Defense vs offense

[Volcano637]

I have noticed that defenses are still very much helpless are far as offensive power goes. It would be nice to see a significant increase in everything defense wise. 

Now the main reason I said that is the most common form of raiding is that of offline raiding people. It is easily the most used strategy as some people call it. 

I just think if people are going to attack a base with nobody in it to help protect it then the base should be a little stronger to defend itself, by itself.

i can see some people that aren't good at pvp not liking this idea and I don't really blame them. I mean if you are not good the last thing you want is for it to be harder, am I right? Lol

the thing is the people that are good at pvp wouldn't really care if the change was made because they could still be successful. And if someone says they really like a challenge then the was things are right now are not a challenge at all for the elite.

so boosting health on structures, along with boosting damage from auto turrets and xspecies would be a good start. 

There are many things that are unbalanced in this game but I believe the most unbalanced aspect is in fact offense vs defense

[szabiferi]

I think simply just boosting HP and defense only makes attack a bit more time consuming but it wont be harder. 

I think other things needs to be introduced, like
- better dino AI, even some kind of "programming" possibility to have the non ridden dinos actual defense value
- booby traps what are NOT triggered by the tribe deployed it (man, this simple thing would make defenses much better)
- motion sensors triggering various mechanisms (even just turning on-off electricity via motion sensormechanism could allow offline defenders to setup interesting traps. If they could introduce hydraulics and components like command blocks a'la inecraft that would open tons of options

etc etc.

[oScottieHo]

For offline raiding you just need to try and make getting into your base a time consuming process.

We were attacked offline 6/7 weeks ago offline,at the time we had a 4 hour gap of when nobody was online.

We had about 1000 plant x and roughly the same number in turrets.

We managed to get online before they even drained the outside perimeter.

There was 2 rock golems,6 brontos,4 gigas,3 quetzals and god knows how many turtles.

Once we got online,it was all dead in around 15 minutes (they were all pretty much bloody....from draining i guess),then it was on to their server to wipe it,took a few days.

Filling turrets to 1200 is a must nowadays. 

Make your base an absolute nightmare to raid,go over the top with everything,the longer they take to get in the better.

As for smaller tribes,i agree some form of protection should be added,but i wouldnt really know how to go about it.

 

[YUSHOETMI]

Amen to that!

give me time and I can build you a base that's unraidable by multiple tribes aslong as you have people online. Take those people offline and it will fall just like every other base.  Too many people realise this and will only offline raid, it's the worst tactic in the game and one reserved only for those so poor at the game they make it no longer PvP and PvB. 

We could do with some other types of turrets:

remove the ability to attack rockets from the auto turret and add one that ONLY attacks rockets or projectiles, a flak turret or something. Be harder to drain the bullets from auto turrets then. 

A flamthrower turret for close quarters.

some sort of tranq turret to take down flyers or other dinos. 

Just a few suggestions. 

[Rub0]

The draining power is too strong compared to the effort of farming thousands of bullets imo. I agree with the multiple layers with thousands of plant X and turrets. If your base is a pain in the ass to raid it will most likely be raided the last of your server and it will take enough time to you to get online

[Brayn]

First, let me say I think OP is a troll and in general toxic to the forum community.  That being said, I agree base defense has not received the TLC it needs.

The newest form of base defense, the force field generator, even fails at its purpose.  It is incredibly costly to keep on 24/7, has a relatively small area of effect and friendly bullets/turrets don't shoot out of the bubble.  The last point makes them more of a liability as it creates blind spots. They are, thankfully, incredibly durable.  A rocket does 500 damage to the bubble and the bubble has 250k HP.

To improve defenses, they will need to do the following to existing defenses:

- bear traps only trigger on enemies

- IEDs and Narc Traps have better hidden wires and much larger AoE

- Smarter Purlovia that automatically re-burrow back where they were originally burrowed.

- Purlovia having a separate and distinct tame limit of, say, 20?

- Thylacoleo's NOT lose stamina when clinging to walls

- Auto turrets target riders at lower angles. Currently the only time they shoot the rider is when they are shooting almost straight down at the rider/dino

Some new suggestions would be

- having Gigantopithecus being able to man chaingun and rocket turrets

-  progressive HP buff on structures, i.e., destroying 1 structure buffs all other structures within a certain radius by 5%, cumulative with 6-12 hour reset cooldown.  This would lead to strategic and surgical attacks with real consequences.

- Server-Wide notifications when a dino is transferred in, the same as login notifications.  "X Player has transferred in a dino into this ARK"

- Having a tethering setting on dinos.  Set dino to Aggresive and Return.  This would allow pteras, vultures, dimorphs to be used as an alternative to turrets.

- Better arthropleura, chalico, golem etc. turret mode tracking.

- Pop-up spike traps for large dino defense.  Think Braveheart anti-cavalry spikes.

[szabiferi]

@Brayn Your first sentence was REALLY not needed here, I almost stopped reading your post what was otherwise really great. 

I especially liked the manned turrets with gigantopithecus - immediately the servitors of Warhammer 40K came into my mind  

[YUSHOETMI]

25 minutes ago, Brayn said:

First, let me say I think OP is a troll and in general toxic to the forum community.  

As are comments like that.

[TangoOsmo]

All we need is ORP. Disable pvp complitely for 4-6h a night (for example 4 - 10 am local tame) and add some small buffs when no allied players haven't been in rendering distance. For example turrets should gain 2-3x dmg and it could increase over time.

And to @oScottieHo , must have been bad raiders if they didn't get in within 4 hours.

 

[BobRoss]

i agree that defense is way to weak compared to offense. 

some simple suggestions that are easy to implement:

-structures get more health maybe even armor when snapped together. the more sturctures snapped together the more HP+armor you get. this ofcourse caps at a certain number.

-building tier between metal and TEK. reinforced steel maybe. with very strong defense to explosions but weak against tek?

-different type of auto turrets with different qualituies, for example ramshacke/journeyman etc auto turrets. with different types i mean fast shooting low damage or slower shooting higher damage. maybe even rocket turrets or grenade flinging turrets.

-different types of bullets. like for example penetrator rounds that ignore a % of armor. or incindiary rounds that set targets aflame and do damage over time, % of max health per second

-spiked foundations that damage enemies of they walk over them. (more early game)

 

[TangoOsmo]

Just now, BobRoss said:

i agree that defense is way to weak compared to offense. 

some simple suggestions that are easy to implement:

-structures get more health maybe even armor when snapped together. the more sturctures snapped together the more HP+armor you get. this ofcourse caps at a certain number.

-building tier between metal and TEK. reinforced steel maybe. with very strong defense to explosions but weak against tek?

-different type of auto turrets with different qualituies, for example ramshacke/journeyman etc auto turrets. with different types i mean fast shooting low damage or slower shooting higher damage. maybe even rocket turrets or grenade flinging turrets.

-different types of bullets. like for example penetrator rounds that ignore a % of armor. or incindiary rounds that set targets aflame and do damage over time, % of max health per second

-spiked foundations that damage enemies of they walk over them. (more early game)

 

Problem with adding more overall defense is that bases become unraidable if there's anyone online. Imo pvp is in ok balance when raids happen online, we just need to buff the offline side.

[BobRoss]

3 minutes ago, TangoOsmo said:

Problem with adding more overall defense is that bases become unraidable if there's anyone online. Imo pvp is in ok balance when raids happen online, we just need to buff the offline side.

raiding a well defended base with 100x times more resources invested than you invest in offense should be impossible. PVP imo should be more in the field, when out farming or taming. PVP right now is laughable.

[Kittt]

7 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

raiding a well defended base with 100x times more resources invested than you invest in offense should be impossible. PVP imo should be more in the field, when out farming or taming. PVP right now is laughable.

Raiding is pretty much who has more dinos/resources. 

[YUSHOETMI]

15 minutes ago, TangoOsmo said:

must have been bad raiders if they didn't get in within 4 hours.

 

We had 5 tribes try to raid us for 7-8 hours once, for the most part of that nobody was online, when we did come online we just sat around the campfire mocking them for about 2 hours before actually doing any defending.

[TangoOsmo]

8 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

raiding a well defended base with 100x times more resources invested than you invest in offense should be impossible. PVP imo should be more in the field, when out farming or taming. PVP right now is laughable.

This is Exactly what it should NOT be! PvP is not supposed to be war against grinding. In online raid let's say 3:1  (3x more attackers than defenders) is a fair fight. You should not have unraidable castles or game turns into complitely pve like it was before transfers.

PvP cannot be too expensive or nobody wants to raid. Problem is now offline raid and there's no base that would stand 2-4h of offline assault.

6 minutes ago, Kittt said:

Raiding is pretty much who has more dinos/resources. 

Wrong, PvP is now, who can be awake longest.

[TangoOsmo]

7 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

We had 5 tribes try to raid us for 7-8 hours once, for the most part of that nobody was online, when we did come online we just sat around the campfire mocking them for about 2 hours before actually doing any defending.

Bad raiders once more? One carbo can tank 10k bullets, 100 carbos = 1 million bullets, i bet you had less than one million bullets and i bet that enemy had 100 carbos.

[oScottieHo]

30 minutes ago, TangoOsmo said:

All we need is ORP. Disable pvp complitely for 4-6h a night (for example 4 - 10 am local tame) and add some small buffs when no allied players haven't been in rendering distance. For example turrets should gain 2-3x dmg and it could increase over time.

And to @oScottieHo , must have been bad raiders if they didn't get in within 4 hours.

 

54 people and a hell of alot of tames.

Like i said 1000 plant x,with id say at least 1000 turrets and they are all full. 

Nothing to do with bad raiding. You have to drain the bullets and get rid of the plants. Another hour or so and they would of been in.

But i guess not everyones as good as you eh

[oScottieHo]

12 minutes ago, TangoOsmo said:

Bad raiders once more? One carbo can tank 10k bullets, 100 carbos = 1 million bullets, i bet you had less than one million bullets and i bet that enemy had 100 carbos.

Completely wrong.

A maxed out carbo with 9.2k health base at hatch,fully leveled can tank around 8k to 8.5k woth a 55.4 armour saddle,that being said thats if every bullet hits the shell to reduce the incoming damage.

Now thats turrets ONLY,lets say theres around 50 plant x shooting you also,thats a drastic amount of bullets being saved.

 

[TangoOsmo]

Sounds nice, never seen a base with 1k turrets though , i think that Chem B base had less than 250 turrets / one side of base (and it was duped). But yeh, if people think offline raiding is the way to go, so be it. I've never failed in offline raid and never been online raided.

[TangoOsmo]

1 minute ago, oScottieHo said:

Completely wrong.

A maxed out carbo with 9.2k health base at hatch,fully leveled can tank around 8k to 8.5k woth a 55.4 armour saddle.

Now thats turrets ONLY,lets say theres around 50 plant x shooting you also,thats a drastic amount of bullets being saved.

 

Carbo takes 3 dmg from bullet, your Super carbo can have + 40k hp, do the math, you don't tank plants...

[BobRoss]

13 minutes ago, TangoOsmo said:

This is Exactly what it should NOT be! PvP is not supposed to be war against grinding. In online raid let's say 3:1  (3x more attackers than defenders) is a fair fight. You should not have unraidable castles or game turns into complitely pve like it was before transfers.

PvP cannot be too expensive or nobody wants to raid. Problem is now offline raid and there's no base that would stand 2-4h of offline assault.

Wrong, PvP is now, who can be awake longest.

it should be expensive lol. destroying a base that costs 100x more than your attack does should not be possible. a raid should be to exploit a weak spot in the defense or when you do want to wipe you should prepare longer than 1 day lol. PVP should be out in the open, real player versus player actions.  killing people out farming, sabotaging cave runs etc etc.

[TangoOsmo]

Just now, BobRoss said:

it should be expensive lol. destroying a base that costs 100x more than your attack does should not be possible. a raid should be to exploit a weak spot in the defense or when you do want to wipe you should prepare longer than 1 day lol. PVP should be out in the open, real player versus player actions.  killing people out farming, sabotaging cave runs etc etc.

This is just stupid, i don't want to grind a year to raid a base that was made in year... You'll understand it one day. In online raid it's relatively easy to defend the base + make it cost to the enemy.

[oScottieHo]

5 minutes ago, TangoOsmo said:

Carbo takes 3 dmg from bullet, your Super carbo can have + 40k hp, do the math, you don't tank plants...

Takes 4.479 with a 55.4 armour saddle,you do the math know all.

So what do you do when theres 1000 plant x that can shoot 2 foundations out the range off turrets? You cant chomp the plants because the turrets will let rip.

Stand there using cannons which proves my point of time consuming.

[BobRoss]

2 minutes ago, TangoOsmo said:

This is just stupid, i don't want to grind a year to raid a base that was made in year... You'll understand it one day. In online raid it's relatively easy to defend the base + make it cost to the enemy.

yeah but thats not the case now is it? people dont raid online these days.

and why would that be stupid? why should it take an enemy longer to build then it takes you to destroy exactly the same thing?

[YUSHOETMI]

7 minutes ago, TangoOsmo said:

Sounds nice, never seen a base with 1k turrets though , i think that Chem B base had less than 250 turrets / one side of base (and it was duped). But yeh, if people think offline raiding is the way to go, so be it. I've never failed in offline raid and never been online raided.

How can offline raiding be the way to go tho? It requires little to no skill, its cowardice personified and its just generally a scrub tactic.  Too scared to face a human opposition? Wait till they all log off and then all you have to do is hope you can drain the turrets before they log on again, I've seen tribes offline raid for hours, as soon as one person from that tribe logs back on they retreat with their tales between their legs.  Where is the skill or justification in that?

IMO if you offline raid your'e simply a coward.