Griffin Balance

[MrGerard]

50 minutes ago, X111 said:

and then when people start using the phoenix I suppose that's going to have to be nerfed as well?

as it was said before people aren't evolving their methods of survival, what did you do when the giga was introduced?

what did you do when you got yourself a giga and the fire arrow was introduced?

its the same story over and over again

wyverns are too powerful, nerf their stam, their normal speed is too much, lets add in a stam consumption per x amount of time in flight. players have 200-300% movement speed on their wyverns, lets remove the ability to upgrade movement because there were already complaints about the ptera issue etc etc well done to all the players who couldn't do what others have and got WC and the Devs to play the game for you

 

This is you.!!!

No please dont nerf my 400% speed turret soaking quetzal with auto turrets on the platform... its not OP.!!

No please i cant live without my 400% speed and 4k stam ptera... how will i barrel roll you and your dinos and be out of render range before you see the kill message.!

 

[X111]

1 hour ago, MrGerard said:

 

This is you.!!!

No please dont nerf my 400% speed turret soaking quetzal with auto turrets on the platform... its not OP.!!

No please i cant live without my 400% speed and 4k stam ptera... how will i barrel roll you and your dinos and be out of render range before you see the kill message.!

 

this is you!!!

"please nerf everyone's animals because I cant be bothered to spend the time and resources in getting to where they are and this game should be a level playing field for new starters and veteran players"

if you spent half the time battling your failures as you do griefing and crying then you may actually start to understand how the game plays and figure it out for yourself instead.

I only ever got to use pteras on PVP prior to the nerf but I saw how other people were doing it and adapted, I got my dodo farm sorted and got me a 150 ptera, got me a few 150 pteras and enjoyed my time with them prior to the nerf, I then went on to PVE as I got bored of PVP but I didn't cry about how OP the fliers were because it was how the game was played.

also I was a solo player and didn't have time to go about getting the high end creatures as I have a full time job and l like my sleep, only once experienced the box quetz and prenerfed wyverns on 1 raid with an alliance tribe using my pteras and believe it or not, the tribe we raided had exactly the same advantages with their box quetz and wyverns.

if you don't want to put the effort in, then expect to be an easy target

 

EDIT: please try adding to the discussion instead of trying to antagonise people, your comment was just pointless

[MrGerard]

1 minute ago, X111 said:

this is you!!!

"please nerf everyone's animals because I cant be bothered to spend the time and resources in getting to where they are and this game should be a level playing field for new starters and veteran players"

if you spent half the time battling your failures as you do griefing and crying then you may actually start to understand how the game plays and figure it out for yourself instead.

I only ever got to use pteras on PVP prior to the nerf but I saw how other people were doing it and adapted, I got my dodo farm sorted and got me a 150 ptera, got me a few 150 pteras and enjoyed my time with them prior to the nerf, I then went on to PVE as I got bored of PVP but I didn't cry about how OP the fliers were because it was how the game was played.

also I was a solo player and didn't have time to go about getting the high end creatures as I have a full time job and l like my sleep, only once experienced the box quetz and prenerfed wyverns on 1 raid with an alliance tribe using my pteras and believe it or not, the tribe we raided had exactly the same advantages with their box quetz and wyverns.

if you don't want to put the effort in, then expect to be an easy target

 

At least i know that my logical thinking is the right one, because the developers agreed and balanced the game by removing your crutch.!!

[X111]

4 minutes ago, MrGerard said:

 

At least i know that my logical thinking is the right one, because the developers agreed and balanced the game by removing your crutch.!!

that's probably because they gave up on giving you the options on defending yourself

now please, add something more constructive to the conversation other than your self entitled moaning from your pedestal

[MrGerard]

17 minutes ago, X111 said:

that's probably because they gave up on giving you the options on defending yourself

now please, add something more constructive to the conversation other than your self entitled moaning from your pedestal

Hahaha... I don't think you are allowed to cry "no nerf" if you play PVE.

Here is mt constructive input.! 

1. Reduce health on griffin and balance by adding breeding.

2. Remove ability to shoot while mounted in the air.

3. Add range weapon damage and head-shot multiplier.

BALANCED.!!!!!

[DarthaNyan]

49 minutes ago, MrGerard said:

and balance by adding breeding.

Adding Breeding to Griffins will put them way out of balance again - they will benefit from it way to much because of negative bonuses to health and melee upon tame (just like giga).
That extra Melee from imprint and extra damage from rider bonus will be a huge problem when applied to their dive'n'swipe atack. So..

4. reduce swipe damage multiplier to 7-8x (currently it is 14-15x).

[MrGerard]

4 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Adding Breeding to Griffins will put them way out of balance again - they will benefit from way to much because of negative bonuses to health and melee upon tame (just like giga).
That extra Melee from imprint and extra damage from rider bonus will be a huge problem when applied to their dive'n'swipe atack. So..

4. reduce swipe damage multiplier to 7-8x (currently it is 14-15x).

I wasn't even thinking about that.

I'm sure the dev's are having the exact same discussion about this.. its going to be really hard to balance or rework the griffin without upsetting somebody. 

But it is inevitable. I would really be happy is they just removed the ability to shoot from the back 

[X111]

37 minutes ago, MrGerard said:

Hahaha... I don't think you are allowed to cry "no nerf" if you play PVE.

Here is mt constructive input.! 

1. Reduce health on griffin and balance by adding breeding.

2. Remove ability to shoot while mounted in the air.

3. Add range weapon damage and head-shot multiplier.

BALANCED.!!!!!

I was actually siding with the no nerf on PVP as I have played PVP pre nerf but I suppose you only read what you want so there's no getting around that with you

1. Reduce health on griffin and balance by adding breeding.

if you believe the griffin is over powered, then breeding will make them a complete God mechanic in the game, imagine all the breeders out there rubbing their hands together because they just got a lucky role on stam or health or MD? the griffin does seem to soak up a lot of damage as I tested it against a wild giga last night, I had 17.5k health on it, the giga munched 4 times with bleed and I was down to about 9k health, but then it took 5 hits on one of my legacy pteras from a wild giga lvl95, I had an ascendant saddle but still this shows how badly the giga has suffered recently. perhaps halving points per level into health?

2. Remove ability to shoot while mounted in the air.

this was mentioned before tbh, I think a response was that the firing arc was obstructed by the wings, head of the rider or mount and no rear facing seat. the argument could also be that the Tappy with its forward and backwards mounted passengers, tek gear and dragonfly abilities is too OP

3. Add range weapon damage and head-shot multiplier.

I agree with this one, the fact you cant headshot the creature does make it more difficult. perhaps a buff to turret type defences to allow faster tracking on air targets? I have noticed that the DEVs love playing around with the nerfs and buffs for the creatures but the turrets seem to stagnate. maybe make an option to target airbourne targets and to increase tracking rates by 200% to combat fast movers?

 

[X111]

11 minutes ago, MrGerard said:

I wasn't even thinking about that.

I'm sure the dev's are having the exact same discussion about this.. its going to be really hard to balance or rework the griffin without upsetting somebody. 

But it is inevitable. I would really be happy is they just removed the ability to shoot from the back 

I think the problem also stems from the Rag map, I could be wrong but our tribe and alliances have noticed that the rex's we tamed on rag and then bred were producing higher level base stats than rex's tamed and bred on island for example.

we tested this on the wolves, we got 2-3 150 kibble tames from Rag and 2-3 150kibble tames from island and ran the caves on the island, the Rag wolves were running the caves a lot faster than the ones on island

our wyverns as well, hatched and imprinted one of our wyverns from Rag came out with HP @17k average where as hatched and imprinted on SE came out with HP @12k average

[DarthaNyan]

33 minutes ago, X111 said:

to increase tracking rates by 200% to combat fast movers?

This shows that you dont understand current issue with turrets that devs are trying to mitigate at all. "Faster tracking" means that much more scanning and calculations per turret which will be essentially an undoing of idea of turret limitation that they are currently trying to achieve.

[X111]

46 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

This shows that you dont understand current issue with turrets that devs are trying to mitigate at all. "Faster tracking" means that much more scanning and calculations per turret which will be essentially an undoing of idea of turret limitation that they are currently trying to achieve.

this shows that you don't see that I have asked a question on a subject I have little knowledge on so don't be condescending, you could of politely replied with the second part of your post realising I didn't full understand the ramifications of "Faster Tracking". Not all of us are coders or understand the finer workings of how X works by modifying UVW to produce YZ.

[DarthaNyan]

29 minutes ago, X111 said:

this shows that you don't see that I have asked a question on a subject I have little knowledge on so don't be condescending, you could of politely replied with the second part of your post realising I didn't full understand the ramifications of "Faster Tracking". Not all of us are coders or understand the finer workings of how X works by modifying UVW to produce YZ.

Sorry, if my post above sounded condescending to you. That wasn't my intention. I just assumed that person proposing such a measure should have, at least, read this explanation by TheRightHand:

Quote

Let me emphasize now, that for the last two years, turrets have been a pain in our butt...

...So, we looked at what we could do about it. Let me wrap this all up in context, these things I'm going to put here are facts:

Our turrets are highly optimized for what they do with respect to gameplay. They use a very fast bitmasked octree overlap to return all of specific types of actors (excluding irrelivant actors) in the aoe that they defend, and then act according to the settings you configure, early-outing from any extra calculations or wasted instructions if their shot is invalid. We could make that area they search smaller, which would be faster, but then they would need correspondingly smaller ranges.

We could make them search for less things in their overlap check, but then you'd have turrets that didn't fire on some things.

We could make them acquire targets less frequently, but then they'd be much less accurate and in many cases would not pick up things like rocket projectiles that entered their range between scans.

We could make them scan at different ranges for different things, but then their functionality would be weirdly ambiguous and what things would we reduce scan range for anyways? Anything that a turret should be shooting at is important.

Additionally, even if we did one or all of these things, the per-frame cost of each turret would not be greatly reduced (fractions of milliseconds) and 15k+ turrets would still cripple servers.

It pretty much explains both Flyer speed Nerf and current Turret Limit.

[Probitas]

37 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Sorry, if my post above sounded condescending to you. That wasn't my intention. I just assumed that person proposing such a measure should have, at least, read this explanation by TheRightHand:

It pretty much explains both Flyer speed Nerf and current Turret Limit.

The flyer nerf wasn't needed, just a turret adjustment. Players cannot expect a game to run right with 100s of the turrets in a 10x10 area and expect them to hit anything, because you are correct, movement is usually calculated before trajectory so they were gone before the bullet got there (plus I DO agree that turrets should have an option for flying dinos as that would sort that out quickly: I do not believe the turrets were targeting the pteros specifically, they'd have been shooting at the Rexes and other land dinos present and the Pteros would be zipping by faster than the server could change targets - but that's what you are supposed to do when staging an assault, ground units plus aerial support - battlefield 101). But it's not the pteros fault the players overloaded the server. Add to that the Plant Xs and it's just too much for a game server to handle.

If the breeding stats were capped to maximums then you would never get those insane crazy stats, on anything, because I don't think it's any fairer to have 400% speed flying mounts OR 3000% melee dinos.

[X111]

2 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

Sorry, if my post above sounded condescending to you. That wasn't my intention. I just assumed that person proposing such a measure should have, at least, read this explanation by TheRightHand:

It pretty much explains both Flyer speed Nerf and current Turret Limit.

thanks for that, not sure why I haven't seen this but it and you answer my question, thanks  

[X111]

1 hour ago, Probitas said:

The flyer nerf wasn't needed, just a turret adjustment. Players cannot expect a game to run right with 100s of the turrets in a 10x10 area and expect them to hit anything, because you are correct, movement is usually calculated before trajectory so they were gone before the bullet got there (plus I DO agree that turrets should have an option for flying dinos as that would sort that out quickly: I do not believe the turrets were targeting the pteros specifically, they'd have been shooting at the Rexes and other land dinos present and the Pteros would be zipping by faster than the server could change targets - but that's what you are supposed to do when staging an assault, ground units plus aerial support - battlefield 101). But it's not the pteros fault the players overloaded the server. Add to that the Plant Xs and it's just too much for a game server to handle.

If the breeding stats were capped to maximums then you would never get those insane crazy stats, on anything, because I don't think it's any fairer to have 400% speed flying mounts OR 3000% melee dinos.

would that be such a bad thing?

limit the amount of dino's you have per species?

now I want thought out answers and not "no effing way" answers to combat the dino crowding situation and how about limiting the amount of tames to 10 per species? you will still have a genetic pool to choose from when breeding, you'd still have a variety of creatures to use (PVPer's would have to be extremely selective) and it would prevent the massed rex or giga invasion of servers, to do bosses the game will challenge you even further (I've seen bosses done with mutated Anky's), you'd still be able to tame every creature in the game but if you want to have the best stats you'd have to breed or search for a wild and hope it has the stats.

[Probitas]

4 hours ago, X111 said:

would that be such a bad thing?

limit the amount of dino's you have per species?

now I want thought out answers and not "no effing way" answers to combat the dino crowding situation and how about limiting the amount of tames to 10 per species? you will still have a genetic pool to choose from when breeding, you'd still have a variety of creatures to use (PVPer's would have to be extremely selective) and it would prevent the massed rex or giga invasion of servers, to do bosses the game will challenge you even further (I've seen bosses done with mutated Anky's), you'd still be able to tame every creature in the game but if you want to have the best stats you'd have to breed or search for a wild and hope it has the stats.

Basic egg laying needs to be boosted, then there is no need for huge dino farms for eggs. As far as breeding goes trying for colorful mutations may be fun but you will never be able to keep them all, so learn to do without. Or get rid of the 1st parental lineage as soon as you get offspring you want and breed them next. Also they should add in negative mutations which is what happens in the wild anyway. Sometimes nature has an off day. Not all offspring from breeding should be 'viable'. So then you have to decide immediately rather than burn through heaps of food if the tiny pixel dino is worth the effort just because it looks like a florescent green lamp but has the stats of a rice paper bag. How about flyers that mutate into non-flyers? Wouldn't that be something. Try to hatch a baby argy and out pops what is essentially a terror bird. Or have the raptor baby be a slightly large micro-raptor.

I think the easiest way to control dino populations is have them age and die off. An unknown number of game days it can live and then it's off to the Elysian Fields - no one knows how old the dino is by the time they find it in the wild anyway. It would be natural and the best in-game way to control pops. It would also force players who have king beasts to work to keep their position all the time rather than get complacent, which is why I think we get a lot of complaints every time someone finds a way to win PvP in a non-standard way - they are too comfortable and don't really have to work hard once they are at the top.

[isu]

Not going to read all these comments, but griffins are OP in no high ping/no lag PvP. But thanks to super servers, this game is laggy, unplayable and with high ping, so they aren't so OP.

[X111]

10 hours ago, Probitas said:

Basic egg laying needs to be boosted, then there is no need for huge dino farms for eggs. As far as breeding goes trying for colorful mutations may be fun but you will never be able to keep them all, so learn to do without. Or get rid of the 1st parental lineage as soon as you get offspring you want and breed them next. Also they should add in negative mutations which is what happens in the wild anyway. Sometimes nature has an off day. Not all offspring from breeding should be 'viable'. So then you have to decide immediately rather than burn through heaps of food if the tiny pixel dino is worth the effort just because it looks like a florescent green lamp but has the stats of a rice paper bag. How about flyers that mutate into non-flyers? Wouldn't that be something. Try to hatch a baby argy and out pops what is essentially a terror bird. Or have the raptor baby be a slightly large micro-raptor.

I think the easiest way to control dino populations is have them age and die off. An unknown number of game days it can live and then it's off to the Elysian Fields - no one knows how old the dino is by the time they find it in the wild anyway. It would be natural and the best in-game way to control pops. It would also force players who have king beasts to work to keep their position all the time rather than get complacent, which is why I think we get a lot of complaints every time someone finds a way to win PvP in a non-standard way - they are too comfortable and don't really have to work hard once they are at the top.

add a life span of 2-3 months for all standard creatures and 5-6 months for all fantasy creatures, halve the raising time. maybe a spoil timer can be added? or have their food decrease over an extended time and feeding will only add points to stam and health? that way breeders would also have to work towards high food levels?

it may need a full revamp but they managed to add in hatching and mutations so cant imagine it would take that long. its like they've plugged a waste outlet and all the cr*p is building up behind it causing the system to bog down and fail to cope with its standard operating procedures AKA server lag and cap

[ForzaProiettile]

7 hours ago, isu said:

Not going to read all these comments, but griffins are OP in no high ping/no lag PvP. But thanks to super servers, this game is laggy, unplayable and with high ping, so they aren't so OP.

They are OP on all servers regardless of lag. They are almost as bad as the pre nerf Pteradon.

[Blueberry757]

Tis childish

[Probitas]

7 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

They are OP on all servers regardless of lag. They are almost as bad as the pre nerf Pteradon.

It won't become true just because you keep saying it. Treat ARK like a FPS and go grab yourself the same weapon being used against you. Or use rocket grenades against them. As far as the ability to shoot from their back goes, they are the only flyer besides the Tap that allows this, but there are a lot of land dinos that let you do this. I think that's fair.

[DaGoodNamesWereTaken]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 7:07 PM, Probitas said:

Flying dinos should be faster than land dinos, otherwise birds would not exist as there is no advantage to flying. And ptero can pick as well. May as well nerf the Wyverns to dust too.

I will state it again, I think you guys just want all dinos to be grounded because you can't win with your Gigas anymore.

How come pteros can't pick micro raptors, they are actually bigger than compys? I've seen hawks eat pigeons - same situation.

Why can't the Griffin pick the same as an Argy, it's actually bigger?

There are a lot of logic problems in the game design that have nothing to do with balance, but they are there. But nothing is out of balance if everyone has the ability to do it. That is so obvious I do not know why people can't figure that out. I truly believe it's stubbornness or refusal to admit it. And some crazy desire to turn this game into an MMO with Rock-Paper-Scissors combat. I think this is why a lot of MMO players don't like FPS games, because there is no advantage whatsoever beyond what you can find and use in the game, just like ARK.

You can act high and mighty all you want. Griffins are broken and I hate nerfing things. It has to be done because as of right now they are way better then everthing else. Griffin vs dragon its not even close to being equal.

 

Logic doesn't come into a game about dinosarus. Its about being balanced and not having something kick the poop out of a whole group of tames where nothing else compares.

 

Who said I cant win with my gigas? I am not even a giga rider, Im all about poisons but griffins outshine everything else in the air. 1 Shots pteras, out flys/damages argy, more mobility and faster then a wyvern and faster/easier to tame then them all.

 

You say we cant adapt? How about you adapt when griffins aren't the king of the sky.

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 12:33 AM, X111 said:

and then when people start using the phoenix I suppose that's going to have to be nerfed as well?

as it was said before people aren't evolving their methods of survival, what did you do when the giga was introduced?

what did you do when you got yourself a giga and the fire arrow was introduced?

its the same story over and over again

wyverns are too powerful, nerf their stam, their normal speed is too much, lets add in a stam consumption per x amount of time in flight. players have 200-300% movement speed on their wyverns, lets remove the ability to upgrade movement because there were already complaints about the ptera issue etc etc well done to all the players who couldn't do what others have and got WC and the Devs to play the game for you

How is evolving our method when there is nothing to evolve? Griffins are better then everything in the sky, strategy doesn't come into play. 1 on 1 vs a wyv the wyv will get picked, person dive bombed in 2 shots and the wyven massacred.

 

Theres literally nothing you can do, I am a realist, I am in the biggest tribe on xbox atm, I have thousands of hours of pvp, I kill 100's of tames and deal with 100's of trolls on griffins.

 

You are obviously one of the people who ride grffins 24/7 because they destroy everything.

 

Griffins need to be nerfed, I don't care what you say or how good you think you are.

[Probitas]

7 hours ago, DaGoodNamesWereTaken said:

You can act high and mighty all you want. Griffins are broken and I hate nerfing things. It has to be done because as of right now they are way better then everthing else. Griffin vs dragon its not even close to being equal.

 

Logic doesn't come into a game about dinosarus. Its about being balanced and not having something kick the poop out of a whole group of tames where nothing else compares.

 

Who said I cant win with my gigas? I am not even a giga rider, Im all about poisons but griffins outshine everything else in the air. 1 Shots pteras, out flys/damages argy, more mobility and faster then a wyvern and faster/easier to tame then them all.

 

You say we cant adapt? How about you adapt when griffins aren't the king of the sky.

How is evolving our method when there is nothing to evolve? Griffins are better then everything in the sky, strategy doesn't come into play. 1 on 1 vs a wyv the wyv will get picked, person dive bombed in 2 shots and the wyven massacred.

 

Theres literally nothing you can do, I am a realist, I am in the biggest tribe on xbox atm, I have thousands of hours of pvp, I kill 100's of tames and deal with 100's of trolls on griffins.

 

You are obviously one of the people who ride grffins 24/7 because they destroy everything.

 

Griffins need to be nerfed, I don't care what you say or how good you think you are.

Speed of a tame is totally level dependent, so that's your first error. Second, most carnivores tame pretty quick on the Rag map with Raw Pork Chops, and the total time required is dependent on the tame settings, so they don't change at all except for what you use and the level. I'd say as well that an Argy def tames faster than a Griffin, I think you might not be paying too much attention. Plus, Wyverns are hatched, not tamed, brainiac.

Also, the Griffin is NOT stronger than a Wyvern unless you are total poop at flying. And that's on you, not the dinos. Wyverns can mow down most stuff in a couple shots, and the Poison Griffin is very dangerous, in the right hands (say a rider wearing a Gas Mask and point blanking at his feet on the ground?). Maybe those hands aren't yours?

The thing I can't see is this - how can you guys complain about diving Griffins when most bases I've seen are encased, and the Griffin cannot attack through walls or ceilings? So they aren't being used for raids. That means you are being picked OUTSIDE the base, where it is open season, and if you are not moving around or watching (admittedly something very hard to do on a console thanks to a crappy controller, but that has no bearing on PC gaming, which is why the nerf, if it does come, should stay on console) you are asking to be killed, but then you could die from anything anyway. Sniper shot to your head, tranqs on your dino (yes, people do do that, it's smart and uses far less ammo as then you kill the dino after it drops and you dispose of the rider, if he's dumb enough to stick around). Heck fire arrows will eat through your crap quick without the Griffin. There are more ways to die than just a Griffin, I think people just like to use them because they are new and handy, and so far no one has found a way to fight back effectively; but I'm sure there is a way, and no one should be asking WC to nerf them so you don't have to figure it out. May as well ask WC to play the game for you too if it's so hard for you.

Now you know why the flyer nerf never should have happened, otherwise you guys would have pteros you could use adequately as a defense against being dive bombed, but they got nerfed because you guys were complaining about them, they were 'too OP' for you to fight back against, but that was never the whole story, just one very small part of a larger problem with server calculations and plantx/turrets that was in part created by players. (breeding issues were WC's fault). I think the bite radius on Gigas should be smaller so it doesn't reach it's back, because that's physically impossible for anything. But that really doesn't matter because anyone that goes toe to toe with one should die anyway. Giga is supreme on the ground against other grounded targets. At least until it rages and goes berserk,

The more I think about this, the more I think the fights you are losing are the ones you start, not the ones where you are defending a base. You will never be able to argue (and be believed) that you are defending a base and Griffins rolled it, because that means you don't know how to build, period.

[X111]

12 hours ago, DaGoodNamesWereTaken said:

 

How is evolving our method when there is nothing to evolve? Griffins are better then everything in the sky, strategy doesn't come into play. 1 on 1 vs a wyv the wyv will get picked, person dive bombed in 2 shots and the wyven massacred.

 

Theres literally nothing you can do, I am a realist, I am in the biggest tribe on xbox atm, I have thousands of hours of pvp, I kill 100's of tames and deal with 100's of trolls on griffins.

 

You are obviously one of the people who ride grffins 24/7 because they destroy everything.

 

Griffins need to be nerfed, I don't care what you say or how good you think you are.

you've completely contradicted yourself! stop trying to cause an argument for a start, this is a discussion, not an argument you think you can end by trying to spout pompous claims which by the way just made you look like the lesser evolution of Darwin's theory.

in one sentence you have stated that "theres literally nothing you can do" followed by "I kill 100's of tames and deal with 100's of trolls on griffins" so please do enlighten the forum as to how you, the best and biggest tribe on XBX coughBScoughcough, have managed to deal with griffins, killed hundreds of trolls on griffins and are still moaning about this?!

I have already given an explanation of how I, and my tribe on our PVP characters lost 5 griffins to a well prepared player on Rag, combinations of plants, creatures and debuffs.

you're just crying for the sake of crying now, how can you claim to be the biggest PVP tribe on XBX but STILL cant deal with pesky griffins?

 

 

[X111]

12 hours ago, DaGoodNamesWereTaken said:

You say we cant adapt? How about you adapt when griffins aren't the king of the sky.

evidently with your mind set, you still think wyverns should be king of the sky then?

how about you go find someone with a tek Tappa + tek riders and see how your wyverns cope then...but I spose you'd want them nerf as well when you cant cope with it