like the changes, and I get that you like playing on official.  I don't understand why, but you probably like playing there for the same reason I like playing on my own server with a perpetual boost to gathering.  But this is what you agreed to.  You play on official because you like what Wildcard decided is the ideal way to play Ark.  They had previously stated they didn't intend for cryopods to be pokeballs (many years ago), but simply a means of transporting dinos between bases.  Well, now they're enforcing that on official servers.

What I'm seeing is a lot of people, once again, spouting doom and gloom about "cryo pillars everywhere" (which is a legitimate concern), but so far I haven't seen anyone propose any solutions to this.  Or the foundation issue that is so rampant on official PvE servers.  On unofficial servers it's easy.  The admin learns some tribe has been doing that poop, goes out in creative mode and shoots up their stray foundations, or for next boot implements a high decay so random unattended buildings will just rot in minutes.  If the official decay rates are not enough to keep the foundation spam from being a problem, and there are legitimate concerns about the cryofridges on pillars being everywhere as well, what is your proposed solution to this?

3 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

A positive step that only occurred because of all that "doom and gloom" you talked about. It doesn't change the fact that WC was planning to make cryopods worse and only did a course correction after lots of people pointed out why it was going to be a bad change. And remember, WC had years of experience with cryopods in ARK-SE, this wasn't some new concept that had never been tried. It should have been obvious to WC that they were on the wrong path without tons of people explaining it to them.

Yes, they had years to go over it, and their original intention (stated years ago) was for cryofridges to be base bound, and for cryopod deployment to be done in bases rather than being pokeballs.  Short of requiring nearby infrastructure (minimum foundations in range, fully enclosed), I feel like their solution couldn't really be better for solving that.  Wildcard did fix some things based on the few bits of constructive criticism they picked out of the forums, but imagine if the community as a whole proposed ideas to resolve their problems instead of shouting about them being incompetent.

Cryopods are, within their new scope, no different than they were.  That scope is restrictive, in line with their vision, but nobody has proposed a better solution to their intentions.  All anyone has stated was "it was fine how it was, why did you make them worse?!!@".  Even you.  I haven't seen a solution from you on how you might make cryopods not function as pokeballs, usable literally anywhere, while also preventing cryofridge spam around the map and thus making inter-tribe building on a PvE server even more intolerable.

How about this:  Any structure that is placed, if it does not make a fully enclosed building (i.e. provide a "house" buff), is subject to a 10 minute timer (arbitrary time, could be an hour, could be 30 seconds).  That timer automatically destroys the placed structure if it is not made into such a fully enclosed building of a minimum dimension (8 foundations/ceilings that are fully enclosed lets say, a 3x3 for example, or a 2x4 all satisfy this).  That means people have to make full bases around the map, readily visible to even casual observers.  Further restrictions can be implemented to prevent distant buildings (i.e. tribes are restricted to 3 "compounds", however many buildings within 100 foundations (arbitrary number) of each other).

See?  Was that so hard?

3 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

Again, that only helps for private servers. These changes might mean it's not a problem for you or your server, but that doesn't mean it's ok for others.

You're right.  I've proposed the idea of keeping the new cryopod system sans the platform saddle restriction, but my playerbase is staunchly against it on the grounds that they just want to use cryopods to bring dinos to obelisks without having to make a base at the obelisks as well.  I don't understand their reasoning, but I removed the restrictions entirely anyway.  That's the magic of private servers.  I know in actuality there are just a few people who want to bring larger dinos into caves rather than having to deal with the pain of raising them inside of said cave, but whatever.

Again though, these new restrictions are your burden to bear.  You chose to play on official servers.  Make a proposal to Wildcard to ease that burden with constructive feedback rather than "you made it worse" that is also in keeping with their intended role for crypods.

 

At the end of the day, Wildcard has demonstrated that they are listening to constructive feedback, are willing to work with us, and are making use of their PvE flag now.  Make use of that, and encourage the devs when they do good work like this rather than continuing to poop on them because you don't like their vision for their game.

[sk1ff]

1. Apparently, you really ABSOLUTELY do not understand the specifics of the game on official PVE servers. And you know nothing about breeding high-level dinos.

2. Your judgment is already wrong in that you take unofficial servers with their settings as a basis. But these servers are not the basis of the game. The basis is official servers, since they are directly regulated by the developer, and not by some outside admin. And deteriorating the official game, where nothing can be changed by the server settings, is a very bad practice. This puts players off.
Once again, give as an example at least one fact in favor of new cryopods for PVE. I doubt you will find one like this. Cryopods are now completely useless and harmful.

3. Do you want constructive suggestions? This has already been written about on this forum. The developers returned cryopods to the game in order to control the number of tamed dinos on the servers, but at the same time they cut all their other bonuses and, in addition, provoked spam of cryo-fridges. This is a very bad decision for PVE. It was easier to just add shared storage to the base with terminals. You bring the dino to the terminal and pack it for storage. That's all! The problem with the limit of tamed dinos is solved! There is no dissatisfaction among the players. And there is no spam of unnecessary structures!

Why was it even necessary to promise cryopods to everyone, and instead give cut-up functionality? We are not new players. We ALREADY know how they were supposed to work, and it has become much worse.

4. I won’t even mention the developers’ plans to introduce timers for mandatory freezing of dinos, and killing them by the system if they were not put into storage. 200% that this mechanic will traditionally not work as it should, and people will lose their dinos due to bugs or absence in the game. And losing a tribal dino is a real tragedy.

I see a growing lump of problems

But people like you try to tell us how good everything is. Although you don't even play on the official server.
And not in PVE, since only PVP players have problems with pokeballs.

Edited December 24, 2023 by sk1ff

[Pipinghot]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:35 PM, Feynt said:

I know stories and hearsay, as well as the nature of trolls, and the mechanics as presented.  So yes, I'm aware of what's happening on official PvE servers.  I'm aware of people putting fence foundations in awkward terrain so they're nigh invisible which prevents other tribes from building.  I'm aware of people putting single foundations outside of caves in slightly out of the way (visibly) places with a single bed on it.  I'm aware of people setting up their bases in the mouth of some caves, forever locking that cave from others on a PvE server because you can't blow up someone else's stuff.

[snip]

At the end of the day, Wildcard has demonstrated that they are listening to constructive feedback, are willing to work with us, and are making use of their PvE flag now.  Make use of that, and encourage the devs when they do good work like this rather than continuing to poop on them because you don't like their vision for their game.

Wow what a bunch of nonsense, if anyone here is being dismissive of other people's opinons it's you. You've presented so many bad arguments it would take a wall of text to debunk them all individually.

The simple truth is that tons of people have presented valid, honest, legitimate feedback including various suggestions on how to make it better, but you want to pretend that none of that happened becuase things are good for you and your server.

[Noricha]

Cryopods are ugly now, no matter how you try to dress them up.  PVE players don’t need these changes.

[MissAscended]

I would rather have them suffered from instant cryosickness than them having to be near a fridge. Why, ark gods, whyyyy!!! 

[Noricha]

Some people keep asking for hardcore, to me the cryopods are now hardcore mode, lol.  I’m sure they plan to nerf a lot of things just to please that 1% of the players that want that extra challenge.

[St1ckyBandit]

I'd be fine with all other changes (still not a fan overall, but I can deal) if they still let you put cryofridges on rafts and quetz bases. For me, thats the straw that broke the camels back.

[Eskwyre]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:40 AM, Feynt said:

Well that's the thing, Wildcard listened (partially) and made part of the cryofridge change PvP exclusive, a change based on the PvE flag being set in the server settings.  This is good, because it means they'll be more inclined to do that in the future.  But for I feel the majority of people, PvE is a private server affair, and the ini settings allow a server owner to turn off as much of the changes as they want, another good change by Wildcard.  Changes are always fine, especially to bring the game in line with their vision.  But options to leave things "legacy" (i.e. ASE style cryofridges/pods) make sure everyone is happy.

So for a large portion of the PvE crowd, cryofridge spam is not going to be an issue unless the server owner (and thus their limited playerbase) agree the cryofridge restrictions are healthy (in which case they'll probably also have a gentlemen's agreement not to spam cryofridges everywhere).  For the people playing on official servers, most of them are playing PvPvE anyway, and have to deal with foundation spam regardless, so cryofridge spam is hardly the least of their worries.  Problem solved, honestly.

Where you started talking about PVE players as if we all play private servers is where you started speaking utter nonsense.

 

Official servers are full to the brim with new players, traps are literally everywhere, cryo/gen spam is getting out of control, not only around friends bases but rhynio traps and important resource locations.

 

They really need to accept that whilst this might be good for PvP it's absolute idiocy in PvE.

Edited January 6 by Eskwyre
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