ASA breeding and mutation stacking?

[ancojo]

After watching ConCons video on YT titled "How to Stack or Move Mutations | Breeding Mutations Explained Ingame ► Ark Survival Ascended" it got me thinking if breeding low level dinos to stack mutation points is less beneficial stat wise than doing it on high level dinos, I'm quite new to breeding but hear me out.

I'll start by mentioning that out of the 6 mutation points he gets for the 3 mutations, 3 go into the stat the other 3 go into colours.

Ok when he starts by mutating the low lowels he gets roughly 11.6 extra added to the stat which in this case is melee, the dino starts with a melee of 132.5 then he gets 3 mutations and the melee goes from 132.5 >144.1 >155.6 >167.2 which = a total of 34.7 added to melee for the 3 mutations, 34.7/3 = 11.6 per mutation. (I hope you all follow so far?)

Now these are the important parts, when he then breeds the low level to the high level to pass those 3 stacked mutations on, the high level goes from 399.1 to 433.8 melee which is a difference of 34.7, the exact same amount as what the low levels got. This means passing those stacked mutations only gives the added extra to melee that the low level acrued over 3 mutations.

Now the main point I'm trying to make, what if you bred 2 high level dinos and the added amount per mutation was higher than the low levels 11.6 due to them being higher level obviously! So lets say two 150 bred dinos provided *34.9 added per mutation instead of 11.6 for the low level ones he used, would this not make stacking the higher level ones more beneficial due to the higher amount being added per mutation and knowing that when the mutation stack is passed on you are getting a higher number per point? With the 3 mutations he got this would total 104.7 extra to melee (34.9x3) not the 34.7 in total for the low level (Hope I haven't lost anyone yet?)

So in theory if you got 20 mutations points on one parental side stacked on the low level you would get an extra 232 added to melee (11.6 x 20) as we know from the video each mutation adds 11.6 but the high level one would get 698 added (34.9x20) after 20 mutations which is a big difference!

*Btw for fun the low level dino started with melee of 132.5, 11.6 = roughly 8.75% of 132.5, so if we use this % for the high level dino 8.75% of 399.1 is 34.9, this is a big jump per mutation point.

The video done by ConCon shows that you can mutation point stack to pass on but realy what you are also stacking is the amount being added to the stat per mutation, now I know that people like low level dinos to breed as they are cheaper to clone and for levelling reasons so the answer to the above scenario would be, if possible, to breed high levels to get a good mutation point amount which in thise case would of been 34.9 then pass that onto the low level one if possible to do so?

What the video proves to me atleast is that the amount being added per mutation point is what passes on when you want to add those stacks to your final dino, so if your final dino you want to breed the 20 stacked mutation points into has 500 melee to start with it would gain either an extra 232 to melee = 732 melee if you used low level dinos stacked mutation points or 698 if you used the high level dinos stacked mutation points = 1198 melee! (I hope that makes sense)

Finally if all the above is true then what people should do is breed lots of different levels of dinos together to see which pair get the highest mutation point amount added to the stat you want as they all might be vastly different and then use that dino to pass the amount onto your low level.

Please dont forget this is based on ConCons video in which he breeds wolves, other dinos will obviously have different ammounts!

Again I'm new to this so if anyone wants to add thoughts or explain or point to faults then please do so but please explain why in a noob way due to me only just getting into this breeding game

**I typed all this out clicked submit and it deleted everything so I had to redo it all again!
 

 

[ancojo]

I know its a bit of a ramble and I missed parts out but I was so annoyed I had to redo it all, basically low level dinos might be less beneficial stat wise per mutation point when mutation point stacking compared to high level dinos so its maybe best to breed high levels to find the best stat amount per point first then pass this onto the low levels to do mutation stacking!

It makes sense to me lol 🙃

I cant test it as I'm on XBOX! (I wont go there lol)

Edited November 19, 2023 by ancojo

[Dreadcthulhu]

 

17 hours ago, ancojo said:

I'll start by mentioning that out of the 6 mutation points he gets for the 3 mutations, 3 go into the stat the other 3 go into colours.

First off, you have a bit of a misunderstanding of how mutations work.  A mutation does three things to a baby game - it raises the level of the baby's mutation stat by two levels (this is new for ASA, in ASE it raised a base stat level by two), changes a random color region, and ticks the mutation counter up by one (either on pat or mat side, depending on what tame triggered the mutation).  In that video he showed 3 mutations on the melee stat, which is why the melee stat showed 6 mutation levels, there were 3 color changes, and 3 mutations on the counter in the ancestry. 

Secondly, mutation levels act like base levels, in that they add fixed amounts to a stat.  They are not percentages of the base stat.  It looks like they have set dire wolves to gain 5.3 percentile points per mutation level.  Thus since each mutation bumps the mutation stat count by 2, you get 11.6 percentile points added.  Starting with higher level creatures will not change how much melee a mutation adds.  

Interestingly, it would appear that they have set mutation melee levels for wolves to be slightly higher than the base levels, which add 5%, though that could be an artifact of how the melee stat gets a bonus based on taming effectiveness (with bred tames getting that bonus as if they had 100 % TE), someone else will have to tease that out.  The mutation health levels do seem to be adding the same amount of health as base levels.  

Edit - I noticed a minor math error I made - instead of 5.3 percentile points per melee level it should be 5.8 percentile points.  

Edited November 19, 2023 by Dreadcthulhu

[Fatbatmanplays]

Level of the Dino, or more importantly, the melee of the Dino, has no effect on the amount of melee you get per mutation. If you get 11.6 melee per mutation for a level 1 you’re going to get 11.6 melee per mutation for any level. If you have a dino with a higher melee you’re still going to get the same thing because it goes by point total. Imprinting baby Dino’s adds a percentage based boost based off of the stats. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking about.

[ancojo]

Thanks for the replies you two as you have answered what I suppose is the main question, no matter the level of the dino the stat amount given per mutation is always the same. My whole theory was based on not knowing if this was the case or not due to him using a level 1 dino and my thinking was that maybe a high level might produce more of a boost per stat mutation so thanks for clarifying that this is actually what does happen.

I'll just add and please do NOT take this the wrong way, I can only take your words that this is the case as I haven't yet seen a video of both low levels and high levels being mutation bred showing the same amount added per stat but I do believe what you are both saying and appreciate very much as it proves that low level mutation breeding is the way to go.

Now I just have to work out why people breed dinos from level 5 to 1 before going for mutation stacks? I'm assuming its to allow more levels due to there being a max level limit?

Many thanks

ancojo

[Fatbatmanplays]

1 hour ago, ancojo said:

Thanks for the replies you two as you have answered what I suppose is the main question, no matter the level of the dino the stat amount given per mutation is always the same. My whole theory was based on not knowing if this was the case or not due to him using a level 1 dino and my thinking was that maybe a high level might produce more of a boost per stat mutation so thanks for clarifying that this is actually what does happen.

I'll just add and please do NOT take this the wrong way, I can only take your words that this is the case as I haven't yet seen a video of both low levels and high levels being mutation bred showing the same amount added per stat but I do believe what you are both saying and appreciate very much as it proves that low level mutation breeding is the way to go.

Now I just have to work out why people breed dinos from level 5 to 1 before going for mutation stacks? I'm assuming its to allow more levels due to there being a max level limit?

Many thanks

ancojo

Think of it like this. Any Dino’s level is based off the total amount of points added from all of the stats. If a Dino is level 150 pretame that means all of their stat points add up to 150. With level maxed out at 450, getting undesired stats like oxygen or food to their lowest possible points enables you to get more points on a desired stat like melee.

[GrumpyBear]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:20 AM, ancojo said:

Now I just have to work out why people breed dinos from level 5 to 1 before going for mutation stacks? I'm assuming its to allow more levels due to there being a max level limit?

 

You are correct, a level 5 has 4 points that cut down on space for important stats.   There's also one other reason for doing this early on before we get incubators.   When breeding for mutations, if you got a 100 points in melee and 0 points in every other stat on that stud, then breed to females all w/ 0 points in every stat - you will be able to spot mutated babies with just a look at their over all level upon birth.

 

You are mostly only going to see babies that will birth with levels { 1 , 3 , 101 , 103} ,  the full actual set of possibilities will be {1 , 3 , 5 , 7 , 101 , 103 , 105 , 107}

When you see 100 babies come out with various levels, you will know right away you can kill off every level {1 , 3 , 5 , 7 , 101}.   

You will only have to look at the babies that birth at {103 , 105 , 107}.   That saves a load of time when hatching over 200 eggs at a time.

[ancojo]

Many thanks for the explanations, its making more sense the more I read as sometimes videos dont explain things as in depth like you all have kindly done and I appreciate it very much.

Thanks again

ancojo