Notice All Those For The Flyer Nerf Have Barely Hundreds Hours Logged?

[iAmE]

6 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

It is also going to slow down the production of rockets and c4 which is awesome. People need to work a little harder to destroy something that took a lot longer to build than it did to destroy.

i love the fact it will take people weeks to get all the explosives to raid a base

Well, no, it won't. The major cost in raiding a base has never been explosives. Not only are explosives natively 4-6 times more effective then defensive materials (You have to defend 4-6x more area then the offense needs to go through), but the major cost of any offense is always in Dinos. Namely Turtles, Brontos and Paracers. Dinos grow at an exponential rate, largely, passively. Comparatively, defensive materials and mechanisms are largely relegated to Auto Turrets and Plant Species, which are, for the most part, a linear gain, as opposed to exponential. 

It's the entire reason why Ark PvP is so wipe and Alpha centric. Most Alpha tribes understand how easy it is to break into bases, thus rely on a hyperactive offense (IE raiding stone bases and noobs) to keep their dominance, as bases that take months, if not years, to make, can easily be brought down in a matter of hours with materials it takes mere weeks, if not days to farm. 

 

7 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Yeah, but those barrel pteras and box quetzes cant duck you over either. 

Those were never actually a problem in PvP to begin with. Most of us figured out how to counter Quetzals and Ptera's a couple months back when we started tossing around 3k damage metal arrows at flyers and watching them basically implode. 

[Volcano637]

1 minute ago, JoeBob1024 said:

Unless they already have those explosives, or live near the material nodes... Then you'll be regretting the fact that it takes so long to repair your base. lol

It doesn't take that long to repair a Base. Even on no tame.

[Volcano637]

1 minute ago, iAmE said:

Well, no, it won't. The major cost in raiding a base has never been explosives. Not only are explosives natively 4-6 times more effective then defensive materials (You have to defend 4-6x more area then the offense needs to go through), but the major cost of any offense is always in Dinos. Namely Turtles, Brontos and Paracers. Dinos grow at an exponential rate, largely, passively. Comparatively, defensive materials and mechanisms are largely relegated to Auto Turrets and Plant Species, which are, for the most part, a linear gain, as opposed to exponential. 

It's the entire reason why Ark PvP is so wipe and Alpha centric. Most Alpha tribes understand how easy it is to break into bases, thus rely on a hyperactive offense (IE raiding stone bases and noobs) to keep their dominance, as bases that take months, if not years, to make, can easily be brought down in a matter of hours materials it takes mere weeks, if not days to farm. 

 

Those were never actually a problem in PvP to begin with. Most of us figured out how to counter Quetzals and Ptera's a couple months back when we started tossing around 3k damage metal arrows at flyers and watching them basically implode. 

Once again it goes back to the alphas. They pretty much ruined the game, not the devs. 

[Currahee]

3 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Those were never actually a problem in PvP to begin with. Most of us figured out how to counter Quetzals and Ptera's a couple months back when we started tossing around 3k damage metal arrows at flyers and watching them basically implode. 

3k damage from a metal arrow? What kind of composite bow is that shooting from if you mind me asking?

[JoeBob1024]

12 minutes ago, ArkRage said:

I've only been plating since its release on ps4, but ask me the same question in a years time and my answer would still be the same.  If the game is "ruined" for people because of a simple nerf, then look for another game is the only advice I can give as there's more to the game than how fast a bird can fly. 

While I agree that the nerf isn't world ending, I think you misunderstand why people find the flyer nerf so devastating and "game ruining".  For one, on a PvP server, aerial combat is the only dino-mounted combat that requires any skills.  Land based dinos just walk towards each other and mash the trigger/attack button until the one with worse stats or fewer allies dies.  It's not really a skill game with land dinos.  I would love for it to become one, with more complex ground combat, but as it stands...yuck.  I have to agree with a previous poster, the devs seem to have looked at the game and said "noone uses land dinos because they suck... lets make fliers suck too so that people have more choices!"  I think that there's a pretty obvious alternative that they missed out on here. 

I agree that flyers needed a PvP nerf, but it should have been less radical and it should have been accompanied by buffing the utility/combat of land dinos. Meeting in the middle would have been much better.  I also think that the devs inadvertently destroyed the non-PvP usefulness of flyers which was unnecessary.  You don't like quetzals as battle mounts? Why not make them squishier and give them a weaker melee attack? Why nerf their stam and speed?  It feels to me like they said "This nerf works for pteras right? Let's just apply it to all flyers, it'll be ok!"   

[JoeBob1024]

2 minutes ago, Currahee said:

3k damage from a metal arrow? What kind of composite bow is that shooting from if you mind me asking?

I hit for about that much when using the better of my 2 MC blueprints.  The ascendant we found (no bp) hits even harder.

[iAmE]

1 minute ago, Currahee said:

3k damage from a metal arrow? What kind of composite bow is that shooting from if you mind me asking?

250-500%. BPs were nerfed recently, and you can still get 250+% Compound bows.

Metal Arrows largely ignore armor, and deal 1.5x damage to Flyers. Quetzals/Ptera's take 300% damage from a headshot. A 250% Compound Bow shooting a Metal Arrow will do 2250 damage, if you land a headshot (Really easy to do on Quetzals, depending on their defensive platform), and double that for a 500% compound bow. It's also fairly easy to headshot Ptera's trying to (Or have already) picked you. Just grapple yourself to the ground and let them try to pick you, dome them as they come in, good chance of a one shot.

1 minute ago, Volcano637 said:

Once again it goes back to the alphas. They pretty much ruined the game, not the devs. 

No, the devs created a situation/meta in which Alpha's can't feasibly defend their gains, thus have no choice but to relentlessly wipe any opposition. It's problematic. There's a severe imbalance in the PvP meta that is forcing Alpha tribes to act out the way they do. It is, technically, their fault, as they are the ones that want to be Alpha, but leveling the blame for the meta being what it is against the players instead of the game is a bit misguided. 

[JoeBob1024]

8 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

It doesn't take that long to repair a Base. Even on no tame.

When Isay repair, I'm not talking about walls.  I'm talking about bullets bro. FIllin' up them turrets is gunna take years after the next time you get drained by a carb army.

[Volcano637]

1 minute ago, iAmE said:

250-500%. BPs were nerfed recently, and you can still get 250+% Compound bows.

Metal Arrows largely ignore armor, and deal 1.5x damage to Flyers. Quetzals/Ptera's take 300% damage from a headshot. A 250% Compound Bow shooting a Metal Arrow will do 2250 damage, if you land a headshot (Really easy to do on Quetzals, depending on their defensive platform), and double that for a 500% compound bow. It's also fairly easy to headshot Ptera's trying to (Or have already) picked you. Just grapple yourself to the ground and let them try to pick you, dome them as they come in, good chance of a one shot.

No, the devs created a situation/meta in which Alpha's can't feasibly defend their gains, thus have no choice but to relentlessly wipe any opposition. It's problematic. There's a severe imbalance in the PvP meta that is forcing Alpha tribes to act out the way they do. It is, technically, their fault, as they are the ones that want to be Alpha, but leveling the blame for the meta being what it is against the players instead of the game is a bit misguided. 

And that's fine. I do put some blame on the devs as well. 

The thing is the alphas don't have to do that. They want to do it. They can't hide behind the fact that there might be a threat because even if there wasn't they would still want to do it.

[Volcano637]

2 minutes ago, JoeBob1024 said:

When Isay repair, I'm not talking about walls.  I'm talking about bullets bro. FIllin' up them turrets is gunna take years after the next time you get drained by a carb army.

Very true. That's why I went to no tame.

the bottom line with that is that it is way too easy to raid. Auto turrets doing 5x damage to everything and 5x health on structures would be a good addition to the game.

like you said more time is spent building defenses so it should take a lot more time to be able to raid something that took longer to build 

[JoeBob1024]

5 minutes ago, iAmE said:

No, the devs created a situation/meta in which Alpha's can't feasibly defend their gains, thus have no choice but to relentlessly wipe any opposition. It's problematic. There's a severe imbalance in the PvP meta that is forcing Alpha tribes to act out the way they do. It is, technically, their fault, as they are the ones that want to be Alpha, but leveling the blame for the meta being what it is against the players instead of the game is a bit misguided. 

I gotta disagree.  Alpha tribes were wiping everything that moved long before the devs made bases so indefensible.  Does nobody else remember what it was like pre-gigas or the time before explosives were commonly available?  Here's a hint: the alpha tribe still killed everyone that they could lol.

[Kevink888]

30 minutes ago, ArkRage said:

I've only been plating since its release on ps4, but ask me the same question in a years time and my answer would still be the same.  If the game is "ruined" for people because of a simple nerf, then look for another game is the only advice I can give as there's more to the game than how fast a bird can fly. 

it's not as simple as that mate, they didn't just remove the speed.

 

24 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Jesus those stats are inflated. 

yes they are but the boss is also alot harder, my rexes all died except for the 2 we were riding (120k hp 1300% damage), my tribe mate says these were stats from a long time ago they used to be like this, according to him that is.

 

23 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

It is also going to slow down the production of rockets and c4 which is awesome. People need to work a little harder to destroy something that took a lot longer to build than it did to destroy.

i love the fact it will take people weeks to get all the explosives to raid a base

in the end they spend about the same time though before the base might take 10 hours now it's 40 hours and before the c4 was 2 hours and now is 8 hours, so this kind of makes no sense.

[MrDynamicMan]

3 minutes ago, Kevink888 said:

 

yes they are but the boss is also alot harder, my rexes all died except for the 2 we were riding (120k hp 1300% damage), my tribe mate says these were stats from a long time ago they used to be like this, according to him that is.

They where. In fact, the need from those stats down to current levels was the first nerf uproar. Having stats like that basically breaks the game. I'm guessing your default mount is an argie or ptera? 

[IncubusMaverick]

They are pissing all over the thousands of hours of breeding I have done. So thats that.

[Kevink888]

4 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

They where. In fact, the need from those stats down to current levels was the first nerf uproar. Having stats like that basically breaks the game. I'm guessing your default mount is an argie or ptera? 

Nope I only flew quetzals and yes those stats are kind of OP but so are the bosses, I guess if everything is toned down it'd be fine.

Also these rexes were bred by the admin so they have almost max rolls as babys and i'm not sure how legit they did this. but I basicly quit that server (well kinda) we want to do some bosses there but thats it.

I could check sometime but I think those rexes have like 2500 mutations or something, unless that's normal then ok but seems kind of odd to me.

[iAmE]

5 minutes ago, Kevink888 said:

Nope I only flew quetzals and yes those stats are kind of OP but so are the bosses, I guess if everything is toned down it'd be fine.

Also these rexes were bred by the admin so they have almost max rolls as babys and i'm not sure how legit they did this. but I basicly quit that server (well kinda) we want to do some bosses there but thats it.

I could check sometime but I think those rexes have like 2500 mutations or something, unless that's normal then ok but seems kind of odd to me.

It is normal. My Ptera line has 109k mutations out of 20 on both sides. 

14 minutes ago, JoeBob1024 said:

I gotta disagree.  Alpha tribes were wiping everything that moved long before the devs made bases so indefensible.  Does nobody else remember what it was like pre-gigas or the time before explosives were commonly available?  Here's a hint: the alpha tribe still killed everyone that they could lol.

Not my experience. In my experience, bases have almost never been defensible. The sole exception being Caves, and most Alpha's wouldn't mess with a well developed tribe in a cave, too expensive. 

[pwellsua5645]

On 4/3/2017 at 3:58 PM, theronin said:

I'm curious how you are defending on your bronto as it lumbers along the mountains with a handful of Chinese attacking you on official PVP?  Honest question.

I gave up on official a looooooong time ago. I only play unofficial with increased gathering/harvesting/taming. It's a PVP server with a cool admin. No transfers allowed. No threat of Chinese invasions. Sorry to hear Official PVP is still the poops. If you've never tried increased rates, I highly recommend. I'm never going back to the snail crawl of normal

[Charlie12345]

On 4/3/2017 at 5:46 PM, theronin said:

Cool.  That makes 3 out of ....

4 actually.. I have 2000+ hours across PC, xbox and PS4 and I am for the flyer nerf.  Game in-balance is the reason a number of friends have left ark. 

[Jrminot]

I'm pretty happy with the current state of flyers and I've got about 1200 hours logged. 

The flyers feel much more natural now (to me) and I'm enjoying watching players on my server switch over to actually dusting off some of the land dinos.

 

People definitely need to give their input as that is what will shape the game going forward.

That said, people also need to not become too attached to how things are as they WILL change. I suspect content additions will start slowing down soon which means that there are going to be more balancing and dino repasses coming up. Change is inevitable and the game may change quite drastically over the course of this year. People are not currently playing ARK Survival as it will ultimately be.

The rational response to the flyer nerf would have been to calmly voice your disapproval at the changes and then patiently wait for things to be adjusted, knowing that they almost certainly would be.

 

[Craigjw]

On 03/04/2017 at 5:49 PM, GravitronX said:

True very true but as I have said we will all adapt for that is where we will gain the most enjoyment out of out time our sense of accomplishment 

The flyer nerf just took all sense of accomplishment I had in the game, threw it on the ground and shat on it......

[SyberLink]

they shouldn't patch the stam :'(

[thedogowl]

1.5k logged, still enjoying Ark much more post nerf. Crack on tho

[CobraD]

On 4/3/2017 at 10:23 AM, Icense said:

 

Has the advantage of being able to fly. If you do not like it, NOW you can use a rhino, bronto or whatever you want.

But if someone wanted to use those, what stopped them from using them before the nerf.

Just because the flyers were nerfed doesn't mean people are going to suddenly use different Dinos, they'll either keep using the ones they always did or if they do decide to use something different they're going find the most effective "catch all" dino and just use that.

 

personally I'm okay with the flyer nerf but only because our base is close to a mountain and no one goes there anymore meaning more metal for me. If anything it made our tribe more powerful.

So thanks.

[Kurbbie]

On 4/3/2017 at 11:32 AM, theronin said:

I've begun to clearly notice that mostly everyone that either does not mind the flyer nerf or is totally for it have barely a few hundred hours logged in game.  I'm thinking of an unofficial I play one where this one guy (who I always felt was more pve / unofficial oriented) was particularly for the flyer nerf.  To make my point, I pushed a little PVP psychological warfare on him to get to start grinding more metal.  Sure enough, I see this guy with a bary and ptera in tow (lol) hacking away at metal nodes.  I warned him that with the flyer nerf, he's got a long way to haul all that metal.  Not several minutes later, global is flooded by complaints from this guy about losing all his metal to a theriz that ambushed him and how the nerf sucked ... not a dozen hours after having to listen to how "pteras are op" and "land dinos are more important"  LOL.  He's got 200 some hours logged in game.  Check profiles of people that seem to be oddly for this nerf - I'd bet it's going to be less than 500.

Some guy over at Steam forums really nailed it - Ark is a grindy game.  We all know that.  But half the game isn't about powering through the grind.  It's about finding clever ways (thats not cheating) around the grind.  Flyers made the game *bearably grindy* ... think about that devs.  You took away our ability to manage to still take a crap now and then while still playing your game - bearably grindy.  If your brilliant </sarcasm> patch is any indication of where you want to take your game, you better provide portable porta potties we can use cos it's now stupid grindy.  Or as that steam member more eloquently put it, your patch has made very apparent the unbalanced grindy nature of this game.  And it would be far more wiser to implement a similar offsetting buff to such a devastating nerf.  Otherwise by one-siding it so drastically, where the eff is the balance in that???

You assume from one isolated incident. Being a god cause you have a 15 minute tame, shouldnt be in the game. The problem is the game is to easy with dinos. No tame is where the game truely shines

[Kurbbie]

On 4/5/2017 at 11:17 AM, iAmE said:

Well, no, it won't. The major cost in raiding a base has never been explosives. Not only are explosives natively 4-6 times more effective then defensive materials (You have to defend 4-6x more area then the offense needs to go through), but the major cost of any offense is always in Dinos. Namely Turtles, Brontos and Paracers. Dinos grow at an exponential rate, largely, passively. Comparatively, defensive materials and mechanisms are largely relegated to Auto Turrets and Plant Species, which are, for the most part, a linear gain, as opposed to exponential. 

It's the entire reason why Ark PvP is so wipe and Alpha centric. Most Alpha tribes understand how easy it is to break into bases, thus rely on a hyperactive offense (IE raiding stone bases and noobs) to keep their dominance, as bases that take months, if not years, to make, can easily be brought down in a matter of hours with materials it takes mere weeks, if not days to farm. 

 

Those were never actually a problem in PvP to begin with. Most of us figured out how to counter Quetzals and Ptera's a couple months back when we started tossing around 3k damage metal arrows at flyers and watching them basically implode. 

Box quetz are a problem. Actually illegal because you cant damage them